I didn't talk about preferences. I talked about blindly buying something because someone said "we fixed it now". Sorry if you feel offended.SSJBlastoise said:
Microsoft Drops Xbox One DRM Restrictions - UPDATED
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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Things this doesn't solve:
1. That reliance on cloud processing will still require always online connection even in single player experiences. The having to log in once a day would then be completely meaningless.
2. The Kinect is still required and still watching/recording you while you're touching yourself to the next Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball iteration that is integrated with the RIFT (or some equivalent thereof that will of course happen).
3. Online passes will still be allowed and I have a feeling that EA only made their concession with the foreknowledge that Microsoft was going to enforce a preowned death sentence. So we may just see some publishers try their luck at doing what Microsoft shouldn't have tried to do.
4. The system already allowed preowned games. This hasn't changed. They just made publishers able to decide. Any publisher could have allowed the buying and selling of preowned games even under the previous statement Microsoft made but Microsoft's problem is that they're trying to make it the norm. This "we're changing things" may only be lip service. Only if they prevent developers/publishers from doing this will it actually mean anything.
5. The console is still $100 more expensive and yet the competitor, the ps4, is estimated to likely be around 50% more powerful as a machine. Microsoft doesn't deny this, they just claim that cloud computing can make it three or four times more powerful. Not only does Sony have its own cloud processing should its developers need it (and they can dump more money into it according to demand from publishers), but this again brings me to problem # 1.
6. With this change they rolled back the ability to share downloaded games...
7. Their online service still lied to us. They said it gives us 2 games per month in direct competition with Sony's 1 game per month but what they didn't emphasize was the fine print. That's only 360 games and only until December 2013. Then it will likely go back to normal. Sony, on the other hand, has no intention of killing their project.
So I strongy suspect that this is just Microsoft trying to "explain" things better. Not making any actual change. However, they may have also been genuinely relying on Sony to also do the trade in thing (seeing as Sony even made patents along those lines). This may be them adjusting for Sony making a really smart move. That may be the right choice. In any event, I'm afraid they've lost me already and I don't think I'm alone. I will, as they arrogantly recommended, continue to use my 360 going forward next to a ps4.
1. That reliance on cloud processing will still require always online connection even in single player experiences. The having to log in once a day would then be completely meaningless.
2. The Kinect is still required and still watching/recording you while you're touching yourself to the next Dead or Alive Beach Volleyball iteration that is integrated with the RIFT (or some equivalent thereof that will of course happen).
3. Online passes will still be allowed and I have a feeling that EA only made their concession with the foreknowledge that Microsoft was going to enforce a preowned death sentence. So we may just see some publishers try their luck at doing what Microsoft shouldn't have tried to do.
4. The system already allowed preowned games. This hasn't changed. They just made publishers able to decide. Any publisher could have allowed the buying and selling of preowned games even under the previous statement Microsoft made but Microsoft's problem is that they're trying to make it the norm. This "we're changing things" may only be lip service. Only if they prevent developers/publishers from doing this will it actually mean anything.
5. The console is still $100 more expensive and yet the competitor, the ps4, is estimated to likely be around 50% more powerful as a machine. Microsoft doesn't deny this, they just claim that cloud computing can make it three or four times more powerful. Not only does Sony have its own cloud processing should its developers need it (and they can dump more money into it according to demand from publishers), but this again brings me to problem # 1.
6. With this change they rolled back the ability to share downloaded games...
7. Their online service still lied to us. They said it gives us 2 games per month in direct competition with Sony's 1 game per month but what they didn't emphasize was the fine print. That's only 360 games and only until December 2013. Then it will likely go back to normal. Sony, on the other hand, has no intention of killing their project.
So I strongy suspect that this is just Microsoft trying to "explain" things better. Not making any actual change. However, they may have also been genuinely relying on Sony to also do the trade in thing (seeing as Sony even made patents along those lines). This may be them adjusting for Sony making a really smart move. That may be the right choice. In any event, I'm afraid they've lost me already and I don't think I'm alone. I will, as they arrogantly recommended, continue to use my 360 going forward next to a ps4.
So now that they removed the region lock from the Xbone, they're just going to ignore their region lock on Games for Windows live? Was there any mention of the region lock being removed from GFWL as well as I can't seem to find anything about it. It seems highly hypocritical to remove the region lock from their console and yet keep the bloody lock active for PC's.
Hahahahahahahaha! And the nigh-invulnerable shield of stupidity that is Microsoft is finally shattered! While I don't trust MS any further than I could throw their collective staff, even if they backtrack later and slowly, sneakily implement their original dumb ideas, this sets an amazing precedent AND has gotten the gamer community much more involved in standing up for themselves. So some good comes out, horray.
Still not interested in an Xbox One, but at least I won't puke in their mere presence. As much. Still the Kinect to deal with. Get rid of that and I may develop a lack of disgust!
Still not interested in an Xbox One, but at least I won't puke in their mere presence. As much. Still the Kinect to deal with. Get rid of that and I may develop a lack of disgust!
A company with anti consumer policies is still a company that wants to have anti consumer policies even if they decide to change it in a post that barely even recognizes the shit storm they started. Microsoft has already made it clear that it doesn't want me as their customer so I'm not interested in what they're selling especially if there is an alternative out there. They have no interest in consumer rights unless they're forced to be dragged kicking and screaming into the light, so fuck em.
This. So much this. This is exactly what I've been saying to my friends, yes online digital downloads can be good, Steam proves that. But the point they don't seem to be getting is that you still should give consumers a choice, or no choice but massively more convenient. If you make digital more attractive, easiest of all, by making it a damn site cheaper than the physical copy (why are games on XBLA more expensive than physical copies? does all the added production costs lower the price? why does EA charge £59.99* on Origin for games that are six months old? WHY!?).WWmelb said:
However, I don't trust them to make it cheaper, they'll continue charging the same and just pocketing the difference.
Edit: I'd also like to point out that this "faster processing using the power of the cloud" is bullshit too. ANY game that uses online processing will need to be connected ALL THE TIME, and seriously, since when have internet connections become faster than a processor already inside the machine?
Edit. Again: *just thought I'd point out, for our cousins across the pond, the average new release PC game in the UK, on steam or on Amazon, is about £34.99. Origin charging sometimes up to £59.99 is unbelievably expensive.
At leastShadowcreed said:
The ps4 preorders hitting at 2:1 against the Xbone is what did it.conmag9 said:
But there's still so many other problems they need to tackle. This step only puts them back on par with what Sony was already doing in just a few areas. It doesn't make the system magically more powerful and not likely to be reliant on cloud computing in just a few years, it doesn't make the kinect any less required, and it certainly doesn't make the system cheaper despite being weaker.
Somebody call up Hell and find out if the temperature down there went below freezing.
I'm inclined to go with the pack and say "Too little, too late" but I'm willing to be forgiving if the following changes were also implemented:
1) Offer an Xbox One without the Kinect and with a lower price tag.
2) Make it backwards compatible with 360 games and controllers (you'll earn some major brownie points with the FGC since you're bringing Killer Instinct back).
3) Apologize for your disrespectful actions that began with the first Xbox One press conference.
4) FIRE YOUR PR STAFF!
I know its asking for a lot. But if Microsoft wants to stay alive in this console generation, it needs to get its shit together and start fixing their problems like yesterday.
I'm inclined to go with the pack and say "Too little, too late" but I'm willing to be forgiving if the following changes were also implemented:
1) Offer an Xbox One without the Kinect and with a lower price tag.
2) Make it backwards compatible with 360 games and controllers (you'll earn some major brownie points with the FGC since you're bringing Killer Instinct back).
3) Apologize for your disrespectful actions that began with the first Xbox One press conference.
4) FIRE YOUR PR STAFF!
I know its asking for a lot. But if Microsoft wants to stay alive in this console generation, it needs to get its shit together and start fixing their problems like yesterday.
So Who thinks there gonna Have Fine Print in there End User Agreement that Says they can turn those Features back on any time they want?
I would remain VERY cautious with the Killer Instinct thing.Mr. Q said:
http://kotaku.com/killer-instinct-on-xbox-one-is-free-for-your-first-cha-512655221
YEEY free-2-play title with 1 character. also Double Helix is the developer.
They made awesome titles such as Green Lantern: Rise of the Manhunters, Battleship (2012, game from the movie) and other top-quality games.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they're going to 'kill' Killer Instinct.. Oh noes.
After the insults, this isn't enough. I don't care what games are released on it- it's just. Not. Enough.
I've felt seriously insulted by the things MS has said, and how they've said them. From saying that I'm "backwards" because I'll still want to play current games (let alone older ones!) in a year's time, to acting like I don't matter because I fall into the "doesn't have 100% control over their internet" category, the things they've said- and they've said some pretty stupid and insulting shit- have alienated me in a way that would take something big to come back from.
And saying "hey, we're not going to stop you from being able to play games any more" isn't enough.
If they were to make it backwards compatible... I would consider it, but still probably not go for it. If they were to, say, remove the Kinect that I don't want (by making Kinect optional as both a tool and as a purchase) as well, I would probably seriously consider purchasing one once the price started dropping.
But this? This is not even coming close to "enough". Not for me. And I hope not for a lot of others. I would like to see MS have to really scramble and work to pull back any sort of good opinion- but unfortunately, now they've made this move, I think it'll be enough for enough people that MS won't bother trying to fix anything more down the line.
I've felt seriously insulted by the things MS has said, and how they've said them. From saying that I'm "backwards" because I'll still want to play current games (let alone older ones!) in a year's time, to acting like I don't matter because I fall into the "doesn't have 100% control over their internet" category, the things they've said- and they've said some pretty stupid and insulting shit- have alienated me in a way that would take something big to come back from.
And saying "hey, we're not going to stop you from being able to play games any more" isn't enough.
If they were to make it backwards compatible... I would consider it, but still probably not go for it. If they were to, say, remove the Kinect that I don't want (by making Kinect optional as both a tool and as a purchase) as well, I would probably seriously consider purchasing one once the price started dropping.
But this? This is not even coming close to "enough". Not for me. And I hope not for a lot of others. I would like to see MS have to really scramble and work to pull back any sort of good opinion- but unfortunately, now they've made this move, I think it'll be enough for enough people that MS won't bother trying to fix anything more down the line.
1) this may be unrealistic at this time with how they've designed the system to require the kinect be on at ALL times while the machine is on.Mr. Q said:
2) Impossible. Maybe the controllers, sure, but those are pure profit to companies (go ahead and look at how much the new first party controller prices have dropped after 6 years of the consoles existing, answer: none). As for the games being backwards compatible, they claim to have made a significant change in system architecture that would render it impossible. I'm not sure I believe them, but if they suddenly announced that they were making the systems backwards compatible we would all instantly know that they lied to us and were just trying to make us buy EVERYTHING twice. To give some credence to them, they're also x86 machines so perhaps there's truth in not being able to be backwards compatible. That being said, all future consoles will have 0 excuse as x86 is standard pc format. I wouldn't be too surprised if people learned to hack ps4/Xbone disks to be played on powerful consoles. This whole used games bit and the 24-hour check in may habe been to side-step that possibility.
3. That would require them understanding just how insanely rude they came off. They literally told us that consumers are too dumb to care about the details. That they expected this kind of backlash but that their "data" told them that consumers just throw their money around without much thought. The kind of stupidity required to tell reporters that this is your reasoning seems to indicate that they don't understand much of anything.
4. The PR department could absolutely be restructured. This is the biggest console PR nightmare yet. Somebody didn't do their due diligence. The market research team, if there is a seperate one, may be the ones to blame. If they handed PR and the executive horribly wrong data then their misteps could have been overly reliant on that data. This is the same problem publishers are running into with their forecasters convincing them that they can make COD money off an RPG if they just throw enough money at it.
I think that they admitted a mistake and corrected it. Listen, those of you in the "I still am not going to buy it since they planned on screwing us" think about this: They didn't. They did not do the idiotic things they said and backed off. Now, granted, I am sure they backed off for financial reasons and not from the goodness in their hearts, but that is big business. They also cannot later reverse the decision after you buy it. That is a guaranteed class action lawsuit. Further, I guarantee you that Sony made M$ think they were planning something similar and were ready for the attack ads when M$ made the boneheaded move. It worked. That is big business too. Basically, people should just buy whatever system they like the most and not be swayed by PR meant to inflame emotions. From both sides. I am not sure what system I will get. Maybe neither. Maybe both. Maybe only one. But I am certainly not going to be swayed by emotion for a boneheaded decision that was never implemented.
I'm going to throw out a word of caution to whatever XBox fans remain out there. Just because of this big change, I'm suggesting that you might not want be one of the first to unbox this sucker on release day. Let somebody else figure out that it needs a 3 day download, and if you enter a code in the microwave for nachos it bricks itself. Because even the most jaded voice of practical experience is quietly screaming that this is going to be a rough launch now.
Please remember, up until Monday at least they were still pushing this as the greatest group of features ever that would change our lives. Then Wednesday they do a 180 and declare all of the DRM is gone, and you can share and sell disks. Well common sense says that there is no way that is true yet. By Wednesday an executive decision had been made to remove the DRM. It is highly unlikely that they have anything ready yet. The engineers are just starting to look at it today. And it probably hits a lot of subsystems. Remember games fully install on the HDD. Games may be looking for call home features or DRM call outs. The games were designed to the XBox One specs. It is doubtful that they simply had a magic switch ready to just turn it all off overnight. (Seriously did anything in any public statement leave you thinking that maybe this was an optional feature and they had a backup plan?). So this is not simply throwing a switch to turn off DRM. This is basically developing a new feature to eliminate and replace the prior one. Less than 6 months before the street date. With the consoles already starting production at the factories and the games starting to head towards gold versions. They might pull it off? But common sense and experience tells me that at best it will be a poorly tested and validated rough ride. And if I were you, I would elect to not be the first clown lined up for the rodeo.
Please remember, up until Monday at least they were still pushing this as the greatest group of features ever that would change our lives. Then Wednesday they do a 180 and declare all of the DRM is gone, and you can share and sell disks. Well common sense says that there is no way that is true yet. By Wednesday an executive decision had been made to remove the DRM. It is highly unlikely that they have anything ready yet. The engineers are just starting to look at it today. And it probably hits a lot of subsystems. Remember games fully install on the HDD. Games may be looking for call home features or DRM call outs. The games were designed to the XBox One specs. It is doubtful that they simply had a magic switch ready to just turn it all off overnight. (Seriously did anything in any public statement leave you thinking that maybe this was an optional feature and they had a backup plan?). So this is not simply throwing a switch to turn off DRM. This is basically developing a new feature to eliminate and replace the prior one. Less than 6 months before the street date. With the consoles already starting production at the factories and the games starting to head towards gold versions. They might pull it off? But common sense and experience tells me that at best it will be a poorly tested and validated rough ride. And if I were you, I would elect to not be the first clown lined up for the rodeo.
I think they've totally gone over the top i think the biggest problem was that people didn't want the damn thing to brick if the internet is out for a few days. Fine check in periodically just don't turn my games console into a really expensive bluray player if it can't connect for more than a day
There acting like a spoilt child if they can't have their own way all the time they'll take their ball and go home.
There acting like a spoilt child if they can't have their own way all the time they'll take their ball and go home.
They undid ONE thing. That 24-hour check in won't matter when cloud processing forces always on.BaronVH said:
All the other issues still stand. All of them. This was only one and the fact that they actively attacked consumers and called us dumb consumers who don't pay attention to details IS a problem. They can't just wave that away by caving. They need to actually admit that they were being wrong. Even EA backed away from them in this. EA for goodness sake.
You should absolutely take into account how a company treats you. If a waiter is particularly rude ot me, I have no idea if they aren't also taking a piss in my drink behind closed doors. I do not buy clothes, food, games, consoles, or anything else from companies that treat customers that way and neither should anyone else. Their own PR department is treating us that way so we have no idea what other shenanigans they have up their sleeves.
I'd accept that- IF we were told exactly what and how. If it was explained to us.Lightknight said:
We know why the PS4 won't be backwards compatible (at least, the information is out there, I don't know how well-known it is), so I want to know why the XBone won't be. It won't make me any more likely to buy one, though- the 360 plays original Xbox games (admittedly, the ones I've played have occasional visual issues, but there's absolutely nothing game breaking or even experience ruining) so unless they offer something... I'm not touching it. I'll stick with a 360 for the foreseeable future to continue enjoying the games I still enjoy, and in the future get a PC that can at least handle recent games- I've been wanting a decent machine for doing digital art on, while a machine designed specifically for one won't exactly be perfect for the other, I'll get something that can do both to a standard acceptable to me. Because, frankly, MS isn't making me feel the XBone will be "a standard acceptable to me" even with this move- and even if they did, I'm too insulted to touch them with a very long poky thing until it's more than just "acceptable".
When they say "region free" are they referring to the console or the games? If it's the games, colour me intrigued.
Anyway, between this announcement and the fact Sony bricked several PS3's yesterday, I have to say Xbone has moved from 'never-ever' to 'possibly'. Remove the Kinect requirement, stop shafting indie games and maybe issue a REAL apology, and they will probably have won me over (I'm an Xbox gamer at heart). Till then I'm still very much on-the-fence.
Anyway, between this announcement and the fact Sony bricked several PS3's yesterday, I have to say Xbone has moved from 'never-ever' to 'possibly'. Remove the Kinect requirement, stop shafting indie games and maybe issue a REAL apology, and they will probably have won me over (I'm an Xbox gamer at heart). Till then I'm still very much on-the-fence.