Kinect Only Costs $56 to Make

Treblaine

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kristiankramer said:
So the 93 dollars go to:
* packaging costs
* shipping costs
* sales costs (percentage that goes to the stores that sell the Kinect)
* development costs
* marketing costs (and let's not pretend that Microsoft is the only company spending hundreds of millions of dollars on marketing)
* shareholders
* ...

So, sure they make a profit, but that's what they're in the business game for. And of course they know what a loss leader is. Thing is, it doesn't need to be a loss leader. It's selling like crazy already. *rolls eyes*

And no, I do not have a Kinect. May buy one somewhere next year or so.
Just because there are costs other than the "$56 cost-to-make" that doesn't mean ALL then $93 remaining goes to the in-between costs.

Development cost, marketing cost, licensing costs are NOT PER UNIT! Don't act like they are, those debts have to be held away separately for consideration AFTER returns.

Packaging, shipping are insignificant to a large and efficient manufacturing process due to the economy of scale. Also a lot of shipping/storage costs can be picked up by the retailers when batches are sold to them.

This leaves most of the $93 to retail-markup and no way is Microsoft going to allow retailers and other middlemen to take 2/3rds of the list-price of their product. Maybe a smaller company would have to settle for that but no, they should be lucky to get 25% of the retail price, any Microsoft exec who brokers a deal of a Kinect batch at $56 per unit to Amazon.com (who sell for $149) will get brutalised.

This is complicated because retailers do not buy from manufacturers at a set price per unit, it's not like we buy from a supermarket. It's wholesale. Deals are negotiated for higher orders, and how much they may end up paying "per unit" can vary a lot. This is the point where microsoft actually makes money, selling giant truckloads of Kinect to Best Buy, Amazon, Wal-mart or other middle men who may then sell the product onto smaller stores or overseas (hence the usual mark-up of Kinect over here).

Microsoft is easily making over $60 for ever Kinect that is sold and may make MORE per unit if demand goes up, retailers will be prepared to pay MORE per batch - so Microsoft gets more per unit - as retailers vie to be the ones that stock it. The retailers may even pay $149 or more per unit and sell it at that price (or even higher)... but then they will buy a metric-shit ton of Kinect-shovel-ware at low-low price and try to sell to the same people at $60 per game.

Mostly, the $56 manufacture cost is a very clear indicator that Microsoft will make a large profit from the hardware. Exactly how much, who can say for definite, but still this shows where their emphasis is.

Of course they will have costs in development, licensing and marketing and they deserve to be able to make a profit SOMEWHERE... but I make the case the profits to pay of those debts and then prosper overall should come from games, not hardware. It just leads to a conflict of interest.

If you have amazing games you don't need such a vast marketing budget, it will to a great extent advertise itself. Like Uncharted 2, the time and money spend making it look almost photo-realistic became a marketing point in TV adverts! Again the investment in the capability of Move technology became a genuine marketing point just be demonstrating it in a simple and entertainingly snarky way.
And I'm not convinced Microsoft have invested enough in making great games for Kinect that are inherently appealing... they seem to need a Half-Billion budget to convince people with catch-phrases like "YOU are the controller".
 

CrystalShadow

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tkioz said:
the concept of loss-leading is patently stupid, and too many companies do it, leading them to try forcing the consumer to buy software.
I worked for a company that partook in loss-leading, and our department was the culprit.

In this case it was a business that handles warranty repairs. But, the repair fees themselves don't even cover the wages of those of us doing the repairs.

The company made money because it reconditioned parts and sold those for a substantial margin.

But, a condition of their contract with the companies they did repairs for meant they could only sell their reconditioned parts if they also did whole system repairs.

Suffice to say being in this department was unpleasant. We were under constant pressure to work faster, but the fastest person in the department managed all of 15 units a day.
Considering what was being paid per unit, even this wasn't enough for the department to be profitable in it's own right.

Loss-leading seems to be unavoidable in some situations.
Some things just can't be done for a profit in and of themselves.

Though consoles probably could be sold for a profit, so it's not really the best comparison.
 

Antari

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Give it a year or two and they will mysteriously drop the price ... now you can see. It won't be because they optimized construction. :)
 

Necromancer1991

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You do realize there's more to making these than parts right, the months of testing and tweaking the design, making ads, and testing the kinect is where that last 30$ comes in, and before you ask, I got 30$ from guessing both Kinect adventures and Kinect itself would cost about 120$ together. Besides the price will go down, they've made enough money by this point a 50$ price drop is inevitable (It's only November after all)
 

Digikid

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Well the iPOd Touch ( first 3 Gens ) only cost about $70 to make and Apple sells it for $299CDN....

Money Corrupts.
 

Exort

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Vryyk said:
Sure, R&D, shipping costs, advertising, and all that good stuff is free. We're totally getting screwed over here.
I pretty sure all those don't add up even near $90.
 

MasAcERd

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Nov 9, 2009
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this artical is misleading.

The bom is how much it would cost to buy the individual componants and not a total production costs to create the device.
Saying that M marked up the kinect up 90 dollars is wrong, because you got to factor in coste to actually build the device and the game retailors profit

the antithesis said:
Actually, tripling the base cost to set the retail price is not that uncommon. I used to work in a restaurant and the way the meals would be priced was to take the cost of the main entree, say a nice steak, and triple it. Soup, salad and sides wouldn't be counted but they're cheap so they're easily covered. So a $20 porterhouse steak would go for $60. Beef is expensive but it comes with endless bread sticks.

So this price point with that cost is not that unreasonable nor surprising.
Some of my friends are farmers and they say that the price that the super market, to whom they sell there eggs, is multiplied by 4 so i am not suprised
 

Vryyk

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Exort said:
Vryyk said:
Sure, R&D, shipping costs, advertising, and all that good stuff is free. We're totally getting screwed over here.
I pretty sure all those don't add up even near $90.
Do you have any idea what a single 30 second spot on primetime television costs? Or paying a trucker his 15-20 dollars per hour to drive thousands of miles? What about the individual salary of a single college educated researcher over the couple of years it took to make this? Internet pay-per-click ads on heavy traffic sites? Middle-man mark ups when buying the individual components and paying more shipping to get them to the factory? What about Wal-Mart or Best Buy's cut? They don't sell Kinect's for Microsoft for free you know. Assembly costs? Quality assurance? Do any of these things sound cheap to you?
 

Layzor

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When you buy something like this you aren't paying for the pieces it's made of, you're paying for the research n shiz.
 

Get_A_Grip_

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When you add in the thousands and thousands of dollars used for researching the market, developing the product and advertising it, not to mention the cost of labour, the price seems decent.
 

PunkZERO

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Before starting to rant on Microsoft you should consider, that the hardware ALONE is worth 56$. Neither does this include shipping of the parts , nor assembling, nor shipping the whole thing back, nor development costs.

They will earn their money with Kinect, but not neraly 100$ per piece.
 
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Icehearted said:
randomrob said:
See this is why I've never paid Microsoft for anything ever. Because they're cheap, greedy bastards and I can get anything they release (that I actually want) better and/or cheaper elsewhere. I write this from an Ubuntu operating system. :)
Good thing there are people like you to make up for those of us that are either too lazy, hypocritical, or indifferent to evoke change with our own cash.

I don't care how much R&D went into this thing, that markup is way too high to be remotely excusable. Not that I care, since I have never intended to buy one anyway. Way to piss on your users, Microsoft.
No, that mark-up isn't too high, it's not even twice the production costs. It looks like it's high to you and me because $90 (roughly £54) is a nice wad to have in your pocket but you have to remember that there are also labour costs and quality and control to deal with. Not to mention the research and other things that went into it beforehand.

They'll still have to sell quite a number of them to break even. Lets not forget that they're a company too, they need to make a profit to stay in business. In the end, it's a justifiable amount that they've worked out as a bit more than what they need to achieve a target profit.
 

Vryyk

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Spot1990 said:
Materials is just one part of the cost of the unit. They are entirely ignoring

Labor
Packaging
Shipping
Product Management
Product Support
Marketing
Administration

Also, the entire retail price doesn't go to Microsoft. If the Kinect is selling for 150 dollars, then you can imagine that the retailers profit margin on that is about 20-30% at the bare minimum, so Microsoft is probably lucky to make 10-20 dollars a unit on these, which would mean that their margin is about 10-20%, which is actually razor thin on consumer electronics.

Seriously, you guys complaining about the price of the Kinect, you *really* don't want to know how much you get gang raped on margin off that bottle of coke your slurping down right now. Pull your heads out and at least learn some of the basics of how your own damn economies work.
Thank God people still understand economics. I'd also like to add that even if they WERE making the full 90$ on each one, what's important is that people will buy it at that price. I don't really agree with the common sentiment that just because they want to make money, they are morally suspect. They do what they do so they can afford nice things for themselves and their families, the exact same reason we work at factories, go to college, and flip burgers. They also create many jobs by doing so and push technology forward. Yes, they make more money, but only because it is hard to manage the multitude of difficulties that go in to making a company breathe. I think the ill-will is a combination of jealousy taken too far and ignorance.
 

Treblaine

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Mornelithe said:
Treblaine said:
Definitely agree, not sure how anyone could claim Sony hasn't taken monstrous risks this cycle. Most of their devs who are notorious already for established IP, went and created brand new IP that are now on their 2nd and 3rd iterations. That's taking a gamble, and you're right, Sony's exclusives haven't sold nearly as well as the major ones in Microsoft's stable, but as you said, they span more genre's than their competition, providing more entertainment for more types of people.

Really strange, I've no idea how someone could think MS took risks this gen. lol.
Yes, it's a shame. But their loss.

At times it seems more like they are projecting the concerns they find with Microsoft's decisions over Xbox onto Sony, perhaps it's a coping mechanism to ease worries that they have bought into a bad platform; they then seek out and exaggerate those aspects in what they perceive as the alternative.

Though by my rough count (VG Chartz World totals) it seems the total number exclusives sold for each system are about equal at 60 million each from 360 and PS3. PS3 exclusives may not sell quite as many PER exclusive, but there are MORE PS3 exclusives.
 

SmugFrog

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Sep 4, 2008
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DayDark said:
holy fuck, I'm planning on buying a kinect, but knowing that, I feel microsoft is kinecting with my ass.
Hopefully we'll see a price drop after the holidays. Probably won't happen until about a year from now though.