Let's Not Ban RapeLay

[PoliceBox63]

It's boils down to censorship is wrong. Period. The age rating safeguard is there for a reason. A video I saw about RapeLay (I think it was on here :. ) with parents in the street going "wah what if my kid played this?" Obviously it won't because the game wouldn't be available to the under-18 market. Now we all know over-18 games get into the hands of 8 year olds but that's the responsibility of the seller/parent. In an ideal world freedom of speech and all that jazz should be unconstrained. Banning this is pointless because what good will it do? The rape crisis groups speaking out about it "it's not a light issue... there are many consequences..." all that shit, ya okay but it's a video game. Just like all the games with murder and violence and war, they don't make people kill. Just like Rapelay won't make people rape.

 

[Altorin]

Rape is pretty much the most horrible thing one human can do to another.

So...By that logic: Rape > Holocaust

You might notice eye said pretty much. not literally and plus i said that incorrectly i meant to say "one individual can do to another"

the argument is still flawed. I'm sure an incredible number of rape victims would still rather be alive at the end of the day then dead. And claiming that just because someone you knew killed themselves because they were raped is anecdotal evidence at best.

Look lets not get into an argument about just how horrible rape is and agree on the fact rape is a horrible sick twisted act and it should not be encouraged for any reason ever at all.

then the argument becomes "does watching rape porn turn you into a rapist", and I say it does not.

To quote Penn Jillette

"You're trying to take away our porn by telling us that rapists are sensitive lovers who are simply misled by fiction?"

Although he was talking about porn in general but he also made this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ACSsUhFk7I

can't watch it in canada, but I think i saw it before it was removed from my country.

Like a year ago.

And if I remember correctly, he was actually answering a question about RapeLay itself

THIS IS OLD NEWS CNN GOD.

"current" events my ass.

 

[daemon37]

I know this has been said before many times but here it goes...

I've seen this game, and a few of the other games by the same company "Illusion". They are all far too anime/cartoonish to take seriously. Not to mention that the cutscenes are ridiculously poor and the stories are laughable. I find nothing terribly offensive about them.

On the other hand, there are legal games that I find very offensive. Fallout 3, Bioshock, Left 4 Dead 2, etc. I'm not going to list them all, but western society clearly doesn't mind extremely graphic depictions of violence. i.e. Cutting people in half with a chainsaw is OK... just as long as their genitals aren't exposed in the process.

 

[breadlord]

Guys, CNN is doing it as a publicity stunt, and the views on their page.

I should say that they are becoming the new Fox News. But I'm trying not to bash anyone. ><

 

[SecondmateFlint]

To be honest, I'm really upset right now. I had never heard of this game. I think it's incredibly wrong and taken a step too far.

I'm not against games with sex scenes in them and whatever, you do what you want and I'll do what I want. And we should not tell Japan what to do, we're not their Mom.

But this is different. This is rape. Rape is not a joke nor should be made to be taken lightly. This is just a simulation to exercise dominance.

And I know games don't "make" people into things but I feel like it might desensitize. I am anti-censorship unless it hurts people. And I feel like this could hurt people who have been raped. Making something so horrific into almost a joke.

I'm sorry, but I can't support this game.

EDIT: I feel rather prudish about this statement but it's how I feel. I do find it ironic though that people can be horribly mutilated in games and those games can pass. I just think this is different. But then again, what makes it different than Manhunt?

Oh what horrible conflicting feelings.

 

[Kouen]

Call me odd... but Yea, Graphics are old and dated nothing good, was only designed for the Japanese market for use in Japan and wasn't intended for outside of Japan till CNN Poked its nose in the first time and there at it again? Urgh..

To be fairly honest what's the point in banning it:

* It will just get more popular because of that
* Take that one out and another will pop up
* seems to tie into the Japanese culture anyway with there love sims n sex sims...

[Edit] To help clarify my point of view.

I Do agree its a terrible ordeal for anyone to go through (Words cant describe it) for ether sex (Yes men do get raped too but its not as reported) but on the other side its also a sexual kink for some people too, to be fair I don't think the game was made to promote the act in the negative fashion that maybe CNN would want you to believe and was made for the latter

 

[Lullabye]

blah blah blah blah rapelay shouldn't be banned blah blah blah blah
That's my opinion. Oh, and feel free to replace any blah with a well thought out and logical argument.

 

[Credge]

I'm anti-censorship and anti-lazy-high-profile-news-outlets-looking-for-a-cheap-bit-of-scandal-and-controversy, however, a line must be drawn somewhere.

Then you are not anti-censorship.

 

[Credge]

I'm anti-censorship and anti-lazy-high-profile-news-outlets-looking-for-a-cheap-bit-of-scandal-and-controversy, however, a line must be drawn somewhere.

Then you are not anti-censorship.

 

[fatalXception]

To be honest, I'm really upset right now. I had never heard of this game. I think it's incredibly wrong and taken a step too far.

....

I'm sorry, but I can't support this game.

EDIT: I feel rather prudish about this statement but it's how I feel. I do find it ironic though that people can be horribly mutilated in games and those games can pass. I just think this is different. But then again, what makes it different than Manhunt?

Oh what horrible conflicting feelings.

Don't feel prudish, I think you are dead right.
I actually cannot believe the amount of people on this forum who believe that this should not be censored.

Now don't get me wrong; I play plenty of violent video games, watch lots of gross movies and read a lot of "horrible" stuff. Watched plenty of porn.And I'm not here saying that this particular game will turn people into rapists and all that kind of pop-psychology.

But ask yourself; what kind of person wants to actually play a game like this? Are you seriously going to be happy to have them living next door? Arguing that it should be allowed to exist, and that people should be allowed to consume it, is the same argument that would allow a child porn simulator to be legal.
Would you put up with a neighbour who called around every evening to explain why all Jews should be burned alive? Would you actually, honestly just shrug your shoulders and say "oh well, he has a right to free speech"?

Suppose the game was called "****** lyncher" or "homo basher" and had content to match the title - would you all be defending it then?

Would Mr. Chalk have written an article entitled "Let's not ban Baby in a Microwave Simulator"?
He writes
"We live in a mature and responsible society in which adults have the right to choose for themselves: What they watch, what they read, what they listen to, and yes, what they play. It's one of the most fundamental principles of our freedom;"

which is simply not true. If you really believe that you live in a "mature and responsible" society, why is there so much crime in your cities?

Please let's leave aside all these naieve notions that Censorship is always bad or free speech is a moral right that trumps all other rights, because, it doesn't.
Remember; you only have this "right" because someone long dead put it in your constitution, or whatever equivalent you have in your corner of the world.
Do you really believe they put it in there so that sick, twisted ideas could be freely propagated throughout society? Every declaration of the right to the freedom of speech/expression that I know of, in any country, makes it very clear that this so-called "freedom" is limited by an "offence principal" which is there to protect it's society by refusing this freedom to ideas that offend the majority of said society.

Now you can claim a moral high-ground insead of a legal one, and insist that you have a moral right to read, write, watch, play, or otherwise express or consume anything you want, but that begs the question - at what point does the morality of that stance contradict the morality of the content you are defending?

 

[masterpain22]

This is my take on this issue
I am against the ban and will try to explain why, but before that I'm against how people make an opinion or decision as definite as ban something after just getting to know that there is a video game about rape.

It is the same case when news channels go against violent video games. They hear that there is a video game that has killing or blood, and based on that bit on information they go on to make their opinions about it about how that must warp people's minds and promote violence or desensitize the poor little kids, and they usually try to provide some research that no one knows for sure how it was made or how valid it truly is on the big picture of things.

So the first thing that should be done before making or promoting the decision of "That should be banned" is taking the time to think about the effects of such media (if the argument is that the game really makes people more likely to kill or rape, or people enjoy doing it in the game as if it were the real thing), playing or finding a way to go through the game (if I were to say, such movie or book should be banned, my opinion would never be taken seriously if I don't watch it or read it first, and that takes more than the 2 seconds some people took to say that rapelay should be banned), and also have some understanding of the material ( I like the article, and how the writer says at the beginning that 'I have no idea how I got dragged into this. I'm no expert on eroge games, Japanese culture, rape, censorship or anything else related to the game').

Where I'm going with this is like lets think for example about how news channels say shooting people in GTA could have an effect in real life, and they talk about research that has been made. If I'm really interested in that issue, I would also bring to the case that scene in GTA or in Heavy Rain in which you decide whether to kill or not a character that is pleading for his life, in those cases my perception of what was happening was completely different than before, I spared their life but then had no problem shooting more faceless drones that came up afterwards. There are games like InFamous in which I played it through it once as a hero (being as considerate to others, specially innocent characters), and once as a villain (being a complete bastard to everyone), and I did all that in one same game. This shows me that even inside of the world of video games, I treat different characters in different ways, and my perception of them changes, so I would think that my brain would react differently with a real person that it does with a video game character as well. So I would put all that info into my research in order to come up with a more complete result, problem is, you need to know more about video games than what tv journalist do in order to come up with that.

Knowing about video games is just half the issue before making an opinion about this though, the other half is going into how violence or in this case sex or rape is portrayed or at what kind of audience it is aimed for. I cannot go as in deep about it because I haven't played Rapelay or know the psychology behind people's sexual fantasies, but I know that there are consenting adults out there that buy handcuffs and blind folds and all sorts of sexual related stuff to enhance their experience and that is legal as far as I know as long as it is consenting, safe, and part of a game. The scenarios in which some people play might be not much different that representing a rape scene, but acted and made belief. They do it in the privacy of their homes (as in the game) and don't go around doing it to unsuspecting victims, and would probably be offended if someone would insinuate that. Some people would see those activities as weird or crazy, but others would find it natural and that it doesn't harm anyone so there is no need to complain.

So is it weird and crazy to have a game like this? many think so and I could too, but not everyone. Is it different to play a fantasy with a fictional, actress like character (hence sort of consenting because the fictional character was programmed for whats happening in the game) than those who play with real people who like the same?

I just think that those issues should be addressed, and understood, before making an opinion about it, and saying if the game is good or bad and what the effects will be. I'm not into rubber suits for sex so what I do is not look for them and buy them or wear them, instead of saying they should be banned because I think is weird and kids all over the world will try them and turn them into rapists. So I cannot be pro banning Rapelay from what I know about it and unless there is some well though, thorough explanation about it as a game and a sexual device. Oh, and some knowledge about censorship would be good too.

(As for the poster above I think that the sexual fantasy aspect make this different than a "****** lyncher" or "homo basher" game, maybe even above a fighting game or a shooting one, but again we wouldn't know unless someone really goes into the psychology of it).

 

[Inujade]

I agree that most censorship is stupid. But I do think this game should be banned.

Videogames do not "corrupt" you like many think. Someone who plays this game isn't going to become a rapist. Someone who plays GTA IV isn't going to become a crazed murderer. But that's not the point. Videogames are, at their heart, entertainment. Why should this subject matter be entertaining?

Yes, we all play violent games, sometimes because we want to escape into a fantasy world where we can do whatever we want. Sometimes because we're angry, and want to blow off steam. So, blow something up in GTA IV. Revv up God of War and mutilate some beasties. Who blows off steam by simulating raping women? Who's fantasy world is that? Everyone wants to bash in heads sometimes; I don't want to meet the men who want to escape in RapeLay.

Someone here mentioned that Women's Rights groups have stated that games like this "normalize" violence against women. That same person responded with the "they won't become rapists" argument. That's not what they're talking about. They don't mean it'll become everyday practice to go around raping because it was in a game. They mean that the players will cease to see it for how horrible it is in real life. NOT that they wouldn't be horrified by it if it happened to a woman they know, but that they wouldn't make the connection between the two. A few commenters have posted that they played this with friends "just for laughs." The "just for laughs" is what the women's rights groups are worried about.

This is a real problem that happens to real people, men and women. Again, why should this be entertaining?

For the record, I think the books and movies that glorify rape should be banned as well. Yes, there is a double-standard for gaming. That double-standard is partially because games are interactive; it's one thing to watch a porno about rape, and another to act it out. But for the most part that double-standard is unfair. But I don't think the answer should be "we can be as depraved and offensive as everyone else." I think the rules about movies and books should just become stricter.

 

[SonicKoala]

I feel rather conflicted on this issue - yes, games like RapeLay are intended for adults, and thus adults should have the right to choose whether or not they play such a game. Then again, what the game is portraying for the sake of entertainment, to me, is morally repulsive. I'm all for free speech, but who is going to find this garbage "entertaining"? As someone above me mentioned, I'd rather not meet someone who likes to escape into a world where they rape women. There's something wrong about that - then again, I suppose one could argue that anybody who enjoys running people over with cars in GTA is no better - and to that I would say, "fuck, you're kind of right, I suppose".

I suppose that games like GTA have just been around for so long that we simply accept it for what it is - a game, and nothing more. These people aren't really dying in GTA, and the women in RapeLay aren't actually getting raped. Still, it's just my personal opinion that the simulation of women being raped for the sake of entertainment just seems so fundamentally wrong, that I can't help but criticise this game for doing such a thing, and thus I feel it has no place being sold in western society. If they want to sell it in Japan, that's completely fine. There are distinct cultural differences between North America and Japan, and I feel that those should be acknowledged and respected when considering whether or not this game be banned.

 

[likalaruku]

Censorship is bad, therefore I'm opposed, it's Miller time. But then I made the mistake of thinking about it for a minute and it occurred to me that I was being asked to speak out against a ban on a game that was entirely about raping women.

How the hell am I supposed to oppose that?
---------------------------------------------------
Um....demand that Japan be equal & make games where women rape men? (Which would actually sell with highschool girls & old cougars).


Oh well, banning the game would only backfire. Negative publicity increases sales & if it's banned, people will pirate it. & since it was never available outside Japan, people will download it off of torrents for pure curiosity because items of controvery are secret indugendces just waiting to be picked up & anything taboo gets it's own cult following.

 

[Inujade]

Here's another point, while I'm here: In another article by the same guy about the same game, he said that we shouldn't worry about games like this, because no gamer is going to be anything but repulsed by it. I wish I could hold every gamer to that standard of decency, but it simply isn't true. There are horrible, perverse gamers in the Western world, and you can meet them in any MMORPG.

 

[michiehoward]

The whole point is not whether we should ban or apply censorship, the point is the awfully pathetic game shouldn't have been made in the first place. And for people who play it for kicks or laughs, or just to find out and see what the game is like, perhaps they should take those reasons and tell that to real rape victims.

"oh I played the game for laughs!"
When ever penny spent on it, every minute wasted on it producing it was like violating a rape victim all over again.

Maybe a game where you are a pedophile and the point is to lure children to your house, and you get super special upgrades for group sessions. maybe your a buyer for a sex slave ring and sell boys and girls men and women all over the world, maybe next your a general for a group of child soliders in the Congo.

my point is what come next to satisfy people desire for "escapism"

I don't believe in censorship its wrong, free thought is good, crossing the line of integrity and decency and considererations for other who have suffered at the hands of people who are scum, why would anyone want to be scum, even for pretend

 

[Mrsoupcup]

Um... yeah, according to Kotaku they officially banned rape games in Japan itself, which is some news...

I'm pretty sure this type of game is frowned on in Japan. I mean it is a freaking rape simulator. Still that is good news.

 

[michiehoward]

This is my take on this issue
I am against the ban and will try to explain why, but before that I'm against how people make an opinion or decision as definite as ban something after just getting to know that there is a video game about rape.

It is the same case when news channels go against violent video games. They hear that there is a video game that has killing or blood, and based on that bit on information they go on to make their opinions about it about how that must warp people's minds and promote violence or desensitize the poor little kids, and they usually try to provide some research that no one knows for sure how it was made or how valid it truly is on the big picture of things.

So the first thing that should be done before making or promoting the decision of "That should be banned" is taking the time to think about the effects of such media (if the argument is that the game really makes people more likely to kill or rape, or people enjoy doing it in the game as if it were the real thing), playing or finding a way to go through the game (if I were to say, such movie or book should be banned, my opinion would never be taken seriously if I don't watch it or read it first, and that takes more than the 2 seconds some people took to say that rapelay should be banned), and also have some understanding of the material ( I like the article, and how the writer says at the beginning that 'I have no idea how I got dragged into this. I'm no expert on eroge games, Japanese culture, rape, censorship or anything else related to the game').

Where I'm going with this is like lets think for example about how news channels say shooting people in GTA could have an effect in real life, and they talk about research that has been made. If I'm really interested in that issue, I would also bring to the case that scene in GTA or in Heavy Rain in which you decide whether to kill or not a character that is pleading for his life, in those cases my perception of what was happening was completely different than before, I spared their life but then had no problem shooting more faceless drones that came up afterwards. There are games like InFamous in which I played it through it once as a hero (being as considerate to others, specially innocent characters), and once as a villain (being a complete bastard to everyone), and I did all that in one same game. This shows me that even inside of the world of video games, I treat different characters in different ways, and my perception of them changes, so I would think that my brain would react differently with a real person that it does with a video game character as well. So I would put all that info into my research in order to come up with a more complete result, problem is, you need to know more about video games than what tv journalist do in order to come up with that.

Knowing about video games is just half the issue before making an opinion about this though, the other half is going into how violence or in this case sex or rape is portrayed or at what kind of audience it is aimed for. I cannot go as in deep about it because I haven't played Rapelay or know the psychology behind people's sexual fantasies, but I know that there are consenting adults out there that buy handcuffs and blind folds and all sorts of sexual related stuff to enhance their experience and that is legal as far as I know as long as it is consenting, safe, and part of a game. The scenarios in which some people play might be not much different that representing a rape scene, but acted and made belief. They do it in the privacy of their homes (as in the game) and don't go around doing it to unsuspecting victims, and would probably be offended if someone would insinuate that. Some people would see those activities as weird or crazy, but others would find it natural and that it doesn't harm anyone so there is no need to complain.

So is it weird and crazy to have a game like this? many think so and I could too, but not everyone. Is it different to play a fantasy with a fictional, actress like character (hence sort of consenting because the fictional character was programmed for whats happening in the game) than those who play with real people who like the same?

The crime of Rape is not about sex, or S&M, its about power, humilating and degrading another person, rape is purely about causing pain (every type) upon someone.

Acting out a scene of rape or dominance and submission, kink, handcuffs and blindfolds, gags ect ect is scenrio between two consenting adults, consenting adults being the opertive phrase. If you using the defense that Rapelay is a innocent way to act out your fantasies I would disagree, there is a difference between rape (the crime) and what fantasy you act with your partner or in your dreams, one is real and with consent, the other is something within your sleeping sub-concious mind.