Mass Effect 3: The Wall

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

But how are organics ever supposed to develop to a point where they're capable of accepting Synthesis if they're continually culled just when they're getting good? And how does one individual out of one species of one cycle reaching a specific location demonstrate that every organic being, including plant life, is ready for synthesis? And how precisely is it not forced when Shepard does it? Everyone else doesn't even know what's happening to them been synthesis hits. How precisely do you even become ready for it?

Simply put, "you weren't ready" is a really bad hand wave excuse, especially when there's absolutely no logical reason why successive cycles are more ready. Unless constructing the Crucible is some how evidence of readiness, even though they have no idea what it really does apart from creating energy.

What defines being ready for synthesis? Because if the reasoning is biological, cultural, philosophical or technological then the Reaper cycle runs counter-productive to all of them.

Yeah its not exactly a great excuse, but perhaps its not so much in the way of constant evolution over the cycles that doesn't make sense and more simply that given that Shepard *is* standing right there, the first to do so maybe it was worth giving synthesis another shot. Also given that the catalyst has concluded that its current solution won't work much longer it is perhaps getting a bit more desperate to find another solution, eg synthesis, hence it is more willing to take the chance and try it. This is conjecture of course but it would make a little more sense.

captcha: 'case closed' not sure about that

 

[DEAD34345]

I'm surprised by how much the extended cut has improved things for me. There's still massive, massive plot-holes, but to be honest I don't really care about those as much as I thought I did. This ending actually feels like an ending, and the choice actually feels like a choice this time (since I was told what it actually did, other than changing the colour of an explosion). Unlike the original, it provided closure and felt like it had a resolution. It might still somewhat mediocre, especially compared to the rest of the series, but it's enough for me to feel satisfied that the story has ended.

In fact I've even gotten back the urge to replay the series again, an enthusiasm that was all but destroyed after I first got to the end.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

...Huh. Well, that sounds like a game I wouldn't mind playing. Thanks for sharing.


Pity about Origin, though.

Give Sandboxie a try, it prevents Origin from reading the contents of your hard drive.

 

[MercurySteam]

I too am content with the new endings, though they could've gotten so much more out of this if they'd released them with the original 'finished' product. Synthesis is now my favourite but control is also quite heartwarming. The indoctrination theory was awesome but this is a more realistic solution to the mess that was the shipped ending.

Now time to put my feet up and wait for the next game in the series and the Mass Effect universe is huge so the possibilities are endless. The IP is still good but a sequel is not something we need.

 

[Therumancer]

That's pretty much my final word on the subject for the moment. It's not that "nothing EA/Bioware could have done would have made me happy" it's simply that what I, and many others, want from the series and it's creators is rather transparent and hardly impossible
to give us, or unreasonable in the asking. It's EA/Bioware's obstinante refusal to do right by the fans.

Thing is, there's a difference between doing right by the fans and doing what the fans want and in this case IMO by creating the extended cut they were doing right by the fans, actually changing the ending or adding a 'Shepard wins' ending would actually have been worse. Giving the fans a all happy victory ending that contradicts what they've been saying throughout the game because they asked for it is in my opinion not doing right by the fans.

Incorrect, because the overall message of the game is one of being able to triumph despite the overwhelming odds, no matter how bad it gets, you can always have everything come up roses. That's the problem with the endings is they do not thematically fit the rest of the game series. Had the game been more ambigious to begin with you might be right, but understand that even in "no win scenarios" like the Quarian/Geth conflict it is possible to save everyone.

I suppose on it's own it can be argued that the number of irresolvable problems if you haven't played the previous games might lead one to believe those endings fit, but simply put there should be an option for a perfect ending for those who played the entire series.

Understand that Mass Effect was not intended as a work of dark, gritty, science fiction. It was intended as a spiritual successor to "Knights Of the Old Republic" and to be in the same basic vein as Star Wars. That is to say overwhelmingly bad things happening, but good guys who always pull through in the end... at the most basic level.

The situation here is one where EA/Bioware decided to pretty much take a giant dump on the game and those who played it with those endings. Expanding on a turd, doesn't change that it's still a turd.

It's sort of like the Geth/Quarian thing, in general you have to pick which species is more "worthy" of survival due to their mutually exclusive points of view. You have option A or option B. UNLESS of course you played ME2 and have your buddy Legion which allows you to work out a peace which allows everyone to survive and co-exist peacefully.

In that context if you had played ONLY ME3 and had all of these bad things happening, without guys like Thane, Kasumi, Zaeed, and others changing all of these horrible things for the better, you could say having three sucktastic endings and having to choose which one sucked least might fit... for ME3 on it's own. As a series however you might be given 3 choices, but should have an "option 4" that overrides all the rest, which is pretty much in fitting with the series, and also the central message of what happened through the rest of the game. Instead of just "telling off" the Starchild, how about subverting/destroying the starchild or whatever and just completing the mission as intended and having everyone live happily ever after, with Shepard flying off into the sunset as a proper epic hero?

See, the problem is that anyone who feels these endings fit the series, or represent any kind of integrity on the part of the developers obviously haven't been paying attention to the series.

Basically if EA wants to end this and do right by the fans, they have made a good start by elaborating on the three bad endings. Now they need to go and create "option 4" that allows previous actions throughout the series to overcome that no-win scenario like every other one in the game. That's pretty much the only real way to make this right. It also allows the existing endings to remain in the game for those that happened to like them, and if some game developer really believes those endings fit, they should feel free to mention that in interviews that this is what they thought, but otherwise end the series properly.

At any rate, all QQing aside, EA should keep this in mind when next pondering why people hate them, likewise if (or should I say when) Bioware finds it can't trade on it's reputation anymore and that a lot of it's fanbase has eroded, this is going to be the big one, they annoyed people before with some of their previous game desicians (especially when it comes to DA2) but between this and TORtanic, I suspect they have really slam dunked themselves.

 

[Simonoly]

I enjoyed the EC endings purely because of the added emotional impact that was seriously lacking in the original endings. Sure the writing is still pretty weak and the end choices and consequences of said choices are quite unsophisticated, but at least it's much more substantial than what was there before. Although I will admit that the new 4th ending is beyond terrible.

Also, seeing as we now know that the relays and the citadel do not destroy everything in the local solar systems, why was the Normandy so concerned with escaping the crazy magic energy wave? And the whole scene with the Normandy crashing on the surface of that planet seems kind of pointless now too.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

Incorrect, because the overall message of the game is one of being able to triumph despite the overwhelming odds, no matter how bad it gets, you can always have everything come up roses. That's the problem with the endings is they do not thematically fit the rest of the game series. Had the game been more ambigious to begin with you might be right, but understand that even in "no win scenarios" like the Quarian/Geth conflict it is possible to save everyone.

Point taken. However, firstly I wasn't saying I had a problem with having a victory ending, but that ending should NOT be based off simply your fleet beating theirs. You are correct that succeeding against overwhelming odds is a major theme but you never do it by simply whacking something larger than you till it dies. Some other solution found to defeating them that wasn't simply we fought till we won could be fine.

On that note however the synthesis ending is almost exactly that. It's a full victory and its more of a victory than expected. Of course people could and do argue that forcing synthesis on everyone is wrong but that was part of the idea. Bioware didn't want a black/white ending. Another of the major things throughout mass effect and part of what made it great in my eyes is that you are presented with hard decisions, easiest examples being kaiden/ashley and the geth heretics decision in me2. Or simply when you choose to save or not save the council in me1, knowing that saving them will result in the deaths of many humans. The point I'm trying to make is that I believe there shouldn't be only 1 good ending that is decidedly better than any other. Any of the endings excepting refuse still fit with the succeeding against all odds theme as you do stop the reapers. But they also keep with the theme of having to make difficult decisions.

So yes 'overwhelmingly bad things happening, but good guys who always pull through in the end... at the most basic level.' but that isn't to say that that victory is without cost.

As to the later part of your post, it is fundamentally based on the belief that the endings were absolute rubbish and didn't make sense and didn't fit with the story or themes. Personally I disagree with that and believe that though there were problems with them as a whole they were in no way seriously flawed. However whichever way people believe this it has already been discussed an almost ridiculous amount elsewhere and I doubt there is anything new we could say here about it. So basically whether they have done right by the fans depends entirely on your point of view of whether the endings were satisfactory.

See, the problem is that anyone who feels these endings fit the series, or represent any kind of integrity on the part of the developers obviously haven't been paying attention to the series.

So when you get down to it we disagree on this fundamental point and that causes the rest of the disagreement. I think in this case there isn't any true right answer just opinions. Many people agree with you and many people don't.

 

[RobotDinosaur]

I'm not completely content, but I guess I can say I'm satisfied.

And Susan?

In many ways, I am emotionally closer to her than I am to living, breathing people, and I didn't realize how much I needed to say goodbye to her until I was given the chance.

I cried as Liara placed Shepard's name upon the wall, quiet tears of loss. I'll miss her, but the void left by the original ending has been filled. I am sad, but content.

Goodbye, Commander Shepard. I will miss you.

This. This times 100. Especially with the final goodbye they added with Liara in the Conduit run.

It would sound silly saying it to someone else, but my FemShep will always be in my heart. I'm amazed how much I've come to care for this characters...hence why the original ending was such a stab in the heart.

Also inclined to agree. I had Tali as my LI. It was tough talking to her at the forward base. Then saying a final goodbye to her after she got hit at the beam run, which had a stronger impact on me than the beam run itself. But then seeing the Normandy crew, and her holding the nameplate to go onto the wall of the fallen and not able to put it on the wall... that scene nearly killed me. I went with the Destroy ending, and I was happy to finally be rid of the Reapers. I felt like Shepard's only regret wasn't that he would die to defeat the Reapers - it's that he wouldn't get to come back to Tali after it was all over.
[Though I'd like to think that since they show Shepard surviving the Citadel explosion, maybe he eventually finds his way back to her...]

 

[CanuckWithSideburns]

Very well written!
For my own part, I actually quite enjoyed the original endings. I liked that none of them presented a perfect solution where the Reapers were gone and everything went back to "normal". As a military history buff, I felt it was a very realistic way to end the conflict. Even when some recognizable measure of good comes from a war's conclusion, the scars left on the land and people don't just go away. It's an aspect of war that's often overlooked in storytelling, even when the tale is brilliant. It was a bold choice on BioWare's part and I felt it worked beautifully for a series where no action is without consequence.

I also personally enjoyed the open nature of the original endings. What I got after listening to the Stargazer's tale was that I (and by "I" I of course mean "Tom Shepherd" ) had succeeded. My actions had bought a future for the universe, even if I didn't know exactly what that future was and even if the succeeding generation didn't fully understand what happened. It felt like (here I go again) true history, the idea while my actions had set the framework for the future, what would actually happen wasn't up to me. That's the impression I got and it felt very profound.

I do agree though that the addition of the Normandy scenes gave some much needed closure to that part of the story. I felt it balanced out the intellectual payoff of the original ending with a better emotional payoff.
That's my two cents, anyway.

 

[Kurt Cristal]

I was fully satisfied with the new ending, tears were had. I only regret not bring Liara along for the final mission so I can see if the "get out of here" scene is different because she's a love interest. Ah well.

 

[darthzew]

What's interesting to me is that I'm not done with my Shepard. I based my Shepard on a character I came up with for a novel. Alison is her name. Anyway, Alison and Shepard share a lot of traits. The big one is that they are both lonesome people who are trying to get the universe to stand together. It's an irony.

Anyway, she chose Destroy. She chose destroy because it is the only ending that makes sense besides refusal. The other two are simply decisions that, without knowing the outcomes, anyone could have logically made. But anyway, it's interesting that the Normandy crew mourned Shepard's loss.

Because she chose destroy, Alison Shepard lived on. It's uncertain, really, but I like to think of it that Shepard is dead, but Alison, my character, lives on. She's in a novel I'm writing now and am going to have published online soon.

Mass Effect did wonders for helping design characters. It helped me think like them and make decisions as they would.

 

[Eric Morales]

Joanna Shepard

I have to ask why Joanna? I chose that name for my Shepard due to Perfect Dark and now I cannot finish the article until I know why you chose that name.

Same reason, my friend. In honor of Joanna Dark.

Was she an infiltrator by any chance? I also made a Joanna Shepherd

 

[Metalrocks]

yeah, the dlc wasnt perfect but it did clear things up. i also felt a bit sad to see liara placing shepards name on the memorial board. but at least its a good bye i can accept now. doesnt matter what choice you have made at the end.

yep, bye shepard. you will not be forgotten. including my self, since i have made an shepard trying to look as my self and make choices how i would have made them. talking baout being at your own funeral

 

[EnigmaticSevens]

I, for one, enjoyed being Digital Jesus. Have we learned nothing from the oodles of sci-fi that have poured through our collective psyche. Do ye for get the lessons of the Buggers, of Ender the Speaker for the Dead? Shortsighted xenocide is never the answer. Did the Butlerian Jihad teach you nothing? Even if the fundamental conflict between synthetic and organic results in a human victory, humans must evolve to fulfill the capacity of the artificial life they scorned! Can one watch A.I. and still wonder whether or not this unit has a soul?! What of Sonny? What of Roy and Deckard?!

For those who cry out against Synthesis, you demonstrate a fundamental error in your understanding! Synthesis is not conformity, it does not bend to one standard or another, it blends both into a new paradigm. As a microbiology student, I can assure you that this is one hundred percent, Grade A, board certified bullshit, but damn if it ain't a fine thing to ponder! Meshing digital and analogue systems so thoroughly that they become indistinguishable? Madness! But glorious madness! Perhaps our major macromolecules are no longer lipids, proteins, carbohydrates and nucleic acids, perhaps they now include silicates! I've got no fuckin' clue, but you know what? That makes me happy, because sci-fi is all about pushing the limits of the conceivable. Hell, Synthesis is a fine premise for any number games, movies or books.

To know that my dear Shepard advanced all creation to the supreme point of consciousness? Excellent! Behold Secher Nbiw! Behold the Golden Path!

*foams at the mouth, collapses in a glorious heap*

 

[alik44]

Meh C+ to maybe a low B-

But all an all they did give us closure.......not great closure not bad closure just closure

 

[1337mokro]

If you like the extended cut. Please do pick the refusal ending. I view that ending as Bioware venting it's rage at the fans for being loud enough that they had to go back into the box and edit the cut footage back in.

Just as a question. Why when you pick the fourth ending does the god child get angry? Isn't that what he wants you to do? Why does he find the other endings more preferable and the ending where you let things play out enrages him? The god child doesn't bat an eye at the destruction of his own creators, nor at millions of years of genocide.

But you refusing to play along makes him shout in the Harbinger voice? Quite amusing. I imagine that ending as being the middle finger of the bunch. Erected firmly up at the fans who didn't want to play along and rejected all three endings. Just goes to show, Bioware isn't above trolling the fans, so you shouldn't be above trolling Bioware.

It just amuses me so much.

 

[-Dragmire-]

The synthesis ending always felt strange to me. Before the EC I looked at it as a ploy for the reapers to turn all organics into husks and now after the EC where I see that's not the case, it feels like I was the antagonist to Mass Effect 1. It's the dream world Saren was thinking of, his motivation for eternal piece and I kind of fucked that up...


'My' canon ending will always be destroy. My Shep doesn't change his mind because of space kids that tie to his annoying nightmares.

 

[Darkmantle]

The endings still suck. Now they only suck less. Atleast this shit is done with.

Also anyone else feel the refusal ending was Bioware giving a big "fuck you" to the people who called them out on the original shitty endings?

Well the refusal simply takes what the player could expect to happen and makes it happen. The crucible is the last chance of all the galaxy and is the only thing they have left going for them. The last plan hinged on it, and that is where everything was amassed. You were given choices on how to fire it, but if you choose simply not to use it, the Reapers will continue to curbstomp the galaxy as they had been, regardless of how much military effectiveness there was. What else could be done? All that military might was only covering how well the crucible could be protected. Pushing back and defeating the reapers? Wasn't ever a remote possibility, which is why the crucible was made.

doesn't it imply that the next cycle killed the reapers though?

it's not too big a stretch to imagine that if you had a high enough EMS you could still take the reapers with heavy losses.


OT: It's definitely better, but the problem is that I still have a crippling dislike of deus ex machinas, But I guess that fails down to personal bias. EA probably shouldn't have rushed the game.

 

[lord Claincy Ffnord]

If you like the extended cut. Please do pick the refusal ending. I view that ending as Bioware venting it's rage at the fans for being loud enough that they had to go back into the box and edit the cut footage back in.

Just as a question. Why when you pick the fourth ending does the god child get angry? Isn't that what he wants you to do? Why does he find the other endings more preferable and the ending where you let things play out enrages him? The god child doesn't bat an eye at the destruction of his own creators, nor at millions of years of genocide.

But you refusing to play along makes him shout in the Harbinger voice? Quite amusing. I imagine that ending as being the middle finger of the bunch. Erected firmly up at the fans who didn't want to play along and rejected all three endings. Just goes to show, Bioware isn't above trolling the fans, so you shouldn't be above trolling Bioware.

It just amuses me so much.

I'd say he gets angry cos he just asked you to help determine the fate of the galaxy and you essentially gave him the finger. Also in that he's looking for a change of some sort as he says his solution wont work anymore and your refusing to change things. So yeah, he gets angry.