i see. i visited detructoid twice to learn mroe about who Jim is, but both times i didnt really like the subject (nothing wrong with the site, im just not interested in this "vita games marathon" thing they had. so i didnt go as far as noticing podtoid.Chapper said:
Movie Defense Force: Alien 3
- Thread starter Jimothy Sterling
- Start date
I never had a problem with Alien 3. I didn't find Newt particularly annoying, but I don't see what use her character could have in any sequel - if she were to survive her role would be getting captured repeatedly for a Ripley rescue. So it is probably for the best the movies killed the old cast.
That said, it's flaws are there.
I always thought the worst was Alien 4, when they bring Ripley back to life on board the military science ship. At this point I bring myself to think of all the Resident Evil movies (god awful thigns they are) and this as the point they spawned from.
That said, it's flaws are there.
I always thought the worst was Alien 4, when they bring Ripley back to life on board the military science ship. At this point I bring myself to think of all the Resident Evil movies (god awful thigns they are) and this as the point they spawned from.
Oh dear, Jim. You did not just call Ripley's shoehorned dead daughter subplot from the Aliens director's cut a "good" character development, right?
That shit was adding an emotinal core were none was needed. The reason Ripley and Newt bonded the way they did is because they were both survivors of an Alien attack, not because Ripley saw in Newt her long lost shoehorned daughter. It was bullshit!
Can't comment on Alien 3 since it was years when I last saw it. But if you say the characters from Alien had no character or character development, it means you haven't been watching the movie or that the ability to detect subtlety in movies is completely gone from today's audience. I fear it's the latter.
And the worst thing to ever happen to the Alien was turning it into a space bug. Courtesy of James Cameron.
That shit was adding an emotinal core were none was needed. The reason Ripley and Newt bonded the way they did is because they were both survivors of an Alien attack, not because Ripley saw in Newt her long lost shoehorned daughter. It was bullshit!
Can't comment on Alien 3 since it was years when I last saw it. But if you say the characters from Alien had no character or character development, it means you haven't been watching the movie or that the ability to detect subtlety in movies is completely gone from today's audience. I fear it's the latter.
And the worst thing to ever happen to the Alien was turning it into a space bug. Courtesy of James Cameron.
Alien3 is more like the original Alien IMO, more of a horror movie than Aliens, which let's face it, it's not a horror, it's an action movie.
But to say that Alien3 is better than Aliens, well WTF have you been smoking Jim!
Aliens is about the best sci-fi movie ever made, it's held in the same regard as Bladerunner, Star Wars, Robocop, Predator, Terminator - Alien3 is not.
I like all the Alien movies, even Ressurection, but Aliens transcends it's own genre and stands on it's own as a great movie, Alien also stands on it's own as a great movie, Alien3 relies on Alien and Aliens to make any sort of impact. Visually it's great (sans the ropey 90's CGI), but it doesn't do anything that Bladerunner, Aliens, Predator etc didn't already do better - if you think about gritty sci-fi, you think Bladerunner or Mad Max, the future scenes in Terminator - nobody really thinks of Alien3, mostly because the CGI lets it down so much.
The prisoners are basically just the marines from Aliens with social issues. Ripley has to gain their trust, has to be almost raped, has to see some of them die... these are necessary plot vehicles. The point of Alien3 isn't that criminals can change, can stop raping people, or that people can change in general, the point of the prisoners was just like any non-Ripley character in any Alien movie, to die, so that Ripleys survival counts for more. If your names not Ripley, your cannon fodder, whether you survive or not, Ripley is the constant - you think that if they made an Aliens4, Winona Ryder would be playing the part of her semi-adopted robot daughter?, you think she'd be hanging out with Ron Perlman?, making wise-cracks over breakfast about her acid blood and questionable genetic makeup? You shouldn't get so attached to disposable commodities - but in any case, most people can probably tell you their favorite Aliens marine, but then ask them who their favorite rapist was from Alien3.
Let's be honest though, Ridley Scott took a huge steaming dump on the whole Aliens and vs Predator franchise with Permetheus. God, I hope he doesn't do the same to Bladerunner.
But to say that Alien3 is better than Aliens, well WTF have you been smoking Jim!
Aliens is about the best sci-fi movie ever made, it's held in the same regard as Bladerunner, Star Wars, Robocop, Predator, Terminator - Alien3 is not.
I like all the Alien movies, even Ressurection, but Aliens transcends it's own genre and stands on it's own as a great movie, Alien also stands on it's own as a great movie, Alien3 relies on Alien and Aliens to make any sort of impact. Visually it's great (sans the ropey 90's CGI), but it doesn't do anything that Bladerunner, Aliens, Predator etc didn't already do better - if you think about gritty sci-fi, you think Bladerunner or Mad Max, the future scenes in Terminator - nobody really thinks of Alien3, mostly because the CGI lets it down so much.
The prisoners are basically just the marines from Aliens with social issues. Ripley has to gain their trust, has to be almost raped, has to see some of them die... these are necessary plot vehicles. The point of Alien3 isn't that criminals can change, can stop raping people, or that people can change in general, the point of the prisoners was just like any non-Ripley character in any Alien movie, to die, so that Ripleys survival counts for more. If your names not Ripley, your cannon fodder, whether you survive or not, Ripley is the constant - you think that if they made an Aliens4, Winona Ryder would be playing the part of her semi-adopted robot daughter?, you think she'd be hanging out with Ron Perlman?, making wise-cracks over breakfast about her acid blood and questionable genetic makeup? You shouldn't get so attached to disposable commodities - but in any case, most people can probably tell you their favorite Aliens marine, but then ask them who their favorite rapist was from Alien3.
Let's be honest though, Ridley Scott took a huge steaming dump on the whole Aliens and vs Predator franchise with Permetheus. God, I hope he doesn't do the same to Bladerunner.
I like the aliens trilogy its just people had a hard time to get along with a serise that went from horror to action and back to horror. I like them all as i do with the three predator films - not the AVP films they were pretty rubbish and retarded but otherwise agree and good going Jim nice to get your film opinion out through this show 
To start, like the new show. Agree with whats already been posted that the whistling music in the background was a bit annoying, but it sounds like you are going to fix that. Looking forward to more as you bring up some interesting points. So with that taken care of, my retort.
The issues with the opening scene have already been covered so I will be brief, drowing in a tube isn't a peaceful death. Plus, the issue for me isn't so much that Hicks and Newt died, but that they were sort of just removed off screen. I realize getting actors back can be an issue, but that was sort of a big middle finger to the ending of Aliens. Getting the egg on the ship was beyond contrived as well as having her go off course yet arrive somewhere "safely" yet again.
Now, let's talk characterization. Yes Charle Dance's character was given a real arc, thats great, but that was about it. Dillon's character was pretty much the same from start to finish and, to me, not particularly interesting even though they were trying to bring up some deeper duality stuff. The rest of the cast may as well have been CGI, animatronics, or muppets for all they mattered to me. Whats even worse is that they looked so similarly that they were all but indistinguishable. Nothing more than fodder.
Compare that to the first two movies, where, as much as they may not have had the depth that Dance was given, I knew who every character was and to this day can name every crew member and every solider in those two movies. Each of those characters was more of a person with less screen time and development than nearly everyone in 3.
Now you can talk beatiful sets, I will point out that the cinemetography, lighting and sound in part 1 blew away 3. Watch the scene where Parker and Lambert get it and tell me there is any scene in part 3 with near that tension. I will give full props to the scene w/ Riply and the alien in her face, I think everyone recognizes that, but its not much more than a great still. Never once do I get moved in that movie like I do getting the first view of the eggs, or seeing Dallas swing the flame thrower back and forth in the vent shaft.
As for Aliens, its more action than thriller and that is where it shines. The pacing is spot on. It is textbook roller coaster. (On a side note, if you are going to include removed footage, the automated guns scene from Aliens director's cut is phenomenal and its too bad it was left out). Part 3 starts slow, stays slow, and simply never gets your heart pounding. Even the final "battle" goes on way too long and doesn't really feel like much is really happening. I mean its seriously like 20 minutes of monster-cam running down tunnels with the same door closing repeatedly and a couple more nameless dudes getting killed.
And, while it may not be the mark of a great movie, how many quotes have been taken from Aliens? Can you think of a single thing from part 3, the dying on your knees speech maybe, that has been quoted even half as much as the stuff from Aliens? Heck, I bet even the more mundane sutff like "I guess she don't like the cornbread either" has been quoted more.
Now, you are right that Alien3 really did try and take the story somewhere new and different. And kudos to it for that. As expressed it had a lasting impact on the lore. But that doesn't make the movie any good. It had interesting ideas, but were poorly implemented in a movie that was a real chore.
The issues with the opening scene have already been covered so I will be brief, drowing in a tube isn't a peaceful death. Plus, the issue for me isn't so much that Hicks and Newt died, but that they were sort of just removed off screen. I realize getting actors back can be an issue, but that was sort of a big middle finger to the ending of Aliens. Getting the egg on the ship was beyond contrived as well as having her go off course yet arrive somewhere "safely" yet again.
Now, let's talk characterization. Yes Charle Dance's character was given a real arc, thats great, but that was about it. Dillon's character was pretty much the same from start to finish and, to me, not particularly interesting even though they were trying to bring up some deeper duality stuff. The rest of the cast may as well have been CGI, animatronics, or muppets for all they mattered to me. Whats even worse is that they looked so similarly that they were all but indistinguishable. Nothing more than fodder.
Compare that to the first two movies, where, as much as they may not have had the depth that Dance was given, I knew who every character was and to this day can name every crew member and every solider in those two movies. Each of those characters was more of a person with less screen time and development than nearly everyone in 3.
Now you can talk beatiful sets, I will point out that the cinemetography, lighting and sound in part 1 blew away 3. Watch the scene where Parker and Lambert get it and tell me there is any scene in part 3 with near that tension. I will give full props to the scene w/ Riply and the alien in her face, I think everyone recognizes that, but its not much more than a great still. Never once do I get moved in that movie like I do getting the first view of the eggs, or seeing Dallas swing the flame thrower back and forth in the vent shaft.
As for Aliens, its more action than thriller and that is where it shines. The pacing is spot on. It is textbook roller coaster. (On a side note, if you are going to include removed footage, the automated guns scene from Aliens director's cut is phenomenal and its too bad it was left out). Part 3 starts slow, stays slow, and simply never gets your heart pounding. Even the final "battle" goes on way too long and doesn't really feel like much is really happening. I mean its seriously like 20 minutes of monster-cam running down tunnels with the same door closing repeatedly and a couple more nameless dudes getting killed.
And, while it may not be the mark of a great movie, how many quotes have been taken from Aliens? Can you think of a single thing from part 3, the dying on your knees speech maybe, that has been quoted even half as much as the stuff from Aliens? Heck, I bet even the more mundane sutff like "I guess she don't like the cornbread either" has been quoted more.
Now, you are right that Alien3 really did try and take the story somewhere new and different. And kudos to it for that. As expressed it had a lasting impact on the lore. But that doesn't make the movie any good. It had interesting ideas, but were poorly implemented in a movie that was a real chore.
Sorry Jim but Alien 3 is alright at best, but not even in the same realm as Aliens. Your whole argument about the dialogue and writing in Alien 3 being the best is just absolutely absurd, there is a reason that there have spawned countless quotes from Aliens and not from the third movie because it was overall completely dull.
I personally love all the Alien movies (not the AVP movies, hell no!) and consider them the best Scifi movies period, but to say that Alien 3 is the strongest is just nonsensical. If this is going to be the essence of this new series just shitting on other movies as your best defense for bad movies, then I have pretty much lost interest already.
I personally love all the Alien movies (not the AVP movies, hell no!) and consider them the best Scifi movies period, but to say that Alien 3 is the strongest is just nonsensical. If this is going to be the essence of this new series just shitting on other movies as your best defense for bad movies, then I have pretty much lost interest already.
Good video. I've always said that Alien 3 is easily as good as the first two and it's nice to see so many with the same opinion.
I loved Alien 3 (albeit the Director's Cut) and never fully understood the stick it got from fans and critics alike. Alien Resurecction, however, I did.
But Aliens is by far the best film in the series and I dare say the entire frnachise, as each death was crushing and even when you believed the film was coming to a close, they go ahead and took away another character.
But Aliens is by far the best film in the series and I dare say the entire frnachise, as each death was crushing and even when you believed the film was coming to a close, they go ahead and took away another character.
I never thought Alien 3 was bad, it was just kinda 'meh' nothing really new or astounding but it functions well as a movie.
I agree Master Sterling that it's better than most people give it credit, but the best in the series? I think you're pushing it there.
Now do Ang Lee's Hulk.
I agree Master Sterling that it's better than most people give it credit, but the best in the series? I think you're pushing it there.
Now do Ang Lee's Hulk.
I like the concept for this new series. Every enjoyable film doesn't have to be an Oscar winner so it's nice to have something on the Escapist that is almost a throw back to drive in B-movies. Films that aren't going to crack many best of list but still offer something up for the viewer.
Yea Aliens 3 biggest problem was having to be a follow up to Aliens. Just kind of hard to have such a big change in tone between two films. But on it's own and even with the host of problems caused by the studio Aliens 3 does have plenty to offer up as a movie.
Yea Aliens 3 biggest problem was having to be a follow up to Aliens. Just kind of hard to have such a big change in tone between two films. But on it's own and even with the host of problems caused by the studio Aliens 3 does have plenty to offer up as a movie.
There was nothing shoehorned about it. Ripley's entire character arc was built around Ripley regaining a lost child and becoming a mother again - the dead daughter works to that specific purpose, and makes perfect sense in the setting, tone and the story.Casual Shinji said:
As for Alien, I disagree with Sterling's claim (and agree with yours) that they aren't developed characters. It's more that they are like normal people, each with distinctive personalities, but lacking the obvious distinguishing features that are exaggerated by most movies. It didn't have "the angry one, the fatherly one, the bookish one" or whatever, like most movies, it just had ordinary guys. It's a lot like The Thing in that regard; most of the personalities aren't spelt out, they're just hinted.
I didn't get too far due to the whistling, but I like the concept for this series.
I really did not like the intro: the sound was muddled, it was way too long. I suspect it will be pared down for subsequent episodes, and I suppose ultimately it's easy enough to skip.
I really did not like the intro: the sound was muddled, it was way too long. I suspect it will be pared down for subsequent episodes, and I suppose ultimately it's easy enough to skip.