Koei Tecmo Confirms No Western Release for Dead or Alive Xtreme 3

[WeepingAngels]

So they decided not to tell us the "real" reason they aren't releasing it. Wonder why.

 

[C14N]

Sure thing, they totally didn't do nothing...
some dumb pictures

What a great point! If game critics were more honest and less corrupt, they'd stop criticising games forever because when they do criticise them, the developers feelings might get hurt and that's bad. I mean it would be okay if they talked shit about Gone Home or something because fuck that SJW lesbo crap, but they'd better not say bad things about my virtual titties or they're corrupt or something.


Honestly, it's amazing how much this Gamergate thing has finally come full circle and turned into "game critics should only say what I want them to say". It's amazing that people like this have the gall to complain about free speech being impinged. If Koei Tecmo wanted to release their shitty, uncontroversial, fap game that hardly anyone even bought in the past, they're free to do so. There have never been calls to ban this series in the past, there haven't even been large scale boycotts. Dead or Alive Extreme has always been so far over the top as pubescent jerk-off material that hardly anyone who isn't paid to review it has ever even cared. What exactly are the spooky feminists and social justice warriors going to do anyway? Not buy the game?

 

[Amur El Bey]

The problem was that Koei Tecmo wasn't going to localize that game for Western Audiences with the CM vaguely stating that recent debates of women in gaming being a factor. (Which was just debunked by the company)
Play-Asia just rode the wave of outrage to promote itself and the projects it would sell as being "The Stuff """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""SJWs"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" don't want you to buy!"

So basically, you can still import an English verison of the game, Tecmo just aren't going to sell it retail in Western Markets.

Umm, what exactly has been "debunked"? A CM for Team Ninja, the developer that worked on the game stated it plainly what the reason was in said conversation on Facebook. Their publisher Koei Tecmo basically took that and turned it into PR speak "while consciously respecting and strategizing to support the different global audiences the Dead or Alive franchise lends itself to".

This all but proves that this wasn't a "big PR offensive" like some idiots have been constantly saying for the past few days, but the Team Ninja CM actually being honest about the reason and Koei Tecmo trying to beckpedal because they didn't want a controversy.

For one, SJW's didn't even boycott the game or push legislation that banned it from the country.

Sure thing, they totally didn't do nothing...

1. Fair enough, the company could just be doing a bunch of PR speak to reduce controversy. However I find it highly unlikely that a company decides not to make a game simply because it will be controversial. They're a business and there goal is to make money. Why would they even care if some people don't like the game as long as it sells well? It's more likely that the reason is because western audiences don't buy the game due to it's portrayal of women (and just doing be good in the first place). The developer could be correct, but not for the reason that the anti-SJW people think. If enough people like a product that could justify a significant profit, companies have no good reason not provide said product to customers simply because other people in that region don't like it. Your product isn't going to impact them at all, so you have no reason to care about what they say. It would be like Bioware refusing to localize Mass Effect to Australia because extreme conservative group in that country doesn't like the idea that a female Shepard is a soldier. Bioware doesn't and shouldn't care what that conservative group says. Why should they? Those people aren't their customers, don't have any legal power, and can't stop retailers from stocking the game. It's not just a basic of conducting business, it's common sense.

2. All of those screenshots that you posted aren't really countering my argument. You're just showing me examples of people criticizing the game. That's as much as boycotting or pushing legislation as reviewers shitting on that Adam Sandler movie Pixels. Just because a reviewer tells you a game is crap and that you shouldn't buy it is hardly the spirit of what I would consider a boycott. A boycott is refusing to buy a product not because of it's quality, but because of the circumstances that went into the product of the product or because of the actions of the people who produce said product. For example boycotting Chinese toys because of the way factory workers in China are treated or because of China's human rights abuses.

 

[gyrobot_v1legacy]

I am confused, somewhat. They don't want bad publicity over these games, but they continue to make the games. Do they think that because they are not releasing it in the West, that the West won't hear about it? They know the Internet exists, they use it. Not sure... the lack of logic hurts my brain.

The game was specifically Japan + Asia only. PA simply exploited the crisis

Well next time this happens they will simply make it so you cant import it and ip block foreign ips outsise of Asia to keep us mostly out of the loop.

This one was for free. Next time dont expect KTJ to show the same leniency towards dostributors using this marketig tactic.

Still a dark day for localization. The old guys running the companies will probably follow KTJs example for future games

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Oh Christ, I'll be glad when the internet forgets about this bullshit. Yet, I'll wallow in it anyway, just for the fun of it.
I'm still not sure why people seem to think this game has been banned or censored. While I agree that censorship is more complicated than the exclusively government enforced type, calling this censorship is really stretching it. A bunch of people don't like the way female characters are depicted and have used their freedom of speech to make that known. While I personally find their complaints rather petulant since the existence of this game, contrary to what some might think, isn't going to hurt anyone. Even so, I'm not sure what people expect to do about this. You can't ban feminists from complaining about this, nor can you force the company to release the game in the west, so the only other options are to either sit here and feel persecuted or convince them to release the game. As for that option, it seems unlikely. I highly doubt they really care about upsetting anyone's cultural sensitivities, especially since people will hate them for making these games regardless of where they're released, and due to the almost non-existence overlap between people who buy these games and people who'll boycott a game over the depiction of women.
They probably believe there won't be enough audience in the west to justify the effort, which may or may not be true, and may be influenced by the current cultural attitudes in the west. Still, if that's the case, it's hardily censorship if people just plain don't like something enough to make it profitable. It's possible that the company are simply underestimating the audience, I guess, but that's hardily anyone's fault but their own.

As for their statement, why exactly are people acting like they've clarified the issue? They clarified nothing! Some PR guy opened his mouth and emitted white noise for a couple of seconds, nothing more.

Also, why are people suddenly acting like cultural clashes and region exclusive content are a new development? Japan has approached sexuality in media differently from the west for as long as ... well, longer than pretty much anyone on these forums has been alive. There is plenty of media that isn't localized for other countries due to cultural differences.

And once again: "Jim Fucking Sterling, Son!" is proven to be correct.

Thank god for him.

I'm not really inclined to thank him for weighing in on the issue. I agree with his sentiment that turning this into a cause to be fought with your wallet, just like with Hatred, is rather stupid. Yet, to say he delivered this in a pointlessly immature way would be an understatement.
I watched the Jimquisition episode and it was by far the absolute nadir of the series. He took 7 minutes to basically only say "they're exploiting this for profit" in the smuggest, most sarcastic, condescending and drawn out way possible. Usually when he takes a side on an issue he at least explains the situation and why he picks one side over the other, and why the other side is wrong, but in that episode there was no real context for the snark; you just had to have been familiar with the issue already. It was basically seven minutes of him giving the opposition the middle finger without ever having to defend his own position, or make an argument against theirs. Anyone who already knows about the issue won't be pursued by the arguments he didn't even bother to make, and anyone who doesn't know about the situation would be completely confused by the lethal levels of sarcasm and smugness.
I'd liken it to a bombastic victory dance in search of a victory.

Hell, without meaning to blow my own horn, my paltry little reply, along with pretty much every other post in this thread, has far more intellectual merit, nuance and discussion value than that entire video. It just seems like he would have been better off either discussing the issue in a meaningful way, or ignoring it altogether.

 

[RJ 17]

And once again: "Jim Fucking Sterling, Son!" is proven to be correct.

Thank god for him.

I'm not really inclined to thank him for weighing in on the issue. I agree with his sentiment that turning this into a cause to be fought with your wallet, just like with Hatred, is rather stupid. Yet, to say he delivered this in a pointlessly immature way would be an understatement.

I'm guessing you weren't much of a fan of the Mass Effect 3 Turned Me Gay episode, either.

This entire "controversy" has been a hilarious non-issue of people flipping out over a game that no one gives a damn about. The game itself has become nothing more than ammo so the people arguing with one another about gender issues and SJWs and feminists and what-have-you can continue arguing with each other about gender issues and SJWs and feminists and what-have-you.

If you ask me, since the controversy over the game is, itself, not a serious issue, then it doesn't require a serious episode in order to cover it.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

And once again: "Jim Fucking Sterling, Son!" is proven to be correct.

Thank god for him.

I'm not really inclined to thank him for weighing in on the issue. I agree with his sentiment that turning this into a cause to be fought with your wallet, just like with Hatred, is rather stupid. Yet, to say he delivered this in a pointlessly immature way would be an understatement.

I'm guessing you weren't much of a fan of the Mass Effect 3 Turned Me Gay episode, either.

This entire "controversy" has been a hilarious non-issue of people flipping out over a game that no one gives a damn about. The game itself has become nothing more than ammo so the people arguing with one another about gender issues and SJWs and feminists and what-have-you can continue arguing with each other about gender issues and SJWs and feminists and what-have-you.

If you ask me, since the controversy over the game is, itself, not a serious issue, then it doesn't require a serious episode in order to cover it.

If you mean the "Jimquisition: Mass Effect 3: A Gay Erotic Love Story" episode, I'm fine with that one. I more or less consider it the upper tier of his "satire" episodes, but I've never been a fan of his particular type of satire when it's drawn out to an entire episode in length. It relies too much on making the point painfully obvious and labored for comic effect, as well as absurd levels of sarcasm. It's fine when he puts it where it belongs; at the beginning and/or end of the episode, and sprinkled here and there, but an entire episode of painfully drawn out and on the nose satire that gets in the way of anything of substance is just too much. This one in particular was just nauseating due to how much more smug and mean spirited it all seemed.

As for whether this controversy should be taken seriously, plenty of people take it seriously, so if you're going to devote an entire episode to it then you might as well create something of substance. Besides, I don't really get why this should be treated any differently than any other controversy. Covering minor controversies in the gaming industry is pretty much the bread and butter of the show, so it's not like this doesn't perfectly align with the regular subjects.
Aside from that, it just seemed rather immature. If it really is so obvious that this is just a marketing campaign then why not actually prove this or at least offer a convincing argument instead of just leaping into the argument and giving the opposition the middle finger? All he did was stir the pot and polarize people further when he could have used the show to change people's minds and appeal for calm. Not that I believe all or even most of the people can be talked down, but there are those who can, so you might as well be the voice of reason in this mess instead of yet another screaming lunatic.

 

[RJ 17]

Snip.

Fair enough, you've no need to justify your distaste of the episode to me. Personally I didn't have an issue with it. As I said: I feel this entire ordeal has been a complete farce from the beginning, as such I think a farcical episode was fitting. If you feel he went too far/over-the-top with the sarcasm and satire, then fair enough.

 

[Furnicula]

Anyone who uses the term "prude" isn't interested in a discussion, they just want to froth at the mouth due to manufactured internet outrage.

Okay, then stop behaving like puritans trying to decide how other people should behave and what they should enjoy.

They don't want to think critically, they just want to rage at their key boards over a non-issue. No one is crusading against the presence of sexuality in gaming.

That's kind of what the opposite side is doing and yes they are crusading against it.

Sexuality, and sex, are perfectly acceptable things to explore in games.

Yet here you are railing against a Volleyball game that doesn't even contain any nudity, because you don't want other people to be able to play it.

What people are criticizing are how women are depicted in games.

I haven't heard any criticism, only attacks in the form of calling the developers and their audience any number of things from misogynists/sexists to creeps to other things e.g. personal attacks and attempts to shame based on personal morals.

In Dead or Alive the women are treated as sex objects, and there is a clear voyeurism to the game. This is reinforced by the fact that a big part of the title are the fanservice outfits available as DLC. The statements of the creators are further evidence of how the developers view women.

They aren't "women", but fictional characters and there's absolutely nothing wrong with them being sexy, I'm really sorry that you've been indoctrinated to dislike boobs, but this ain't my problem. The statements by the creators indicate that they stand by their games and tell you absolutely nothing about "their view on women" or whether they are married, have daughters or anything like that.

What a great point! If game critics were more honest and less corrupt, they'd stop criticising games forever because when they do criticise them, the developers feelings might get hurt and that's bad. I mean it would be okay if they talked shit about Gone Home or something because fuck that SJW lesbo crap, but they'd better not say bad things about my virtual titties or they're corrupt or something.

There hasn't been any criticism of the game, the game isn't even out yet. Only moralistic sermons about how sexuality is bad combined with character attacks on the developers and their audience and some rhetoric about how a Volleyball-game is going to be harmful to women and set the industry back or something.

There have never been calls to ban this series in the past, there haven't even been large scale boycotts. [...] What exactly are the spooky feminists and social justice warriors going to do anyway? Not buy the game?

Jim Sterling on this very site called for the series to "not come to the West" a few years ago, gaming journalists and lots of gamers started a "boycott" against Play-Asia because they dared speak out the reason why it won't come to the West, which backfired when about 100x the amount of people fought back against them. And yes, exactly what they've done.

1. Fair enough, the company could just be doing a bunch of PR speak to reduce controversy. However I find it highly unlikely that a company decides not to make a game simply because it will be controversial. They're a business and there goal is to make money. Why would they even care if some people don't like the game as long as it sells well?

It's rather baffling indeed, chances are they believe that what these few dozens to hundreds of gaming journalists "say" somehow represents the view of their games in the Western market, which couldn't be the case any less. Other reasons might be not wanting to take a PR hit when they want to continue with the Dead or Alive fighting game franchise or their plans to work together with Disney or Nintendo on other franchises. There's was a large enough audience even back in 2003 to warrant a physical release in the West. A Digital Release would literally cost them only a few thousand $. They've brought a lot smaller niche titles to the West and this is the first Dead or Alive game that they aren't releasing overseas, so that argument doesn't really make any sense.

And once again: "Jim Fucking Sterling, Son!" is proven to be correct.

Thank god for him.

I'm not really inclined to thank him for weighing in on the issue. I agree with his sentiment that turning this into a cause to be fought with your wallet, just like with Hatred, is rather stupid. Yet, to say he delivered this in a pointlessly immature way would be an understatement.

There are videos that took both Jim Sterling and Moviebob to task over their overt defense of censorship:

 

[IceForce]

I honestly wonder, given the insults he threw TB's way over the cynical brit taking a neutral stance

Citation for this?

Jim's and TB's relationship seems to be perfectly amicable. Jim mentions TB in his videos quite regularly, and TB features Jim on his podcast and even spotlighted Jim's channel in an awards video last year.

If you have evidence that this friendship is all a facade and/or that one or the other insults the other behind their back, I'd like to see this evidence.

 

[IceForce]

Also: did I miss something? I don't recall Jim ever openly coming out as anti-consumer. o.o

He didn't. It's just more gamergate nonsense.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Now see, when you start with this:

EDIT: And having scouted around a bit, I see where all the SJW denialism is coming from now.
Seems that Jim Sterling and Bob Chipman have been on the road proselytizing about "SJWs" again, or rather, trying to destroy the meaning of the term by attaching stigma to anyone that uses it unironically.

Glad to see the guilt-by-association shame game is alive and well. Because it apparently wouldn't be gaming without some pretentious fuckwit trying to attach shame to some part of it.

And then lead into this:

If I were Koei-Tecmo, I'd be wary of releasing anything that paints women in anything less than saintly. Giving the progressive/feminist hacks easy ammo to espouse their usual dogmatic bullshit masquerading as "criticism" can't be a net positive for business.

this:

I mean, SJWs have raised bigger stinks over much less in the past year alone.
(Or did I cross into a dimension where those shitheels DIDN'T go berserk over Matt Taylor's shirt?)

and this

SJW modus operandi is to look for shit that offends them, and hope one of their tantrums is loud enough to stick.
Picking on a niche game with enough direct male pandering to make Sarkeesian eat her earrings in enraged huff seems like an incredibly obvious outcome in this highly political climate; not a skeptical one.

it makes me think of the phrase "no bad tactics, only bad targets" for some reason. Can't really place why though.

 

[IceForce]

Seems that Jim Sterling and Bob Chipman have been on the road proselytizing about "SJWs" again, or rather, trying to destroy the meaning of the term by attaching stigma to anyone that uses it unironically.

This is pretty hilarious. They're attaching a stigma to anyone who uses the term "SJW"? What about the stigma attached to the actual fucking term itself and the people who are labeled with it?

Ah, but of course, I guess we don't care about that because those people make acceptable targets. Yep.

 

[JimB]

Forgive me for not quoting the correct post, Furnicula, but the oddest error keeps occurring, where the quote tags for the post you wrote immediately after this one appear in the Reply box when I reply to your post, but no text appears between those tags. I'm going to flag this post for moderator attention in the hopes that it will directed to whomever maintains these forums.

In any event:

For instance, "Nobody cares about Dead or Alive:"

If so many people want Dead or Alive, Furnicula, then were is the vocal call of support? You blame the company's choice not to publish the game on the vocal detractors, but don't you think that's a bit like someone who didn't vote blaming the opposing party for their policies? Why is it that your opponents have a greater duty to be silent than you have to speak up? Because let me tell you, if the solution you find to this or any problem in life is to try to control the behaviors of anyone other than yourself, then you are going to live a very frustrated existence.

And as long as I'm asking questions, I must ask--and this is a totally serious question, with no insult intended behind it--why do you even care about this? The game can still be bought online, still has English menus and voice acting, and will still play in your Exbone. The only way your ability to play this game has been hampered in the slightest is that you have to buy it from Amazon instead of Game Stop, and the odds say you weren't going to go to Game Stop anyway, so what specifically is the harm that has been done to you? I ask because it's very hard for me to comprehend what benefit you're getting from being angry here, unless the benefit is just the enjoyment you take in feeling morally superior to your enemies.

 

[Furnicula]

If so many people want Dead or Alive, Furnicula, then were is the vocal call of support? You blame the company's choice not to publish the game on the vocal detractors, but don't you think that's a bit like someone who didn't vote blaming the opposing party for their policies? Why is it that your opponents have a greater duty to be silent than you have to speak up? Because let me tell you, if the solution you find to this or any problem in life is to try to control the behaviors of anyone other than yourself, then you are going to live a very frustrated existence.

Did you read the article I posted? http://nichegamer.com/2015/06/dead-or-alive-5-sells-1-5-million-worldwide-f2p-downloads-over-3-5-million/

There are millions of people interested in these games, millions. Meanwhile games that the collective "gaming press" deems to push and even appeared at the VGAs are "enjoyed" by at most a few thousand like Sunset or Cibele, and even that only with the help of Indie Bundles: http://steamspy.com/app/287600 http://steamspy.com/app/408120

http://nichegamer.com/2015/06/sunset-developer-to-stop-making-games-following-commercial-failure/

It's not really my or anyone's fault that the majority of gaming publications like Polygon, Kotaku, Rock Paper Shotgun, EuroGamer, GamesIndustry.biz, GamaSutra and lately even GameSpot or IGN are increasingly populated by insular Social Justice-hipsters from specific parts of the world and they somehow deem to speak for the Western audience of gamers.

There's been plenty of "discussion" about this, thankfully, finally, some of the videos I posted above amongst them, as well as a lot of Digital ink:

http://playeressence.com/dead-or-alive-xtreme-3-isnt-coming-to-the-west-because-of-social-justice-warriors/

http://techraptor.net/content/koei-tecmo-and-world-respond-to-dead-or-alive-xtreme-3-controversy

http://techraptor.net/content/dead-alive-xtreme-3-controversy-mean-west

http://nichegamer.com/2015/12/koei-tecmo-needs-to-stop-being-afraid-of-prudish-censor-happy-westerners/

https://www.sankakucomplex.com/2015/11/26/feminists-deny-dead-or-alive-xtreme-3-western-release/

http://www.therebel.media/if_no_one_defends_bad_games_like_doa_x3_the_sjw_censors_have_won

http://www.cgmagonline.com/articles/news/itagaki-responds-to-no-dead-or-alive-xtreme-3-in-the-west/

https://www.lewdgamer.com/2015/11/25/14671/

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2015/11/25/best-boycott-ever-dead-or-alive-xtreme-3-more-popular-than-ever/

As you can see, it's not from "mainstream gaming publications", which had the perplexing reaction of defending the censorship of the game outright or trying to downplay it. Meanwhile it was a very popular subject in a lot of gaming communities and Play-Asia got a lot of business (DoAX3 is still trending in almost every sales category on their page): http://www.play-asia.com/ as well as support increasing their Twitter followers by over 20.000: https://twitter.com/playasia/ simply for standing up and against censorship and to hit back against the "boycott" that the puritans over at NeoGAF and some "gaming journalists" of said mainstream press planned: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1145618

And as long as I'm asking questions, I must ask--and this is a totally serious question, with no insult intended behind it--why do you even care about this? The game can still be bought online, still has English menus and voice acting, and will still play in your Exbone. The only way your ability to play this game has been hampered in the slightest is that you have to buy it from Amazon instead of Game Stop, and the odds say you weren't going to go to Game Stop anyway, so what specifically is the harm that has been done to you? I ask because it's very hard for me to comprehend what benefit you're getting from being angry here, unless the benefit is just the enjoyment you take in feeling morally superior to your enemies.

I can't think of any situation in which I'd be against free expression and free speech or be for censoring a product or refusing to release it in specific regions due to moral puritanism. It's like asking why I'd care when they're trying to ban "obscene words" from song lyrics or books: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ISil7IHzxc http://www.rjgeib.com/thoughts/451/451.html or when they're trying to demonize games like D&D as the spawn of Satan: http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.ASP or games like Counter Strike for promoting violence: http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2007/04/dont_shoot.html or games like Bulletstorm supposedly leading to rape or the "Mass Effect Sex scandal": http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/107628-Fox-News-Says-Bulletstorm-Could-Make-You-a-Rapist

When the militant religious right and Fox News attacked all these "gaming journalists" and publications stood by us, now that it comes from the left they seem to have left their spot of defending the industry and instead joined them: http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/02/09/will-bulletstorm-murder-your-children-no/

Why wouldn't I stand behind products that moral authoritarians are trying to censor, ban or not have released at all? Why wouldn't the collective gaming press, like Polygon or Kotaku who also defended the ban of GTA V in major retailers in Australia: https://archive.is/OrXG0 https://archive.is/3SgLn ? Do you think they have the best interests of gaming in mind if they defend the ban or censorship of games that millions of people enjoy?

Further, this paragraph is full of mistakes... for one you state that you don't intend any insult, why would you need to write this up if you didn't? Another thing is that it can only be imported Online from retailers around the world and costs at least 20-30% extra, why would anyone want to pay surcharge to satisfy the disposition of moral authoritarians? The game also releases on SONY platforms (PlayStation 4 and Vita) and not "Exbone", it doesn't have English voice acting, a thing that a VA even pointed out, and I cite: https://archive.is/jfnU1

Don't let your feminist ideals get it in the way of my income

Funny thing that, an action by a group that constantly repeats they want more women to work in the gaming industry, actually takes work away from them by effecting a ban on a game starring only women.

Amazon is also not going to sell it, you will have to import it from Hong Kong or China. Frankly the question you should ask yourself is what benefit you get from being angry about games with attractive female characters that hundreds of thousands to millions of other people enjoy, and how it makes you morally superior if they don't come out. What satisfaction could this possibly give you, you aren't "improving the world", you are just censoring certain products.

It also has a trickle down effect on other games, see for instance: http://operationrainfall.com/2015/12/04/interview-haru-akenaga-masashiro-yamamoto/

They couldn't state it any clearer than this that they believe that the "West" (Polygon, Kotaku, RPS, EuroGamer journalists mostly) has a problem with their games:

In recent video game news Team Ninja PR has announced that they are not planning on releasing Dead or Alive Xtreme 3 here due to how the sexualization of women in video games is viewed in the West. Does this issue ever affect your process of choosing which games will be released in the West?

Haru ? That?s honestly their decision, but yes, sadly, it has stopped us from localizing certain Compile Heart games. We don?t want to censor anymore because we know that?s not true to the original developed art.

Moe Chronicles was released with English subs in Asia. Will we start seeing English releases in Asia more often?

Haru ?That?s actually Compile Heart Asia?s decision, not really ours. We could start seeing that more in Asia, but maybe we should do something to change in the West in the future. Anyway, we just don?t want to censor anymore.

 

[Atmos Duality]

Ah, but of course, I guess we don't care about that because those people make acceptable targets. Yep.

So by your logic, when people act like political assholes, I shouldn't use the term that describes political assholes?
Gotcha.

it makes me think of the phrase "no bad tactics, only bad targets" for some reason. Can't really place why though.

Neither can I. Let me know when you have something of substance to discuss.

 

[JimB]

If so many people want Dead or Alive, Furnicula, then were is the vocal call of support? You blame the company's choice not to publish the game on the vocal detractors, but don't you think that's a bit like someone who didn't vote blaming the opposing party for their policies? Why is it that your opponents have a greater duty to be silent than you have to speak up? Because let me tell you, if the solution you find to this or any problem in life is to try to control the behaviors of anyone other than yourself, then you are going to live a very frustrated existence.

Did you read the article I posted?

That's not quite what I'm asking, though. Your argument, as best I understand it, is that the noise generated by detractors overpowers the noise generated by supporters. So why is it that the supporters are being so quiet? It seems like a situation in which I am forced to choose between believing a person's words and believing their deeds--in this case, believing that they actively care versus believing the almost-decade of seemingly apathetic silence that has failed to convince Koei Tecmo there's a Western market for this game--so I'm asking you for help to resolve this paradox of apparently overwhelming support nevertheless being drowned out by what you insist is a tiny minority.

I can't think of any situation in which I'd be against free expression and free speech or be for censoring a product or refusing to release it in specific regions due to moral puritanism.

If you define a foreign company choosing to make you use Amazon to get a game you can still play with no extra investment of technology or language instead of spending its money to ship and advertise a product it believes our market can't support as censorship, then I must say, your definition of "censorship" is so broad it's completely useless as a condemnation. By the standard you seem to be espousing, America is censoring McDonald's by not providing a market for the McBaguette that sells so well in Europe (that's a real thing, if you were wondering). I think your definition requires refinement and restriction to be useful as anything other than a buzzword meant to inspire outrage in people who, I will repeat, can still get exactly the same game they would have got if it had been localized to America anyway.

Further, this paragraph is full of mistakes... for one you state that you don't intend any insult, why would you need to write this up if you didn't?

Quite frankly, because as willful as your outrage seems to be, I suspect you are deliberately looking for reasons to be offended, and I wanted to at least make a good faith effort to deny you the chance to do so in order to have a serious, honest conversation.

Sorry, but you did ask.

Another thing is that it can only be imported Online from retailers around the world and costs at least 20-30% extra, why would anyone want to pay surcharge to satisfy the disposition of moral authoritarians?

This is another instance in which I feel forced to choose between word and action. You claim to care, but you don't care twelve bucks worth? The price of two Extra Value Meals is a dealbreaker?

The game also releases on SONY platforms (PlayStation 4 and Vita) and not "Exbone."

My apologies for my mistake, but I must ask, does confusing the name of the systems involved actually detract from the issue, or are you just trying to score points in a battle where no one is keeping count?

It doesn't have English voice acting.

Hm. I heard otherwise, but if you say so.

Frankly the question you should ask yourself is what benefit you get from being angry about games with attractive female characters that hundreds of thousands to millions of other people enjoy, and how it makes you morally superior if they don't come out.

I...don't remember ever saying I'm angry about it. Ever. Like, in my life. Are you still talking to me here, or are you conflating me with some enemy who exists in your head? Because let's be clear, I think the game is trash made to fuel a fetish I don't share and am more than a little squicked by, but anger? Whether you define "anger" as a private and invisible emotion, or (as I do) as a behavior that can be observed by actions, I simply do not care enough to be angry at Dead or Alive.

 

[Barbas]

Forgive me for not quoting the correct post, Furnicula, but the oddest error keeps occurring, where the quote tags for the post you wrote immediately after this one appear in the Reply box when I reply to your post, but no text appears between those tags. I'm going to flag this post for moderator attention in the hopes that it will directed to whomever maintains these forums.

There have been some issues with the forums this week. This sounds like an issue for the Tech Team [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/groups/view/Tech-Team].

 

[Dragonbums]

After reading about this elsewhere it's clear that the whole SJW/feminist thing was a load of bullshit and was nothing more than a ploy to get gamers who seriously believe that crap to shell out preorders.

The truth though is that the DOAX series is a dying franchise because 'surprise surprise' tits and boob physics are hardly enough to keep a game a float.

A lot of ans of the game have said that the volleyball aspect was really fun in the first game, but the subsequent installments have been utter shit so they stopped buying.

Any outrage with feminists or SJW's when the game came out is long gone by now. As it's clear that it's just your average boobers game.

It's just shitty sales. The public reception of any game is probably the least biggest factor in whether or not a game should be released in any region. Unless of course it's extremely tasteles, racist, and/or incites violence towards specific ethnic groups, sexuality and religion.


They have shit sales. No one here is really buying them anymore. And the only way they felt they can bolster sales is come up with some bullshit.

 

[Furnicula]

That's not quite what I'm asking, though. Your argument, as best I understand it, is that the noise generated by detractors overpowers the noise generated by supporters. So why is it that the supporters are being so quiet? It seems like a situation in which I am forced to choose between believing a person's words and believing their deeds--in this case, believing that they actively care versus believing the almost-decade of seemingly apathetic silence that has failed to convince Koei Tecmo there's a Western market for this game--so I'm asking you for help to resolve this paradox of apparently overwhelming support nevertheless being drowned out by what you insist is a tiny minority.

If you define a foreign company choosing to make you use Amazon to get a game you can still play with no extra investment of technology or language instead of spending its money to ship and advertise a product it believes our market can't support as censorship, then I must say, your definition of "censorship" is so broad it's completely useless as a condemnation. By the standard you seem to be espousing, America is censoring McDonald's by not providing a market for the McBaguette that sells so well in Europe (that's a real thing, if you were wondering). I think your definition requires refinement and restriction to be useful as anything other than a buzzword meant to inspire outrage in people who, I will repeat, can still get exactly the same game they would have got if it had been localized to America anyway.

My argument is that the "noise" comes from people employed at magazines like Polygon, Kotaku, Rock Paper Shotgun, EuroGamer, GamesIndustry.biz, GamaSutra and lately even GameSpot or IGN. I thought I made that rather clear. These are a few hundred people, most of them part of an insular community of friends in three different cities and they're pretending to speak for millions, nay billions of gamers around the world: http://www.newzoo.com/in-the-press/global-games-market-grow-6-percent-70-4-billion-newzoo/

97% of them don't even read any kind of "gaming journalism", even the ESA said so:

Yet gaming companies (especially those not familiar with said activist tactics) are led to believe they are some sort of spokespeople and have something important to say. Why they don't "get heard" is rather simple, because they're not the few hundred people, most of them part of said insular community that controls these outlets, but this has increasingly started to change in the last year and said group of people don't like it one bit.

As for the second part, I thought we were already through this, there are millions of people interested in "Dead or Alive", there were hundreds of thousands that bought DoAX1+2, most of them in the West: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/jump/7.885605.22357870

Said games were considered a commercial success given their budget, or there wouldn't be any sequels since producing games kind of costs money. Koei Tecmo has also released far more niche games in the West before, and aside from that a Team Ninja CM plainly stated the reason, which you chose to ignore.

Your argument simply doesn't make any sense, it's a phantom that you made up to play to your bias and deny the reality of the situation.

And my definition of censorship (that a bunch of authoritarian busybodies are throwing a fit because something is "offensive" and they don't want other people to enjoy it) is perfectly in-line with every definition of it you will find in . I still don't know why you keep coming back to Amazon though, since Amazon doesn't have anything to do with this and doesn't even sell DoAX3.

See for instance: https://www.aclu.org/what-censorship?redirect=free-speech/what-censorship

http://venturebeat.com/2014/12/17/anti-censorship-group-sees-apples-steams-control-over-expression-in-apps-and-games-as-dangerous/

Quite frankly, because as willful as your outrage seems to be, I suspect you are deliberately looking for reasons to be offended, and I wanted to at least make a good faith effort to deny you the chance to do so in order to have a serious, honest conversation.

This is "quite frankly" hilarious, considering you talk about "willful outrage" and "reasons to be offended" given that the group of people you are covering for and defend could as well be called "The Outragers".

This is another instance in which I feel forced to choose between word and action. You claim to care, but you don't care twelve bucks worth? The price of two Extra Value Meals is a dealbreaker?

This isn't what the argument is about and you're misrepresenting it, aside from that nobody should have to pay costly import fees because people were offended over Digital breasts, no.

My apologies for my mistake, but I must ask, does confusing the name of the systems involved actually detract from the issue, or are you just trying to score points in a battle where no one is keeping count?

Just pointing out all the issues you are seemingly misinformed in, while you echo Jim Sterling. If you get so many things wrong in so few sentences, maybe it would behoove you to rethink if your argument isn't equally flawed?

I...don't remember ever saying I'm angry about it. Ever. Like, in my life. Are you still talking to me here, or are you conflating me with some enemy who exists in your head? Because let's be clear, I think the game is trash made to fuel a fetish I don't share and am more than a little squicked by, but anger? Whether you define "anger" as a private and invisible emotion, or (as I do) as a behavior that can be observed by actions, I simply do not care enough to be angry at Dead or Alive.

Oh, but it's as simple as checking Post history to find out otherwise, and see for what team you are batting. And after all why would you be here downplaying and arguing for censorship and against other people enjoying the things you don't like otherwise and trying to convince others that there's "no market" for a franchise that numbers in the millions of sales and sold hundreds of thousands of copies and got several sequels due to the copies it sold in the West?