Mar-A-Lago Raid

SilentPony

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I will say although personally I think Trump will get a pardon, if not walk altogether, it is much harder to sweep high-treason under the rug when the Israelis and British get pissy about Trump selling their state secrets to the Saudis.
 

Silvanus

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It's apparently difficult to do proper document control on documents on a private server you don't control. I. am. shocked.
Well, my point was sort of that this was someone else's job which wasn't done when the documents were not on the private server, and that Clinton would've had a reasonable expectation that it had been done.

But yes, agreed on the ticket for prison 2024.
 

Eacaraxe

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Unless Clinton was keeping these emails for herself without permission from the Records Department, I dont find this a good analogy. She wasn't stealing. She was doing poor cybersecurity
If I'm driving down the interstate at 125 miles per hour while texting and getting road head after having downing a fifth of Wild Turkey, I'm doing poor road safety. And if I'm lucky I'll be pulled over and arrested...opposed to having my dick bitten off in an almost-certainly fatal car wreck. Because it's still a damn crime. Neither ignorance nor recklessness isn't a defense, it's an aggravating circumstance.

Which is precisely why the Espionage Act includes language specifically stating reckless or negligent possession of classified documents is still an offense that carries the weight of intentional violation.
 
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Gordon_4

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If I'm driving down the interstate at 125 miles per hour while texting and getting road head after having downing a fifth of Wild Turkey, I'm doing poor road safety. And if I'm lucky I'll be pulled over and arrested...opposed to having my dick bitten off in an almost-certainly fatal car wreck. Because it's still a damn crime. Neither ignorance nor recklessness isn't a defense, it's an aggravating circumstance.

Which is precisely why the Espionage Act includes language specifically stating reckless or negligent possession of classified documents is still an offense that carries the weight of intentional violation.
A delightfully colourful analogy, bravo.
 

SilentPony

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So apparently Trump's lawyers are arguing he actually hold all executive privileges and declassification power, "The former President has sole discretion to classify a record as personal or Presidential" despite you know...not being the president.
Also they want the US government to foot the entire bill for the special master, because of fucking course he does.
 
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Dalisclock

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"YOU get a lawyer! And YOU get a lawyer! YOU get a lawyer!"
I'm mad at myself for not jumping on that joke first.

So apparently Trump's lawyers are arguing he actually hold all executive privileges and declassification power, "The former President has sole discretion to classify a record as personal or Presidential" despite you know...not being the president.
Also they want the US government to foot the entire bill for the special master, because of fucking course he does.
But he's still the president, haven't you heard? HE WON THE 2020 ELECTION AND IT WAS STOLEN! HUNTER BIDENS LAPTOP! HILLARY'S EMAILS!
 
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SilentPony

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Carolyn Maloney sent this request to NARA Acting Archivist Debra Steidel Wall. She asked for 2 things: A sworn declaration from Trump that all materials were returned and request for a report on whether NARA got everything back

NARA doesn't have the records because of Judge Cannon. But they now have standing to intervene in DC (because of this legitimate request from Congress) which would remove the case from Cannon's jurisdiction. Clever.
 

SilentPony

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Well they tried, but once again Trump proves that yes, he is above the law. With the appointment of a special master who gets to exclusively talk with the defense and Judge Cannon asserting she gets to re-review the Special Master's finding and make her own findings, this case will drag on for years and slowly and quietly die down, if not outright dismissed, in time for Trump to win re-election.
And it looks like he just gets to keep all the documents he still has hidden.
 
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PsychedelicDiamond

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Well they tried, but once again Trump proves that yes, he is above the law. With the appointment of a special master who gets to exclusively talk with the defense and Judge Cannon asserting she gets to re-review the Special Master's finding and make her own findings, this case will drag on for years and slowly and quietly die down, if not outright dismissed, in time for Trump to win re-election.
And it looks like he just gets to keep all the documents he still has hidden.
Imagine my shock.
 

meiam

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So apparently Trump's lawyers are arguing he actually hold all executive privileges and declassification power, "The former President has sole discretion to classify a record as personal or Presidential" despite you know...not being the president.
Also they want the US government to foot the entire bill for the special master, because of fucking course he does.
See what I like about that interpretation is it cuts both way, what if Obama announce that, as a former president just like Trump, he actually reclassify all the document Trump took with him, would his lawyer agree that under those circustance, Trump would have taken classified document? iirc one of Trump lawyer defense was that the president has power to declassify document even if he doesn't actually tell anyone.
 

CastletonSnob

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The court lifted the hold on Mar-a-Lago records.

 
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BrawlMan

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Honestly at this point I think we're gonna see Biden pardon Trump "in the name of national unity" ie please don't start a civil war.
Trump can be pardoned, and these assholes would still want a "civil war". That would not be enough for them. For people like them, it is never enough. Fuck the mindless 🐑 that constantly sucks his dick, and fuck the fucking fuckers tearing this country apart!
 

meiam

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Honestly at this point I think we're gonna see Biden pardon Trump "in the name of national unity" ie please don't start a civil war.
At this point Trump seems to be the best thing to happen to the democrat, he's extremely popular amongst his rabid fan base, but everybody else hate him. Electorally speaking its probably best for the democrat if he is the candidate in 2024. So for them the ideal scenario is for the justice wheel to grind just slow enough for him to be on the ticket in 2024 but in weaker form from all the criminal probe, and then just arrest him right after.

But if he is arrested, I don't think pardoning him will do any good, I agree with brawlman that his support are itching for a fight and they've deluded themselves enough to think that they could easily win. But I think once things get serious they'll cave very quickly, just like jan 6 where they had no idea what to do once they got in or that stupid bird sanctuary things from a few year back. Let's not forget, they are very stupid people, and I don't mean that as an insult, I mean that literally.
 
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SilentPony

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At this point Trump seems to be the best thing to happen to the democrat, he's extremely popular amongst his rabid fan base, but everybody else hate him. Electorally speaking its probably best for the democrat if he is the candidate in 2024. So for them the ideal scenario is for the justice wheel to grind just slow enough for him to be on the ticket in 2024 but in weaker form from all the criminal probe, and then just arrest him right after.

But if he is arrested, I don't think pardoning him will do any good, I agree with brawlman that his support are itching for a fight and they've deluded themselves enough to think that they could easily win. But I think once things get serious they'll cave very quickly, just like jan 6 where they had no idea what to do once they got in or that stupid bird sanctuary things from a few year back. Let's not forget, they are very stupid people, and I don't mean that as an insult, I mean that literally.
I feel like this is the exact same thing Hilary's camp thought in 2016. "Oh Trump is so stupid and toxic and criminal, no way he gets the nomination. And even if he does, all the better for us, no way we can lose to him."
Never underestimate the Democrats ability to lose an election and never ever think the average American is a good person. Trump's polling among his base is skyrocketing. They love this! They see liberals and Democrats from the big city freaking out at how criminal he is, and they say "That's our guy!"
 

meiam

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I feel like this is the exact same thing Hilary's camp thought in 2016. "Oh Trump is so stupid and toxic and criminal, no way he gets the nomination. And even if he does, all the better for us, no way we can lose to him."
Never underestimate the Democrats ability to lose an election and never ever think the average American is a good person. Trump's polling among his base is skyrocketing. They love this! They see liberals and Democrats from the big city freaking out at how criminal he is, and they say "That's our guy!"
I'm not sure Clinton could have won against another, more mainstream, republican in 2016. Similarly I'm not sure Biden would do better against someone like Desanti in 2024. Lets not forget that Trump lost his re election, which has only happen a very limited number of time, and that at the same time the GOP lost both chamber. We'll have to see with the mid term, but things are actually looking decent for dem at the moment, and I don't think Trump is helping.

I will agree that dem love to lose race they could easily win, and it would be good for the US if they got their act together.
 
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thebobmaster

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I'm not sure Clinton could have won against another, more mainstream, republican in 2016. Similarly I'm not sure Biden would do better against someone like Desanti in 2024. Lets not forget that Trump lost his re election, which has only happen a very limited number of time, and that at the same time the GOP lost both chamber. We'll have to see with the mid term, but things are actually looking decent for dem at the moment, and I don't think Trump is helping.

I will agree that dem love to lose race they could easily win, and it would be good for the US if they got their act together.
I think the best chance for the Democrats (not that this will be very likely to happen) is for Biden to decline to run for re-election, in which case California governor Gavin Newsom has expressed interest in running. I think he would have a pretty decent shot, and he's shown himself to not be afraid to call out Republicans for their bullshit.