Movie Defense Force: Alien 3

[MonkeyPunch]

Good show. More please.

I really liked Alien 3 when I first saw it at the movies. I don't know where I would rate it compared to the others because they are all so different and all have something to offer, but I know that I didn't have this great dislike of the film like others seem to have.
I must say though that up to now I think it's the Alien I've re-watched the least out of all of them.

btw. I highly recommend people watch the "making-of" of all the Alien movies if you haven't. Really interesting.

 

[Metalrocks]

covered some good points but i still dislike this movie. to me its just boring and a cash grab and i still dint care about the characters.
i only got my self alien, aliens and resurrection. i skipped part 3 from this franchise and i really dont miss it at all. the best alien movie, is still part 2. thats unbeatable from all 4 of them.

btw. the intro is too long.

 

[kburns10]

I like this show and I'm actually EXCITED to disagree with him. All my friends have ragged on Alien 3 to the point I refused to watch it. This makes me want to see it now. Plus, some of his points might just change my mind on certain movies.

 

[gsf1200]

Alien 3 is the absolute, worst movie ever made. I hate it, and I don't care who likes it. It started terrible, and just got worse. I didn't find newt annoying at all. Bill Paxton was annoying, but he was supposed to be. Aliens is one of the best movies ever made. Alien 3 reminds me of The Road, another movie that is just dull and hopeless. The good guys are supposed to win in the end. When the good guy dies for no reason, there is no point to the movie for me.

 

[roushutsu]

I like where this show is going. It's been years since I've seen Alien 3, but I didn't remember it being a bad movie at all. It was pretty good and it ended Ripley's story effectively, at least until Resurrection came along and decided "NOPE!"

So judging from the intro, I guess Freddy vs. Jason and Hellraiser 3 are next? That should be interesting.

 

[Kapol]

I know it's not, but the opening wasn't supposed to be a bit of a joke towards Moviebob was it?

Anyways, good video and interesting series. I haven't seen the Alien series (not a fan or horror), but it was still interesting to watch you defend it. Might be worth warning people these will likely have spoilers. Even if I doubt anyone would care.

Are you going to be doing any really bad movies though? Like Birdemic, The Room, or the Twilight series?

 

[SAMAS]

I think this was a pretty well thought-out argument, except for one thing:

Jim's assertion that the Xenomorphs always win.

Simply put, they don't. They may kill a lot of people, but in the end, the Xenomorph threat is always wiped out by the end of the film. The first one got spaced, the Queen got a Power Loader shoved down both throats and then spaced. The Runner was killed then Ripley killed herself to kill the last chestburster. The Hybrid got spaced (again!). The ones in the AVP movies get nuked. The Xenos in the Capcom Beat-Em-Up got a battleship dropped on their heads. The outside possibility that one of them may have survived (the best outcome they ever get in the movies and most games) can only be considered a win if you look at in the Orkish sense ("we kin always come back fer anuvver go!").

 

[Chris Pranger]

I'm really pleased with this. I finally have something decent to watch on Thursdays on The Escapist, and it's about time.

I really love the deep analysis at work here. Very well-done and perfectly paced. As someone who hasn't actually seen the movie in question, it was still a fascinating watch. Naturally, the show's premise makes me very excited for future weeks and to discover what new movie will be explored, and perhaps what I'll learn as a result.

The comments I've seen about the background music being slightly high are ones I share as well, and thankfully that's a really easy fix: Turn the background music up to max.

Excellent work Jim! Can't wait to see what next week will bring!

 

[Skeleon]

At the risk of saying something somebody else already said in this thread?
My defense for Alien 3 is... that it's not Alien 4.
Alien 3 is the proper ending to the story. It may not be perfect, but it's alright, especially in comparison. Ripley's dead and took the queen embryo with her.

 

[Rad Party God]

I like this new series, especially because it's Jimgod himself.

I never thought of Alien 3 as a "bad movie" perse, but it's definitely not my favorite one of the bunch, but I still appreciated it for being more emotional and kinda returning the series to it's roots, with defenseless humans in an "alien" futuristic complex, trapped inside with an "alien" organism that tries to rip their faces off.

In fact, I never thought of Newt's death as an unnecessary ploy for the movie, even when I was a child when I watched it for the first time, I completely understood that Newt dying wasn't unnecessary considering the circumstances (and the excuse that the Alien spider/hand kept Ripley alive, wich is kinda plausible if you think about it).

In the end though, it could definitely be worse... it's not Alien Resurrection...

Great start, definitely looking forward to see more of this.

 

[Podunk]

I thought that was good; I was worried that just because it's Jim we were going to get the same character as the Jimquisition but instead we got Jim's smarts without all of the pretentiousness which I think is good for this show. Interesting and intelligently put together, the only thing I didn't like was the theme song which sounds absolutely awful.

 

[mrhateful]

While I actually agreed with most of the things you said, two things still makes this movie worse for me. 3D graphics that makes you wanna vomit and because of that horror done so badly that its not horror anymore. Also I dislike a prison like environment because I prefer aliens beating top of the line soldiers and facilities than some defenseless prisoners but that's more a personal preference. So for all these reasons Aliens is still the best for me Followed by alien 4 which is a dumb movie but at-least it has what I look for in an alien movie.

 

[Strazdas]

also wtf is podtoid.

It's the podcast Jim hosts over at Destructoid.com. If you like Jim, I'm sure you'll find the podcast entertaining.

As for the show, I like it. Background music was a bit too loud at certain points, but that's a nitpick, I suppose. Think I'll have to watch Alien 3 again now.

i see. i visited detructoid twice to learn mroe about who Jim is, but both times i didnt really like the subject (nothing wrong with the site, im just not interested in this "vita games marathon" thing they had. so i didnt go as far as noticing podtoid.

 

[marurder]

I never had a problem with Alien 3. I didn't find Newt particularly annoying, but I don't see what use her character could have in any sequel - if she were to survive her role would be getting captured repeatedly for a Ripley rescue. So it is probably for the best the movies killed the old cast.

That said, it's flaws are there.

I always thought the worst was Alien 4, when they bring Ripley back to life on board the military science ship. At this point I bring myself to think of all the Resident Evil movies (god awful thigns they are) and this as the point they spawned from.

 

[Frezzato]

Spoiler: Continuity within the Alien time line

gets completely screwed up, making AvP2 even stupider.

See, that's the major reason I dislike it.

The rest of the points you made sit just fin with me. I infact really like the surprise of

Spoiler

what happened to the love interest.

I really wasn't expecting it to happen, and it was a ballsy move.

The rest of the film however. Boring, makes little sense, fucks up canon, lingers far too long in 'rule of cool' territory and has disappointing creature design. The predator alien hybrid could have been interesting. Instead, it was poorly thought through and fucked up the movie.

Thus, we end up with my own horrifying confession: I actually didn't hate Aliens Versus Predator Requiem. That movie broke a lot of rules that really shouldn't be broken and, while I don't approve of the gore, they really did broach the issue of what you could show in a movie--and didn't shy away from it. Somebody had to do it eventually, it's just too bad they did it with the Alien franchise. In retrospect, the lighting was too dark and the gore was really distracting, so I have to agree with you (and like 99% of people who saw it). AvP Requiem was quite a terrible waste of time. But damn, it was groundbreaking in a bad way.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Oh dear, Jim. You did not just call Ripley's shoehorned dead daughter subplot from the Aliens director's cut a "good" character development, right?

That shit was adding an emotinal core were none was needed. The reason Ripley and Newt bonded the way they did is because they were both survivors of an Alien attack, not because Ripley saw in Newt her long lost shoehorned daughter. It was bullshit!

Can't comment on Alien 3 since it was years when I last saw it. But if you say the characters from Alien had no character or character development, it means you haven't been watching the movie or that the ability to detect subtlety in movies is completely gone from today's audience. I fear it's the latter.

And the worst thing to ever happen to the Alien was turning it into a space bug. Courtesy of James Cameron.

 

[surg3n]

Alien3 is more like the original Alien IMO, more of a horror movie than Aliens, which let's face it, it's not a horror, it's an action movie.

But to say that Alien3 is better than Aliens, well WTF have you been smoking Jim!

Aliens is about the best sci-fi movie ever made, it's held in the same regard as Bladerunner, Star Wars, Robocop, Predator, Terminator - Alien3 is not.

I like all the Alien movies, even Ressurection, but Aliens transcends it's own genre and stands on it's own as a great movie, Alien also stands on it's own as a great movie, Alien3 relies on Alien and Aliens to make any sort of impact. Visually it's great (sans the ropey 90's CGI), but it doesn't do anything that Bladerunner, Aliens, Predator etc didn't already do better - if you think about gritty sci-fi, you think Bladerunner or Mad Max, the future scenes in Terminator - nobody really thinks of Alien3, mostly because the CGI lets it down so much.

The prisoners are basically just the marines from Aliens with social issues. Ripley has to gain their trust, has to be almost raped, has to see some of them die... these are necessary plot vehicles. The point of Alien3 isn't that criminals can change, can stop raping people, or that people can change in general, the point of the prisoners was just like any non-Ripley character in any Alien movie, to die, so that Ripleys survival counts for more. If your names not Ripley, your cannon fodder, whether you survive or not, Ripley is the constant - you think that if they made an Aliens4, Winona Ryder would be playing the part of her semi-adopted robot daughter?, you think she'd be hanging out with Ron Perlman?, making wise-cracks over breakfast about her acid blood and questionable genetic makeup? You shouldn't get so attached to disposable commodities - but in any case, most people can probably tell you their favorite Aliens marine, but then ask them who their favorite rapist was from Alien3.

Let's be honest though, Ridley Scott took a huge steaming dump on the whole Aliens and vs Predator franchise with Permetheus. God, I hope he doesn't do the same to Bladerunner.

 

[LordMonty]

I like the aliens trilogy its just people had a hard time to get along with a serise that went from horror to action and back to horror. I like them all as i do with the three predator films - not the AVP films they were pretty rubbish and retarded but otherwise agree and good going Jim nice to get your film opinion out through this show

 

[Tumedus]

To start, like the new show. Agree with whats already been posted that the whistling music in the background was a bit annoying, but it sounds like you are going to fix that. Looking forward to more as you bring up some interesting points. So with that taken care of, my retort.

The issues with the opening scene have already been covered so I will be brief, drowing in a tube isn't a peaceful death. Plus, the issue for me isn't so much that Hicks and Newt died, but that they were sort of just removed off screen. I realize getting actors back can be an issue, but that was sort of a big middle finger to the ending of Aliens. Getting the egg on the ship was beyond contrived as well as having her go off course yet arrive somewhere "safely" yet again.

Now, let's talk characterization. Yes Charle Dance's character was given a real arc, thats great, but that was about it. Dillon's character was pretty much the same from start to finish and, to me, not particularly interesting even though they were trying to bring up some deeper duality stuff. The rest of the cast may as well have been CGI, animatronics, or muppets for all they mattered to me. Whats even worse is that they looked so similarly that they were all but indistinguishable. Nothing more than fodder.

Compare that to the first two movies, where, as much as they may not have had the depth that Dance was given, I knew who every character was and to this day can name every crew member and every solider in those two movies. Each of those characters was more of a person with less screen time and development than nearly everyone in 3.

Now you can talk beatiful sets, I will point out that the cinemetography, lighting and sound in part 1 blew away 3. Watch the scene where Parker and Lambert get it and tell me there is any scene in part 3 with near that tension. I will give full props to the scene w/ Riply and the alien in her face, I think everyone recognizes that, but its not much more than a great still. Never once do I get moved in that movie like I do getting the first view of the eggs, or seeing Dallas swing the flame thrower back and forth in the vent shaft.

As for Aliens, its more action than thriller and that is where it shines. The pacing is spot on. It is textbook roller coaster. (On a side note, if you are going to include removed footage, the automated guns scene from Aliens director's cut is phenomenal and its too bad it was left out). Part 3 starts slow, stays slow, and simply never gets your heart pounding. Even the final "battle" goes on way too long and doesn't really feel like much is really happening. I mean its seriously like 20 minutes of monster-cam running down tunnels with the same door closing repeatedly and a couple more nameless dudes getting killed.

And, while it may not be the mark of a great movie, how many quotes have been taken from Aliens? Can you think of a single thing from part 3, the dying on your knees speech maybe, that has been quoted even half as much as the stuff from Aliens? Heck, I bet even the more mundane sutff like "I guess she don't like the cornbread either" has been quoted more.

Now, you are right that Alien3 really did try and take the story somewhere new and different. And kudos to it for that. As expressed it had a lasting impact on the lore. But that doesn't make the movie any good. It had interesting ideas, but were poorly implemented in a movie that was a real chore.

 

[Coreless]

Sorry Jim but Alien 3 is alright at best, but not even in the same realm as Aliens. Your whole argument about the dialogue and writing in Alien 3 being the best is just absolutely absurd, there is a reason that there have spawned countless quotes from Aliens and not from the third movie because it was overall completely dull.

I personally love all the Alien movies (not the AVP movies, hell no!) and consider them the best Scifi movies period, but to say that Alien 3 is the strongest is just nonsensical. If this is going to be the essence of this new series just shitting on other movies as your best defense for bad movies, then I have pretty much lost interest already.