Microsoft Xbox needs to die.

[noble cookie]

I have used my Xbox 360 almost every day for the past 5 years and after 2 years it red-ringed, since then i've made sure to look after it and the only problem it's had since was when the power brick broke recently and I got one off of a friend.

Do you try and break it? Sure their infamous for breaking but i'd buy a PS3 or something if they kept doing it.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

For someone who calls into question the validity of someone's claims for lack of 'citations', you seem to make a lot of your own.

Indeed I do, save for the fact that I don't claim numerical data without citation.

However, I really must refute one of your "claims". Getting a PC that's at least twice as powerful as the 360 will actually cost you less than a 360.

Interesting. If you've got a place where you can buy a computer with "at least twice" the performance of a 360 for under $250, maximum [http://www.gamestop.com/xbox-360/consoles/microsoft-xbox-360-elite-250gb-matte/97765], I'd love to see it.

For that matter, building one that can play any game currently available will NOT cost you two grand. Good God man, what? Are you buying some top-of-the-line gaming laptop from Alienware? If so, then you deserve to have the thing die out in a year or two.

Here's the thing: the only kind of computer I've used regularly for about five years now is a laptop. Having a desktop would be wasteful and inefficient, because half the time when I use my computer I'm not even at home.

That being said, I'm not being sarcastic when I say that if you know where to get a cheap laptop that can run Skyrim better than my 360, I'd love to hear where it is.

As I said in my previous post, I still have my gaming PCs from 2004 and from 1998. They didn't cost me an arm-and-a-leg to build, and they still work fine. I still use the one from '04, in fact.

*facepalm*

Okay. So you've been using a computer built with technology from eight years ago and never once, say, swapped out parts to upgrade it? Because that kind of renders the 'built in 2004' thing moot.

Likewise, I've had FAR fewer issues with my PCs than I have with my 360. I constantly have to connect to Xbox Live to get my arcade games and DLC to work. I can't even recall how many times I've had to connect to Live just so I could access the DLC for Halo Wars or other games.

Never had that trouble myself. Maybe I just got lucky.

PC's don't 'magically' become outdated every few years. Unless your some techophile who just HAS to have the latest tech. Which, if you are, then you really wouldn't be playing on a console, would you?

Or if you've got the know-how to Frankensteins your computer as needed.

As for "getting a virus", well, that's all user negligence. If you get one it's your own fault. Not the computers.

Clearly you've never lived in a place with more than one person and a desktop. Laptops at least have the automatic notion of being personal property, but for some reason, desktops are always perceived as communal.

If anything, consoles are holding game design back. And I don't just me graphically. (which I'm not too arsed about anyway) Faster, more powerful CPUs and greater RAM/memory capacities would allow for larger, faster, smarter games and NPCs. Just for starters.

That's true, but there are limitations beyond the hardware. Look at RAGE. Gorgeous, even on consoles. But how much of it was there, even put on two disks? Upgrade the hardware as much as you want, but if the delivery system is running out of space, you're just staving off the problem.

 

[RipRoaringWaterfowl]

The 360's problems with updates through Live and XBLA, and the challenge of getting replacement power packs are the only issues I see with the console. There are plenty of stories of breakdowns, and breakdowns are VERY problematic, but I've never had those problems. My problem was that my power pack burnt out ( it had overheated as a result of my stupidity in placing it, not enough ventilation), and I had to go on a wild goose chase to find a replacement. Also note that the broken power pack had it's light glowing red (perhaps RROD Xbox's have overheated?).

It's alright to get angry at a console that seems ( and maybe even is) shoddily made, but then again, I recommend making sure the console and power pack have plenty of space for ventilation. That may solve most problems with the console breaking down.

I'm on my 4th Xbox, I've had a release Pro and a 2nd Gen Arcade die on me (only paid $50 for the arcade and it served me well for over a year), I also had a MW2 console which I've subsequently sold and I'm now on a Gears of War 3 console. I've got 5 controllers (4 first party ones), only 1 of which doesn't work perfectly, but I attribute that to my idiot brother who used to use it before I moved out and took it with me. You're complaining about the price hike? It's like $100 for a year in Australia (unless you get in during one of their 'deals') and we don't even get half the features. No Netflix, no Indie Games and we have a total of 2 TV Channels from that new update. Seriously, how do we pay more than Americans for it? OUR DOLLAR IS WORTH MORE!

That all being said, they provide a damn good service and I love my Xbox. My Wii and 3DS sit tucked away collecting dust, but every day without fail I turn my xbox on for 10-15 hours...

'Tis true that your dollar is worth more, but as far to my knowledge, that's a fairly recent development. For the longest time, the Canadian and Australian Dollars were worth less than the US Dollar; recent economic conditions in America seem to have brought the dollar down compared to all currencies, leading the Canadian and Aussie dollars to be more valuable in comparison, if only by a miniscule margin.

Another thing I've noticed is that for most every console in all of gaming history released internationally, it always cost the same across all countries ( 600 US Dollars, 600 Euros, 600 British Pounds Sterling, 600 Canadian Dollars, etc., as an example), which means consumers in countries with stronger currencies always paid more... but I don't know why you guys are paying so much for everything; maybe it has something to do with having had a weaker currency the whole time, and then all the companies don't seem willing to change the prices to meet changes in currency... but it seems like an enigma. An unfair one.

captcha: Masonry, oppoper ... maybe the Freemasons are responsible! [joke]

 

[Chicago Ted]

What I hate about these threads is there is always one person who types this line. "This has not been a problem for me and my Xbox works just fine." Just fine and dandy random person on the internet who thinks that everybody else must treat their stuff like crap. Like how mine broke as well and is sitting in my closet never to be played again.

Uh... Pot? You're kinda calling the Kettle black here.

This goes the other way as well, just because you had a problem with it and didn't get it fixed, doesn't mean that everyone else has. I can only recall one person I know in the passed few years who has had an Xbox 360 RRoD on them, out of at least 3 dozen.

I'll admit, at first, I had troubles with Xbox's. Within the first 3 years of launch, I had gone through 3 consoles. Each had died on me with an RRoD, and one of them also had an issue with the disc tray. I was furious at the time, but each one that broke, I was able to get repaired for free from Microsoft, and had my warranty extended even. Now, I've gone on 3 years with my current Xbox, almost 4, with near constant use on it, and it is showing no signs of any problems. The only console I've had longer than that was my second PS2 I believe because my first one I had of those broke, and I didn't have a warranty to cover it or number to dial to have it shipped and fixed for free.

Then again, I wish I could say the same thing about their damned headsets.

 

[MarsProbe]

Don't like Microsoft/X-Box anymore? Well, just don't spend any more money on it then!

I'm sure MS will cry tears of molten gold over losing out on your cash. Or not.

 

[Your Fearless Captain]

I might be in the minority but the PC gamers can keep their mods. There is a reason game developers generate content for their own games; it's because they're good at it. I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.

BTW I'm sorry to hear about the issues you've had with your 360's. I've got three in the house (2 Pros and a 360S) and none of them have had any problems.

I beg to differ on the PC mods suck part. Counter Strike was a mod for Half Life and so was Team Fortress. Dear Ester started as a mod for Half Life 2. Mods for Bethesda games make the game so much better it's staggering.

Also these mods are probably going to better then the games there modding.

http://andoran.com/en/

http://blackmesasource.com/

snip

You are my new favorite user.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

Sure: http://www.videogamer.com/news/schafer_xbox_360_patches_cost_40k.html

Nothing against Tim Schafer, but are there any other sources? He casually mentions it, and then...nothing else.

Those services are free in PS3, Wii, and PC... Xbox is the only one charging

Oh, yes, PS3. A living monument to the quality you get from a completely free service. The PC is already designed to connect to the internet, so that's a non-example, and the Wii...

Sorry, I couldn't stop laughing at the idea of playing online Wii games.

Actually that's complete crap. I've used some huge overhaul mods on many games, in particular though STALKER: CoP and Skyrim, and the vast majority of mods do not and can not break because of the update. The exceptions are things like Skyrim Script Extender and SkyBoost which vastly improve game performance and the script library (Papyrus)

So they sometimes don't break with updates? And when they do, they're for stuff that are invaluable to game performance?

Great. How comforting.

...Ok. I disagree with the value assessments as well as the implication of huge instability, but we'll roll with it. Not like Xboxs ever break and need replacing. Oh... right.

I'd prefer a device that breaks over one that breaks and steals my personal data. At least I don't have any chance of fault in the former. Besides, when did a company ever extend a blanket warranty over a computer?

Implying that open source is the perfect world is vastly different than implying consoles shouldn't exist, but I'm not going to put words in his mouth

Sorry, I saw "In a perfect world everyone would buy games only for the pc" and understandably assumed that this would require the nonexistence of consoles. My mistake.

Sad, the way monopolies work. Want to play DirectX video games on PC? You need Windows. I personally await the day games are made on open source code like OpenGL and I can simply run Ubuntu or whatever free OS.

You act like games have an incentive to be produced like that. The most recent high-profile game release without any disc protection (a different issue, but a big one for PC gaming) ended up being one of the most pirated games in history. And then the producers of The Witcher 2 had the gall to cry that the internet was being mean to them by not buying their easily-downloaded game.

The internet (and the people who inhabit it) so consistently screw developers across the entertainment industry that it's sheer luck that a few of them still cater to us from time to time.

Anyway, my personal opinion is that consoles are good. They get more people into gaming, and as they mature games get better across the board (including PC ports). It's pretty simple to get away from consoles, really. You can get gaming on a PC for as little as $400-500 (plus a monitor, but same goes for a console). Sure, it will be outdated compared to the most modern tech in a year as new GPUs and CPUs get released, but compared to the software it will not be struggling any more than when it was new. Games just aren't really getting any more demanding on the minimum specs side of things.

But I commute really regularly. That plan would require me to buy a second computer that I can't use anytime except when I'm at home.

Sure, on PC you might need to troubleshoot an issue here and there (10 minutes on Google... less time than you spend reading this forum. Or Facebook) but otherwise, keep you PC in good condition and it'll last a long time. I think the slight inconveniences are vastly, vastly out striped by the benefits - but of course not everyone feels that way and I'm ok with it.

Now that is how you end an argument. Kudos, man. Not a lot of people can say something as reasonable as that while on the internet.

 

[orangeban]

Ug, I'm having major troubles with my Xbox right now, the disk drive won't read disks, the controllers work about 50% of the time and it's noisy(er than usual) as crap right now.

But I won't replace it, since I might as well just stick to the PC. I've got steam, I've can play multiplayer games for free, I can sample delicious indie goodness from a much broader range and I prefer the controls.

 

[ccggenius12]

Trollin', Trollin', Trollin'
Though the threads are swollen
Keep them fanboys trolling
Flamethreeeeeeeaaaad

Watch the posts a'stackin'
Wise we be a-crackin'
Talkin' 'bout the xbox 360.
My opinion is that these folks
Won't accept what we say as jokes
There's nothing we can do to change
Their minds.

OT: I've had my elite since Halo 3 came out, and it still works just fine. In fact, it's outlived my brother's arcade, despite having been acquired a year before it. I'd say the problem is that people are buying the cheapest model, and then complaining when they get the lowest quality parts. An extra $100 up front has already saved me $100 on the back end.

Also, If your controllers broke within a month of purchase, why the hell didn't you return them? The 30 day return policy and 90 day warranty are your friends.

 

[Char-Nobyl]

A recent interview with Tim Schafer. Not gonna find the link for you, the story is here on the escapist too.

Oh wait, you know what. I did it.

http://www.hookshotinc.com/interview-schafers-millions/

?But the indie community is now moving elsewhere; we?re figuring out how to fund and distribute games ourselves, and we?re getting more control over them. Those systems as great as they are, they?re still closed. You have to jump through a lot of hoops, even for important stuff like patching and supporting your game. Those are things we really want to do, but we can?t do it on these systems. I mean, it costs $40,000 to put up a patch ? we can?t afford that! Open systems like Steam, that allow us to set our own prices, that?s where it?s at, and doing it completely alone like Minecraft. That?s where people are going.?

lol, nice job ripping it from someone else's post.

I don't get my internet from them. And I don't have to pay for my multiplayer games, I also don't have to pay for Steam, Origins, GFWL, any other gaming platform.

Except that Steam and Origin are about as lenient to their user base as the guards at a concentration camp. It's no secret that Steam is only licensing you use of the games, but Origin goes the extra mile by having the alarming tendency to disable players from using the game discs that they physically bought.

Well, thanks to the limit of size for a patch, the costs for a patch alone and the time it takes to authorize a patch the Xbox kills community support for small games because the developer can't continue working on them. Nice to see that you support it.

I guess the "I see the problem with..." statement sailed right over your head. As did the "I enjoy my games being complete at time of launch" part.

If you sink a grand into a PC then you are an idiot. If you have regular problems with crashes, games and viruses you are incompetent.

I sank 400? for a good PC now 3 years ago, I have no problems running Serious Sam 3 on ultra. And if you seen SS 3 on ultra you know this game takes a serious PC to run it.

Jesus tapdancing Christ, does no one here ever think that some people prefer laptops? Because I do. Because I'm not at home half the time and still want to be able to user a computer.

 

[A Raging Emo]

I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.

You're obviously not looking hard enough.

It's like any major title on, say, the Wii. There are some gems out there, but they are encased in layer upon layer of absolute crap.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Steam is only licensing you use of the games

All software is licenses, you don't own your Xbox games either. Get over it.

 

[vivalahelvig]

My xbox has never broken down, because i don't use it! I'm a PC elitist douche bag!

OT: Yea, i don't use it, so I can't really help....

 

[LordDPS]

I might be in the minority but the PC gamers can keep their mods. There is a reason game developers generate content for their own games; it's because they're good at it. I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.

BTW I'm sorry to hear about the issues you've had with your 360's. I've got three in the house (2 Pros and a 360S) and none of them have had any problems.

Need i hang a lampshade on Team Fortress or Counter Strike? DotA?
Mods that spawned video game franchises that dominate multiplayer leader-boards.

Mods enhance the longevity of any game they are in, yes sturgeon's law is in effect just as it is for any Video Game Console.

when you make a comment based on limited experiences you invalidate any opinion you might have.

 

[Programmed_For_Damage]

I might be in the minority but the PC gamers can keep their mods. There is a reason game developers generate content for their own games; it's because they're good at it. I haven't seen a mod yet that isn't in some way half-arsed or stands out from the original content like dog's balls.

BTW I'm sorry to hear about the issues you've had with your 360's. I've got three in the house (2 Pros and a 360S) and none of them have had any problems.

Then you simply haven't looked good enough.

Fair enough, I'll cop to that statement. Given I don't play on the PC much anymore I'm not as well versed on mods as others. As I said, I'm purely going on what I've seen and subjectively speaking what you might think is good just doesn't do it for me.

And I used to play Counter Strike and Team Fortress a lot and the majority of the mods I played were shite in my opinion. Some were ok.

when you make a comment based on limited experiences you invalidate any opinion you might have.

Dude, you don't even know me, or how much experience I've had with games. I've been gaming for a long, long time.

 

[rob_simple]

All that and yet you bought four of the things and continue to pay for their internet services? When you keep throwing money at them like this, you are giving them every reason to think they are doing a fantastic job.

My thoughts exactly, this is starting to sound like Battered Wife Syndrome.

 

[Wolfram23]

Sure: http://www.videogamer.com/news/schafer_xbox_360_patches_cost_40k.html

Nothing against Tim Schafer, but are there any other sources? He casually mentions it, and then...nothing else.

Well, nothing official. Still, seems pretty outrageous. I guess it's the same/similar on all consoles, but at least on PC a dev can just throw a patch up on their website. Free minus the cost of the server space.

Those services are free in PS3, Wii, and PC... Xbox is the only one charging

Oh, yes, PS3. A living monument to the quality you get from a completely free service. The PC is already designed to connect to the internet, so that's a non-example, and the Wii...

Sorry, I couldn't stop laughing at the idea of playing online Wii games.

Honestly, I'm not sure what you mean about the PS3 jibe. Granted, I don't play a lot of PS3 games online, used to play a fair bit of CoD and Gran Turismo though as well as Demon's Souls, and didn't have any issues. I suppose the hacking thing was sucky but fortunately it didn't affect me.

Also, aren't all the consoles also designed to connect to the net? I mean they have ethernet ports just like a PC, and even include wireless which goes beyond most PCs. Basically, I don't see why exclude it from the list. Most PC game apps like Steam, Origin, Impulse, GFWL are totally free - although some of them suck some serious donkey you know what.

And well, the Wii... yeah... but, at least you can get Netflix on the Wii without a subscription to "Wii Live" lol.

Actually that's complete crap. I've used some huge overhaul mods on many games, in particular though STALKER: CoP and Skyrim, and the vast majority of mods do not and can not break because of the update. The exceptions are things like Skyrim Script Extender and SkyBoost which vastly improve game performance and the script library (Papyrus)

So they sometimes don't break with updates? And when they do, they're for stuff that are invaluable to game performance?

Great. How comforting.

Well... sort of. I suppose I put that very badly. Most mods are things like new textures and meshes, or simple edits of in game items - things that are not changed on a patch to patch basis. The likelyhood of a mod that adds a new armor or weapon or house breaking the game are extremely low.

The two examples I listed are literally the only two I know of right now. Neither of them will break the game if they aren't working and so far have been pretty quick to get updated after a patch.

...Ok. I disagree with the value assessments as well as the implication of huge instability, but we'll roll with it. Not like Xboxs ever break and need replacing. Oh... right.

I'd prefer a device that breaks over one that breaks and steals my personal data. At least I don't have any chance of fault in the former. Besides, when did a company ever extend a blanket warranty over a computer?

Well I guess the obvious thing to state is that nobody is stealing person data if a PC dies. I assume you mean you lose all your stored photos and other personal effects if a hard drive dies, and yes that is unfortunate. There are ways of mitigating that, though, from using cloud storage to backing up your own stuff on an external drive or just using RAID 1 (mirrors data between multiple drives).

Depends on the PC, a lot of them like Dells and HPs have limited warranties for a couple years. But, if you build your own, you generally get pretty good coverage. Most of my parts came with 2-3 year warranties, some are lifetime. It's really not that different from a console, though. Once the warranty is up you gotta pay to send it out and get it fixed.

Implying that open source is the perfect world is vastly different than implying consoles shouldn't exist, but I'm not going to put words in his mouth

Sorry, I saw "In a perfect world everyone would buy games only for the pc" and understandably assumed that this would require the nonexistence of consoles. My mistake.

No, I realize that's what he said. I agree with you that it is a bad sentiment overall. However, I think he may have meant something a little different than what he actually said. That was just my interpretation, like I said, I'm not trying to put words into his mouth.

Sad, the way monopolies work. Want to play DirectX video games on PC? You need Windows. I personally await the day games are made on open source code like OpenGL and I can simply run Ubuntu or whatever free OS.

You act like games have an incentive to be produced like that. The most recent high-profile game release without any disc protection (a different issue, but a big one for PC gaming) ended up being one of the most pirated games in history. And then the producers of The Witcher 2 had the gall to cry that the internet was being mean to them by not buying their easily-downloaded game.

The internet (and the people who inhabit it) so consistently screw developers across the entertainment industry that it's sheer luck that a few of them still cater to us from time to time.

Well first off, no I don't. I know there's little to no reason for games to be made on opensource code. The only big release in a long time to be made on OpenGL is RAGE. Pretty high profile game, but it's a rare one. All I'm saying is I'd like for that to happen. Or, hell, even for Linux to be able to run DirectX (though I'm sure Microsoft would never allow it). I don't hate Win 7, I mostly hate that there are good alternative operating systems that I can not game on.

DRM is a different issue for sure, not one I really see the need to get into here. Personally I'm mostly ok with it. Mostly. Not entirely.

You're right that it's surprising devs still cater to the PC crowd sometimes. From a pure business standpoint, for a big dev they would lose out on potentially huge sales by not going multiplatform, but it's not like PC gaming isn't profitable. Plus like I alluded to with the $400-500 PC, the minimum specs for gaming aren't really changing much so people who buy decent PCs now will still be able to game in several years. Sadly, people on old tech right now are out of luck, but basically as we move forward more and more people will have capable machines.

Anyway, my personal opinion is that consoles are good. They get more people into gaming, and as they mature games get better across the board (including PC ports). It's pretty simple to get away from consoles, really. You can get gaming on a PC for as little as $400-500 (plus a monitor, but same goes for a console). Sure, it will be outdated compared to the most modern tech in a year as new GPUs and CPUs get released, but compared to the software it will not be struggling any more than when it was new. Games just aren't really getting any more demanding on the minimum specs side of things.

But I commute really regularly. That plan would require me to buy a second computer that I can't use anytime except when I'm at home.

Well... yeah, that's unfortunate. I mean you could transport a small form factor PC around, but it's for sure more hassle than a console that fits into a backpack.

Sure, on PC you might need to troubleshoot an issue here and there (10 minutes on Google... less time than you spend reading this forum. Or Facebook) but otherwise, keep you PC in good condition and it'll last a long time. I think the slight inconveniences are vastly, vastly out striped by the benefits - but of course not everyone feels that way and I'm ok with it.

Now that is how you end an argument. Kudos, man. Not a lot of people can say something as reasonable as that while on the internet.

Um... thanks. I swear I'm not trying to be super argumentative here, rather just clear up (what I feel are) a few misconceptions.

 

[GenericAmerican]

I still have an original model 360 that works. If I leave it running to long it will die, but it always starts back up after a break.

I spend most of my time on my PC anyway so it doesn't matter.

 

[Parkway91]

I am still on my 1st gen PS3. I agree our online section could do with a little improvement, being hacked and taking what felt like years to fix. But as far as hardware, my 1st gen still works like fresh out the box. I feel I made an excellent choice.

 

[floppylobster]

Yet you're on your 4th Xbox. They must be doing something right or you would have never gotten the first one fixed. I don't love the Xbox 360, I prefer retro gaming myself, but I've had some fun on it. And all your arguments sounded like you want to love them but they make you hate them. Brand loyalty is not the reason people defend them. It's just that they also have had a lot of fun but without as many problems.