Are you implying pretext or incompetence? Either way I'm sure he's going to be found guilty of something.Louzerman102 said:
Looks like LulzSec is in trouble
- Thread starter Dirty Hipsters
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Agreed. Sony is allowed to change anything they like about they system they made. I think that Linux on PS3 is great, but if Sony doesn't, that's their choice. It's still possible, but questionably legal. However, will you actually get in trouble for it? Hell no. All that doesn't mean that Sony's customers should be punished. To Sony, this means a few less people will play PSN. No problem, they already made a ton of money from people buying PS3's. It's a huge problem, however, for the customers.Awexsome said:
Well, as far as I am concerned Sony robbed me, and everyone else who lost the "Other OS" option so I have no sympathy for them on those grounds. I do not support the actions against them as any kind of "class war", and feel they deserve it for being a massive mega-corperation. Also I wouldn't be surprised if they are actually valued in the trillions of dollars, nobody even knows the full extent of Sony's holdings, only what they reveal publically. There has been a lot said about this, especially back in the 1980s, as I said Sony is the real life entity a lot of the evil Japanacorps of cyberpunk fiction has been based on.... but still, they are entitled to their money and holdings, I only object to them on the grounds of their stealing and their behaviors. I'd actually prefer it if there was a plausible legal mehacnism through which your typical person could hold corperate giants responsible for their behavior.
HOWEVER, understand that Lulzsec has also apparently attacked Nintendo, whether they chose to spare Nintendo, or were chased off my more severe security being in place is unknown. I don't know enough about this organization or it's integrity to say. Given that on the surface this appears to be a situation where they are attacking places indiscriminantly I can't really say I feel sorry for them here. At least not with the information I currently have.
I would however not count on this as being a victory yet. All we know is that the FBI has someone in custody who might be a member. Given the way hackers hide their trails and try and create false positives this guy could just be some poor slob that has nothing to do with anything. Even if he IS involved, it remains to be seen what can actually be proven. I notice the article says they have him in custody for the moment, but whether they can hold, prosecute, and/or convict him remains to be seen. Unless the guy admits involvement and cuts some kind of a deal, this is ultimatly meaningless until it goes to court and we have a ruling which could take years.
Unless I'm missing something, looking at previous efforts to bust hackers, the way this sounds is that there are decent odds that he's going to turn out to be some poor slob who doesn't know anything about this.
In another thread I posted a link about "Operation Sun Devil" which was an effort by The US Secret Service to crack down on hackers. The operation took place over 15 differant cities and they wound up with 3 arrests... and well, it's complicated, but let's just say each of those arrests is a story unto itself.
That's old news as I don't follow this stuff too closely (I'm hardly a hacker fanboy) but when the FBI or other authorities scream "we caught a hacker!!!!" I have my doubts, especially seeing even if they did catch one actually proving anything in a real court can be difficult, especially in the US with that pesky "fruit of the poisoned vine" bit, which when it comes to purely electronic crimes can mean all the defense attorney has to do is poke a hole in one bit and *poof* everything goes away.
HOWEVER, understand that Lulzsec has also apparently attacked Nintendo, whether they chose to spare Nintendo, or were chased off my more severe security being in place is unknown. I don't know enough about this organization or it's integrity to say. Given that on the surface this appears to be a situation where they are attacking places indiscriminantly I can't really say I feel sorry for them here. At least not with the information I currently have.
I would however not count on this as being a victory yet. All we know is that the FBI has someone in custody who might be a member. Given the way hackers hide their trails and try and create false positives this guy could just be some poor slob that has nothing to do with anything. Even if he IS involved, it remains to be seen what can actually be proven. I notice the article says they have him in custody for the moment, but whether they can hold, prosecute, and/or convict him remains to be seen. Unless the guy admits involvement and cuts some kind of a deal, this is ultimatly meaningless until it goes to court and we have a ruling which could take years.
Unless I'm missing something, looking at previous efforts to bust hackers, the way this sounds is that there are decent odds that he's going to turn out to be some poor slob who doesn't know anything about this.
In another thread I posted a link about "Operation Sun Devil" which was an effort by The US Secret Service to crack down on hackers. The operation took place over 15 differant cities and they wound up with 3 arrests... and well, it's complicated, but let's just say each of those arrests is a story unto itself.
That's old news as I don't follow this stuff too closely (I'm hardly a hacker fanboy) but when the FBI or other authorities scream "we caught a hacker!!!!" I have my doubts, especially seeing even if they did catch one actually proving anything in a real court can be difficult, especially in the US with that pesky "fruit of the poisoned vine" bit, which when it comes to purely electronic crimes can mean all the defense attorney has to do is poke a hole in one bit and *poof* everything goes away.
If I was these guys, I would throw a generator and a throwaway laptop in the back of an old van and just roll around town until I found an unsecured wireless network and do everything from it.
The FBI, and police in general, are still operating off this silly idea that an IP = a person. When you hear about the FBI grabbing someone, you toss the old laptop, buy a new one, and hunt for a different unsecured network.
Easy.
The FBI, and police in general, are still operating off this silly idea that an IP = a person. When you hear about the FBI grabbing someone, you toss the old laptop, buy a new one, and hunt for a different unsecured network.
Easy.
It's more then a generic ski-mask. Anon has become a symbol.Char-Nobyl said:
Think of it like a Batman mask, but it's constantly passed from person to person. In this scenario, anyone can be Batman because Batman is the description rather then a name.
I have and, indeed, have thought about the possibility that Lulzsec might have used his IP or computer as a proxy. The probability of that is somewhat high, given LS's technical prowess.Raiyan 1.0 said:
As for the rape thing...well, when perceived "injustice" done by one faction is met with a response from the other, what do you expect most people to do? Manicures? Yoga?
No - they'll do what is been proven time and again to be the norm: give in to their hatred and rage at the expense of all other mental faculties. Just for teh lulz. See also: Daniel Ellsberg and Bradley Manning.
Whoever said waterboarding helped catch Osama Bin Laden is flat out wrong.
It didn't.
Also, waterboarding is torture and America has put their own soldiers and foreign soldiers on trial in the past for doing it. (Vietnam, Japanese soldiers during WW2).
Luckily, that shenanigans has been stopped thanks to the slightly more sane American government that followed the past administration (although we will probably still be outsourcing torture to different countries, including Saudi Arabia (we recently lost Egypt's uses for that probably).
No, it's not the worst thing we ever did, American history and the arguably the present is filled with crimes worse than that done by America in the case of waterboarding. But torture is not justifiable and is not a reliable way to gain information.
It's revenge, and it's stooping to the level of a terrorist. It's not about saying "but Al Qaeda did worse" it's about how it's not effective, and how it is hypocritical to torture and then turn around and talk about being a free, brave nation that's the "good guys".
Threadjack over.
This situation is turning very interesting. Much as I'm not a fan of the FBI or abusive corporations, Sony isn't huge on my shitlist of corporations, and LulzSec seems to be arrogant renegades as opposed to any sort of do-good causes that Anon focuses on (Iran, etc. etc.).
It didn't.
Also, waterboarding is torture and America has put their own soldiers and foreign soldiers on trial in the past for doing it. (Vietnam, Japanese soldiers during WW2).
Luckily, that shenanigans has been stopped thanks to the slightly more sane American government that followed the past administration (although we will probably still be outsourcing torture to different countries, including Saudi Arabia (we recently lost Egypt's uses for that probably).
No, it's not the worst thing we ever did, American history and the arguably the present is filled with crimes worse than that done by America in the case of waterboarding. But torture is not justifiable and is not a reliable way to gain information.
It's revenge, and it's stooping to the level of a terrorist. It's not about saying "but Al Qaeda did worse" it's about how it's not effective, and how it is hypocritical to torture and then turn around and talk about being a free, brave nation that's the "good guys".
Threadjack over.
This situation is turning very interesting. Much as I'm not a fan of the FBI or abusive corporations, Sony isn't huge on my shitlist of corporations, and LulzSec seems to be arrogant renegades as opposed to any sort of do-good causes that Anon focuses on (Iran, etc. etc.).
Problem: Lulz =/= BatmanSaneAmongInsane said:
Ergo: They are not good at all.
I'll attribute Anonymous to Batman sometimes, but not these guys.
That was my original point. Anon is the closest thing to Batman in this world, for better or worse.FalloutJack said:
Lulzsec is like those guys in Hockey pads that the beginning of The Dark Knight. Imitators, and poor ones at that.
Ah, but consider this: people claim allegiance to Anon and carry its banner while doing perfectly legal (and often admirable) things, like the Co$ protests. Similarly, you can wear a ski mask while you...well, ski, for one, or if it's cold out, but the important thing is that it's still something you can wear while clearly not breaking the law and-SaneAmongInsane said:
-wait, why are we arguing over what's a better analogy for anonymous?
Does anybody know how many search warrants or arrest warrants the FBI puts out per day? They're all in the public forum, but unless anyone actually is bothering to pay attention they go unannounced. We know that 40 people have been pulled in for questioning since the Anonymous thing started, many of them high ranking server admins. We know this from the Anonymous war between Ryan and Owen that started this LulzBoat. Ryan got control over the Anonymous IRC because other members could no longer run the servers from their homes. Want to bet if their computers are still in custody? They probably are.
The FBI doesn't talk. They're not going to announce to the world who their chasing or if they have any leads. They say nothing. It doesn't really matter if it's Anonymous or the LulzBoat, the FBI say nothing. If no one cared enough to pay attention to which arrest warrants they were putting out, then we don't know how many members they've nabbed. Neither Anon nor Lulzy are going to admit that members are being caught, it weakens their position as "Teh Glorious Hacker Extreme!". The FBI won't say anything until the ones they've caught have been brought to trial, which hasn't happened yet.
So really, we're getting this from a more biased perspective. The LulzBoat is openly and publicly hacking, challenging, boasting, whatever, which makes them look like they're the only ones acting. They're not. It's just that the FBI has the good sense not to say any more than they need to.
The FBI doesn't talk. They're not going to announce to the world who their chasing or if they have any leads. They say nothing. It doesn't really matter if it's Anonymous or the LulzBoat, the FBI say nothing. If no one cared enough to pay attention to which arrest warrants they were putting out, then we don't know how many members they've nabbed. Neither Anon nor Lulzy are going to admit that members are being caught, it weakens their position as "Teh Glorious Hacker Extreme!". The FBI won't say anything until the ones they've caught have been brought to trial, which hasn't happened yet.
So really, we're getting this from a more biased perspective. The LulzBoat is openly and publicly hacking, challenging, boasting, whatever, which makes them look like they're the only ones acting. They're not. It's just that the FBI has the good sense not to say any more than they need to.
Seems more to me like your jumping the gun. What on earth happened to 'Innocent until proven guilty'? See, this is why justice fails. Because before the trial even begins everyone's going about lighting up their torches. I uphold my own judgement until I actually hear the facts and I hope that justice is served, if he is indeed the hacker I hope he's caught and if he isn't I hope he's free once more.Dirty Hipsters said:
And if he is the hacker I hope his punishment is working for FBI on a dial up computer, just because I enjoy irony.
Lulzsec is like those guys in Hockey pads that the beginning of The Dark Knight. Imitators, and poor ones at that.[/quote]
I would (and have) compared LulzSec to the Joker. Their actions have neither rhyme nor reason...they simply find it amusing to watch people squirm and suffer. It even says so on top of their Twitter feed.
[/quote]
BATMAN VS LULZ
Nope, sorry. Just doesn't seem to have the same charm as the Joker. Then again, I suppose batman punching a hacker in the face would be kind of refreshing.
I'm not going to get into a whole argument about the whole removal of Other OS, that's not what this thread is about anyways. Though if people where using it to cheat and pirate I say they where somewhat in the right to remove the function anyways. This is about the illegal actions of some hackers, and no matter what Sony may have done no illegal action against them, especially one that hurts so many third party people, is justified.Atmos Duality said:
....unless you count the market for legal jailbreaking of devices. Were it legal to get the technology, of course.Danceofmasks said:
That's actually sort of the same kind of system as the "copying your movies is legal. Copying DVDs of your movies is not because breaking the copy protection is what pirates do" deal. The truth there is, you actually own the license to any "Fair Use" of the movie, but being unable to legally break the copy protection means the producer can charge you any desired price for the movie on new media, instead of having the price set by the actual costs of getting it transferred to the new media (almost nothing).
In other words, it's worth it for a company to pay lawyers, lobbyists and government officials to circumvent both the letter and intent of the law by passing a contradictory law that is too expensive to fight in court.
Ah, but if the jailbreaking technology is given away for free, such as in the case of cracking region-locked DVDs, then it's all good.w00tage said:
The reason the Hotz court case was such a circus was 'cos Sony didn't actually have a legal leg to stand on, and they were just using their financial clout to hurt him by dragging it on and on.