LucasFilms Confirms adding "NOOOOOO!" to Return of the Jedi
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
In case no one's already noticed, and I fear I'm stating the obvious, Lucas has gone batshit crazy.
Listen to my differing opinion, if you would...
When Vader got into his suit for the first time, he soon enough shouted, 'No!'
I know you all hate this, but it has artistic merit. It's his last act and voice as Anakin Skywalker, a final emotional outcry before he accepts his new role as a dark Lord of the Sith.
So, yeah, I like this change. It ties it up nicely to show that Vader has been conquered by Anakin Skywalker, and it tells this in a visual and vocal style that ties it into the third movie.
I know you guys like to talk to yourselves about how right you are, but please at least give this comment some thought before yelling at me, or trying to turn me to your side, cos as a guy who prefers 'Revenge of the Sith', to 'The Empire Strikes Back', I have to defend myself from a lot of Star Wars fans, being a huge one myslef.
When Vader got into his suit for the first time, he soon enough shouted, 'No!'
I know you all hate this, but it has artistic merit. It's his last act and voice as Anakin Skywalker, a final emotional outcry before he accepts his new role as a dark Lord of the Sith.
So, yeah, I like this change. It ties it up nicely to show that Vader has been conquered by Anakin Skywalker, and it tells this in a visual and vocal style that ties it into the third movie.
I know you guys like to talk to yourselves about how right you are, but please at least give this comment some thought before yelling at me, or trying to turn me to your side, cos as a guy who prefers 'Revenge of the Sith', to 'The Empire Strikes Back', I have to defend myself from a lot of Star Wars fans, being a huge one myslef.
Why? Dude, for the love of god, why?
No one else could get away with this shit.
Could you imagine if Peter Jackson edited the LoTR trilogy to fit better with The Hobbit? ARGH.
He wont, though. Peter Jackson is a boss.
No one else could get away with this shit.
Could you imagine if Peter Jackson edited the LoTR trilogy to fit better with The Hobbit? ARGH.
He wont, though. Peter Jackson is a boss.
That's an interesting way of looking at it, one I had not considered. I will have to ponder that for a while.DAPLR said:
Yes, but another wise man also said "A designer knows he has achieved perfection not when there is nothing left to add, but when there is nothing left to take away."DAPLR said:
First off, I'm not a huge Star Wars fan. I saw the original trilogy when I was younger and it drew me in. I came by the prologue trilogy much later and only watched the movies when they were on TV. I know the rough content of each movie, more of the original ones than the knew one, but I probably won't be able to discuss this on a very high level that requires Making Of or Wiki knowledge.DAPLR said:
I'd like to discuss this however, tho I think it'll come down to opinion and preference.
"Big No"s, in 90% of the case, end up being Narm for me. It's much more effective, both as an impact on the audience and in a "show, don't tell" kind of way, to show the character's direct reaction. Facial expression often works wonders, but with Vader you don't have that of course. But when you see him silently look back and forth between his tortured son crying in pain and the maniac laughing while he throws around magical lightning, you can see that there's something going on inside him.
It's very clear that this is a point where Vader has to decide on which side he's on, and we're subconsciously already aware that he'll save the movie because he earlier on didn't kill his son like an enemy rather than trying to pull him to his side and make peace with him (satisfying both sides of the conflict he now cannot evade anymore).
I'd also like to argue that the Big No changes how we see Vader's state of mind at the moment and that he appears much more determined without the Big No. Maybe it's just me, but "Big No"s always remind me of babies and children yelling in reflex. In silent, Vader shows no mercy, he is completely determined, doesn't even cry in pain from the shocks he receives. It also resonated with the silent awe and jaw-dropping that both Luke and the audience (ideally) have at this point, only cut by the screams of a guy you know will finally pay now.
So yeah, that's why I think the Big No robbed the scene of its dramatic tension and also cuts into Vader's inner struggle.
"Father! Please!"
(I hope he learns his lesson. Wait what? The Emperor's REALLY going to kill him?)
"No? NOOOOOOOOOOEEEEES!"
I can see - maybe - waiting about a second longer and then just the shorter quieter "No" just before picking up the Emperor. That way saving Luke doesn't come out of "nowhere" any more for people who've never seen "Empire" and don't understand Vader's motives. Only, get ADR to make it sound like a "stalwart No" rather than that half-question we got there.
"Father! Please!"
(I swore to serve the Emperor. This is my son. He's killing my son. HE'S KILLING... MY... SON!)
"No!" (or silence)
Also, Lucas needs to re-release the 1970s version again. I like the cleaner SFX of the new version and the "Jabba visits the Falcon" scene so far as tying the trilogy together goes but Han shot first. It gives him a better character arc and cements Luke as the real hero (no matter how whiny).
(I hope he learns his lesson. Wait what? The Emperor's REALLY going to kill him?)
"No? NOOOOOOOOOOEEEEES!"
I can see - maybe - waiting about a second longer and then just the shorter quieter "No" just before picking up the Emperor. That way saving Luke doesn't come out of "nowhere" any more for people who've never seen "Empire" and don't understand Vader's motives. Only, get ADR to make it sound like a "stalwart No" rather than that half-question we got there.
"Father! Please!"
(I swore to serve the Emperor. This is my son. He's killing my son. HE'S KILLING... MY... SON!)
"No!" (or silence)
Also, Lucas needs to re-release the 1970s version again. I like the cleaner SFX of the new version and the "Jabba visits the Falcon" scene so far as tying the trilogy together goes but Han shot first. It gives him a better character arc and cements Luke as the real hero (no matter how whiny).
For over a decade, the fanboys have been pissing and moaning about changes to the franchise. I admire how they are still at it after all this time. I think it is very Sisyphean of them to do it.
Fanboys, I know that you are still upset that Georege Lucas did not ask for your permission to alter his intellectual property back in the day, but seriously you have got to let this go. There is no reason for this outrage to continue.
Yes, I said it. He does not need your permission to change things.
Hand Fired Fires? So what? Get over it and move on with your lives.
Fanboys, I know that you are still upset that Georege Lucas did not ask for your permission to alter his intellectual property back in the day, but seriously you have got to let this go. There is no reason for this outrage to continue.
Yes, I said it. He does not need your permission to change things.
Hand Fired Fires? So what? Get over it and move on with your lives.
Maybe when he dies, someone with some actual talent will take over all the rights for Star Wars. Or at the very least some fans who will retcon all these changes out of existence.
Maybe its just me...but I didn't get that impression. In fact, the whole, 'Vader to good' thing happens far too quickly for me, anyway. He is evil in the 5th one, no question. Complex, but still evil. However, in the 6th, Luke talks to him for like ten seconds and Vader says, 'It is too late for me, son'.Marik Bentusi said:
I always found his final redemption lacking. The 'inner struggle', was displayed in a very bad way. We see, suddenly, that Vader doesn't like being bad. That, is rushed and inconsistent. But now that the series is complete, I can understand it a little better, since the only time when Vader said 'No' so passionately, is when there is a big, emotional struggle in him. Having Vader say 'No' in Return of the Jedi makes more sense then NOT having it in it now. Movies with such artistic value such as Star Wars will be looked on, and without the nostalgia crowd, will be able to see how some of the changes were for the better.
