Lawsuit Blames Oblivion For Pilot's Seizure

[electronicgoat]

There has got to be a flashy bit in Oblivion. Maybe it's some mod or something?

 

[Therumancer]

Well, I will say that I'd need to see all the details of the case before I could make a desician on how reasonable this is or not.

There is a common belief that a EULA, TOS agreement, or warning label absolves the maker of a product from all liability in regards to whatever is mentioned. A lot of things factor into it, ranging from whether a warning was visible when money changed hands, to the nature of the warning and the danger being mentioned.

A good example of this would be how when you buy a video game, some of them include pamphlets with a warning saying you should rest 30 minutes for every hour played or
something similar, this being there so if challenged a game company can claim "well your responsible for your own problem due to having ignored the warnings". Contract law is a touchy thing, and the feasibility of such demands, as well as their accessibility, and even how they are written can play into whether such a thing can actually be considered legally binding.

One old joke about video games is that if one was to take some of the more insane usage requirements and warnings seriously, these products would never have been approved for the marketplace. An entertainment product that requires 30 minutes rest for every hour played or something like that would probably be considered dangerous enough if the goverment ever felt that was accurate to require a user liscence, if it wouldn't just flat out be declared a controlled substance. Especially if you start getting into the addiction factor of video games which has been documented for many years now... and I'm sure anyone on this site has sat down to game and lost track of time. Heck, game reviewes present this kind of thing in a positive light when pimping games.

The point being that such arguements could be turned around on the person making them by a lawyer who was attacking from the right direction by asking if they ever made such a danger from usage they were apparently aware of to the goverment before putting this on the market, and things of a similar vein... but that's neither here nor there.

When it comes to Epilepsy, certain levels of light and so on are FAR more likely to cause it than others. As I understand the arguement, the light being put out here probably exceeds what a general "blanket" warning is going to cover. Sort of like how a blanket warning didn't exactly prevent a certain infamous episode of Pokemon being pulled, as it's simply unsafe to put out there even under a warning.

Really, a lot of this comes down to whether that version of Oblivion REALLY puts out that kind of effect. I sure as heck don't remember anything close to what hes saying.

I'll also say that despite many products including blanket warnings on the packaging, I checked both the STEAM store page, and the box of my physical copy of Oblivion (an old Collector's edition) and honestly I see absolutly nothing in the way of an epilepsy warning, although I haven't seen PS-3 packaging. Honestly if there is such a risk, I don't think it's going to take a biased judge to nail Bethesda here because I don't think there was any such warning that was clearly visible before money changed hands for the game.

... but then again, having played the game, I think the guy is full of it, because I honestly don't believe this game could have done that to begin with. I suspect he's groping for a law suit. If there was a problem with this game having a chance to bring on seizures like he's talking about, we probably would have heard about it before now. Things that are serious seizure risks typically wind up leaving behind a reasonably large trail of "carnage". I'm thinking of things like the infamous "killer Pokemon episode" here.

All PS3 game manuals seem to ave the exact same first page with warnings. Literally the exact same, it seems uniform. I don't own Oblivion on PS3 so I may be wrong. But if you have a PS3 I suggest looking at the manuals. All the ones I have come with the same warnings.

Oh, okay, that explains my misunderstanding.

If it's in the game manual, no wonder he found a lawyer for this so easily. If that's going to be the cornerstone of the defense made by Bethesda, they are going to get pounded if he can prove that the game caused it. Reading the manual is hardly mandatory, especially when dealing with games with tutorials, and even so if the warning isn't on the box it's kind of meaningless since money changed hands before he could even have seen the warning.

The tricky aspect is to prove he had the seizure because of the game, unless something can be found in that game that could bring on a seizure and I can't think of one case with that kind of a light effect.

I kind of like Bethesda and it's RPGs, even if I don't care for them reducing the complexity further and further with each new one, so I actually do wish them luck here though.

 

[Katana314]

I understand the warning in the manual, but I think it's a different issue if these are lights specifically related to the game that could have been changed, ie a flashy spell ability.

Game developers really need to step up their awareness of handicapped issues, as this is not the first time a game has been an intensely poor experience to a handicapped person who is normally able to play games fine. Many PC ports don't allow perfect key-rebinding, something essential to people who play using alternate controllers modified for their deficiencies.

 

[Nannernade]

Throws it out on the fact that nobody reads it? That's bull shit, the fact that it was presented means the warning was provided. If I was a judge I'd throw that out right on the spot.

Even if the video isn't posted this clip is the perfect sum up.

http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/382786/you-didnt-read-it

 

[captaincabbage]

If I may ask, where in Oblivion are you "strobed"?

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Of course it's entirely possible the guy didn't know he was epileptic or even isn't epileptic... Couple of different ways you can induce grand mal seizures in people without epilepsy (but the best way, of course, involves using lasers).

Honestly, it's extremely unlikely you'll not have had them since puberty or before. The only way you'll get them in later life is from taking some serious drugs (whether prescribed or not)

I should have been a bit more clear... there are several ways to induce a seizure in people without epilepsy which is, for all intents and purposes, indiscernible from a Grand Mal seizure. Of course, it's almost impossible to manage it by accident.

Of course there is also the issue of para-epileptic conditions which are a pain in the cock to chase down info on.

The fastest blackout is usually the insulin crash in diabetes. But if he has that, then Oblivion did him a favour he can never repay.

 

[gideonkain]

Every video game I buy tells me it might cause seizures.

I don't see much of a case here.

 

[Skratt]

Yeah, in modern games, the warning is on page 1 of the manual.

I remember that Lucasarts (I think) had the warnings come up on the screen before the game, and you couldn't skip it.

Yeah but nobody wants to be like lucasarts


OT: it's a shame but do they really need to strip him of his flying credentials?

If flashing lights cause him to seize, yes. Yes they do.

 

[Skratt]

Ignorance of the law is no excuse just as ignorance of the risks is no excuse. He chose not to read the warnings, he has to deal with the outcome. Thats like peeing on a sign that says "Danger! High Voltage" then wondering why your junk hurts.

Yeah, that wasn't a whole lot of fun the first time I figured that out. I still punched my friend for daring me to do it. Apparently he'd already tried it and knew what would happen.

 

[Baresark]

Haha, a few interesting facts for people who actually read these comments.

Epilepsy effects less than 1% of the US population. That number is around 300 Thousand. Now, people who suffer from photosensitive seizures only constitute 5% of that number. This guy is special in a very bad way.

Edit: I just re-read my own comment and discovered that I am special in a very bad way.

 

[CPUburrito]

How can someone be this stupid and be alive at the same time?

 

[Jack Macaque]

Nothing new lol you see stuff like this everyday.

Perhaps it's true, or perhaps he's relapsing from all those drugs in college (haha no).

 

[A Weary Exile]

Of all the games that would give him a seizure it was Oblivion? Oblivion's pretty mellow most of the time, even the action isn't that intense visually, I can't even begin to think of what might cause someone to seize up while playing it.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

I hate people like this.

No, I really do hate them. They cannot take responsibility, so they blame someone else. ?Wahhhh, I got a seizure, I blame the makers of this videogame. I don?t care that they warned me.? And it is because of this that companies must make EULAs longer to cover stupid things.

I zero sympathy for this guy.

 

[thedeathscythe]

Ha. Haha. HAHAHA! Oh man, he's going up against some big companies, Sony can reach courts fast when they want to, but they can also stall for decades. I look forward to seeing his disappointed face in 20 years or so when he finally loses this useless lawsuit.

 

[Saelune]

Yeah, in modern games, the warning is on page 1 of the manual.

I remember that Lucasarts (I think) had the warnings come up on the screen before the game, and you couldn't skip it.

Which is why he wont win. He legally cant.

 

[jurnag12]

Strobe effects? Where, pray tell, were those exactly? I've poured plenty of time into the game and I've NEVER seen strobe effects. anywhere. EVER.
Also, 'This game is dangerous and defective'. So WHY exactly haven't we heard of any other cases of this? Oh yeah, BECAUSE THEY READ THE FRIGGIN' MANUAL.
And yeah, this guy is fighting for the US, great representation of the country, folks.

 

[Om Nom Nom]

Bethesda's response should be this: "Our game induced a seizure? And you're a pilot? Sir, we just potentially, indirectly saved your life."

Oh, and that the warnings are already everywhere, his case has no ground to stand on. He's just looking for somewhere to lay the blame for hiding (or plain not being aware of) an epileptic condition that got him booted from the navy.

This literally is no different to someone discovering they have a severe allergic reaction to peanuts, and then trying to sue the company that produced said peanuts... it's ridiculous.

 

[The_Yeti]

They should be thanking the developer for this. Games don't cause conditions, they trigger them. How he got past flight screening without his condition being known, I'll never know, but he certainly shouldn't have been flying.

1000 x This.

A seizure prone man is not fit to be a pilot, his ignorance to oblivions warnings and trying to pin loss of job on them is outright stupidity.

Yo McLaughlin, you lost your job because your brain is a candy-ass when it comes to processing strobe-flash, not because your ps3 played oblivion well enough to give that visual excitement.

 

[Eleima]

"Hyper-litigious culture" indeed... If he was so concerned about how fast the light strobes or whatever, why was he playing the game in the first place? Also, you don't have seizures unless you've been playing in poor conditions, or unless you had a pre-existing condition. Something stinks...