Mass Effect 3: The Wall

[OldNewNewOld]

The endings still suck. Now they only suck less. Atleast this shit is done with.

Also anyone else feel the refusal ending was Bioware giving a big "fuck you" to the people who called them out on the original shitty endings?

Well the refusal simply takes what the player could expect to happen and makes it happen. The crucible is the last chance of all the galaxy and is the only thing they have left going for them. The last plan hinged on it, and that is where everything was amassed. You were given choices on how to fire it, but if you choose simply not to use it, the Reapers will continue to curbstomp the galaxy as they had been, regardless of how much military effectiveness there was. What else could be done? All that military might was only covering how well the crucible could be protected. Pushing back and defeating the reapers? Wasn't ever a remote possibility, which is why the crucible was made.

Why not? Its a work of fiction, and we're already accepting space magic as the only other possible solution. They couls have easily.worte " The war was brutal. Death was in the billions. But by the end we saw what few reapers remained flee back into dark space. We won on our terms." I thought of that in 30 seconds. Bioware could have made it work. Instead they chose to take their ball and go home if we didnt like their dumb endings.

"Rocks fall and they die."

EDIT: Hell, if they really wanted they could have tied it into EMS or something so that it would actually reflect our playthrough.

Not only would that negate the whole 3rd game, but also the previous 2.
You spent the whole game trying to build the Crucible and now you win without it? Well, you could have just used those resources and improved your military strength and not sacrifice half the existing fleet just to defend a useless weapon. Far from impossible to win.

Which leads to the part that would negate the previous 2 games where the Reaper are pictured as mechanical Gods who are cleaning the galaxy for billions of years without any problems. Nothing can stand in their way.

1 Reaper did so much damage in the first game and now a whole army of those monster lose against some united weak living creatures... sorry, but I can't buy something like that after enjoying the previous 2 games.

OT:
I have just 2 things that I don't like about the endings.

1st is in the destruction ending. It doesn't say that ALL Geth have been killed. Ya know, the guys whoa re actually the real victims in the whole series.
2nd is in the control ending. Yeah, it's all nice, but I just can't accept that Shepard didn't change after merging with the Reaper. And even if he didn't change, he would have changed over time. I would like to see what happened in the distant future where he notices that living being will repeat the same mistakes over and over again. Where living beings create synthetics, always stronger than the previous one until even the reaper have problems fighting them. Remember, we are talking about a really long time interval. Shepard is now "immortal".

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

The endings still suck. Now they only suck less. Atleast this shit is done with.

Also anyone else feel the refusal ending was Bioware giving a big "fuck you" to the people who called them out on the original shitty endings?

Well the refusal simply takes what the player could expect to happen and makes it happen. The crucible is the last chance of all the galaxy and is the only thing they have left going for them. The last plan hinged on it, and that is where everything was amassed. You were given choices on how to fire it, but if you choose simply not to use it, the Reapers will continue to curbstomp the galaxy as they had been, regardless of how much military effectiveness there was. What else could be done? All that military might was only covering how well the crucible could be protected. Pushing back and defeating the reapers? Wasn't ever a remote possibility, which is why the crucible was made.

Why not? Its a work of fiction, and we're already accepting space magic as the only other possible solution. They couls have easily.worte " The war was brutal. Death was in the billions. But by the end we saw what few reapers remained flee back into dark space. We won on our terms." I thought of that in 30 seconds. Bioware could have made it work. Instead they chose to take their ball and go home if we didnt like their dumb endings.

"Rocks fall and they die."

EDIT: Hell, if they really wanted they could have tied it into EMS or something so that it would actually reflect our playthrough.

Sorry but that would be just as big or bigger a plot turn around. throughout the whole thing we've learnt again and again that the reapers are far far too powerful to defeat by conventional means. If you somehow won anyway that would screw with the story even more. The refusal ending makes sense the way it is, its not a happy ending, no, but its the only way it would make sense.

None of the endings make sense. I'll take a bittersweet, satisfying ending that's made at least plausible with good writing than bittersweet, dumb-trying-to-be-smart space magic.

Personally the endings make sense to me, if they don't to you that's ok. But regardless if after ramming down our throats for three games that we could never beat the reapers through conventional warfare they gave us an ending where you do exactly that, I would not be satisfied with that.

 

[Gennadios]

It got the job done. It didn't fix the damage. Bioware is still dead to me and after watching the ending on YouTube I still don't see much of a point in a second playthrough.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

Personally, as someone who liked the original endings, the Cut seems half-hearted. It gave closure on some things... but that just made the lack of closure on everything else even more striking - I preferred it when they gave us no closure at all to when they gave us closure on all the wrong parts. But hey, if others like it, then good for them. Guess I never thought it was necessary.

The analytical part of me was fine with the original endings. But they were emotionally lacking and That is what the extended cut really fixes. The added closure at some points is nice but its far more important to me that the new endings have a definite emotional impact.

 

[Dastardly]

Mass Effect 3: The Wall

A last farewell to Commander Shepard.

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What you've said about the scope of the story is what still really resonates with me: my story, my Shepard, was all about the small pictures. That's why she wasn't running Renegade through the universe, focusing entirely on victory at all costs. She wanted to maintain the same humanity (and other -ities, I'm not racist!) that she was fighting for, never forgetting the men, women, and other bilaterally symmetrical bipeds on the ground and in their homes.

When the ending came, and I was faced with this monumental decision, I felt grossly underqualified. I was just fighting to keep things spinning, so that we could continue trying to fix things... and now I was suddenly the sole vote in how universal justice should be dispensed?

And that feeling wasn't addressed by this improved ending (and I can agree it was improved). Why would the Catalyst be so willing to turn this choice over to me, after eons of grinding species like mine into paste to stick together more Reapers? If this thing had the option of synthesis all along, why hadn't it given that a shot?

See, my problem wasn't so much with the weight of the endings (eg, the lack of epilogue), but with the weight of the choice itself and its connection to what we'd all been fighting for. While folks were usually complaining that their choices didn't really matter, to me this last choice simply mattered too much. It was too big a choice all at once, to have to be made in so short a time.

Now for the obligatory Armchair Writer:

I'd have loved it if Shepard had maintained contact with the crew of the Normandy (and Hackett), and they were hearing the conversation between the Commander and the Catalyst. In this way, Shepard could have asked the crew what they felt. And this would have been a fantastic time for the player's choices regarding each crew member, love interests, trust-building, to play out as an influence into each crew member's decision -- Maybe Tali, who would seem a shoe-in for destroying synthetics, was swayed when Shepard brokered peace with the Geth, for instance.

And after all of it, the Catalyst reminds Shepard that, as the only organic present, the choice is ultimately hers/his... and, in a final Paragon/Renegade move, Shepard could decide to go with the majority, go with his/her favorite, go with his/her gut, or tell the Catalyst to go to hell.

That is a choice that would have brought the whole series together for that final choice, and still given the player a way to express that last little bit of his or her own personal Shepard -- in the face of your inevitable death, and in the eyes of your friends and comrades, how do you make your last choice?

_________

(That said, the new ending did give more consequence to my choice. And I will still miss Commander Eileen Shepard. May she finally rest.)

 

[praetor_alpha]

Yo, we heard you didn't like being killed by machines, so we are sending machines to kill you so you won't be killed by machines.

Nope, still the same problem, but the end is now rainbows and unicorns compared to what it was. Everything seemed to be rebuilt overnight; I'd thought it would be decades before London was rebuilt (much less the rest of the galaxy) and the Normandy would never fly again.

The control ending gives me the creeps. Not the low voice, but the weird third/first person way it (he?) talks about Shepard. I would not trust.

We got a turd of an ending originally, and this is a polished turd. It looks odd, and you might even show it to your friends, but it still smells funny.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

Ehhh, my biggest two problems are still there; the number of plotholes and other illogical inconsistencies, and the lack of specific differences in the possible endings.

Or to put it another way: "Jack, why didn't you turn up to my funeral? I thought we were close, Jack. Look, I know you said you wanted to get laid after the battle, but you could've at least waited until after the funeral. I died and I'm going to haunt the shit out of you." At least they changed it so that the final thoughts when Shepard dies are actually about the most important characters to that Shepard. For my Shepard it was Anderson (of course) and Jack, with Mordin in between for some reason I'm not quite sure about...

Very simple reason Jak wasn't their, the ceremony was held on the Normandy, while they were still on whatever random planet it was they landed on. The only people who could be there were the ones who were already on the Normandy. Although that said, where was the rest of the Normandy crew? At the very least I would have thought Chakwas would have been there....ah well.

Good point, I didn't realise that. Guess that kinda scuppers my specific point, though my annoyance with the ending being so similar for everyone still stands.

Hang on a second... If they did that scene while they were still on that random planet, how did they already know Shepard's dead? And how come they already had his/her name prepared for the wall? That seems pretty pessimistic.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

If this thing had the option of synthesis all along, why hadn't it given that a shot?

Simple: it had. Investigating through the catalysts new dialogue the catalyst states that it had attempted to create synthesis more than once in the past. But that organics weren't ready for it yet and that synthesis 'couldn't be forced'. That Shepard had made it to the Citadel at that point showed the catalyst that maybe organics were now ready or something like that. part of the reason it turned the choice over to Shepard is that for control it needed Shepard to take control, for Synthesis it needed Shepard to 'add his energy to the crucible' and by the fact that Shepard was standing there it concluded that its own solution was no longer viable.

 

[Dastardly]

If this thing had the option of synthesis all along, why hadn't it given that a shot?

Simple: it had. Investigating through the catalysts new dialogue the catalyst states that it had attempted to create synthesis more than once in the past. But that organics weren't ready for it yet and that synthesis 'couldn't be forced'. That Shepard had made it to the Citadel at that point showed the catalyst that maybe organics were now ready or something like that. part of the reason it turned the choice over to Shepard is that for control it needed Shepard to take control, for Synthesis it needed Shepard to 'add his energy to the crucible' and by the fact that Shepard was standing there it concluded that its own solution was no longer viable.

Yeah, I get that's what the thing said, but it just wasn't very convincing. Synthesis was forced -- Shepard made the decision for EVERYONE, and I highly doubt everyone would have voted yes. But really, this is just a sub-issue to me, not really worth getting crazy over...

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

Personally, as someone who liked the original endings, the Cut seems half-hearted. It gave closure on some things... but that just made the lack of closure on everything else even more striking - I preferred it when they gave us no closure at all to when they gave us closure on all the wrong parts. But hey, if others like it, then good for them. Guess I never thought it was necessary.

The analytical part of me was fine with the original endings. But they were emotionally lacking and That is what the extended cut really fixes. The added closure at some points is nice but its far more important to me that the new endings have a definite emotional impact.

Fair enough. I was totally satisfied with the emotional aspect with the originals, and only found a couple of plot holes that I don't think can be explained away - funnily enough, the most jarring one of Liara teleporting to the Normandy wasn't fixed...

Wait, did you play from the save they gave you just before you enter the beam up to the citadel? Because they actually did resolve that. Here's a link to a video of the scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIc02nq__zY basically your squad gets hit and you call in the Normandy to pick them up.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

Ehhh, my biggest two problems are still there; the number of plotholes and other illogical inconsistencies, and the lack of specific differences in the possible endings.

Or to put it another way: "Jack, why didn't you turn up to my funeral? I thought we were close, Jack. Look, I know you said you wanted to get laid after the battle, but you could've at least waited until after the funeral. I died and I'm going to haunt the shit out of you." At least they changed it so that the final thoughts when Shepard dies are actually about the most important characters to that Shepard. For my Shepard it was Anderson (of course) and Jack, with Mordin in between for some reason I'm not quite sure about...

Very simple reason Jak wasn't their, the ceremony was held on the Normandy, while they were still on whatever random planet it was they landed on. The only people who could be there were the ones who were already on the Normandy. Although that said, where was the rest of the Normandy crew? At the very least I would have thought Chakwas would have been there....ah well.

Good point, I didn't realise that. Guess that kinda scuppers my specific point, though my annoyance with the ending being so similar for everyone still stands.

Hang on a second... If they did that scene while they were still on that random planet, how did they already know Shepard's dead? And how come they already had his/her name prepared for the wall? That seems pretty pessimistic.

Hmmm true. I guess they had left him behind there and figured s/he must have been pretty screwed, but even so this being Shepard and all you would have thought they wouldn't be so quick to count him/her out.

 

[Therumancer]

So, what happens if Sherpard lives? Or was that not expanded on. Even the strategy guide makes it clear that if you get the scene with him/her drawing a breath afterwards that this is supposed to be the survival of the character.

That said, from what I've been hearing this ultimatly resolved nothing. The big question is whether or not "the line" is going to reform. If it does, I will probably wind up joining it. I have mixed feelings about even taking a look at this DLC because from what I've heard the endings still don't really work with the rest of the series.

At any rate, unless EA/Bioware decides to include an appropriate ending to the series, I'm pretty much done with them. The odds of me buying more of their products in an initial order/pre-order are pretty much nil at this point since I no longer trust the quality or integrity of their work. If they are willing to pretty much take a giant dump on fans of a series in what should be a concluding chapter, why should I become invested in their products? I mean I won't want to like the series or characters if I know they are going to pull this kind of crap, and if they did it once, they are liable to do it again.

See, I could have lived with it if they happened to have added a 4th option which is pretty much the "Shepard flat out wins, the galaxy is saved" option, without any connected tit for tat stuff. If they had added the appropriate ending that fits the series, I could deal with these other endings being there.

That's pretty much my final word on the subject for the moment. It's not that "nothing EA/Bioware could have done would have made me happy" it's simply that what I, and many others, want from the series and it's creators is rather transparent and hardly impossible
to give us, or unreasonable in the asking. It's EA/Bioware's obstinante refusal to do right by the fans.

 

[Geo Da Sponge]

If this thing had the option of synthesis all along, why hadn't it given that a shot?

Simple: it had. Investigating through the catalysts new dialogue the catalyst states that it had attempted to create synthesis more than once in the past. But that organics weren't ready for it yet and that synthesis 'couldn't be forced'. That Shepard had made it to the Citadel at that point showed the catalyst that maybe organics were now ready or something like that. part of the reason it turned the choice over to Shepard is that for control it needed Shepard to take control, for Synthesis it needed Shepard to 'add his energy to the crucible' and by the fact that Shepard was standing there it concluded that its own solution was no longer viable.

But how are organics ever supposed to develop to a point where they're capable of accepting Synthesis if they're continually culled just when they're getting good? And how does one individual out of one species of one cycle reaching a specific location demonstrate that every organic being, including plant life, is ready for synthesis? And how precisely is it not forced when Shepard does it? Everyone else doesn't even know what's happening to them been synthesis hits. How precisely do you even become ready for it?

Simply put, "you weren't ready" is a really bad hand wave excuse, especially when there's absolutely no logical reason why successive cycles are more ready. Unless constructing the Crucible is some how evidence of readiness, even though they have no idea what it really does apart from creating energy.

What defines being ready for synthesis? Because if the reasoning is biological, cultural, philosophical or technological then the Reaper cycle runs counter-productive to all of them.

EDIT:

Personally, as someone who liked the original endings, the Cut seems half-hearted. It gave closure on some things... but that just made the lack of closure on everything else even more striking - I preferred it when they gave us no closure at all to when they gave us closure on all the wrong parts. But hey, if others like it, then good for them. Guess I never thought it was necessary.

The analytical part of me was fine with the original endings. But they were emotionally lacking and That is what the extended cut really fixes. The added closure at some points is nice but its far more important to me that the new endings have a definite emotional impact.

Fair enough. I was totally satisfied with the emotional aspect with the originals, and only found a couple of plot holes that I don't think can be explained away - funnily enough, the most jarring one of Liara teleporting to the Normandy wasn't fixed...

Wait, did you play from the save they gave you just before you enter the beam up to the citadel? Because they actually did resolve that. Here's a link to a video of the scene http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIc02nq__zY basically your squad gets hit and you call in the Normandy to pick them up.

No, I didn't - that makes a lot more sense now. I admit I was wrong - have to say, the scene looks a little silly to me, but a lot less silly than it was before.

Yeah, I liked the fact that Harbinger is really neatly plucking gunships out of the air and lasering individuals off the ground, but when the Normandy flys in he gives them plenty of time to clear out. That and the fact that the response to "I need evac!" would probably be a mix of "Seriously? Now?" and "Where do you plan for us to evac them to?".

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

That's pretty much my final word on the subject for the moment. It's not that "nothing EA/Bioware could have done would have made me happy" it's simply that what I, and many others, want from the series and it's creators is rather transparent and hardly impossible
to give us, or unreasonable in the asking. It's EA/Bioware's obstinante refusal to do right by the fans.

Thing is, there's a difference between doing right by the fans and doing what the fans want and in this case IMO by creating the extended cut they were doing right by the fans, actually changing the ending or adding a 'Shepard wins' ending would actually have been worse. Giving the fans a all happy victory ending that contradicts what they've been saying throughout the game because they asked for it is in my opinion not doing right by the fans.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

But how are organics ever supposed to develop to a point where they're capable of accepting Synthesis if they're continually culled just when they're getting good? And how does one individual out of one species of one cycle reaching a specific location demonstrate that every organic being, including plant life, is ready for synthesis? And how precisely is it not forced when Shepard does it? Everyone else doesn't even know what's happening to them been synthesis hits. How precisely do you even become ready for it?

Simply put, "you weren't ready" is a really bad hand wave excuse, especially when there's absolutely no logical reason why successive cycles are more ready. Unless constructing the Crucible is some how evidence of readiness, even though they have no idea what it really does apart from creating energy.

What defines being ready for synthesis? Because if the reasoning is biological, cultural, philosophical or technological then the Reaper cycle runs counter-productive to all of them.

Yeah its not exactly a great excuse, but perhaps its not so much in the way of constant evolution over the cycles that doesn't make sense and more simply that given that Shepard *is* standing right there, the first to do so maybe it was worth giving synthesis another shot. Also given that the catalyst has concluded that its current solution won't work much longer it is perhaps getting a bit more desperate to find another solution, eg synthesis, hence it is more willing to take the chance and try it. This is conjecture of course but it would make a little more sense.

captcha: 'case closed' not sure about that

 

[DEAD34345]

I'm surprised by how much the extended cut has improved things for me. There's still massive, massive plot-holes, but to be honest I don't really care about those as much as I thought I did. This ending actually feels like an ending, and the choice actually feels like a choice this time (since I was told what it actually did, other than changing the colour of an explosion). Unlike the original, it provided closure and felt like it had a resolution. It might still somewhat mediocre, especially compared to the rest of the series, but it's enough for me to feel satisfied that the story has ended.

In fact I've even gotten back the urge to replay the series again, an enthusiasm that was all but destroyed after I first got to the end.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

...Huh. Well, that sounds like a game I wouldn't mind playing. Thanks for sharing.


Pity about Origin, though.

Give Sandboxie a try, it prevents Origin from reading the contents of your hard drive.

 

[MercurySteam]

I too am content with the new endings, though they could've gotten so much more out of this if they'd released them with the original 'finished' product. Synthesis is now my favourite but control is also quite heartwarming. The indoctrination theory was awesome but this is a more realistic solution to the mess that was the shipped ending.

Now time to put my feet up and wait for the next game in the series and the Mass Effect universe is huge so the possibilities are endless. The IP is still good but a sequel is not something we need.

 

[Therumancer]

That's pretty much my final word on the subject for the moment. It's not that "nothing EA/Bioware could have done would have made me happy" it's simply that what I, and many others, want from the series and it's creators is rather transparent and hardly impossible
to give us, or unreasonable in the asking. It's EA/Bioware's obstinante refusal to do right by the fans.

Thing is, there's a difference between doing right by the fans and doing what the fans want and in this case IMO by creating the extended cut they were doing right by the fans, actually changing the ending or adding a 'Shepard wins' ending would actually have been worse. Giving the fans a all happy victory ending that contradicts what they've been saying throughout the game because they asked for it is in my opinion not doing right by the fans.

Incorrect, because the overall message of the game is one of being able to triumph despite the overwhelming odds, no matter how bad it gets, you can always have everything come up roses. That's the problem with the endings is they do not thematically fit the rest of the game series. Had the game been more ambigious to begin with you might be right, but understand that even in "no win scenarios" like the Quarian/Geth conflict it is possible to save everyone.

I suppose on it's own it can be argued that the number of irresolvable problems if you haven't played the previous games might lead one to believe those endings fit, but simply put there should be an option for a perfect ending for those who played the entire series.

Understand that Mass Effect was not intended as a work of dark, gritty, science fiction. It was intended as a spiritual successor to "Knights Of the Old Republic" and to be in the same basic vein as Star Wars. That is to say overwhelmingly bad things happening, but good guys who always pull through in the end... at the most basic level.

The situation here is one where EA/Bioware decided to pretty much take a giant dump on the game and those who played it with those endings. Expanding on a turd, doesn't change that it's still a turd.

It's sort of like the Geth/Quarian thing, in general you have to pick which species is more "worthy" of survival due to their mutually exclusive points of view. You have option A or option B. UNLESS of course you played ME2 and have your buddy Legion which allows you to work out a peace which allows everyone to survive and co-exist peacefully.

In that context if you had played ONLY ME3 and had all of these bad things happening, without guys like Thane, Kasumi, Zaeed, and others changing all of these horrible things for the better, you could say having three sucktastic endings and having to choose which one sucked least might fit... for ME3 on it's own. As a series however you might be given 3 choices, but should have an "option 4" that overrides all the rest, which is pretty much in fitting with the series, and also the central message of what happened through the rest of the game. Instead of just "telling off" the Starchild, how about subverting/destroying the starchild or whatever and just completing the mission as intended and having everyone live happily ever after, with Shepard flying off into the sunset as a proper epic hero?

See, the problem is that anyone who feels these endings fit the series, or represent any kind of integrity on the part of the developers obviously haven't been paying attention to the series.

Basically if EA wants to end this and do right by the fans, they have made a good start by elaborating on the three bad endings. Now they need to go and create "option 4" that allows previous actions throughout the series to overcome that no-win scenario like every other one in the game. That's pretty much the only real way to make this right. It also allows the existing endings to remain in the game for those that happened to like them, and if some game developer really believes those endings fit, they should feel free to mention that in interviews that this is what they thought, but otherwise end the series properly.

At any rate, all QQing aside, EA should keep this in mind when next pondering why people hate them, likewise if (or should I say when) Bioware finds it can't trade on it's reputation anymore and that a lot of it's fanbase has eroded, this is going to be the big one, they annoyed people before with some of their previous game desicians (especially when it comes to DA2) but between this and TORtanic, I suspect they have really slam dunked themselves.

 

[Simonoly]

I enjoyed the EC endings purely because of the added emotional impact that was seriously lacking in the original endings. Sure the writing is still pretty weak and the end choices and consequences of said choices are quite unsophisticated, but at least it's much more substantial than what was there before. Although I will admit that the new 4th ending is beyond terrible.

Also, seeing as we now know that the relays and the citadel do not destroy everything in the local solar systems, why was the Normandy so concerned with escaping the crazy magic energy wave? And the whole scene with the Normandy crashing on the surface of that planet seems kind of pointless now too.