Mass Effect 3's Ending Won't Affect Andromeda

[Darth Rosenberg]

Films are firmly in the "hard" end of the sci-fi spectrum right now (Gravity, Interstellar, The Martian, Passengers, Space Between Us, etc.), and the only "soft" ones are either adaptations (e.g. Guardians of the Galaxy) or sequels (Independence Day, Star Trek, etc.)

I can't comment given I've only seen one of those you cite as hard sci-fi (Interstellar, which I'd just call sci-fi).

Generally I prefer "soft" because I find that in the "hard" end, writers tend to put scientific accuracy before storytelling or characters.

I disagree Interstellar does that at all, but I'll get to that next.

Interstellar being another example. The film is drek.

Well, it's one of my favourite films (maybe my favourite sci-fi?) and I think it's arguably Nolan's best, or at least level with The Dark Knight and Inception - so we differ on that a tad.

I can give it kudos for its ambition, but its characters are dull, it's got plotholes you can drive a starship through, the sound design is awful, and the writing is 50% platitudes, 50% incoherent mumbling (it's hardly a coincidence that the best scene in the film, where Cooper is watching his son's videos, is where for once, there isn't any dialogue).

I feel it's an absolute masterpiece of sound design in particular - one of the greatest examples of sound in sci-fi contemporary or classic. They find remarkably subtle, nuanced ways to deal with the vacuum of space, imparting a sense of physicality with meticulous cuts from external to internal (or vice versa) during certain operations that would create sound. Listened to on a good set of headphones, the soundscape's absolutely incredible.

Hands down my favourite, er, launch/lift-off sequence of all time, too, given there is no bland convention catered to, i.e. remaining in a capsule for a countdown, and perhaps cutting back and forth between locations. Nolan, his editors and Zimmer instead build the entire sequence seamlessly as an emotional beat, with the inertia and momentum provided by Cooper's truck as the score rises. For me that's one of Nolan's finest sequences, and it'll likely remain so throughout his career (the [explosive] docking sequence is also phenomenal).

Interstellar arguably provided everything I could ever want from proper sci-fi, and with a sense of grandeur and humanity that I've never really seen anywhere else. In many ways it feels like a Kubrick film directed by Terrence Malick.

If you're judging Interstellar for scientific accuracy, then yes, it does fairly well there - it's at least aware of the rules of space travel (e.g. time dilation) and mostly complies to them. However, it's a work of fiction. As a work of fiction, the fiction has to come before the science.

Clearly I disagree; I believe it does what the best sci-fi should do - allow science and drama to reinforce one another. The science provides truly alien scenarios (effects of gravity/time, how a black hole could genuinely look like - with a few concessions to scale for audience readability - one of the best visual models of what a large, stable wormhole would look like, extreme tidal forces on water worlds, etc), and for me the characters and script gave a potent emotional throughline (Nolan tends to be a bit of a robotic bloke with emotionality in his films, but Interstellar's an exception).

Kip Thorne's book on the film's science (he was a producer and advisor on it. without him the film may never have even been made, at least not in its current form, given the kernal of the project came from him and a friend) is also fascinating, and makes the film even richer and more rewarding.

-I very much enjoy Battlestar Galactica, but its strengths and weaknesses are different from the issues you mention. The sound muffling is something I noticed, but it's hardly make or break for me. I highly regard BSG because it's a mix of hard sci-f on one end, and spirituality/mystique on the other, and overall, it works. Season 4 is the weakest, but for me, the reason is that it feels like two seasons compressed into one (e.g. Gaeta's mutiny barely has any buildup to it). I attribute that to the writer's strike more than anything.

Unsurprisingly, whilst I absolutely respected BSG's approach to religion and mysticism, I'd have preferred the show without most of those elements. For me it was always best when it was focusing on grounded (arf... ) material and tonality.

-Yes, space is a hostile environment, but I don't think it's beholden to the creator of a work of fiction to automatically be beholden to its limitations.

My point was more about the otherness of space. It is an alien environment - completely unrelatable to almost all humans from our beginning to right now. Why undermine it? Why ground it? Why compromise the awe inspiring reality of the cosmos to silly pew-pew's and ships banking and pitching like planes?

I'd argue it is an ignorant approach to the cosmos. Is that natural, given the level of most peoples understanding of the subject? Perhaps, and I wonder that if our species ever does spread out amongst the stars (I'm skeptical on that note), will future generations look back and see the eras of pew-pew as slightly embarrassing and delusional. In that sense I'm daft to expect anything else, but, sod it, it is what it is.

I'm fine with either option. Farscape is one such example - it acknowledges that ships can go faster than the speed of light, mentions that our understanding of the light barrier is wrong, and gets on with the story (similar to Blake's 7). I'm fine with that, because in Farscape's case, it's far more interested in telling an interesting story with interesting characters rather than using space as the be all and end all of its fiction.

Eh, I loathed Farscape (and Babylon 5), so I'm not the best person to make any comment on that show. ;-) I wonder if I'd be able to appreciate it more if I saw it now, but I'm in no rush to find out.

-My dislike of 2001 is on the same level as Interstellar, or at least, the film version. I love the book though, and I quite like 2010 (the film), but the reasons I love the book are for reasons other than scientific accuracy. The scientific accuracy is a plus, but the book manages to have engaging characters and engaging writing. Something is always happening. Even if you judge them solely based on scientific accuracy, you have to deal with the monoliths, wormholes, and space babies.

And yes, I "get" that the protagonist of 2001 is humanity itself. If you want me to describe its plot and themes, then yes, that leaves me with a lot to talk about. However, as taboo as this may be, I just find 2001 a drear to get through. I can admire it conceptually, but in terms of execution? Not so much.

Clearly it's an all time classic, but I've never been a fan of Kubrick's in general (ditto Hitchcock; they're both absolute genuises, but they gravely lack humanity when compared to someone like Kurosawa. I can only admire and respect Hitchcock and Kubrick, never love their work). I read the book as a kid, so have absolutely no memory of how it compares to the film - and I've not seen the film from start to finish for well over a decade.

I did see the first hour or so on TV a few months back and enjoyed what I saw immensely, even if it remains resolutely Kubrickian. Looking forward to seeing it on Blu-ray sometime with headphones.

 

[BoogieManFL]

Just like your playthough of Mass Effect 1 and 2 doesn't affect the ending of Mass Effect 3!

AMIRIGHT GUYS?!

 

[votemarvel]

I think that is one of the problems with the shipped endings that gets overlooked.

The game just looks at your war asset numbers and that's it. It recognises that you played but not how you played and that for me was a big disappointment.

A pure paragon or pure renegade gets the exact same conversation with the Hologram Kid, how does that make sense?

They managed it in Mass Effect 1, how you played changes how the Council or Udina speak about events after the destruction of Sovereign. Yet in the finale of the trilogy, they can't manage to change things up to even that small a degree?

The Extended Cut doesn't even change that, but at least it adds epilogue slides to you can see the results of your actions.

 

[crimsonspear4D]

Okay, the only thing I just want to know is do the REAL CHOICES in the ME trilogy matter: the Krogan genophage cure, the Quarian/Geth resolution, my FemShepard/Liara shipping damn it... will ANY of this gonna be cannon?

 

[Jute88]

i guess they will give us different coloured explosions for andromeda. maybe pink, yellow and brown.

Oh man, I don't wanna know what gives you the brown ending.

Spoilers, Shepard doesn't flush in the end.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

i guess they will give us different coloured explosions for andromeda. maybe pink, yellow and brown.

Oh man, I don't wanna know what gives you the brown ending.

Spoilers, Shepard doesn't flush in the end.

Ugh. What is it with heroes and not taking in a proper amount of soluble fiber? And I thought Wrex was bad.

 

[pookie101]

im fine with a fresh start but yeah i learnt my lesson with preordering the retail version of the collectors edition.. everything in it was a "heres a teaser now go gives us money for the full thing"

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

Makes sense to me. Just think practically, you can't keep branching out forever based on previous choices. Especially when it's starting a new story, it's kind of hard to make any ME3 decisions really matter.

I think it's fair to want to start a new story with a bit more of a clean slate.

 

[ZeD [taken 0]]

All I know is that the Asari in this game apparently took a VERY different evolutionary turn.

http://i.imgur.com/cdF8z3H.png

Seriously, that is a man's face.

I don't see it.
I don't find her particularly attractive, but it's definitely a girl's face.
I'd take her over Liara's "dad".

 

[MythicMatt]

This is actually the best thing I've heard about ME:A, and it's the only confirmed information.

But, if Andromeda ends up part of a series where the final part pays as much attention to your actions as ME3, it's gonna be another shitstorm.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

All I know is that the Asari in this game apparently took a VERY different evolutionary turn.

http://i.imgur.com/cdF8z3H.png

Seriously, that is a man's face.

I don't see it.
I don't find her particularly attractive, but it's definitely a girl's face.
I'd take her over Liara's "dad".

With THAT Jawline? Good gravy man, without my bear I have a more feminine face than that!

 

[ZeD [taken 0]]

All I know is that the Asari in this game apparently took a VERY different evolutionary turn.

http://i.imgur.com/cdF8z3H.png

Seriously, that is a man's face.

I don't see it.
I don't find her particularly attractive, but it's definitely a girl's face.
I'd take her over Liara's "dad".

With THAT Jawline? Good gravy man, without my bear I have a more feminine face than that!

I honestly can't tell if you're being funny or not.

 

[Metalix Knightmare]

All I know is that the Asari in this game apparently took a VERY different evolutionary turn.

http://i.imgur.com/cdF8z3H.png

Seriously, that is a man's face.

I don't see it.
I don't find her particularly attractive, but it's definitely a girl's face.
I'd take her over Liara's "dad".

With THAT Jawline? Good gravy man, without my bear I have a more feminine face than that!

I honestly can't tell if you're being funny or not.

I'm not. I even showed that pic to just about every woman I know. That is a dude's jaw.

 

[ZeD [taken 0]]

All I know is that the Asari in this game apparently took a VERY different evolutionary turn.

http://i.imgur.com/cdF8z3H.png

Seriously, that is a man's face.

I don't see it.
I don't find her particularly attractive, but it's definitely a girl's face.
I'd take her over Liara's "dad".

With THAT Jawline? Good gravy man, without my bear I have a more feminine face than that!

I honestly can't tell if you're being funny or not.

I'm not. I even showed that pic to just about every woman I know. That is a dude's jaw.

It's a coarse one, but still too soft to be a man's jaw.
Plus, every other feature is positively female.

You're exaggerating this.

 

[Street Halo]

All I know is that the Asari in this game apparently took a VERY different evolutionary turn.

Seriously, that is a man's face.

I've had this conversation elsewhere and most say she looks like the average woman and I just thank my lucky stars the average woman in Melbourne doesn't look like Shrek.

 

[Czann]

They've been ignoring or paying lip service to all decisions players made in all games so I nothing changed.

 

[sumanoskae]

"We want this to be a new story and it would be very hard to say it's a new story but also that you need to understand how [the past trilogy] ended."

Yeah, bullshit; Bioware never planned to extend the Mass Effect franchise beyond a trilogy, that's why they never prepared for it, and that's why they thought three endings with radically different implications wouldn't cause a problem. This kind of "We meant to do that" bullshit reeks of executive meddling.

As for the news itself, I am conflicted. On the one hand, choice and consequence was at the core of what made the Mass Effect trilogy so deeply affecting; on the other hand, I would sooner cannibalize my own genitals than again endure the misery that was the ending to Mass Effect 3, and I would very much like to forget about it.

Further more, I'm not sure it's even... possible to engineer a game that could account for three scenarios that are so radically different. It would essentially have to include 3 different stories. Back when I first finished ME:3 I considered the possibility that if a sequel was ever produced, Bioware might opt to make 3 different games, one for each ending. Come to think of it though, that sounds like the kind of thing that, say, CD Projekt Red might be down for, but definitely not EA.

Personally, I think the Gundam approach would have been a good compromise; just set every Mass Effect game series in an alternate continuity, each one connected only by shared iconography, settings and themes. But that would require that Bioware and EA make use of some degree of artistic ambition, and even though Bioware will always have a special place in my heart, let's not pretend that they haven't spent the last decade or so running in place with their storytelling, counting on their (Generally) impeccable form and the occasional flip to keep our attention.

They tried taking a tentative step forward once with DA:II, and when the fanbase didn't immediately drop everything and line up for the ceremonial twat munching session, they officially instituted the practice of publicly executing anyone who can't prove beyond reasonable doubt that they've memorized The Hero with a Thousand Faces word for word.

So if we were ever going to get more Mass Effect, this was probably inevitable.

 

[Gordon_4_v1legacy]

They should have just redone Mass Effect 3, that ending is a giant stain on the series and they should remove it.

Mass Effect 3 Happy Ending Mod [http://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/66/?]. Install and enjoy in good health.

 

[votemarvel]

They should have just redone Mass Effect 3, that ending is a giant stain on the series and they should remove it.

Mass Effect 3 Happy Ending Mod [http://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/66/?]. Install and enjoy in good health.

I'd recommend John P's Alternate MEHEM http://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/265/? as it contains two options. The first leaves the endings substantially intact, turning the High EMS Destroy ending into the Shepard lives scenes from the original MEHEM.

The second does exactly what the original does but doesn't have the extra cutscenes that have now been added to it, and to be honest they aren't very good.

Another great mod is the Extended Anderson Conversation http://www.nexusmods.com/masseffect3/mods/173/? which restores the full version of it.

 

[crimsonspear4D]

All I know is that the Asari in this game apparently took a VERY different evolutionary turn.

Seriously, that is a man's face.

I don't see it.
I don't find her particularly attractive, but it's definitely a girl's face.
I'd take her over Liara's "dad".

All I know is that the Asari in this game apparently took a VERY different evolutionary turn.

Seriously, that is a man's face.

I've had this conversation elsewhere and most say she looks like the average woman and I just thank my lucky stars the average woman in Melbourne doesn't look like Shrek.

It might just be me, but I'm seeing literally nothing wrong with her. I mean the asari in-game were basically just female human face models painted blue, so their not supposed to be like unearthly beautiful or anything.

She actually looks realistically attractive, she doesn't have to have some kinda doll-ish, bimbo, animu girl/disney princess look to be explicitly female.