Microsoft Exec on Always Online Consoles: "Deal With it"

likalaruku

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For me, the "drama" is that the game will be unplayable if the servers ever go down permanently. Just like the good MMOs & Facebook games you may have liked that went away & you can never play again. It's much worse than a lack of backwards compatibility, because there's no old system you can buy to run it on.
 

DarkhoIlow

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After this tweet, everyone at Sony is high five-ing each other because you know, they just won this console generation.

I really hope Microsoft is trolling, else if they do continue on this path and try to shove Kinect 2 onto it's consumers along with the always online DRM thing, then they can just stop now because everyone else will either buy a PS4 or go PC instead.
 

poiuppx

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Spent the day considering this, reading opinions around the net, and watching it spread virally like an outbreak of the T-Virus during holiday travel times. And I just have to say the following:

1. Orth will be fired. Why? Because he caused a PR disaster; because he probably violated if not an NDA, then at least an internal requirement to not run your mouth about the company online or over social media without express say-so; because he made the job of selling always-online that much harder; and because someone has to take a trip under the bus over this mess at the end of the day. When it's just stories here and on Kotaku and Joystiq, that's bad. When it's on CNET and Reddit, that's worse. When it's front paging Forbes and HuffPo, clean out your desk and just pray Microsoft is willing to let it go at that.

2. Those who are left behind are utterly boned. All accounts point damn strongly to always-online being required for the Durango. This fiasco not only makes it clear the user base is adamantly against that, but worse, it poisoned the well before any marketing can take place to make it attractive. It's gone damn far in a very short period of time, and worse still, E3- where Durango is likely to get the big reveal -is right around the corner. So, let's roleplay: you're a Microsoft Exec, and you woke up this morning to THIS. And as the day wore on, it got worse... and worse... and worse. So do you:
A) Go ahead with the reveal at E3 as planned, knowing there's going to be epic backlash and you may well alienate the potential Week 1 buyers by doing so?, or
B) Delay reveal & release to remove always-online... and in doing so piss off EVERY developer who was making you launch titles since they'd not only need to delay and miss out on sales, but would need to sink in extra money to make sure their games could work sans-always-online?
 

Darks63

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Deal with it what an ass it would be nice if he would eat his words but with the success of Diablo and Simcities always online Scheme people most likely will deal with it to get their hands on the next halo or all the DLC that Microsoft bogarts.
Winthrop said:
BurnOutBrighter said:
Front page on Reddit and all over the big news sites now. HUGE PR disaster for MS.

Oh, and there's also <url=http://www.quickmeme.com/Always-Online-Adam-Orth/?upcoming>the meme!
Oh god Sim City ad showed up on that page. Cannot stop laughing. Was having a rough day this helped haha.
that page was a thing of beauty thank you.
 

ImmortalDrifter

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This page really should be updated with Microsofts reaction

Here's a link for anyone interested: http://thenextweb.com/microsoft/2013/04/05/microsoft-apologizes-for-employees-xbox-durango-always-online-tweets-claims-customer-centric-approach/
 

Kael Arawn

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In till the day of the actual Xbox 720/Durango/Next (or whatever it actually ends up being called) and we can actual see how the always on requirement is implemented and what it offers/restricts users from doing there?s no way of knowing if the always on requirement will be a hindrance to its targeted audience or a boon.

I remember when the Wii was first announced and all the hardcore gamers started bitching about the fact that it was going to flop because they weren?t going to buy it as it was causal centric and last time I checked the wii had the most amount of physical console sales for that gen.

So while I agree that always online sucks balls the best thing we can do to voice our disdain is vote with our wallets and not buy the damn thing, even though I don?t think Microsoft will be that worried as there a massive company and they would already have a target audience in mind and maybe only selling to the MILLIONS of people who actually live in a location that offers always on as a viable thing and alienating all those who live in locations that cant has been there plan all along.

Heck xbox live is more focussed as a streaming service these days then a gaming one and if everyone who used to use their xbox 360 for access to Netflix etc alone buys one that still a pretty big customer base for the thing based of those number alone.
 

Atmos Duality

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BurnOutBrighter said:
Front page on Reddit and all over the big news sites now. HUGE PR disaster for MS.

Oh, and there's also <url=http://www.quickmeme.com/Always-Online-Adam-Orth/?upcoming>the meme!
It's not a disaster at all; most likely by the time the "Durango" is revealed, the public at large will have forgotten this.

EDIT:
And the followup pitch...

Microsoft said:
"We apologize for the inappropriate comments made by an employee on Twitter yesterday. This person is not a spokesperson for Microsoft, and his personal views do not reflect the customer centric approach we take to our products or how we would communicate directly with our loyal consumers. We are very sorry if this offended anyone, however we have not made any announcements about our product roadmap, and have no further comment on this matter."
Typical deflection speech.
Let me translate:
"We'd prefer if you forgot what the man said...
...*fake apology for an opinion they just disowned*...
...*placating comment to kiss consumers ass*...
"...we have no further comment."
 

Ryan Minns

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The one thing I have learned about the average consumer... the console could demand a blood sample taken straight from the heart via chainsaw and people will still call it the greatest thing ever because of the company. The guy should have said "Hey, be annoyed! We'll just tell other people how great and rewarding always online will be and they'll eat it up because we tell them what's good for them".

This gen showed without a doubt at least with consoles that a company can do ANYTHING with zero positives and people will scream and shout how awesome it is much louder than those who dislike it.
 

Pedro The Hutt

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An apology is nice, but the meme should definitely rage on until he's fired. Fill up your Twitter feeds and Facebook pages until he's sacked! I'm sure his wage has been high enough for him to afford at least a few months of unemployment.
 

Kael Arawn

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Ryan Minns said:
The one thing I have learned about the average consumer... the console could demand a blood sample taken straight from the heart via chainsaw and people will still call it the greatest thing ever because of the company. The guy should have said "Hey, be annoyed! We'll just tell other people how great and rewarding always online will be and they'll eat it up because we tell them what's good for them".

This gen showed without a doubt at least with consoles that a company can do ANYTHING with zero positives and people will scream and shout how awesome it is much louder than those who dislike it.
Spot on!

Desert Punk, Thankyou. Yours is awesome as well footrot flats is great, ill never forget the first time i saw the film and ive enjoyed many a hour of reading the comic. Anything to do with horse or "the grey ghost" (dogs super hero persona) is just pure win :)

And every one else :- WAHHHHHHHHH!!! A ELITIST PRICK DISAGREES WITH ME I MUST USE THE COLLECTIVE RAGE OF THE INTERNET TO GET HIM FIRED RIGHT NOW TO STOP MY BUTT HURT!

As i said earlier vote with your wallet when the consoles out besides that you are all simply crying over proverbial split milk.
 

Atmos Duality

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Desert Punk said:
I think you are seriously underestimating peoples memory. Especially considering they are likely going to be wanting to launch in about 7 months from now in time for the holiday season.
I wish I were, but I've given the general public far too much credit before.
Two years ago, I watched Sony suffer two massive PR black eyes...and then everyone went about their business like nothing happened.

I'll grant that Sony apologized for what was one of the largest network security breaches in history, but the removal of Other-OS should have been a wakeup call. It proved that the relationship between consumer and console provider had changed, in a rather scary way.
People raged about for maybe a couple of weeks, then completely dismissed it and went right back to supporting Sony. (whose market share was growing; they were catching up to the 360 in active units)

Compare that to something like Mass Effect 3; its controversy left a much stronger, lasting impression.
What was its crime? The ending sucked. That's it.
Shit, that's nothing new or scary.

Unless it hurts them immediately, the general public will not care for long.
 

Kael Arawn

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Atmos Duality, very good point the removal of other OS from the ps3 was a huge thing in my eyes and most people that i know who own a ps3 where "meh" about it but nearly everyone I know who played ME3 complained about the ending when it was brought up in conversation and games having shitty endings is a pretty universal thing.

Also i feel obliged to point-out that if you wanted to keep other os as an option all you needed to do was not apply the update which removed it. It?s a gruesome fact that if you want to apply updates made by a company AFTER you purchase the hardware or do anything online that requires connecting to a service like XBL or PSN then you agree to them screwing with your console.

Any PS3 sold without other os as a function was sold without it being a function so no once can ***** about it being a promised function as it wasn't promised to people who bought ps3s past the initial wave.

There is a solution though simply buy your hardware and keep it offline and mod the bugger out of it so it can do what you want it to.

I should also point out that I live in Australia and in the land of oz its legal to do whatever you like to a piece of hardware you own but by playing with the devices hardware/firmware voids your warranty and thus your service agreement with the manufacturer.

Case point my CECHA01 model ps3 is still running other os in the form of a install of DamnSmallLinix and I have never had to upgrade the firmware as I have multiman installed and can use it to get around the need for firmware updates to play games, I can?t use it on the PSN but since I'm a single player focused gamer it?s never phased me.

And if Microsoft are planning on the NEXT being focused as a media extender more than a console (which would require always on to offer most of its functionality), I seriously see nothing wrong with it being always on and if I want to play games offline there always pc & ps4.

Or are people really that attached to halo :p
 

stabnex

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Due to Microsofts current "promises" for the next Xbox, I convince an average 150 people a day to not buy the next console.

Deal with THAT, Microsoft.
 

Sheo_Dagana

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Sorry Orthy, but I work in the electronics department of my job, specifically with video games, and there are a surprising number of customers that don't have or use online services. You wanna alienate those customers? Go for it.

Personally, I have a shitty ISP, but it's also the ONLY ISP in my area, unless I wanna go the Dish route. If it goes down (which it often does) and I lose the ability to use my Xbox, once instance of that happening is all it would take for me to switch to Playstation... or hell, just stick with my PC.
 

Kael Arawn

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And I will try and convince people to be rational and to spend there money on the system that most matches the functionality they require from a entertainment device

And since "dedicated gamers" make up less then a quarter of current AAA game sales and the industry as a whole is aimed at "filthy casual's" who play games as a time waster and use there consoles as a media extender the rest of the time I will probably be recommending people buy a decent shuttle pc :p

EDIT

Or a Ouya :)
 

Kael Arawn

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Sheo, Im in the console/pc supply industry myself and a large part of my income comes form me going to peoples houses and setting up live profiles and the likes as they cant figure out how to do it themselves and I would say 2 out of every 3 xbox 360s I sell end up online due to "all the other crap" people do with them beside play games, and i think that's the market Microsoft are aiming for and everyone else is just dead consumer weight in there eyes.

I have had ALOT of luck building and selling my own "steam boxes" as well in the form of shuttle xpcs (preloaded to bugger with freeware and delivered/setup most of the time in packs with microsoft wireless receivers and Xbox wireless game pads)and I personally think anyone who buys a console at launch when you can build a perfectly respectable shuttle pc for about $600 and have access to the entire steam backlog of games as well as a open ended architecture is mad!

But that's the common sense option and it really isn't that common.

Also as i mentioned i make a living selling consoles & peripherals, building/fixing pc's and i also work as a reseller for a few different ISPs so i might be slightly biased when it comes to having a opinion on the subject of always on being a requirement.
 

Sheo_Dagana

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Kael Arawn said:
Sheo, Im in the console/pc supply industry myself and a large part of my income comes form me going to peoples houses and setting up live profiles and the likes as they cant figure out how to do it themselves and I would say 2 out of every 3 xbox 360s I sell end up online due to "all the other crap" people do with them beside play games, and i think that's the market Microsoft are aiming for and everyone else is just dead consumer weight in there eyes.

I have had ALOT of luck building and selling my own "steam boxes" as well in the form of shuttle xpcs (preloaded to bugger with freeware and delivered/setup most of the time in packs with microsoft wireless receivers and Xbox wireless game pads)and I personally think anyone who buys a console at launch when you can build a perfectly respectable shuttle pc for about $600 and have access to the entire steam backlog of games as well as a open ended architecture is mad!

But that's the common sense option and it really isn't that common.

Also as i mentioned i make a living selling consoles & peripherals, building/fixing pc's and i also work as a reseller for a few different ISPs so i might be slightly biased when it comes to having a opinion on the subject of always on being a requirement.
The interesting thing is that you're still confirming that 1 in every 3 customers does not take their system online. That was the kind of number I was talking about. That's a third of their customers. I mean, would Microsoft really be willing to take the hit on a third of their customers just to force their 'always online' console on the remaining two-thirds? Yes, many people use features on Xbox Live for things other than gaming, but Smart TVs are becoming pretty common, and those TVs give you access to all that 'other crap.' So why pay for a service like Xbox Live just to access those other services which are already being offered by your TV?

I like consoles, personally, and there are a lot of console games I really enjoy. I have an up to date PC which I use for certain games (Skyrim, MMORPGs), but I'll still want one of the new systems. I just fail to see what advantage always-online would offer me. Sometimes my ISP goes down while I'm playing a game and I get disconnected from XBL, but it's not a big deal if I'm playing a single player game. I'm sure the ISPs you work with in your area are respectable, but mine happen to be shit, so perhaps I'm biased too.
 

Kael Arawn

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Excellent some real debate about the underlying issue of the concept not just ?RAGH ALWAYS ONLINE SUCKS, IM NOT BUYING IT?.

Firstly ill address the concept that the actual threads about, the Microsoft exec who made the comments is a elitist douche, but he?s an executive so being a douche comes with the turf and it?s his personal opinion so he?s entitled to it.

And if we were all commenting and raging about his options and only his opinion?s we would all be simply saying ?he?s a douche? but where not so this tread is mainly about the concept of the NEXT being a always online console so lets address it as such.

Right of the bat people have to stop thinking as Microsoft as a game company, I also think referring to the xbox as part of Microsoft?s gaming division or saying Microsoft even has a gaming divisions as a whole is oxymoronic as Microsoft has a MEDIA ENTERTAINMENT division and that?s a completely different thing.

Ever since the first Xbox was released it has been Microsoft?s intent to provide a content distribution system that is accepted as a standard device in a living room simply because pcs never really have been and the end goal of this strategy has always been to become a MAJOR PLAYER in the digital distribution market with each console offering more and more functions besides gaming.

The issue is that Apple bet them to the punch with iTunes and the explosion of the popularity of the idevice, ever since then they have been scrambling to regain a market share that they felt they lost before they even had there foot properly in the door.

So let?s apply this paradigm to the NEXT box, let?s say the NEXT box comes out and 90% of its sub functions are locked behind an online gate and said functions that they have locked away are aimed at digital distribution of movies, music, streaming tv, etc. Then add into the equation the fact that a very large portion of common society still doesn?t have a damn clue what they?re doing when it comes to digital distribution, it would be highly advantageous for Microsoft to start marketing there next console as always online as it would alleviate all the BS that comes from a customer not understanding why half the functions there device offers are not functional as if they have to ?connected to the net to have it work from the start? so most of the extra crap would function out of the box.

I totally agree that the fact that being online would be a deterrent to at least a third of their potential customer base but if those customer are only using the machine to play games which Microsoft get a much smaller cut from them profit wise vs say a digital music sale on a unit by unit basis why would they expend resources/effort trying to keep them.

So focusing on those people who do buy it and use it online as a digital distribution machine would more than make up for the lost customer basis and thus the concept of dead commercial weight is applicable i.e. where keeping existing customer happy far outweighs the benefits of focusing on bringing in new customers after a different more cost effective service.

I also agree that most modern smart tvs have all the functions that a xbox offers built in but as I have stated previously most common users don?t even understand this stuff let alone set it up or use it and Microsoft have MASSIVE brand recognition with the Xbox as a media extending online thingy already and people are used to comfort and convenience so if they are used to the Xbox name as well as the functionality already for that type of stuff they will stick with it, which brings me to my next point.

Do you have any clue how excited most media company would be by the concept of a locked down media distribution system for home use with even a portion of the xboxs current market share? I guarantee you there?s a lot of music executives getting rather excited by the prospect right now as it offers drm control ON ALL stuff sold via the network, and Microsoft would be looking to please the people who own IP rights on this type of stuff now more than ever as making fat stacks of cash for selling other peoples product on your own digital distribution networks is a very lucrative industry practice just ask valve.

Look at what Microsoft did with window?s 8 a large portion of its new functionality is expressly designed to make it easier for the customers to buy crap from them and with brand named services like skype that they are building into the console as a base function I can see how there marketing push for the thing will have VERY little to do with gaming (it will be a after thought).

This is also self-evident if you look at their actual game output as a company, they used to fund more game development BEFORE the advent of the xbox and there actual game division has only got smaller over time (Ensemble I shall for ever morn ye!).

I also wouldn?t be surprised if they severely decrease the cost of live with the NEXT or even make it free outside of paying for your actual subscriptions to services (netflix) or for multiplayer gaming, and I would be very surprised if they don?t have some type of limited offline mode for games as all games will be force installed to a hard drive anyway according to other news on the console and I expect them to start trying to push the zune/window?s phone/window?s 8 shared infrastructure a lot more through marketing/sales and those work on an account locked offline model so why wouldn?t the NEXT.

I think we simply have to accept that all the mega bucks in the gaming/personal entertainment field are in selling and marketing to the majority and we (dedicated gamers) are NO LONGER THE MAJORITY OF A CONSOLES SALES MARKET!

But then I liked deus ex invisible war so all my options should be seen as those of a ranting mad man :)