Knightfail

[Imperioratorex Caprae]

I liked most of this movie but I feel it suffered a ton of rewrites to the script namely having to do with Heath Ledger no longer being with us on the mortal plane. I really feel Nolan intended the Joker to be part of the final movie and his absence leaves a gaping hole in the film's plot. Of course I don't really know if this is true, its just speculation.
As far as Robin goes, I thought the reveal was clever and I missed all the signs because they were masked fairly well. And I also feel saddened that we probably will never see Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Robin, or the new Batman because frankly he's pulling a Matt Damon/Jason Bourne on us. I never thought him to be an action star but Inception went a long way in proving range for him in my view and Dark Knight Rises cemented that. A real waste of potential in my view.
Otherwise despite holes and the specter of Heath Ledger, the movie wasn't as bad as it could have been and wrapped up the trilogy enough for me to be satisfied. And you really couldn't top the 2nd movie anyway. It just worked on so many levels that couldn't be duplicated without compromising its art.

 

[Aiddon_v1legacy]

it's still the best movie of the summer. This is the Return of the King of superhero films as it is the ending to the best series of superhero movies EVER. Nolan broke the 3rd movie curse and has proven he's the best thing that ever happened to comic book movies. This analysis isn't really all that provocative and is merely a difference of opinion

 

[angel85]

My biggest problem is the fusion reactor subplot. Wayne enterprises went through significant expense to make this machine that can provide cheap clean energy to millions and probably save the world, but he scraps it on the outside chance that someone out there with the know-how just MIGHT make it into a weapon...I was sitting in my seat wishing I could cry out "ARE YOU F-ING KIDDING ME?!" If we didn't embrace innovation or technology because of the fear that SOMEONE might use it as a weapon someday we never would have learned how to use FIRE. Besides, it's not like the fusion reactor is the only thing in the world that can be made into a nuclear bomb. A dedicated enough terrorist could make his own nuke using materials from almost any nuclear power plant in the world, or you know what? They could just STEAL and actual nuclear bomb, as far as I know there are a few thousand just sitting in government bunkers.

Although it DOES create a hilarious throwback to the Adam West days, you know, where Batman was running through the city with the big bomb with a burning fuse over his head trying to find a safe place to dispose of it and he says "Some days you just can't get rid of a bomb!"

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

When i watched it all i thought was Batman v Bronson. lol

 

[zelda2fanboy]

And I'm surprised you didn't also bring-up that whole "leap of faith" Bullshit in Batman's escape from the prison. I've said it before and I'll say it again: fear of death is not going to make a twelve year old girl jump further than a fully grown man.

It was the rope. If you get a chance, pay attention to the rope when they show people jumping, the rope goes taut just as they get close to the ledge and they fail to make it. By not using the rope and risking death you can make the jump because the rope no longer prevents you. Neither the kid nor Bruce use the rope when they succeed. That said, I noticed it the first time Bruce tried to jump and was immediately expecting him to go "oh the rope" and try again. Nope, 15 more mins of moping and waiting for a side character to explain something I thought was incredibly obvious.

Yeah, but wouldn't anyone who climbed it figure that out on the first try? I thought of it and I was just watching the movie. It would probably come to mind when I was hundreds of feet in the air and I noticed my rope didn't have enough slack.

 

[rbstewart7263]

Bobs always at his best with film. I mean I absolutely loved the film but everything bob said was indeed true.

The joy of not seeing movies alot is that good movies are great because the bad doesnt poke out at you as much.

 

[rbstewart7263]

And I'm surprised you didn't also bring-up that whole "leap of faith" Bullshit in Batman's escape from the prison. I've said it before and I'll say it again: fear of death is not going to make a twelve year old girl jump further than a fully grown man.

It was the rope. If you get a chance, pay attention to the rope when they show people jumping, the rope goes taut just as they get close to the ledge and they fail to make it. By not using the rope and risking death you can make the jump because the rope no longer prevents you. Neither the kid nor Bruce use the rope when they succeed. That said, I noticed it the first time Bruce tried to jump and was immediately expecting him to go "oh the rope" and try again. Nope, 15 more mins of moping and waiting for a side character to explain something I thought was incredibly obvious.

Yeah, but wouldn't anyone who climbed it figure that out on the first try? I thought of it and I was just watching the movie. It would probably come to mind when I was hundreds of feet in the air and I noticed my rope didn't have enough slack.

Yeah but if you fear death.(bruce dont) youl suspend disbelief that you can have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Gardock]

Interesting and thoughtful as always, but that doesn't mean I agree. I think a lot of your observations are just plain untrue, in fact--you really don't think there was any more dramatic tension in the "second rising" (I really, really don't think it's accurate to call it two arcs--it's one arc with a major setback. He decides to be Batman again, fails miserably, winds up worse off than ever, and only after that does he have any kind of learning experience or meaningful victory)? He got a couple of cool moments in the first half due to having new toys, but they were just action scenes. Even the first "He's back!" moment is just him showing up on the motorcycle while one of the cops is like "Oh, shit!" Compare that to the tension and triumph of the climbing-out-of-the-pit scene and burning his calling card into the side of a skyscraper for the whole city to see. There was only one "rising." He just needed multiple attempts.

As for when he figures out that Selina's more than she appears, I'd say it was when they had the extended ideological conversation about her resentment of the upper class? Just as a guess? If he said something about it beforehand, I'd assume he meant she was a major-league threat and not just a common thief, considering she stole his fingerprints and that's a pretty good indication she was up to something bigger than a pearl necklace.

As for the telling instead of showing, you're absolutely right... about the whole trilogy. That's been something you've had to be willing to ignore about Nolan's filmmaking from day one. They're all stuffed with monologues that explicitly outline the significance of the plot instead of just letting the actions stand for themselves. I for one find a good melodramatic moral monologue kind of fun, even if it's objectively flawed writing. One way or the other, I take issue with the implication that that kind of thing didn't fly in The Dark Knight. The closing scene of that movie is Gordon's voiceover summing up the plot and explaining the title. Harvey Dent accidentally outlines his own character arc in the middle of a dinner conversation in the first act. The Joker's ENTIRE PERSONALITY is unsolicited speeches about his beliefs and motivations. In Batman Begins, Bruce's character development is shown pretty much exclusively in conversations about himself with Ra's, Alfred and Rachel. I love all these movies, but telling instead of showing is absolutely not a problem that first (or even most severely) manifested in Rises.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

The film's third act is built around a series of three twists, one that occurs as part of the action and two that function as post-climax "gotchas." Only the final one (Bruce faked his/Batman's death and is really still alive) actually works

I disagree with this 100%. In fact, the whole "faking his death" thing kinda pissed me off for reasons that it should have pissed off the other characters in the movie. Don't get me wrong, I understand the symbolism that he let everyone think Batman is dead so that he can quit for good. That's fine, it wraps-up the whole "Getting Bruce to not need Batman" part of the story.

The problem comes in with how everyone just kind of accepts it. Most namely Selina and Alfred. Now, we don't get to see Selina mourning, granted, but you know she had to have been upset. Yet when she learns he's alive she decides to get married to him? But okay, fine, we don't see it play out, so I'll allow it. But Alfred? We SEE how badly he was torn-up by Bruce's (not Batman's) death; yet when he learns that all that grieving that he went through was for nothing... he just smiles? No, I'm sorry, I don't accept that. No one, after going through that rough of a grieving phase, is going to just up and accept it when he learns that the person faked his death.

Even worse is the lie that was told to the audience. A great ending where he chooses to sacrifice himself to save the lives of millions, and that entire dramatic moment was ruined by Nolan waving the Deus Ex Machina wand and having some nameless engineer at WyaneCorp tell us that the auto-pilot was working just fine...

So in short, Batman lies to Selina, Alfred, AND us about his sacrifice... and we're supposed to just forgive that as easily as Alfred did when he learned about it (and presumably Selina)? No, I'm sorry, it doesn't work that way.

 

[gorfias]

No passage of time? Bruce Wayne 2005

and in 2012

A quibble; Not since Rocky 2 have they so forgotten a character's wound. Bruce makes it out of the pit after a record setting leap. With no cartilidge in his knee? Oh well.

 

[Susan Arendt]

Completely disagree over the passage of time problems, but must agree that Gotham would be rather a lot dirtier after 5 months of mob rule.

 

[OrpheusTelos]

Well, while I can't disagree with too much of the article, I think it is worth noting that when Bruce Wayne explains a plot point to himself in the hallucination scene, he gets it wrong...

I loved his face when Miranda revealed herself. "What?! My hallucination of Liam Neeson lied to me!"

 

[Shellsh0cker]

I largely agree with Bob's assessment here, but I've got something else to add. While The Dark Knight Rises was, by and large, quite a good movie, what it didn't feel like was a good Batman movie. None of the themes or execution thereof felt like the character being Batman, as opposed to some other generic washed-up badass, actually had any bearing on the movie. Heck, I'd even say that Batman doesn't actually feel like Batman for most of the movie. Batman is good at punching people, sure, but his primary strength is his keen intellect. Batman wins more by outsmarting and outmaneuvering his adversary, but in Rises is seems like the only solution is "punch it."

While I know it's subjective, I think my post-movie feelings were fairly illustrative: after watching The Dark Knight again, I popped Arkham Asylum into my Xbox. After Rises, though, I felt more like going back to Mass Effect 3.

 

[VonKlaw]

Having literally just got back from the cinema, I have to agree with Bob about the twists. They were terrible - my dad (who went with me but doesn't really know much about Batman) picked up on the "oh hey this guy acts like a wannabe Robin" and the Talia twist felt stupidly obvious from fairly early in the movie. However, I thought the first Bane fight was great (given that Bane isn't just trying to beat Bruce, he's trying to destroy him mentally too) and the touches about the first two films (having Crane as the judge was brilliant imo) still made the film really enjoyable.

EDIT: Also have to say, the way Bane was treated (filmwise rather than personally) was pretty shitty. "Oh hey he's just some sidekick who had his face smashed in" followed by "lol shot by Catwoman insta-death" with the space of five minutes felt stupidly rushed at best.

 

[vid87]

I agree the Talia twist was weak based on how little time she had (ironically to keep her under the radar to make it more surprising) but I remember Bob's breakdown of Nolan's style of featuring emotionally distant protagonists whose brief moments of vulnerability and passion undercut him in the end. While it could've been executed better, if there was any saga that would fit this MO, it was Batman and Talia, so it made at least some kind of sense, although casting Marion Cottilard, who played THE EXACT SAME ROLE in Inception, was a red flag that sort've spoiled the surprise for me.

 

[Duffy13]

And I'm surprised you didn't also bring-up that whole "leap of faith" Bullshit in Batman's escape from the prison. I've said it before and I'll say it again: fear of death is not going to make a twelve year old girl jump further than a fully grown man.

It was the rope. If you get a chance, pay attention to the rope when they show people jumping, the rope goes taut just as they get close to the ledge and they fail to make it. By not using the rope and risking death you can make the jump because the rope no longer prevents you. Neither the kid nor Bruce use the rope when they succeed. That said, I noticed it the first time Bruce tried to jump and was immediately expecting him to go "oh the rope" and try again. Nope, 15 more mins of moping and waiting for a side character to explain something I thought was incredibly obvious.

Hmmm I didn't notice that. But if that's true surely someone else who missed the jump and fell back down could have said: "Next time could you leave me a little slack?" I'm not sure how the rope worked (whether it was tied to the ledge or not) but I seem to remember it did reach all the way down to the bottom from the top when they were climbing. Unless it was some kind double pulley system, I don't see how it would get so short so close to the top.

Yeah but if you fear death.(bruce don't) you'll suspend disbelief that you can have your cake and eat it too.

But it's not even physically necessary. I was hopping for something clever like the fake-out from The Last Crusade or some ingenuity like Mulan when she retrieves the arrow. But no, only 'fear' can give you the boost you need.

The rope has to get shorter as you climb otherwise you would fall and just hit the ground if it was the same length of slack as when you started. IIRC it was an anchored pulley near the top that was holding the rope. It could be argued it's essentially a trick mechanism to give the inmates hope but restrain them with their own fears of falling and dying. Only those without fear of death can truly make the climb and jump. That all being said, waaaaayyyy too ambiguous if true.

 

[Sovereignty]

First: I was under the impression he deduced that Bane was Ra's son (Incorrectly), mainly due to the fact that Bane had sent him there as a punishment. He'd even gone so far as to explain to Bruce Wayne about the place. I hardly think it's so outlandish to think that a great mind like Batman's wouldn't be able to form that simple conclusion from the following elements previously established.


Bane was excommunicated from the league of shadows.
Bane was in the pit.
Only one person ever successfully escaped the pit.


I mean if I told anyone with a functioning brain those three plot points, I'm sure they'd reach the same conclusion. Even without the aid of a hallucination.



Second: I agree with the problem with the transition of time. However I don't think it's as bad as you (and arguably many other reviewers) try and make it seem. I saw the movie, and while it wasn't spelled out for me... I instantly knew that time had lapsed. From the different setting (How decayed things looked, weather, etc.) to the characters I highly doubt someone thought during the movie Batman had crawled out of the pit... Then was just a seven minute walk away from being Batman again.



Am I the only one who enjoyed the (arguably preachy) monologues? They were delivered exquisitely and really made an impact on my experience while watching in the theater. I don't understand all the hate for them. Sure in REAL LIFE no one is going to take the time to summarize things that happened, or clarify things in long speeches... But by the same token why not be angry that Batman didn't just taze Bane? Or hell why would Batman give a gun to Miranda Tate and expect this rich girl to protect him while he fights the mega-bad guy?


I don't know, but I think that people are out to stake this one. They went in *knowing* it wouldn't be as good as TDK and are just nit-picking to try and convince themselves they were right all along.

 

[HBaskerville]

"It feels almost gauche at this point to put out something that even looks like a "The Dark Knight Rises' Flaws" article."

Should have stopped right there.