Mass Effect 3: The Wall

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

Incorrect, because the overall message of the game is one of being able to triumph despite the overwhelming odds, no matter how bad it gets, you can always have everything come up roses. That's the problem with the endings is they do not thematically fit the rest of the game series. Had the game been more ambigious to begin with you might be right, but understand that even in "no win scenarios" like the Quarian/Geth conflict it is possible to save everyone.

Point taken. However, firstly I wasn't saying I had a problem with having a victory ending, but that ending should NOT be based off simply your fleet beating theirs. You are correct that succeeding against overwhelming odds is a major theme but you never do it by simply whacking something larger than you till it dies. Some other solution found to defeating them that wasn't simply we fought till we won could be fine.

On that note however the synthesis ending is almost exactly that. It's a full victory and its more of a victory than expected. Of course people could and do argue that forcing synthesis on everyone is wrong but that was part of the idea. Bioware didn't want a black/white ending. Another of the major things throughout mass effect and part of what made it great in my eyes is that you are presented with hard decisions, easiest examples being kaiden/ashley and the geth heretics decision in me2. Or simply when you choose to save or not save the council in me1, knowing that saving them will result in the deaths of many humans. The point I'm trying to make is that I believe there shouldn't be only 1 good ending that is decidedly better than any other. Any of the endings excepting refuse still fit with the succeeding against all odds theme as you do stop the reapers. But they also keep with the theme of having to make difficult decisions.

So yes 'overwhelmingly bad things happening, but good guys who always pull through in the end... at the most basic level.' but that isn't to say that that victory is without cost.

As to the later part of your post, it is fundamentally based on the belief that the endings were absolute rubbish and didn't make sense and didn't fit with the story or themes. Personally I disagree with that and believe that though there were problems with them as a whole they were in no way seriously flawed. However whichever way people believe this it has already been discussed an almost ridiculous amount elsewhere and I doubt there is anything new we could say here about it. So basically whether they have done right by the fans depends entirely on your point of view of whether the endings were satisfactory.

See, the problem is that anyone who feels these endings fit the series, or represent any kind of integrity on the part of the developers obviously haven't been paying attention to the series.

So when you get down to it we disagree on this fundamental point and that causes the rest of the disagreement. I think in this case there isn't any true right answer just opinions. Many people agree with you and many people don't.

 

[RobotDinosaur]

I'm not completely content, but I guess I can say I'm satisfied.

And Susan?

In many ways, I am emotionally closer to her than I am to living, breathing people, and I didn't realize how much I needed to say goodbye to her until I was given the chance.

I cried as Liara placed Shepard's name upon the wall, quiet tears of loss. I'll miss her, but the void left by the original ending has been filled. I am sad, but content.

Goodbye, Commander Shepard. I will miss you.

This. This times 100. Especially with the final goodbye they added with Liara in the Conduit run.

It would sound silly saying it to someone else, but my FemShep will always be in my heart. I'm amazed how much I've come to care for this characters...hence why the original ending was such a stab in the heart.

Also inclined to agree. I had Tali as my LI. It was tough talking to her at the forward base. Then saying a final goodbye to her after she got hit at the beam run, which had a stronger impact on me than the beam run itself. But then seeing the Normandy crew, and her holding the nameplate to go onto the wall of the fallen and not able to put it on the wall... that scene nearly killed me. I went with the Destroy ending, and I was happy to finally be rid of the Reapers. I felt like Shepard's only regret wasn't that he would die to defeat the Reapers - it's that he wouldn't get to come back to Tali after it was all over.
[Though I'd like to think that since they show Shepard surviving the Citadel explosion, maybe he eventually finds his way back to her...]

 

[CanuckWithSideburns]

Very well written!
For my own part, I actually quite enjoyed the original endings. I liked that none of them presented a perfect solution where the Reapers were gone and everything went back to "normal". As a military history buff, I felt it was a very realistic way to end the conflict. Even when some recognizable measure of good comes from a war's conclusion, the scars left on the land and people don't just go away. It's an aspect of war that's often overlooked in storytelling, even when the tale is brilliant. It was a bold choice on BioWare's part and I felt it worked beautifully for a series where no action is without consequence.

I also personally enjoyed the open nature of the original endings. What I got after listening to the Stargazer's tale was that I (and by "I" I of course mean "Tom Shepherd" ) had succeeded. My actions had bought a future for the universe, even if I didn't know exactly what that future was and even if the succeeding generation didn't fully understand what happened. It felt like (here I go again) true history, the idea while my actions had set the framework for the future, what would actually happen wasn't up to me. That's the impression I got and it felt very profound.

I do agree though that the addition of the Normandy scenes gave some much needed closure to that part of the story. I felt it balanced out the intellectual payoff of the original ending with a better emotional payoff.
That's my two cents, anyway.

 

[Kurt Cristal]

I was fully satisfied with the new ending, tears were had. I only regret not bring Liara along for the final mission so I can see if the "get out of here" scene is different because she's a love interest. Ah well.

 

[darthzew]

What's interesting to me is that I'm not done with my Shepard. I based my Shepard on a character I came up with for a novel. Alison is her name. Anyway, Alison and Shepard share a lot of traits. The big one is that they are both lonesome people who are trying to get the universe to stand together. It's an irony.

Anyway, she chose Destroy. She chose destroy because it is the only ending that makes sense besides refusal. The other two are simply decisions that, without knowing the outcomes, anyone could have logically made. But anyway, it's interesting that the Normandy crew mourned Shepard's loss.

Because she chose destroy, Alison Shepard lived on. It's uncertain, really, but I like to think of it that Shepard is dead, but Alison, my character, lives on. She's in a novel I'm writing now and am going to have published online soon.

Mass Effect did wonders for helping design characters. It helped me think like them and make decisions as they would.

 

[Eric Morales]

Joanna Shepard

I have to ask why Joanna? I chose that name for my Shepard due to Perfect Dark and now I cannot finish the article until I know why you chose that name.

Same reason, my friend. In honor of Joanna Dark.

Was she an infiltrator by any chance? I also made a Joanna Shepherd

 

[Metalrocks]

yeah, the dlc wasnt perfect but it did clear things up. i also felt a bit sad to see liara placing shepards name on the memorial board. but at least its a good bye i can accept now. doesnt matter what choice you have made at the end.

yep, bye shepard. you will not be forgotten. including my self, since i have made an shepard trying to look as my self and make choices how i would have made them. talking baout being at your own funeral

 

[EnigmaticSevens]

I, for one, enjoyed being Digital Jesus. Have we learned nothing from the oodles of sci-fi that have poured through our collective psyche. Do ye for get the lessons of the Buggers, of Ender the Speaker for the Dead? Shortsighted xenocide is never the answer. Did the Butlerian Jihad teach you nothing? Even if the fundamental conflict between synthetic and organic results in a human victory, humans must evolve to fulfill the capacity of the artificial life they scorned! Can one watch A.I. and still wonder whether or not this unit has a soul?! What of Sonny? What of Roy and Deckard?!

For those who cry out against Synthesis, you demonstrate a fundamental error in your understanding! Synthesis is not conformity, it does not bend to one standard or another, it blends both into a new paradigm. As a microbiology student, I can assure you that this is one hundred percent, Grade A, board certified bullshit, but damn if it ain't a fine thing to ponder! Meshing digital and analogue systems so thoroughly that they become indistinguishable? Madness! But glorious madness! Perhaps our major macromolecules are no longer lipids, proteins, carbohydrates and nucleic acids, perhaps they now include silicates! I've got no fuckin' clue, but you know what? That makes me happy, because sci-fi is all about pushing the limits of the conceivable. Hell, Synthesis is a fine premise for any number games, movies or books.

To know that my dear Shepard advanced all creation to the supreme point of consciousness? Excellent! Behold Secher Nbiw! Behold the Golden Path!

*foams at the mouth, collapses in a glorious heap*

 

[alik44]

Meh C+ to maybe a low B-

But all an all they did give us closure.......not great closure not bad closure just closure

 

[1337mokro]

If you like the extended cut. Please do pick the refusal ending. I view that ending as Bioware venting it's rage at the fans for being loud enough that they had to go back into the box and edit the cut footage back in.

Just as a question. Why when you pick the fourth ending does the god child get angry? Isn't that what he wants you to do? Why does he find the other endings more preferable and the ending where you let things play out enrages him? The god child doesn't bat an eye at the destruction of his own creators, nor at millions of years of genocide.

But you refusing to play along makes him shout in the Harbinger voice? Quite amusing. I imagine that ending as being the middle finger of the bunch. Erected firmly up at the fans who didn't want to play along and rejected all three endings. Just goes to show, Bioware isn't above trolling the fans, so you shouldn't be above trolling Bioware.

It just amuses me so much.

 

[-Dragmire-]

The synthesis ending always felt strange to me. Before the EC I looked at it as a ploy for the reapers to turn all organics into husks and now after the EC where I see that's not the case, it feels like I was the antagonist to Mass Effect 1. It's the dream world Saren was thinking of, his motivation for eternal piece and I kind of fucked that up...


'My' canon ending will always be destroy. My Shep doesn't change his mind because of space kids that tie to his annoying nightmares.

 

[Darkmantle]

The endings still suck. Now they only suck less. Atleast this shit is done with.

Also anyone else feel the refusal ending was Bioware giving a big "fuck you" to the people who called them out on the original shitty endings?

Well the refusal simply takes what the player could expect to happen and makes it happen. The crucible is the last chance of all the galaxy and is the only thing they have left going for them. The last plan hinged on it, and that is where everything was amassed. You were given choices on how to fire it, but if you choose simply not to use it, the Reapers will continue to curbstomp the galaxy as they had been, regardless of how much military effectiveness there was. What else could be done? All that military might was only covering how well the crucible could be protected. Pushing back and defeating the reapers? Wasn't ever a remote possibility, which is why the crucible was made.

doesn't it imply that the next cycle killed the reapers though?

it's not too big a stretch to imagine that if you had a high enough EMS you could still take the reapers with heavy losses.


OT: It's definitely better, but the problem is that I still have a crippling dislike of deus ex machinas, But I guess that fails down to personal bias. EA probably shouldn't have rushed the game.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

If you like the extended cut. Please do pick the refusal ending. I view that ending as Bioware venting it's rage at the fans for being loud enough that they had to go back into the box and edit the cut footage back in.

Just as a question. Why when you pick the fourth ending does the god child get angry? Isn't that what he wants you to do? Why does he find the other endings more preferable and the ending where you let things play out enrages him? The god child doesn't bat an eye at the destruction of his own creators, nor at millions of years of genocide.

But you refusing to play along makes him shout in the Harbinger voice? Quite amusing. I imagine that ending as being the middle finger of the bunch. Erected firmly up at the fans who didn't want to play along and rejected all three endings. Just goes to show, Bioware isn't above trolling the fans, so you shouldn't be above trolling Bioware.

It just amuses me so much.

I'd say he gets angry cos he just asked you to help determine the fate of the galaxy and you essentially gave him the finger. Also in that he's looking for a change of some sort as he says his solution wont work anymore and your refusing to change things. So yeah, he gets angry.

 

[Roboto]

doesn't it imply that the next cycle killed the reapers though?

it's not too big a stretch to imagine that if you had a high enough EMS you could still take the reapers with heavy losses.


OT: It's definitely better, but the problem is that I still have a crippling dislike of deus ex machinas, But I guess that fails down to personal bias. EA probably shouldn't have rushed the game.

Liara had that capsule thing very well thought out with all the information they got from other beacons in stuff, that it is not too much of a stretch to think some form of life found one near the beginning of the next cycle, took it seriously, and started preparing much earlier. Does that mean the Reapers didn't come back way, way, WAY after that by rebuilding? Impossible to tell, that's speculation. All you can tell from it is that they fought those freaky human reapers. The greatest story never told, or Mass Effect 4: Refusal Ending

 

[Timmibal]

To know that my dear Shepard advanced all creation to the supreme point of consciousness? Excellent! Behold Secher Nbiw! Behold the Golden Path!

I think Control embodies Secher Nbiw more than Synthesis. Remember the Golden Path was SUPPOSED to fail eventually. Likewise I give it a few millenia before Shep 'loses' his memories of humanity (They become subsumed in the yottabytes of new data his gestalt intelligence has processed) and starts actively fucking with sapient life for 'the good of the many'.

Synthesis is now my favourite but control is also quite heartwarming.

Heartwarming that your shep is now a God? And a potentially 'Righteous anger and furious vengeance' God of the Old Testament? I mean, He remembers His life prior to 'ascension', but expresses no desire to interact with his old crew or even sapients in general. His sole purpose seems to be being 'The One who can Save the Many'.

Yeah, I see religious crusades in the next few centuries. "Convert now! Receive the blessing of the Glorious and Eternal! Pray for the Beneficence of the Omnissiah! Kneel and give praise to The Shepard, who is God!"

Heartwarming? You worry me...

 

[Darkmantle]

doesn't it imply that the next cycle killed the reapers though?

it's not too big a stretch to imagine that if you had a high enough EMS you could still take the reapers with heavy losses.


OT: It's definitely better, but the problem is that I still have a crippling dislike of deus ex machinas, But I guess that fails down to personal bias. EA probably shouldn't have rushed the game.

Liara had that capsule thing very well thought out with all the information they got from other beacons in stuff, that it is not too much of a stretch to think some form of life found one near the beginning of the next cycle, took it seriously, and started preparing much earlier. Does that mean the Reapers didn't come back way, way, WAY after that by rebuilding? Impossible to tell, that's speculation. All you can tell from it is that they fought those freaky human reapers. The greatest story never told, or Mass Effect 4: Refusal Ending

Don't forget a fleet of the magnitude you brought in would probably kill more reapers than they could replace,

Honestly, if handled right, the refusal ending could be considered the most heroic ending, sacrificing your whole cycle's life, to damage the reapers just enough so that the next cycle can finish them. If portrayed from the angle of "it's too late for our cycle, but we will make room for the next". I honestly would have preferred the catalyst not working and shepard giving that kind of speech to the last of the alliance forces, would be better than the deus ex machina.

It just feels cheap you know, relying on what turned out to be essentially space magic to finish the game. It would have felt better if it was something done under your own power, and not under a god like figure.

 

[I.Muir]

If there was no catalyst the end would be great
Since he is still there the end is still shit
Bio ware obviously thought people were going nuts because the ending was too sad or something and are therefore deluded. They must actually think that ending makes sense or at least somebody more important than the rest does.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

doesn't it imply that the next cycle killed the reapers though?

it's not too big a stretch to imagine that if you had a high enough EMS you could still take the reapers with heavy losses.


OT: It's definitely better, but the problem is that I still have a crippling dislike of deus ex machinas, But I guess that fails down to personal bias. EA probably shouldn't have rushed the game.

Liara had that capsule thing very well thought out with all the information they got from other beacons in stuff, that it is not too much of a stretch to think some form of life found one near the beginning of the next cycle, took it seriously, and started preparing much earlier. Does that mean the Reapers didn't come back way, way, WAY after that by rebuilding? Impossible to tell, that's speculation. All you can tell from it is that they fought those freaky human reapers. The greatest story never told, or Mass Effect 4: Refusal Ending

Don't forget a fleet of the magnitude you brought in would probably kill more reapers than they could replace,

Honestly, if handled right, the refusal ending could be considered the most heroic ending, sacrificing your whole cycle's life, to damage the reapers just enough so that the next cycle can finish them. If portrayed from the angle of "it's too late for our cycle, but we will make room for the next". I honestly would have preferred the catalyst not working and shepard giving that kind of speech to the last of the alliance forces, would be better than the deus ex machina.

It just feels cheap you know, relying on what turned out to be essentially space magic to finish the game. It would have felt better if it was something done under your own power, and not under a god like figure.

Therein lies the problem of building an enemy up too much, it becomes hard, perhaps not impossible, but hard to deal with them any other way.

 

[Darkmantle]

doesn't it imply that the next cycle killed the reapers though?

it's not too big a stretch to imagine that if you had a high enough EMS you could still take the reapers with heavy losses.


OT: It's definitely better, but the problem is that I still have a crippling dislike of deus ex machinas, But I guess that fails down to personal bias. EA probably shouldn't have rushed the game.

Liara had that capsule thing very well thought out with all the information they got from other beacons in stuff, that it is not too much of a stretch to think some form of life found one near the beginning of the next cycle, took it seriously, and started preparing much earlier. Does that mean the Reapers didn't come back way, way, WAY after that by rebuilding? Impossible to tell, that's speculation. All you can tell from it is that they fought those freaky human reapers. The greatest story never told, or Mass Effect 4: Refusal Ending

Don't forget a fleet of the magnitude you brought in would probably kill more reapers than they could replace,

Honestly, if handled right, the refusal ending could be considered the most heroic ending, sacrificing your whole cycle's life, to damage the reapers just enough so that the next cycle can finish them. If portrayed from the angle of "it's too late for our cycle, but we will make room for the next". I honestly would have preferred the catalyst not working and shepard giving that kind of speech to the last of the alliance forces, would be better than the deus ex machina.

It just feels cheap you know, relying on what turned out to be essentially space magic to finish the game. It would have felt better if it was something done under your own power, and not under a god like figure.

Therein lies the problem of building an enemy up too much, it becomes hard, perhaps not impossible, but hard to deal with them any other way.

That's the thing though, the reapers weren't even built up to be unstoppable until late into ME3. You killed one in ME1 when you got surprise attacked, with only a handful of human ships. but all of a sudden it takes the entire quarian flotilla 3 volleys in a weak point to kill it? What the HELL man? The reapers just didn't feel right all through ME3, they got about 20x more powerful because space magic basically.

It's one of the reasons why I don't get the amount of people praising the story, I found lots of problems all throughout ME3. It just REEKS of pointless escalation basically. Not only the reapers, but Cerberus for crying out loud!!! Did the writers forget that only 150 people were in Cerberus at the end of me2 (you can ask EDI about it after the joker section), if that, considering you stole their crew and two of their top operatives (miranda and jacob), but now they have enough dudes to take over multiple military installations, assault the citadel itself and raid colonies unopposed? With no real explanation or build up? That's too much for me man.

Honestly, I find the story just overall kind of bad in ME3, and I loved ME1 and ME2

 

[Innegativeion]

Still is a total author avatar though.

Humorously, people have pointed out how appropriate it is that this author avatar essentially throws a temper tantrum when you say that you don't like his endings ^_^