Microsoft: "We've Lost Our Way" on PC Gaming

[Kahani]

This just sounds like they're trying to make pc users pay for xbox live.

Indeed. I really don't understand how MS have such a problem with PC gaming. Windows remains by far the best platform for PC gaming, and is arguably the best overall. Mac and Linux are better than they used to be, but remain very niche markets as far as gaming is concerned. MS don't need to do anything. We don't need crap like Games for Windows, Xbox bollocks, or anything extra at all. No-one has ever said "I didn't used to be able to play games on Windows, but now with GFWL I can". We already could play games, GWFL was just an extra thing to get in the way of actually doing so.

So having seen how well games work normally on Windows and what an utter failure trying to jam some useless middleman into the system was, what to MS do? Exactly the same as last time, but this time they're going to pretend we're all using Xboxes for some bizarre reason. Here's a crazy thought - if I want an Xbox, I'll fucking well buy one. If I wanted to have to pay in order to do what PCs have been doing for free since their invention, I'll, well, I just wouldn't, because that would be fucking stupid.

Best of all, PC gamers can look forward to a future where they can interact with their console brethren seamlessly.

oh happy happy joy joy given the reputation of the xboxs online eco system....

To be fair, that will never actually happen. Console controllers simply can't compete with mouse and keyboard in shooters, strategy games, and some other genres, and while controllers are better in others (racing and fighting games, for instance), PCs can use them as well. It's been entirely possible to mix up players on different platforms for a long time, but every time someone thinks of doing it they soon realise what a terrible idea it would be and back out.

 

[Strazdas]

Hey MS you want to win back PC gamers... stop chaining directX versions to WIndows versions. Hoinestly we figured out long ago the only reason you do this is to create a selling point for the new OS.

They wont stop because there are real technical reasons for this chaining.

That's not true or more accurately, thers no technical reason that a stand alone Direct X doesn't exist and newer Direct X releases for older Windows have been made in the past. Any chaining MS does is a deliberate choice, intended to force upgrades. When it inevitably fails the old Windows gets a Upgrade to new Direct X.

Its been true since DirectX 10.

Vista introduced entirely new driver architecture. This made the architecture incompatible with older versions of windows. DirectX 10 was designed for this new architecture and was not compatible with XP (and older windows but main complaint was XP). There were some hacks that tricked windows into thinking it has DirectX 10 and thus were able to launch programs looking for one, but it was merely parlour trick because as soon as any DirectX 10 exclusive features were used it would just crash. DirectX 10 and above never worked in pre-vista windows. it would mean complete rewrite of DirectX.

DirectX 11 worked on Vista and on 7 as no major changes were made in 7. DirectX 11.1 (and above) were designed with Windows 8. Windows 8 had a completely new kernel compared to 7, making it incompatible with 7 and bellow systems. Due to Directx 11.1 needing features of this new kernel, it could not work in 7 and bellow.

DirectX 12 will also have utilization of features that will only be available in Windows 12 due to reworking on how drivers are treated in terns of DirectX being able to access direct GLU streaming and many other fancy technical things (a significant improvement in performance if utilized by developers, and it likely will be because developers asked for something like this for a long time. Alternative - Mantle already offers some of these features).

Microsoft does a lot of things to force upgrades, up to banning sales of previous versions, but DirectX forcing is not one of them.

Old Windows have never since the times of DirectX 9 had an upgrade to previuos windows version. They wont start now.

The reason DirectX cannot be stand alone is because it is too heavily tied into how windows work, and making it stand alone would mean pretty much starting from scratch. Others have tried that (Mantle, other less known ones), but MS is not going to.

MS does a lot of shitty things and DirectX has many flaws, but DirectX forcing upgrades were never a thing and even if it were it would be awful one consdering how many games still use DirectX 9, let alone 10, 11 or 11.1

 

[Jandau]

If I wanted to be a LIVE customer, I'd buy an XBOne. Spewing such idiocy after claiming they've "lost their way" sounds like realizing you've dug yourself into a deep deep hole, then deciding you might as well keep digging and come out on the other side eventually...

 

[shrekfan246]

and shut down GFWL, ruining a number of PC games.

I think a great many people would argue that their creation of GFWL ruined a number of PC games in the first place.

I wouldn't be inclined to disagree with them.

Plus, many of the games that relied on it have been patched to work just fine without it now.

Weren't Microsoft talking about "The Cloud" around this time last year?

What happened to that?

Maybe a big rain or snowstorm made it dissipate.

OT: I'm going to echo some of the other sentiments expressed in this thread: we've already seen this song-and-dance from Microsoft multiple times in the past, and the previous time was relatively recent.

Also that literally all I want Microsoft to do is port and rerelease the Halo franchise to the PC without any stupid arbitrary restrictions like locking it to a specific OS.

 

[Lightspeaker]

So bad they soon released Windows 8.1 to reverse some of the changes and changed Windows 9 to 10 in the misguided hope they could break the "Even Version Bad, Odd Version Good" cycle. Problem is it's not the numbers that cause this cycle, it's MS policies and they haven't changed.
They try to create some type of monopoly, in the first release, it's rejected and they must then release a fixed version of that release.

So if you consider W8.1 the fixed "good" version, then W10 will be the new crap release we all hate. What's worse for MS, the "Odd/Even" label will still work and become even stronger, due to MS skipping W9 and keeping it going.

That's rather unfair considering that's apparently not the reason they made that change.

As I understand it the sole reason for the change is that a lot of older software is coded to treat "Windows 9x" to want to be "Windows 95/98". Which means a Windows 9 release would break things out of sheer confusion of what version of windows its trying to run on (i.e. its expecting 95 but is running into an OS developed in the 2010s).

I know it makes for a cute story to say its to break the cycle but I don't think Microsoft is quite that superstitious (even if its a remarkably accurate description of their release cycle).


On topic: I actually cancelled my XBox Live subscription just the other week because I don't use my 360 online enough to be worth it. If this is just a precursor to trying to force all PC users to get Live subscriptions I am going to be slightly wound up.

 

[ailurus]

You know what, Microsoft? I'm good. I don't need your "help" with PC games. Every time you try you just end up fucking things up even more. All I ask is for future versions of Windows to be efficient, stable, straightforward and doesn't conflict with older software or try to force bullshit nobody wants down our throat.

Pretty much this. Really, the best thing MS can do for PC gaming I think is just get out of the way. Are there really tons of PC gamers clamoring to be "customers of the Xbox Live service"? Is the (in)ability to share your achievements and high scores cross-platform really a major concern? Why do you think pushing your own app store will make gamers like you more?

What matters is the games. As people have said earlier in the thread, make your xbox exclusives available on PC (even at a delayed date). Provide PC devs the tools they need to optimize games, and make it easier to develop them. And heck, you had a chance years ago to jump all over what Valve's doing with the steam machines - if you'd expanded on your windows experience index tool, that alone could have boosted PC gaming a ton by making the system requirements complaint that lots of people have a moot point - "If your processor is above X and your GPU is above Y, congrats, you can run this game." But that's another ship you let sail.

 

[R0guy]

Anyone remember this gem?


Microsoft coming back to the PC gaming scene would be the very worst kind of HELL.

 

[Extragorey]

Pffft. Pay for a subscription service to game? What do I buy games for then?
This just sounds like, "We've been neglecting PC gamers. We need to shove Xbox Live down their throats too."

 

[O maestre]

I am going to add my concern that this might be a way to sneak subscription fees into PC gaming. But I can't believe M$ would be that stupid, I am going to be an optimist and think that this is merely marketing being clumsy again.

I never doubt stupidity. How many times have they put their foot in it in relation to gaming, tablets, and OSs lately? Quite alot. I see no reason why they would stop now. When does a big company that's full of itself EVER learn from even the greatest monetary loss it's ever encountered?

I'd guess it's because the losses while huge, are still peanuts to M$. The office pack and royalties still let the SS. Gates float.


I wouldn't say everything everything about the company is stupid, mostly their PR. The Kinect is a good example of a brilliant piece of hardware that should never have been part of a gaming console, but rather licensed to universities instead. The Surface Pro itself is also an engineering miracle, so I really admire them as creators, but when it comes to selling and publicity they really suck.

 

[freaper]

PC Exclusive titles?

Spoiler: Take it away, Mr. Jensen

 

[Geekeric]

I don't care what Microsoft says or what you do in response; whatever you do, DON'T GIVE THEM YOUR CREDIT CARD NUMBER. That's all you need to remember and everything will be fine.

 

[Ugicywapih]

Microsoft: "We've Lost Our Way" on PC Gaming

"Xbox" no longer means consoles, said Spencer. It means "gaming with Microsoft." He said that Windows 10 will consist of a big push into the PC gaming sector,

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So, does this mean Windows 10 will actively attempt to put arbitrary limits on my ability to enjoy third party titles online unless I pay them a glorified tithe?

If that's how MS tries to "find their way", I'd rather they stay lost.

 

[MHR]

Xbox live could offer to send a 10/10 babe to my place every morning to turn on my PC and wake me up with a handy, but there's no way I'm going to pay for a connection service ON A PC.

Fuck off, Microsoft. They can't come back with this shit after they've actively worked AGAINST the people running their OWN operating system for decades.

No PC gamer with self-respect should fall for this shit. Even if it would be highly amusing to be able to pwn console peasants on a daily basis because they're banging rocks together trying to aim with a controller in a shooter, while we'd destroy them just by using a mouse.

 

[Th37thTrump3t]

I'm all for Microsoft getting back into the PC gaming scene since it means Steam will have more competition (and competition means nothing but good things for consumers), but if they start trying to charge sub fees to play games online, I'm out.

Microsoft, after years of trying to fuck us over, lately you've seemed like you've finally been getting your shit together. Please do not prove me wrong and fuck this up... Remember that PC is meant to be an open platform.

 

[Th37thTrump3t]

I'm all for Microsoft getting back into the PC gaming scene since it means Steam will have more competition (and competition means nothing but good things for consumers), but if they start trying to charge sub fees to play games online, I'm out.

Microsoft, after years of trying to fuck us over, lately you've seemed like you've finally been getting your shit together. Please do not prove me wrong and fuck this up... Remember that PC is meant to be an open platform.

 

[weirdee]

Basically, after showing their faith in PC gaming by making three generations of consoles and yoking everything to the subpar hardware of those consoles and DirectX, Microsoft is ready to come back and care about our money- I mean, PC gaming again. By referring to us as the "Xbox Live network", a system which sounds like they want us totally reliant on their superficially overlaid console infrastructure to play games.

Yep, totally convincing. Convincing enough for the author of this article, anyway.

Do we really need them anymore?

 

[loa]

All I hear is "we'd really love it if pc users also paid for our xbox live subscription ''''''service'''''' and will probably force you to do so by hardcoding it into windows 10".

Let's see if there are enough gullible morons enabling it to take root on the pc platform too.
If so I'll just not play multiplayer again ever.
Or just won't touch anything microsoft which is easy enough to do, thankfully.

 

[Nowhere Man]

I keep re-reading to see where he says "So, here's Killer Instinct. We're so very sorry".

I'm not seeing it, so I'm finding it a bit hard to care.

My feelings exactly. Sadly KI will probably never be ported and I have no interest at all in ever buying an XBox One for it so that's that.

 

[MonsterCrit]

Hey MS you want to win back PC gamers... stop chaining directX versions to WIndows versions. Hoinestly we figured out long ago the only reason you do this is to create a selling point for the new OS.

They wont stop because there are real technical reasons for this chaining.

If there is a real technical reason tha's more of a design flaw in DirectX that they need to fix. I mean OGL doesn't seem to share that problem. It updates pretty nicely and is cross platform to boot. Explain to a game dev why they should use DirectX as their base when honestly it just means they have to double the coding to code a DirectX Whatever version and a OGL version. As opposed to you know.. just coding an OGL version. They've created a situation where by the time enough people upgrade to the latest version of windows to get the latest directX version Microshaft is already pushing their next version of windows with the next great DirectX version.

 

[hentropy]

Linux is the future of PC gaming. The future can't come soon enough.

Oh, how I would love for that to be true. I gave up on the hope for such a glorious future about 7 years ago, when I too was sure it was coming...

You do relies that Android, ChromeOS and SteamOS are all Linux-based, right?

That's one way to look at it, OSX is based on UNIX after all! The point is that I want to have a multi-purpose desktop OS that can also play games. Android games are what they are, ChromeOS isn't a proper desktop OS and SteamOS has some potential, but only if it is properly developed for. The bottom line is I want to be able to play major games, with mods if applicable, without running into major performance problems. And while I've been hoping I can ditch Windows to play on Linux for years, it simply hasn't come about.