Monster Hunter Tri

[Kavachi]

If you had a blast with that game, be happy and play in peace, but don't start bothering us for having a diffrent opinion.

The only opinion being argued is Yahtzee's.
Yahtzee's opinion is his opinion and no one else's.
Many posters in these threads did not form their own opinion, but simply took his and said it was theirs.

Ergo, very few, if any, posters here are having their personal opinion attacked. They are having the opinion of Yahtzee attacked, and feel the need to defend him since he is not present.

*applause* Well that is some nice back-up you got there. But let's go even further back. Why did Yahtzee actually put this in his Extra Punctuation? Because you guys attacked his opinion. So, he is present, else he would never made that XP. Also, if you did like the game, why would you "attack", like you call it, Yahtzee's opinion. The main thing I hear you MH3 fans scream is that we should just fuck off if we don't like the game, but who actually started if Yahtzee's opinion was attacked? Right, you and the rest of those MH3 fans.
Also, I do have my own opinion, but as many times, Yahtzee knows to hit it right on the spot, so I don't defend HIS opinion, I just tell you guys what I'm thinking, and that's indeed very similair to Yahtzee's opinion.

 

[Mindmaker]

Furthermore, if you hate any game that is not immediately awesome in the first 15 minutes of playing it, you are extremely impatient and are missing out on many, many great games. In fact that precludes you from being able to enjoy whole genres.

Exactly.
It saddens me that games in the quality of Baldurs Gate, Planescape: Torment, Fallout 1&2, The Elder Scrolls 3: Morrowind and similar ones, have died out.
Games like Fallout 3 don't deserve to be called RPG, if you compare them to their ancestors.

And all that because todays games are tailored to fit such people...

See, although I agree with this, I must make one point of my own: they do need to have that quality showing, from the beginning. If you have the capability of making a great game, I can't understand why you wouldn't ensure that the first 15 minutes are at least GOOD.

I'm a writer, and when I took writing classes in college, we were regularly told "get your audience in the first paragraph (or sentence), or you won't get them". This is a fact of human nature we're dealing with here: give the viewer a reason to stay from the word go, or they won't. Period.

But in my opinion it does show quality.
I really can't understand what the people are complaining about.
The tutorial was really neat, showed you what this game is all about and gave you a prospect of what is yet to come (the giant sea monster that ambushes you).
I can understand if this some kind of general hate against tutorials, since most people also ignore the manual(I read it and miss the time when they used to be quite extensive).

I can agree with your book example to some degree.
I've read a lot of books, some of which started off fairly slow.
I even bought myself the extenden version of "The Stand", which promised to have an interesting plot, but even I couldn't get myself to read to the part where it started to get good.
But this is an extreme, nothing that can be compared with MH3.

 

[Kavachi]

Sorry for double post everybody, didn't see this guy.
You just said what I thought. "It doesn't change the fact that if you don'te njoy the game it won't matter though." Why do you even care what Yahtzee thinks? It may be interesting to see, but if that is your reason and you know he will rip it apart than why bother replying? What you and all MH3 fans are doing here is trying to protect you're precious game form the outside world, but why? You just said it, so why do you care. If you had a blast with that game, be happy and play in peace, but don't start bothering us for having a diffrent opinion.

I don't care what Yahtzee thinks and I wasn't trying to defend "my precious" game. I was informing you of the situation. I doubt Yahtzee even reads these comments. The point of my post was that you asked why they would give 50 minutes and I wanted to explain that it's just for continuity reasons.

Alright, I get it. And btw, I also doubt if he reads the comment, I was just trying to discuss the situation with you. And if that was your only reason, why did you add that last critical sentence to it?

I added that sentence because I don't like shoving my opinion down peoples throats just like I don't like having peoples opinions shoved down mine. It was there mostly as a disclaimer that no matter what I said won't make the game magically better for anyone. Sorry if that's not how you read it.

But don't you see that what you were doing trying to describe the situation is shoving your opinion down our throats? And if you really believe that, why would you even write your reply as you already said it won't make the game magically better. And besides, if you don't like having an opinion shoved down you're throad, why did you even bother comming to the comments section on a REVIEW, cause all review comments are opinions ready for some throat-shoving.

 

[Pontus Hashis]

Why is the world talking about Shadow of the collossus and Ico the past weeks?
Im agonised for not having it!!!

 

[Loonerinoes]

I do love how all the MHT defenders are focusing exclusively on the "tutorial = 10 hours" thing. Because when your argument rests entirely on a literal approach to one particular bit of exaggeration in someone's article, you know you have righteousness on your side, for certain sure.

And I do love how all the Yahtzee fanboys claim that he was "just exaggerating" whenever he posts fallacies. What else do you want us to focus on anyway dude? His complaint that "weapons break"? You really expect people to grace such a petty complaint with a reply? Making weapons break less is part of the character progression in MH3. You don't like it and want to call a game shit because of it? Ok. Whatever. Then Mass Effect is also shit, because you don't have infinite ammo and have to reload your weapons. Everyone knows that reloading is pointless and tedious and, to paraphrase Yahztee's article, if you are fighting an enemy and your clip is empty, you have to choose between running away in order to reload and risk having the enemies ruin your shit, or you can just sit there and stare at them. Except, if you actually claim that Mass Effect is shit because of that, people will call you an idiot and be RIGHT, while with Moster Hunter they are just fanboys.

Mass Effect 1 doesn't need you to reload...and if you refer to Mass Effect 2, that one happens to have a decent alternative whenever you need to reload. A decent melee attack.

Now you're just selectively picking Yahtzee's statements from various games and putting them into totally different contexts just to 'win' this argument.

You should chill out. Because you *are* getting worked up about this. No really...quit lying to yourself, you are.

 

[troqu]

But don't you see that what you were doing trying to describe the situation is shoving your opinion down our throats? And if you really believe that, why would you even write your reply as you already said it won't make the game magically better. And besides, if you don't like having an opinion shoved down you're throad, why did you even bother comming to the comments section on a REVIEW, cause all review comments are opinions ready for some throat-shoving.

I disagree that commenting on a review is all about opinions, but since that's your view on it, all discussion in the world is just about throwing your opinions in someones face. Stating an something doesn't mean I'm trying to make my opinion yours. Either way we're done here. I'll be awaiting your eventual reply, but know that I won't respond to this line of conversation anymore because it's just going to become a flame war if it continues. I'm sorry that you feel so differently from me on this matter.

 

[Kavachi]

But don't you see that what you were doing trying to describe the situation is shoving your opinion down our throats? And if you really believe that, why would you even write your reply as you already said it won't make the game magically better. And besides, if you don't like having an opinion shoved down you're throad, why did you even bother comming to the comments section on a REVIEW, cause all review comments are opinions ready for some throat-shoving.

I disagree that commenting on a review is all about opinions, but since that's your view on it, all discussion in the world is just about throwing your opinions in someones face. Stating an something doesn't mean I'm trying to make my opinion yours. Either way we're done here. I'll be awaiting your eventual reply, but know that I won't respond to this line of conversation anymore because it's just going to become a flame war if it continues. I'm sorry that you feel so differently from me on this matter.

All right, gotta give it to you, you are right there, we're not gonna change our minds and this is pointless. Greetings, 'till we meet again.

 

[golbleen]

*applause* Well that is some nice back-up you got there. But let's go even further back. Why did Yahtzee actually put this in his Extra Punctuation? Because you guys attacked his opinion. So, he is present, else he would never made that XP.

Right. So why do Yahtzee's fans need to continue defending him? It's clear he could continue this dialogue as long as he wanted, without your help.

Also, if you did like the game, why would you "attack", like you call it, Yahtzee's opinion.

Because it's based off of false and misconstrued facts.

The main thing I hear you MH3 fans scream is that we should just fuck off if we don't like the game, but who actually started if Yahtzee's opinion was attacked? Right, you and the rest of those MH3 fans.

The main thing I hear from you Yahtzee fans is the Strawman Fallacy, which happens to be why this section of your post is wrong. Please stop using it and we can continue an intelligent dialogue at a future date.

Also, I do have my own opinion, but as many times, Yahtzee knows to hit it right on the spot, so I don't defend HIS opinion, I just tell you guys what I'm thinking, and that's indeed very similair to Yahtzee's opinion.

This is a similar phenomenon to how horoscopes profit off of their followers; the psychological effect known as confirmation bias. Effectively, your mind analyzes his opinion but only grasps the vague key points he mentions that agree with yours, therefore projecting yourself onto him in a sort of idealization and discarding matter his review produces that doesn't fit into this 'right on the spot' opinion that you 'share.'

It is impossible for your opinion and Mr. Croshaw's opinion on any single given subject matter to be perfectly contiguous. Multiple slight or even major deviations are bound to exist out of the billions of people in the world that exist, with various points and counterpoints all weighted differently, creating incongruities.

Basically, MHtri fans don't care about your opinion. They care about Yahtzee's, because he has a public speaking medium that others project onto in doubt, giving him a by-and-large somewhat dangerous amount of control over the gaming medium, if left uncriticized.

 

[deckai]

Also, I do have my own opinion, but as many times, Yahtzee knows to hit it right on the spot, so I don't defend HIS opinion, I just tell you guys what I'm thinking, and that's indeed very similair to Yahtzee's opinion.

Wait, how is it possible to have a opinion on a game you havn't played?

At best you can have a opinion on other opinions...

 

[Nazrel]

Now, generally I'm not the sort of person who likes to cheaply strawman their enemies by repeating their sentences back to them in a high-pitched mocking tone of voice, but here's a brief summary of my email inbox after the Monster Hunter Tri review: "Mneh mneh mneh. You didn't play it long enough. Mneh mneh mneh. Metacritic said it was good. Mneh mneh mneh. I just did one in my pants. Mneh."

I won't bother quoting specific examples, suffice to say there were a lot of them. The main thrust of the argument was that Monster Hunter Tri totally gets good once you've gotten past the tutorial, which takes about ten hours of gameplay.

Ten hours. Do you people listen to yourselves? Maybe if I had your kind of wealthy, privileged lifestyle and could spend most of my days idly playing Wii by the pool as a team of oiled bodybuilders fanned me with palm fronds, but some of us have jobs to do. Articles to write. Other, better games to review. Fun Space Games to avoid working on. As I've said time and again, "it gets better later" as an excuse does not wash for me. Even if the game is 50 percent poo and 50 percent mind-blowing envelope-pushing extravaganza, that's still mediocre on average.

I would like people to have a look at the above paragraphs.

Now I'm going to highlight the important parts.

(((repeating their sentences back to them)))(((You didn't play it long enough)))(((The main thrust of the argument was that Monster Hunter Tri totally gets good once you've gotten past the tutorial, which takes about ten hours of gameplay.)))(((Ten hours. Do you people listen to yourselves?)))

The implication is A) Yahtzee didn't get by the tutorial, ergo B) the 10 statement was based on second hand information obtained via E-Mails from fans of the game i.e. You, as in the group you are a part of.

I don't mind that you bashing Yahtzee, but in annoys me to see people complain as a group about a misconception that they themselves provided.

 

[Normalgamer]

*slow clap* I totally agree, Yahtzee. The game shouldn't start getting good 10 hours in. Would you have sex with a cheese grater if somebody promised it "gets good" 10 minutes in? I don't think so. It's the same excuse as, "She's nice once you get to know her." It's another way of saying, "She's a ***** and has no social skills, but she isn't half as mean to her friends."

A good game should be good from beginning to end. The tutorial shouldn't be terrible, nor should it be 10 hours long (if it takes 10 hours to explain how to play the game, it is either too complicated or you need to learn how to explain things better).

I swear that some of the people defending these games are suffering from Stockholm syndrome. They paid so much for their games that they have to see them through to the end, and once they get past the 10 hour mark, even the slightest improvement seems like a blessing, because they've become accustomed to such horrible gameplay the rest of the way through. It isn't fun or entertaining, it's servitude. They play the game because they have to in order to justify the time, money, and effort they have already invested in it.

PS: I haven't tried Monster Hunter Tri, nor do I intend to. If it really does take 10 hours to get "good", it isn't worth my time.

Okay, guys, the tutorial isn't 10 hours long, he was exaggerating, all of you need to realise that in all of Yahtzee's reviews, he EXAGGERATES. kthxbai.
Edit: Yes I probably mispelled Exhaggerate or however ou spell it.

 

[golbleen]

ergo B) the 10 statement was based on second hand information obtained via E-Mails from fans of the game i.e. You, as in the group you are a part of.

I don't mind that you bashing Yahtzee, but in annoys me to see people complain as a group about a misconception that they themselves provided.

1) Groups are not perfectly contiguous entities. See Association Fallacy.

2) The 10-hour figure was not given to him by fans of the game. It was given most commonly as a Strawman Fallacy argument by detractors of the game, superimposed over the tutorial remarks made by fans of the game.

Do you understand?

 

[mike1921]

Blah blah blah, MH3 does not have a 10 hour tutorial. It has a 90 minute tutorial, unless you linger on, doing things that are unnecessary forever. Do them for a bit, explore a bit, then move on. Do you need a manual to play this game, someone to hold your hand? You don't like some elements of it, sure, I accept that, but saying it has a 10 hour tutorial is like reviewing WoW and spending your first 10 hours picking herbs and then saying "In this game you do nothing but pick herbs for the first 10 hours". That's pretty silly.

Also, WELL UP YOURS TOO, PRICK!

Hearing "It has a 90 minute tutorial, not a 10 hour one" is like hearing "You aren't raped by several hairy men, there's only one". It's not really making the situation sound particularly more appealing

 

[golbleen]

Hearing "It has a 90 minute tutorial, not a 10 hour one" is like hearing "You aren't raped by several hairy men, there's only one". It's not really making the situation sound particularly more appealing

This is actually acceptable game pacing for people who play games that aren't cinema-like twitch experiences, such as RPGs.

You can't judge all games by the same parameters of pacing, as such.

 

[geldonyetich]

He's still completely missing that the point of the game was the unique online multiplayer hunting game on a platform where online multiplayer can rarely ever be found.

The reason why you're restricted to one weapon is the different hunters that come along with you are expected to fill the other niches. The small sword and shield guy is essentially the tank that keeps the monster good and distracted so the guys with the big-ponderous weapons or ranged weapons can lay on the DPS.

Basically, single player mode is one giant practice mode that doubles as a means to level-up your hunter offline. The tutorial isn't a 10 hour grind. The single player mode is one giant, flexible tutorial you can drop out of whenever you feel confident enough to play the real game by going online.

That the single player mode may pass as a whole game in and of itself is part of the genius of the series. Sure, if you want to grind alone and pass on most of the game, you can, and still feel relatively as though you paid for a complete game.

 

[joshthor]

He reviewed Dragon age without finishing it and he said he wasn't sick of it.

in fairness dragon age took me 75 hours to finish. he also had a review to write and a video to make, he didnt have time for the whole game.

 

[xavierxenon]

I can't help but laugh at the mindless drones posting here.

I also can't help but laugh at this:

The last mission I played was one that had me hunting and killing some giant version of the velociraptor lads.

This shows that he barely even played it for an hour. Must be so nice to be ignorant.

 

[Worgen]

really didnt play it right, why on earth would you use the wiimote when you have a classic controller? and seriously you only got to the bigger jaggi thing, thats pretty early in the game, seriously it only sounds like you played it for a few hours, I hate to say it given your tender tummy but you should have gone online, just join a random game and at least seen how a fight against a real monster goes, hell, you probably could have gotten ppl to just fight it as you watched if you were so inclined

 

[joshthor]

Hearing "It has a 90 minute tutorial, not a 10 hour one" is like hearing "You aren't raped by several hairy men, there's only one". It's not really making the situation sound particularly more appealing

This is actually acceptable game pacing for people who play games that aren't cinema-like twitch experiences, such as RPGs.

You can't judge all games by the same parameters of pacing, as such.

i disagree. i hate tutorials and i play alot of rpgs. if i have to stick to a tutorial that long i quit, unless its actually an interesting tutorial.

 

[soapyshooter]

10 hour tutorial? WTF? it doesn't take that long to be certified a fucking medic in AA and in that game you actually learn something useful