Mass Effect 3's Ending Won't Affect Andromeda

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

This is an obvious decision, since aside from being controversial, the endings are too massive in scope to properly differentiate for future games anyway. Plus, you know, new console generation means they probably can't do the save transfer thing even if they wanted to.

I once came up with an idea for how you could easily integrate the 3 endings into future games without much effort and that would be using them as the in-game difficulty levels. This way you could represent the final choice while providing a narrative justification for a normally non-digetic gameplay aspect. The way I see it, Easy mode would be called "Synthesis" and would be set in a universe where the synthesis event has made everyone stronger, fitter and smarter, explaining why your characters have more health and do more damage. Normal would be Control, where nothing actually changed except for the Reapers turning face, which would be irrelevant in a game set in Andromeda. And Hard mode would be Destruction, where the destruction of synthetic life has had a trickle down effect on the galaxy's technology, making everything weaker and less efficient, thereby making life harder for people.

The obvious issue there is that people might be forced to choose between their preferred difficulty setting and an ending they didn't want. But that shouldn't be a problem because nobody wanted any of those endings anyway. And besides, I reckon the 3 choices line up roughly with the certain playstyles. Anecdotally, the people who picked Synthesis were the ones who took everything at face value and made idealistic choices. They probably play fairly casually and as such wouldn't mind doing the game on Easy. By contrast, Destroyers tended to be the hardline "fuck you Bioware, you ruined everything rah rah rah" types. After years of talking the talk, it would give them a chance to walk the walk. And Control is for people who kept an open mind, didn't let emotions cloud their judgement and wanted to get a balanced outcome that didn't upset the status quo too much. I'll see you in the new utopia, friend.

I guess I'm one of those weird Destroyers who kept an open mind. My choosing Destroy was more of an unwillingness to kill off Shepard after the last talk with the romanced companion, though, rather than any hard-set "story" reason.

Also, transferring across console generations might be doable, as Rock Band 4 was able to do that with the downloadable library. However, even in that case, it only worked within the same company (as in, PS3 to PS4 or 360 to XBone, but not PS3 to XBone or 360 to PS4), so I'd still be left out in the cold unless they did something similar to the Dragon Age Keep...in which case it would be mildly frustrating to have most of the consequences of my choices (and yes, there were consequences. Wrex says hi) be basically meaningless, since I would just be able to pick and choose options to my liking.

 

[SlumlordThanatos]

Oh, I just remembered. When you complete Thessia Joker says something about Tiptree being invaded 2 weeks before that, and whines about his family. The thing is, when you first go to the hospital, there's already a PTSD asari who was stationed at Tiptree talking about murdering a girl to stay alive, who, trivia, is Joker's sister, but that's irrelevant. Now, even being generous, the events of Palaven through Thessia happened in maybe 3 weeks if you do the math.

Who writes this shit and thinks it's not dumb?

Hmm. I must have missed that.

That's kinda bullshit. No fucking way that a war of extinction against an implacable, innumerable, technologically-superior foe over the space of an entire freaking galaxy only takes a few months.

If you read the codex, it points out that current FTL technology still requires days of travel from an inhabited planet to reach a mass relay (unless you got lucky, like Earth was). At those speeds, it would take centuries to make it to a neighboring galaxy. It's also worth noting that Reapers also travel at about that speed, which means it takes them a very long time to cover the entire galaxy.

And on top of that shit sandwich, they somehow managed to build the Crucible and the Ark (both super-massive feats of engineering) in the space of eight months or so? By comparison, a Gerald R. Ford class supercarrier took 11 years to complete. Desperation might speed up production some, but super-massive engineering ain't no picnic.

They need more people checking their facts.

 

[Vykrel]

kind of like how the first three Mass Effect games didnt affect Mass Effect 3's ending.

 

[Jute88]

How long did the Reaper War even last? Weeks? Months? That would assume that the Andromeda ship was being made well before the Reapers showed up. Also, was it established anywhere that the current Milky Way Aliens had cryotechonology? I know that the Protheans had it.

We don't know for certain, but Javik said that it took the Reapers centuries to subjugate the Protheans. And considering how big the Crucible was, and the amount of experimental technology poured into it, the Reaper War had to have lasted at least a few years. My guess would be somewhere in the neighborhood of five years or so.

The biggest war ever, didn't even last a full year. God, what a joke. And they supposedly built the giant space move controller AND the (3?) arks they sent to Andromeda in that time. ME has straight up turned into illogical space magic fantasy instead of sci-fi.

It kind of reminds me of the Shadow War in Babylon 5. The war was supposed to last longer, but with the threat of cancellation, they had to resolve it quickly, so that they would have time to cover the human civil war and end it. season 4 was way too rushed.

 

[infohippie]

On a different note, I wonder how Bioware are going to make people care about his game. I expect it to be very good, but Mass Effect was almost entirely about it's characters and the gameplay was relatively basic. Without Shepard and chums what exactly is the draw?

Of course the new crew could be every bit as charming as the old one, but even if they are Bioware still have to convince everyone of it.

I was thinking this as I read the article. If it doesn't feature my blue space waifu, what's the point?

 

[JamesStone]

Speaking as one of the people that got most downright angry at the fucking ending in this site (I literally spent a good 30 minutes alternating between talking and screaming to the screen about how it made no fucking sense - something that was helped by the fact I took the weekend off to play the damned thing and was tired as hell when I reached the ending) - Good. Thank God.

Mass Effect is a great franchise with a lot of potential. This soft reboot, while still making me angry inside for acknowledging what the ME3 endings had already told me - that the 120+ hours I spent on the original trilogy were worthless - is pretty much the best chance the franchise has to start fresh, and the thing I wanted - either a free ending and post ending DLC based on the Indocrination Theory and what each choice actually meant OR a re-release of Mass Effect 3 with the endings and a few other things fixed - is impossible and would never have happened.



I'm glad they're doing this, but I'll wait a long time for reviews and for the hype to cool down before buying it, I refuse to fall for the same shit twice.

 

[Adam Jensen_v1legacy]

Big surprise there. Aknowledge one ending, people will be upset. Aknowledge no ending, people will be upset. It's a no-win battle.

And that they didn't predict that when they fucked with ME ending is entirely their fault. It's also their fault that they're unable to make a game that's set during the events of one of the first two games, and just make it a smaller and more personal story. It's their fault that they're only able to write about these "end of the fuckin' world, everything is at stake hold on to your very lives" stories. So yeah, fuck Bioware for ruining the original trilogy and for lying about it beforehand and fuck them from running away from their own mess and expecting that everybody just plays along.

These people have an entire fuckin' galaxy to play with and billions of possible characters. And the best they could come up with is going to another galaxy because they fucked up with ME3 ending. Does anybody here have any idea how absolutely enormous the galaxy is because it seems that Bioware has no fuckin' clue. Like it never even crossed their minds to do anything other than a sequel. Jesus fuckin' Christ how lazy and stupid is that? Are there any competent writers left there?

 

[votemarvel]

You want to know what I hate about Bioware's recent games more than anything?

It's that none of them have been bad enough for me to give up on them.

They have for me slipped from buy without question to wait and see.

It's not even as if I think the game have been bad, it's just that they clearly not making games for me any longer with a huge shift to the action side of the RPG genre. If that's what makes them the money they need to stay in business then good luck to them, but as I said I'll just wait and see on any future purchase.

In an alternate universe, BioWare has announced that Andromeda canonizes one of the endings of Mass Effect 3. Fan whining proves to be just as strong there. The space time continuum throws up its hands and says "okay kids, play on my lawn."

I don't see why that would happen. They canonised events in the Dragon Age Franchise, stretching into the spin off media too, and most people seem happy with that.

So...why are they telling us to "hold on to your save games" if they're not acknowledging the endings?

Are we just getting bits and pieces of lore and alterations based on what happened up until these Arcs or whatever launched? Is that what they're doing? Does that make much sense when they couldn't be bothered to acknowledge/alter the game in an appreciable manner for even major decisions in ME3?

Wait, oh god, Ryder (that is...that is definitely a name, Bioware, good job) is probably an N7 operative who trained with or served under Shepard and the save is literally just going to be used for face data/flashbacks with Shep in a mentor role or whatever, isn't it? D:

They couldn't even get face imports right from ME2 to ME3 and those games used the same engine in Unreal 3.

I'd hate to see the abominations they'd create importing from Unreal to Frostbite.

 

[bladestorm91]

They should have just redone Mass Effect 3, that ending is a giant stain on the series and they should remove it.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Star Ocean?
Final Fantasy XIII?
Deus Ex?

You do say "sci-fantasy" though, which is a different thing from "science fiction," which Mass Effect fits. I think games like Final Fantasy XIII would fit the definition of "sci-fa," while most FF games are just plain fantasy. Not sure about Star Ocean though - haven't played enough to determine whether I'd classify it as sci-fa or sci-fi. And just a glance at Deus Ex puts it firmly in the sci-fi end of the spectrum.

I wouldn't classify Deus Ex as an RPG at all - it's more of an FPS with RPG elements (then again; one could say Mass Effect is just a 3rdP shooter with RPG elements... ).

FF has always just been fantasy, surely, and I've no idea about Star Ocean as I know the name but couldn't ever recognise any iterations of it - it's not exactly notable in the mainstream/populist West, either, so it's not something that would ever battle head to head with a series like Mass Effect (nor would FF, nor does DE).

As for definitions? I've just always been very uncomfortable calling ME sci-fi. Breaking the laws of relativity is almost a given for all space set stories, given the romantic vision of exploration/travel and civilisations spanning the galaxy simply couldn't exist otherwise.

However, the mass effect concept and biotics are nothing but 'because reasons' space magic, and Newtonian law is violated every single time the Normandy makes any manoeuvre. See also goofy stuff like Miranda and Liara entering hostile environments in nothing but their normal apparel and a breather. Mass Effect almost has a disdain for the sci- of sc-fi, so for me it just doesn't do enough to qualify.

 

[Hawki]

FF has always just been fantasy, surely, and I've no idea about Star Ocean as I know the name but couldn't ever recognise any iterations of it - it's not exactly notable in the mainstream/populist West, either, so it's not something that would ever battle head to head with a series like Mass Effect (nor would FF, nor does DE).

As for definitions? I've just always been very uncomfortable calling ME sci-fi. Breaking the laws of relativity is almost a given for all space set stories, given the romantic vision of exploration/travel and civilisations spanning the galaxy simply couldn't exist otherwise.

However, the mass effect concept and biotics are nothing but 'because reasons' space magic, and Newtonian law is violated every single time the Normandy makes any manoeuvre. See also goofy stuff like Miranda and Liara entering hostile environments in nothing but their normal apparel and a breather. Mass Effect almost has a disdain for the sci- of sc-fi, so for me it just doesn't do enough to qualify.

Final Fantasy as a series is predominantly fantasy. However, exceptions exist. The Spirits Within is science fantasy or soft sci-fi, depending on where you draw the line. I've never played it, but looking at FFXIII, it does strike me as more science fantasy than straight up fantasy due to the proliferation of advanced technology.

Now, concerning Mass Effect, where one draws the line on the speculative fiction spectrum* is down to personal preference, but I'd disagree with your assertion that biotics are "just because" - great length is taken to explain how they work (dark energy, element zero, etc.). Manauvers I think fall under creative licence, and appearance may be down to either gratification, or lack of time/effort on alternate suits. However, Mass Effect is undoubtedly sci-fi in my mind, because it relies on sci-fi tropes/ideals, and it spends a lot of time and effort explaining how its universe functions, ranging from its codex entries to planetary descriptions. I can classify Mass Effect as soft sci-fi, on a similar level as Star Trek, but it doesn't enter sci-fa territory for me.

*Which can broadly be classified as:

-Hard sci-fi
-Soft sci-fi
-Science fantasy
-Low fantasy
-High fantasy

That's an extremely general description, but they're the five major categories on the spectrum in my eyes. Any sci-fi or fantasy sub-genre can usually be grouped under one of those five.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Now, concerning Mass Effect, where one draws the line on the speculative fiction spectrum* is down to personal preference...

/



*Which can broadly be classified as:

-Hard sci-fi
-Soft sci-fi
-Science fantasy
-Low fantasy
-High fantasy

That's an extremely general description, but they're the five major categories on the spectrum in my eyes. Any sci-fi or fantasy sub-genre can usually be grouped under one of those five.

Sure, so for me ME just doesn't qualify as sci-fi. Or, perhaps it represents what sci-fi became, and I rather resent that. If Mass Effect is any form of sci-fi, then it is the very softest and squishiest sci-fi possible.

...but I'd disagree with your assertion that biotics are "just because" - great length is taken to explain how they work (dark energy, element zero, etc.).

Eezo's positive and negative behaviour is a cheat, but given it's a made up element I suppose they have license to decide how it may be exploited. But to me what's offered in the Codex's is little more than a 'just because' justification for a kind of Force analogue.

Manauvers I think fall under creative licence, and appearance may be down to either gratification, or lack of time/effort on alternate suits.

Then why, in ME2, explicitly state - aloud - to any remotely inquisitive player the basics of Newtonian law? That was a good yet all too brief example of spec-fic, or hard sci-fi (what I'd just term sci-fi); speculating rationally and logically on how life amongst the stars may really be like, specifically in this instance where military engagements are concerned - that a projectile can never be 'fire and forget' in space, given once it's moving it won't ever stop until it hits something/is affected by another force).

The Codex entries for ship engagements are also peppered with some interesting spec-fic/hard sci-fi, and yet in cutscenes all we ever get is fanciful - fantastical - pew-pew at 'knife fight' ranges. ME's lore and what is shown in gameplay and during cutscenes is so often contrary. I'm pretty sure no mass accelerated rounds would ever behave as they do in the game, either, at least on all targets without shields or armour due to issues with energy transfer; the energy generated at that speed at that range would surely vaporise sections of targets and/or simply over-penetrate to barely any worthwhile effect on target (possibly going on to punch holes in ship hulls, mind), depending on exactly how the 'bullets' deform to transfer energy.

There isn't any purpose or need for mass accelerated rounds if the end result is exactly the same as a ballistic round (see all the headshots and suicides in the series).

ME's writers simply didn't think most of their own rules through.

However, Mass Effect is undoubtedly sci-fi in my mind, because it relies on sci-fi tropes/ideals, and it spends a lot of time and effort explaining how its universe functions, ranging from its codex entries to planetary descriptions. I can classify Mass Effect as soft sci-fi, on a similar level as Star Trek, but it doesn't enter sci-fa territory for me.

When I see Newtonian law completely ignored, when I hear sound in space, and when people are wandering about alien crafts in orbit around brown dwarves with just a breather all I see is fantasy.

Btw, as low as my opinion is of the series' lip-service to science fiction, I enjoyed the world and the characters more than enough to keep replaying the trilogy.

 

[TilMorrow]

Flynn said, "Dragon Age: Origins was six years. Star Wars: The Old Republic was six years. The original Mass Effect was four. Maybe we're just not the fastest at this!" Bioware has since confirmed that we won't see much more from Andromeda until until November 7, the franchise's annual N7 Day celebration.

He says this but seems to forget that Dragon Age: Origin's launch was overshadowed by Mass Effect 2 (Mustn't forget the emphasis on the Blood Dragon Armour), that TOR took that long and even longer before that because they couldn't settle on doing a single player RPG again or go with the mmo format on top of having to convince SOE to close SWGs servers and, although this may have just been personal bias, Mass Effect wasn't nearly as hyped up or advertised as it's sequels. Maybe people are impatient for up to date information after the problems they had with the last few games you've made?

Personally I've not really kept up with Mass Effect stuff since three so lack of details isn't twisting my nose.

All I know is that the Asari in this game apparently took a VERY different evolutionary turn.

Spoiler

Seriously, that is a man's face.

Or just a really bad camera angle. Maybe they decided to add some variation to the Asari this time around instead of going with default varied shade of blue space goddess?

 

[CaitSeith]

I have really low expectations for ME Andromeda. It could end up being a generic third-person shooter with no stats, leveling, weaponry or crew selection, and I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[CaitSeith]

Oh, I just remembered. When you complete Thessia Joker says something about Tiptree being invaded 2 weeks before that, and whines about his family. The thing is, when you first go to the hospital, there's already a PTSD asari who was stationed at Tiptree talking about murdering a girl to stay alive, who, trivia, is Joker's sister, but that's irrelevant. Now, even being generous, the events of Palaven through Thessia happened in maybe 3 weeks if you do the math.

Who writes this shit and thinks it's not dumb?

Hmm. I must have missed that.

That's kinda bullshit. No fucking way that a war of extinction against an implacable, innumerable, technologically-superior foe over the space of an entire freaking galaxy only takes a few months.

If you read the codex, it points out that current FTL technology still requires days of travel from an inhabited planet to reach a mass relay (unless you got lucky, like Earth was). At those speeds, it would take centuries to make it to a neighboring galaxy. It's also worth noting that Reapers also travel at about that speed, which means it takes them a very long time to cover the entire galaxy.

And on top of that shit sandwich, they somehow managed to build the Crucible and the Ark (both super-massive feats of engineering) in the space of eight months or so? By comparison, a Gerald R. Ford class supercarrier took 11 years to complete. Desperation might speed up production some, but super-massive engineering ain't no picnic.

They need more people checking their facts.

Err.... does the word "fiction" mean anything no more? No? OK, just checking.

 

[CaitSeith]

Generally this is a big FUCK YOU from Bioware. You made choices? You did something in previous games? Well, fuck you, it's meaningless! It's a foul move on so many levels I don't even know where to start.

Actually, the big "FUCK YOU" came when they let us shoot that smug little hologram, and apparently that's the "WAAAH! WHY DON'T YOU LIKE YOUR CHOICES? I'LL DROP ROCKS ON EVERYTHING YOU LOVE!" ending.

Personally that's the ending I prefer. It certainly gives a much better sense of closure than any of the original ones.

 

[Ishigami]

Good news for me.

 

[The Raw Shark]

Generally this is a big FUCK YOU from Bioware. You made choices? You did something in previous games? Well, fuck you, it's meaningless! It's a foul move on so many levels I don't even know where to start.

Actually, the big "FUCK YOU" came when they let us shoot that smug little hologram, and apparently that's the "WAAAH! WHY DON'T YOU LIKE YOUR CHOICES? I'LL DROP ROCKS ON EVERYTHING YOU LOVE!" ending.

Personally that's the ending I prefer. It certainly gives a much better sense of closure than any of the original ones.

Same. It gave me closure in knowing BioWare would rather throw a tantrum and then churn out Shitquisition out of spite rather than accept that nobody liked any of the endings they wrote before.