http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?t=764382VanityGirl said:
is original source.
L4D2 Boycott Closing Down
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
- Start date
is original source.
My apologies I linked to the old version,jonmcnamara said:
http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/showthread.php?p=8794262
is the updated one.
My favorite part about that Auto Shotgun, is that it has INFINITE penetration against the horde, where as the M16 only penetrates 2 zombies. In other words if you fire 1 bullet from the m16 after 2 zombies it wont kill anymore, the shotguns goes through every zombie with one shot.
It is a good thing this balance is so well done.
I wont be buying L4D2. But only because I live in a stupid assed country who thinks that it is a great idea to leave all game classification decisions up to one prat in SA who seems to think that there is no need for an 18+ rating for games because then children will play them. So L4D2 will be released here with alot of stuff missing from the game in a nice happy toned down kind of way. I want to play L4D2, NOT Left 4 KidsSafeVersion 2!
I haven't seen that episode of the Colbert Report in a long time. As for the rest of your post, I honestly had no idea all that was going on. I don't really get into Valve that much. If I did, I wouldn't have been that blunt about it, but I probably would have said something along those lines. I must admit, you summed up your side very well.AceDiamond said:-BIG snip, except for the pic-
Rage mode - ENGAGED!
1) WHY THE HELL SHOULD THEY CHANGE FOR YOU? Because you don't like something, therefore it has to change right now, at once? Or else what, you gonna cry?
2) WHY VALVE WOULD CARE ABOUT A SINGLE, WHINING CUSTOMER? They've got hordes of people like you, and you really think that your lone wolf boycott will do anything? You think that they will lose money on this? How about "nothing", like "nothing" of value was lost.
3) WHAT DID YOU EXPECT? Because Valve actually listens to their customers, unlike some other developers(YES EA, I AM POINTING AT YOU), doesn't mean they will do everything they will be told to do. Like turning a game, that was made by a 100+ experienced staff, into something that came from a teenangsty's mind.
4) IF YOU WERE A LOYAL CUSTOMER, THEN HOW THE HELL YOU TURNED YOUR BACK BECAUSE OF A SINGLE THING, THAT VALVE DID, AT IT WASN'T WHAT YOU WANTED? This is not what is considered "being loyal". It is about accepting decisions that you may not like, from someone whom you like(or at least you are afraid of, but that's not the case this time).
What is the actual reason of your boycott anyway?
Okay, i'll put it in bold so that anyone (and hopefully yourself)could read it.jonmcnamara said:
1) WHY THE HELL SHOULD THEY CHANGE FOR YOU? Because you don't like something, therefore it has to change right now, at once? Or else what, you gonna cry?
2) WHY VALVE WOULD CARE ABOUT A SINGLE, WHINING CUSTOMER? They've got hordes of people like you, and you really think that your lone wolf boycott will do anything? You think that they will lose money on this? How about "nothing", like "nothing" of value was lost.
3) WHAT DID YOU EXPECT? Because Valve actually listens to their customers, unlike some other developers(YES EA, I AM POINTING AT YOU), doesn't mean they will do everything they will be told to do. Like turning a game, that was made by a 100+ experienced staff, into something that came from a teenangsty's mind.
4) IF YOU WERE A LOYAL CUSTOMER, THEN HOW THE HELL YOU TURNED YOUR BACK BECAUSE OF A SINGLE THING, THAT VALVE DID, AT IT WASN'T WHAT YOU WANTED? This is not what is considered "being loyal". It is about accepting decisions that you may not like, from someone whom you like(or at least you are afraid of, but that's not the case this time).
What is the actual reason of your boycott anyway?
Whatever. I'm just waiting on L4D2 to come out on PC after I stupidly bought the first one on 360 and missed out on free DLC and Mod tools...
I just don't get why everyone is so quick to throw it back in their faces that they "failed". Why do you care if you weren't one of the people boycotting? Let them do their thing, you know? It's not exactly taking the high road by pointing and laughing and saying "I told you so!", yet people are all too quick to call the boycotters childish. Smells like a double standard.
At least they tried to do something. Yes, I would have rather seen a group this large protesting unfair pricing and regional bans, but maybe this is a good start for gamers to realize that in numbers, they can get noticed for whatever cause they choose to take up. Let's just hope in the future, it's over more important issues than DLC.
At least they tried to do something. Yes, I would have rather seen a group this large protesting unfair pricing and regional bans, but maybe this is a good start for gamers to realize that in numbers, they can get noticed for whatever cause they choose to take up. Let's just hope in the future, it's over more important issues than DLC.
Yeah, I'm with VanityGirl here, you're going to have to explain your statistics a bit more. Does it take into account reload times? Is this assuming that all of the tracers hit the intended target (well, I'm assuming it uses tracers since TF2 does - clarification is necessary here too, how the cone of fire works)? Even so, the autoshotty has some interesting properties that make it difficult to gauge against the other weapons, namely if you run the clip dry you have to chamber your next shot. Furthermore, is this assuming a stable position or a moving position, and how does this affect the damage spread?jonmcnamara said:
Lastly, if those numbers are accurate, it takes less than one second of concentrated fire to kill anything but a tank, in which case the additional damage afforded by the gun is irrelevant overkill numbers, unless we make a distinction as far as rate of fire is concerned (that is to say, if one bullet will kill a common, then the damage the bullets do is irrelevant, it's the number of bullets that matter).
The autoshotty is also much more dangerous as far as friendly fire is concerned...which I suppose only really matters on Expert campaign mode. But it really hurts on Expert.
Honestly, I find the AR to be more effective against commons and special infected, so long as the team isn't running (such as: taking out a smoker in a high position; defending against a horde) namely because it's a lot easier to get headshots with it, which will pop specials real quick.
That said, the autoshotty is better for run and gun tactics, which is admittedly terribly effective. In a Versus mode at that point, it's the boomer/smoker's job to try their best to stall the survivors; a couple good hits will throw a roadblock in their way. And while it seems like all of the momentum is behind the survivors, it really doesn't take a whole lot to tip the balance.
All in all, I don't feel that the game is unbalanced, but at the same time I don't play with the general public (most of the time). My advice is to find a community (possibly with a modded server) that lets you play the game you want to play.
I can't believe the number of people who just seem jealous and put out that people they see as "whiners" got to play the game early. Their premise was not "give us a vacation or we won't buy your game", it was "support the community that supports you". It was Valve who saw fit to invite them to their headquarters, not the other way around, which obviously means that Valve saw the global benefit in doing so, it was not just a cop-out bribe on their part.
The people who started the boycott ultimately achieved two things: a trip to Valve and TWO BETTER GAMES FOR EVERYONE. How can you all be so angry ?
More developers should take serious note of what fans say to begin with, then this kind of thing wouldn't even need to happen, and then maybe Peter Molyneux will go back to making good games.
The people who started the boycott ultimately achieved two things: a trip to Valve and TWO BETTER GAMES FOR EVERYONE. How can you all be so angry ?
More developers should take serious note of what fans say to begin with, then this kind of thing wouldn't even need to happen, and then maybe Peter Molyneux will go back to making good games.
If angry is the proper term, it's just because these people are trying to take credit on "making a difference" when they didn't. No one in their right minds are going to believe that Valve crushed under pressure from the boycott. Valve was already doing what the boycotters were screaming about before they started screaming. Because Valve even acknowledged their presence, the group is calling it a victory, but Valve's trip was just a simple gesture aimed at shutting them up. The most the boycott did was flare up trolling posts around various forums. It was pointless.veryboringfact said:
It isnt just for me, anyone who has played the first game knows the fucking balance is messed up. And its not an instant change it want, we have been waiting for a year for some of the fixes they havent gotten around to because they are too busy? Fuck that noise.Doktor Merkwurdigliebe said:
Why should valve care? Because they should care about losing customers. Just because I am not willing to throw my money at them like you appear to be willing to. I have bought almost every game they produced until they pulled this shit, and now I am not going to anymore. Do I think my lone boycot will do anything? Yes I do. I actively discourage my friends from buying the game, they have lost customers due to bad word of mouth, my friends are also pissed off. The boycott has 40k people in it, and surely there are those that are not signed up. They cant keep pulling this type of shit and expect to keep their customers. They are only popular because of the way they USED TO do things.Doktor Merkwurdigliebe said:
I expected a game that is moderately fucking balanced when it comes to gameplay! Left for Dead isnt even CLOSE. There are exploits EVERYWHERE, ways to cheat all over the place, a weapon that is so overpowered no one uses anything other than it. Surely one of the 100s of experienced staff should have looked at this game and thought "wow the autoshotgun is overpowered" or "wow the witch sure does bug out alot if you throw a tov on her" or "wow maybe the tanks shouldn't spawn in front of a minigun on fire" or "wow the smoker tongue seems to go in any direction but where you shoot it" or ANY of the other fucking problems this game has. SURELY IT ISNT ANGSTY TO EXPECT A GAME TO BE MORE BALANCED A YEAR AFTER RELEASE THAN WHEN IT WAS RELEASED. But fuck it right? I should just throw my money at them unthinkingly. Do you happen to own an Xbox? Microsoft pulls this shit all the time, perhaps you are used to it?Doktor Merkwurdigliebe said:
It isnt a single thing, they have been screwing up constantly since this game was released. Remember how crash course was supposed to be big content released in Sept? I do, I also remember how despite waiting until the 2nd to last day of the month the release was a DISASTER THAT FUCKED UP THE ENTIRE GAME. They broke item spawns, released a campaign that is barely on par with USER CREATED maps. Go play Death Aboard! that is a fucking add on. The balancing is as fucked as the day it was released.Doktor Merkwurdigliebe said:
Is anyone else still waiting on Episode 3 like I am? Remember how those were going to be frequent releases?
Valve used to put out great games, with fantastic balance, that were worth the money. Counterstrike is still played and is fanastic. HL2 DM was great as well. This game is an unbalanced piece of trash that Valve has given up on to ringe more money out of us. Do you see a discount for those of us who got the first game?
How can you justify buying the 2nd game after how rocky this game has gone? You are seriously willing to spend another 50 bucks on the chance that one "might be good"? If any company pulled the shit that Valve has been doing I would boycott them. I am not going to pay for another product from a company that has given me shit until i see they have changed.Doktor Merkwurdigliebe said:
Fuck man, I cant wait to see how the infected are going to spawn in a way that is balanced.
As a member of the boycott group, I applaud the organizers for the classy way they ran this, and for the classy way they bow off-stage.
Oh, so apparently zombies only come out at night? You don't play as Will Smith in L4D2, do you?hazabaza1 said:
I thought not.
I personally like L4D and I do want to see more DLC for it, but Valve have made it clear that they'll continue to support it and are using a different team to work on DLC for L4D to the one working on L4D2. It's like people complain that Valve aren't bothering to work on HL2 Episode 3, because they're focusing on L4D2, but I have to ask myself, do these complainers and whingers actually know anything about the behind the scenes work done at game developers? They'll have a different team working on Episode 3, so L4D2 development will have absolutely no effect (or minimal, at least) on the development of Episode 3. As I recall, that was one of the reasons the boycott started, and the visit to Valve helped cure that little misunderstanding, at least.
I agree with Agent of Chaos and Walking_Target though, they have definitely made a big step in improving relations and communication between gamers and developers. A lot of game developers are, naturally, gamers themselves, but they don't necessarily have the same interests as the general gaming community (bearing in mind that everyone will, of course, have different opinions anyway). Hence greater communication between gamers and developers, especially at the early stages of design proposals and such, can only be a good thing. And the boycotters managed to achieve this. So although I was against the boycott from the start, there's no denying it has done some good work, so I say, well done to them
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