Microsoft: "We've Lost Our Way" on PC Gaming

JET1971

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Apr 7, 2011
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The Only thing MS did wrong for PC gamers was Xbox exclusive titles and GFWL. I read "Best of all, PC gamers can look forward to a future where they can interact with their console brethren seamlessly." as "Best of all, PC gamers can look forward to a Failure where they can interact with their console brethren seamlessly." and thought GFWL rebranded.
 

CryoSynth

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Jun 2, 2011
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"That means that games can and should work across multiple devices, with the same friends list and the same high scores, and people should be able to play each other no matter what device they're on."
I sure am glad someone is finally thinking of the high scores.

But seriously, even in the few games that lend themselves to scores and leaderboards these days, scores are already always stored online anyway, or there'd be no point to them even. Nobody is competing offline for high scores these days.

The far bigger issue is save game data in general. The important thing would be to have the save data be compatible between devices, through cloud service AND manual backup in the event of needing to play offline.


Not that this is really the biggest part of the news here, but talk of high scores just stuck out as one of those outmoded ways of understanding gaming - as if its 20 years ago and the point of any game is to score points by running over prostitutes or something.
 

MazokuRanma

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Oct 29, 2009
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I'm going to be cautiously optimistic here. MS has done a pretty good job reorienting with the change in management, and I genuinely like Phil Spencer. I'm certain there's a level on which he's required to do what he can for the stock price and the shareholders, but I also think he genuinely enjoys gaming and being a part of the games industry. MS has failed at this in the past, but these aren't the same people in charge, so I'll at least entertain the hope that they may succeed this time.
 

Monk5127

All Hail Space Duck
Sep 6, 2014
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This old chestnut again. Pretty sure the same thing was said with Vista, 7 and 8.
Me? I think M$ only caters (and i use that term loosely) to PC gamers as we haven't really got much other choice. I'm sure M$ would be much happier if we just left them alone to continue making money from corporates and selling cheap licenses to schools.

It's a good system really,
Sell m$ products to schools at a discounted rate -> all children are proficient with m$ products -> workplace buys m$ stuff because that's all anyone knows how to use.
 

omega 616

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May 1, 2009
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After reading the same post 20 odd times by different users,"same song and dance".

Phil MIGHT actually do something, he seems to be on a path to fuck shit up in a good way.

As much as I like to give pc gamers a tough time 'cos I think a lot deserve it, the way you all get treated is awful.

Playing a bad pc port that came out months even years later is a piss off, I've been there.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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Uh, no. You still have no way with PC gamers. and you wont as long as you try to push that shitty Xbox services on us. no, we dont want to connect to your servers. And using Xbox executive to talk about PC gaming is the worst thing you can do about gaming.

"Xbox" no longer means consoles, said Spencer.
Oh, no. xbox encapsulates consoles very well.

Best of all, PC gamers can look forward to a future where they can interact with their console brethren seamlessly.
What you mean is that half the population in online games will be useless in comparison because cross-platform does not work and they are going with it anyway?

"The way forward, then, is in changing how Microsoft thinks about its customers: They're not people who play games on Windows PCs, or tablets, or consoles. They're customers of the Xbox Live service," said Spencer.
It seems that the way going forward for MS is to be detached from reality. I should have seen this coming.

"That means that games can and should work across multiple devices, with the same friends list and the same high scores, and people should be able to play each other no matter what device they're on."
you tried that, multiple times. its good that you tried. it obviously does not work though.

He also acknowledged that the existing Windows 8 App Store hasn't exactly been a smash hit - even for Microsoft-developed apps - and is looking to rework it completely for Windows 10.
unless by "rework" he means "remove" then its still going to be a massive minus of windows. Windows users do not want an appstore.





The Bucket said:
I played a GFWL title exactly one time. I started it, went through the pain in the ass sign up; then played for 2 hours until the game crashed and reloaded it to find my save had been somehow corrupted. Never again
you lucky bastard. i lost an entire week of progress in this way. at least you only lost 2 hours.



Bad Jim said:
I don't understand why Microsoft has been so bad with PC gaming. It's gone from strength to strength in recent years, and has entrenched their de facto OS monopoly quite nicely. So what have they done? Released another console to compete with the PC, paid for exclusive titles to not be on PC, and shut down GFWL, ruining a number of PC games. It's like they're trying to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Maybe they've woken up at least. Maybe.
Its simple. can microsoft get a cut for every copy of PC game sold? no. Can they do it with Xbox? yes.

ZiggyE said:
Linux is the future of PC gaming. The future can't come soon enough.
Linux was the future of gaming in the 90s. linux was the future of gaming last deecade. linux was a future of gaming today. and linux will be the future of gaming in 10 years. yet the future never seem to come. why?

Perhaps because linux is completely unworkable for average user and noone supports it?



MonsterCrit said:
Hey MS you want to win back PC gamers... stop chaining directX versions to WIndows versions. Hoinestly we figured out long ago the only reason you do this is to create a selling point for the new OS.
They wont stop because there are real technical reasons for this chaining.

Neverhoodian said:
I prefer "XBAX" myself
The correct name is "EggsBox" because of how easily they break all the time.
 

Sigmund Av Volsung

Hella noided
Dec 11, 2009
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1) That is an amazing photo.

2) No shit, MS. You know what would help? Releasing the Master Chief Collection on PC. I don't really care about cross-platform play since we already have a massive community: having a bunch of other people who aim and react slower due to the limitations of a controller won't really help undo the neglect.

Another thing that would help would be to treat the PC and Tablet versions of Windows 10 as separate entities. No one needs the app store on their desktop or laptop whilst more expedient web browsers exist.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
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Bullshit. They don't give a fuck about PC gaming. They just want to shove their Xbox Live down everyone's throat. They can't convince enough people to buy their shitty little console so they think they can get more money by taking PC gaming hostage with Dx12 and Windows 10. This is what Gabe Newell saw when he visited Microsoft a few years ago. That's why Valve began their work on SteamOS and why they partnered with Khronos Group to develop a new API. He saw Microsoft's desire to fuck everyone over and end PC gaming as we know it.

If Microsoft had any intent on furthering PC gaming, that's very fuckin' simple. They only need to release their games on PC. That's it. Don't mess with the system. But no. They're not gonna do that. Because they don't care. Microsoft has this shitty attitude where they think that they're always right and everyone else, customers included, are wrong. And if we can't see their super amazing vision then we're retarded and they need to control us. Which is exactly what they're trying to do with this.

So be afraid PC gamers. Be very fuckin' afraid of what Microsoft has in store for us. These are the people that payed Square-Enix for timed exclusive Tomb Raider rights. What's to stop them from doing that with other games like they did with GFWL?

Phil Spencer said:
The way forward, then, is in changing how Microsoft thinks about its customers: They're not people who play games on Windows PCs, or tablets, or consoles. They're customers of the Xbox Live service
Exactly what I'm talking about. Their fuckin' attitude. Stop trying to control your goddamn customers! We're not customers of Xbox Live just because you want us to be!

They didn't change the way they think about their customers at all! Their plan has always been to make everybody use Xbox Live. GFWL was their first attempt for fuck sake. This proves that they have not learned a single fuckin' thing since then. They're still playing the same tune. Still trying to force their shitty service on people and to tell us how we're supposed to think.

The only difference between this and GFWL is that now they want to do it on a massive scale. They want to envelop and control everything. Do not fall for this. In fact, do not upgrade to Windows 10. If PC gamers don't upgrade to Windows 10, developers would have no choice but to use that new Vulkan API instead of Dx12.
 

CrystalShadow

don't upset the insane catgirl
Apr 11, 2009
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flying_whimsy said:
Easiest way to get back on track with pc gaming:

1. Don't fuck with our ability to play games on computers (no subscriptions, no walling things off to the store, no GFWL etc).
2. Makes games (and put effort into ports)
3. Release on Steam
4. Profit
5. Repeat

It's not like they need to reinvent the wheel here; there's already a wildly successful system in place on that platform that supports everything they wanted the xbone to be as far as publisher control is concerned. They can even add in support for that overpriced 3d webcam they call the kinect, if they want, but it just can't be mandatory. If they really wanted to embrace the platform, they'd start letting you use microsoft points with the games they release on steam and allow purchases for the xbone to carryover to your steam or other installation.

It wouldn't hurt if they made some dev tools available to aspiring developers to help them make pc games rather than just going "here's C++, have fun." And while I'm talking pie in the sky stuff, I sure would love to see them add an xbox 360 emulator to windows; considering it already exists as part of the dev kit you'd think it wouldn't be that hard provided you can meet minimum system requirements (what's the point of directx if you have to specialize every installation anyways?).
Meh. The dev tools you get for making windows games are pretty similar to what you'd get if you were making Xbox games. They are practically the same thing in a lot of areas. (DirectX from the PC was simply extended to cover how the Xbox was built to function)
The documentation for DirectX even includes developer hints and guidelines that are only meaningful for the 360 (well, my SDK install is a bit old, so that's probably been updated)

It's not like you get a game engine out of a platform holder. There's plenty of tools on PC as is if you want something that's easier to work with.
Microsoft provides quite a lot for game devs all things considered...
 

O maestre

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Nov 19, 2008
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I am going to add my concern that this might be a way to sneak subscription fees into PC gaming. But I can't believe M$ would be that stupid, I am going to be an optimist and think that this is merely marketing being clumsy again.
 

FalloutJack

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Nov 20, 2008
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O maestre said:
I am going to add my concern that this might be a way to sneak subscription fees into PC gaming. But I can't believe M$ would be that stupid, I am going to be an optimist and think that this is merely marketing being clumsy again.
I never doubt stupidity. How many times have they put their foot in it in relation to gaming, tablets, and OSs lately? Quite alot. I see no reason why they would stop now. When does a big company that's full of itself EVER learn from even the greatest monetary loss it's ever encountered?
 

DSK-

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May 13, 2010
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Steven Bogos said:
"Xbox" no longer means consoles, said Spencer. It means "gaming with Microsoft." He said that Windows 10 will consist of a big push into the PC gaming sector, and is commited to building PC exclusive titles utilizing the newly announced HoloLens

Best of all, PC gamers can look forward to a future where they can interact with their console brethren seamlessly.

"The way forward, then, is in changing how Microsoft thinks about its customers: They're not people who play games on Windows PCs, or tablets, or consoles. They're customers of the Xbox Live service," said Spencer. "That means that games can and should work across multiple devices, with the same friends list and the same high scores, and people should be able to play each other no matter what device they're on."
I'm not buying an Xbox Live subscription, and PC gamers would destroy console players.
 

inmunitas

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hentropy said:
ZiggyE said:
Linux is the future of PC gaming. The future can't come soon enough.
Oh, how I would love for that to be true. I gave up on the hope for such a glorious future about 7 years ago, when I too was sure it was coming...
You do relies that Android, ChromeOS and SteamOS are all Linux-based, right?
 

jklinders

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HaileStorm said:
This just sounds like they're trying to make pc users pay for xbox live.
I was thinking the very same thing. The last time they held out an olive branch to the PC gamers it was doused in piss and on fire. I'm not exactly holding my breath here.
 

Pseudonym

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Steven Bogos said:
"Xbox" no longer means consoles, said Spencer. It means "gaming with Microsoft." He said that Windows 10 will consist of a big push into the PC gaming sector, and is commited to building PC exclusive titles utilizing the newly announced HoloLens [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/139553-Microsoft-Windows-Holographic-Augmented-Reality-Holograms-HoloLens].

Best of all, PC gamers can look forward to a future where they can interact with their console brethren seamlessly.

"The way forward, then, is in changing how Microsoft thinks about its customers: They're not people who play games on Windows PCs, or tablets, or consoles. They're customers of the Xbox Live service," said Spencer. "That means that games can and should work across multiple devices, with the same friends list and the same high scores, and people should be able to play each other no matter what device they're on."
Apart from that middle bit, which might be good if they actually get it done, I am very skeptical. Microsoft can provide the OS, and they've made a decent controller so I can play bad consoleports easier, but besides that I already have steam or GOG for my gaming. I don't see what microsoft has to add to that. I remember games for windows live (pretty much xbox live on pc) with halo 2 and my trust in microsoft to not screw this up isn't exactly existent.
 

Uhuru N'Uru

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Microsoft: "We've Lost Our Way" on PC Gaming

That's not true at all, they abandoned PC Gaming the day the original XBox was started. There was no "losing their way", they knew exactly what they were doing when they walked away from PC Gaming.

This may be the true statement;
Microsoft: "We've Lost Our Way" on PC

Windows 8 tried to force mobile/tablet/xbox interface onto the PC.
They are different systems with different requirements, the result was their abysmal failure to sell W8, even worse than Vista.
So bad it ended up impacting on the sale of new PC's.

So bad they soon released Windows 8.1 to reverse some of the changes and changed Windows 9 to 10 in the misguided hope they could break the "Even Version Bad, Odd Version Good" cycle. Problem is it's not the numbers that cause this cycle, it's MS policies and they haven't changed.
They try to create some type of monopoly, in the first release, it's rejected and they must then release a fixed version of that release.

So if you consider W8.1 the fixed "good" version, then W10 will be the new crap release we all hate. What's worse for MS, the "Odd/Even" label will still work and become even stronger, due to MS skipping W9 and keeping it going.

Sidenote: It's a little known fact is, you can choose the OS of any new PC, you don't have to take the offered OS, it doesn't cost the retailer any money.

Strazdas said:
MonsterCrit said:
Hey MS you want to win back PC gamers... stop chaining directX versions to WIndows versions. Hoinestly we figured out long ago the only reason you do this is to create a selling point for the new OS.
They wont stop because there are real technical reasons for this chaining.
That's not true or more accurately, thers no technical reason that a stand alone Direct X doesn't exist and newer Direct X releases for older Windows have been made in the past. Any chaining MS does is a deliberate choice, intended to force upgrades. When it inevitably fails the old Windows gets a Upgrade to new Direct X.
 

alj

Master of Unlocking
Nov 20, 2009
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Microsoft . All we want from you in regards to PC gaming is to port direct X to linux.