MovieBob leaving The Escapist

[happyninja42]

I would suggest you go rewatch Bob's first video on The Escapist. Pay attention to his views on Meagan Fox and Devin Aoki.

God I hate defending Bob in anyway shape or form but isn't he allowed to grow as a person in what is it? 6 years whilst not quite that time I know if people dragged up ridiculous shit I said 13-14 years aggo on the internet I call myself some improper names!

He did it very recently with Scarlett Johansson. The problem is not so much that Bob objectified those women in such a crass way. It's that he seemingly champions gender equality while drooling over pictures of nearly nude photos of actresses. It's pretty tacky. This is a guy presenting himself as a moral authority. He needs to be called out on his bullshit and account for it.

I would agree with this statement, if it wasn't for the fact that women do it too. Both sexes talk about equality, and then openly describe the celebrities they find sexually attractive. There's nothing wrong with commenting on how an actor or actress is really damn sexy, when they are made up to be really damn sexy. The problem is if that is the only trait they present in the movie, then there's not much else to say. And sadly in a lot of movies, the female characters are written to be mostly eye candy, and that's it. And no matter how good the actress is, if they don't have anything to work with in the script, they don't have anything to improve on. It is perfectly fine for someone to talk about wanting to have more female characters in cinema, doing more significant parts, and also saying that you find them really fucking hot. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

 

[Ralancian]

I would suggest you go rewatch Bob's first video on The Escapist. Pay attention to his views on Meagan Fox and Devin Aoki.

God I hate defending Bob in anyway shape or form but isn't he allowed to grow as a person in what is it? 6 years whilst not quite that time I know if people dragged up ridiculous shit I said 13-14 years aggo on the internet I call myself some improper names!

He did it very recently with Scarlett Johansson. The problem is not so much that Bob objectified those women in such a crass way. It's that he seemingly champions gender equality while drooling over pictures of nearly nude photos of actresses. It's pretty tacky. This is a guy presenting himself as a moral authority. He needs to be called out on his bullshit and account for it.

Oh I totally agree agree just pointing out it's unfair on the guy to bring up something he did ages ago. He by all accounts has said deplorable things in recent events and those are what he should be held accountable for. It's too east to bat away criticism whith "Christ, I said like 6 years ago I'm a different person now."

 

[Ralancian]

I would agree with this statement, if it wasn't for the fact that women do it too. Both sexes talk about equality, and then openly describe the celebrities they find sexually attractive. There's nothing wrong with commenting on how an actor or actress is really damn sexy, when they are made up to be really damn sexy. The problem is if that is the only trait they present in the movie, then there's not much else to say. And sadly in a lot of movies, the female characters are written to be mostly eye candy, and that's it. And no matter how good the actress is, if they don't have anything to work with in the script, they don't have anything to improve on. It is perfectly fine for someone to talk about wanting to have more female characters in cinema, doing more significant parts, and also saying that you find them really fucking hot. Those two things are not mutually exclusive.

I disagree there is a problem with it but not in the way you describe. It's okay to be anti-misogynist and find women sexy (I certainly fit under that category). It is a problem when you are on 'crusade' against misogyny and say crass stuff objectifying women. Sounds odd I know but it's part of being in the limelight if you want to work hard at doing something for the greater good you have to always show yourself to living by those standards. Otherwise your just giving people a stick to beat you with as you appear to hypocritical...as opposed to just human.

 

[vagabondwillsmile]

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Stopped reading after you still think the troubles that the black community face are in some way equal to the plight of white straight male gamers. I understand you're using them as an example of two communities facing sweeping generalizations but it's a bad one. Change it and I may take you seriously

I think you should finish reading his post before you ask him to change it to suit your capricious demands for what is acceptable. For the record, what comparisons are not forbidden in your book? How best can we express ourselves to you? Or will you continue to be wilfully combative with people trying to engage you in discussion.

I did eventually read the rest as I read your own post. I am getting a better understanding of why you're all so upset over the issue but I can't help but cringe when GGers compare their issues to that of the black community. They're not in any way similar or even in the same ballpark. I'm not sure what else you can use but don't compare yourselves to minorities that suffer true discrimination.

Ok - I'm going assume you genuinely care and are entirely earnest. Not once did Vigormortis ever say that the PLIGHT of the two groups were EQUAL. He only demonstrated that two GENERALISATIONS are ANALOGOUS in the flaw of their logic and identically structured conceit. These are completely different concepts. However, you are focusing on the former as though that is what Vigormortis said. It simply isn't the case.

Look, no one with a shred of sanity could ever claim a dispute over a luxury passtime with expensive luxury toys is in any way shape or form comparable to centuries of slavery, murder, rape and the worst of human abuses, or the continued discrimination and hate. That would be ludicrous. That is not what Vigormortis did.

Your passion is admirable. Your willingness to stand in defense of a marginalized community is commendable. But in this particular instance that passion is possibly overshadowing what Vigormotis' argument actually is.

To illustrate - please don't take this as condescending as that is not my intent - these are some examples of ANALOGOUS comparisons of identical structure with the same logical flaw. Nothing is shown or implied to be equal in any way. That isn't what analogous in context means::

All gamers are rapists. All GG'ers are rapists. All prisoners are rapists. All comic book readers are rapists. All nerds are rapists. You can take out the rapist part if you want and make other untruthful generalizations. All anime fans are lonely shut-ins. All COD players are girlfriend beating dudebros. All Nintendo gamers are children.

See, no example has any element of being equal to any other example. Only analagous. Take group x and apply sweeping untrue generalization y.

If anything Vigormortis' comparison was intended to illustrate the absudity of making generalizations and indicate the reaction people would have to one exeptionally abhorrent generaliztion.

I sincerely hope that this clears up the missunderstanding.

 

[Mythandrevelry]

I've heard a lot of people say "Now that X is leaving I have no reason to come to the escapist", never thought it'd be me. And it won't! At least not until Yahtzee gets the boot. And even then I'll probably come out of pure habit and for general gaming news. The only videos I watch at this point are ben and bob's. So weird to have lost all the shows I did come here for. What is it about this place that drives everyone away? Gonna miss ya bob, and by that I mean I'll probably have a hard time tracking you down but when I do we'll be back in full swing.

See, I'm in the camp where - if the Escapist hadn't won me back with how it had handled certain hot button issues - Bob leaving would bring me back. And it's not because I hate his content. In fact, MovieBob used to be a big draw for me because he was and intelligent man who managed to do smart, entertaining videos.

The first problem I ran into with him was when he directly insulted the audience of certain movies because movies he liked bombed. A prime example would be The Expendables profiting within the same time frame Scott Pilgrim tanked. I don't necessarily disagree with his criticism of The Expendables, but insulting the audience is completely uncalled for, especially since intelligent people are entirely capable of enjoying schlock, and The Expendables was schlock that was made to be (at least mildly) entertaining to as large a number of people as possible, and although I didn't go to see either movie while they were in theaters, I'd take The Expendables over Scott Pilgrim any day. I haven't read the graphic novels the movie was based on, but I feel the movie was a brightly colored mess with uninteresting and largely unlikable characters. It seems like a case where the A-to-B structure of the plot remained intact but cramming it into a movie (and casting Micheal Cera - a man with no charisma whatsoever - as someone who is supposed to be a loveable douchebag) ripped the heart out of the characters and the world they inhabited.

There's two problems with that:

1. If Bob is willing to insult people like me or hold people like me in lower regard because of different tastes and opinions, he's a hypocrite who is no better than the people he so often criticizes for reacting too harshly to those with dissenting views and criticisms of other media.

2. This extended far beyond just movies and games to politics and other arenas. I originally came to the Escapist for the kind of humor and thoughtful commentary provided by Yahtzee, Extra Credits, and Shamus Young, and I got sick and tired of being put in this separate category of "lesser human being" by Moviebob whenever he held a strong stance about something that contradicted my own. Yes, he and I have never personally interacted, but if someone is going to make a broad statement about groups which I belong to which is as inflammatory as it is simplified or misinformed, I'm going to take it personally and I'm going to hold that person's analytical abilities (as well as the resultant content) in lower regard.

That Bob has strong feelings on a wide range of topics that are often in direct opposition to my own views doesn't bother me in the least. The fact that he's incapable of handling complex issues like an adult does, and I decided around two years ago that I wouldn't give pageviews or ad revenue to websites in order to talk down to, insult, and browbeat their audience.

By no means am I rejoicing that Bob isn't on this site anymore. All I'd really ask of him is to tone it down a bit and stop making everyone he disagrees with into strawmen representative of what he deems an inferior world, especially since it's hardly as simple as "I think Anita is making spurious arguments in this video..."="I'm an MRA traditionalist that wants women to go back to the kitchen and never play, make, or even talk about video games!" Real people are a lot more complicated than that, and I've never seen him approach these big topics with any kind of nuance. If he at least made an effort then I'd be happy to watch his videos and read his columns. As it is, I've made an effort to avoid him ever since he changed the format of his Game Overthinker series, and that's not going to change unless he starts acting like an adult.

So all in all, I support the Escapist's decision, and I think that over the long haul this is a good choice because people like Bob are poisonous to a brand like this. I can't speak for everyone who has stopped coming here in the last year or two, but I'm one person who is back on board and who 100% supports this site now that it seems to be going back to what it was when I came here on a near daily basis.

 

[OmegaDestroyer]

Oh wow. I had not heard that he left the Escapist. Despite not always agreeing with him, I'll miss his content, especially Shlocktober.

And with that, I guess I don't really have much reason to come to the Escapist anymore.

 

[Vigormortis]

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Sigh. For the umpteenth time: I am not a GamerGate supporter. I do not associate with the movement in any way, shape, or form. I do not claim to speak for GGers, in part or in whole. I wish you'd stop calling me a GGer when speaking to other posters. Please stop lying.

And as for my analogy, how about this: Let's say Bob came out and said, "All movie-goers are subhuman shits!" Would you still be confused why someone, namely a movie-goer, might take offense to his comment?

If not, I don't know what else to say, really. I don't know why you're not getting it, but you really aren't getting it. I don't know if this is due to some willful dishonesty on your part or if it's because you genuinely do not understand the difference between an analogy and a comparison. Either way, I'm done. I have no interest in having a discussion with someone who feigns curiosity and then ignores the replies.[footnote]Especially if that person thinks rational thinking is a bad thing.[/footnote] Or, at worst, twists them into something they aren't so you can embolden or rationalize your original position.

Good day to you.

 

[KazeAizen]

Been seeing on places like Reddit that a lot of people have whitelisted the Escapist as a result of his departure. So hopefully more ad revenue flowing in.

Because those are really the kinds of people I want frequenting a site.

 

[Slayer4472]

Been seeing on places like Reddit that a lot of people have whitelisted the Escapist as a result of his departure. So hopefully more ad revenue flowing in.

Because those are really the kinds of people I want frequenting a site.

You seem to have overestimated the value of your opinion. Regardless of whether or not you consider those people to be undesirables, they are still paying customers, and the Escapist would be remiss to ignore them just because you won't deign to share the same electrons as them.

 

[KazeAizen]

Been seeing on places like Reddit that a lot of people have whitelisted the Escapist as a result of his departure. So hopefully more ad revenue flowing in.

Because those are really the kinds of people I want frequenting a site.

You seem to have overestimated the value of your opinion. Regardless of whether or not you consider those people to be undesirables, they are still paying customers, and the Escapist would be remiss to ignore them just because you won't deign to share the same electrons as them.

Yeah their money is as green as my money or whatever. There is also something called standards. Hypothetically if I was running the site and I was blacklisted by a radical subset that I consider to be undesirable company I'd try my absolute hardest to make sure I stay on their blacklist because I wouldn't want people like them messing with or mingling with the good customer base I had acquired. Reputation is also a pretty big deal.

 

[wulf3n]

a radical subset that I consider to be undesirable

I love it how you immediately assume that people, who all we really know about is that they disagree with a content creator and so choose to avoid the site they are associated with (which is actually the prevailing opinon here on the escapist re: Mozilla / Ender's Game), are automatically radical and undesirable.

 

[KazeAizen]

a radical subset that I consider to be undesirable

I love it how you immediately assume that people, who all we really know about is that they disagree with a content creator and so choose to avoid the site they are associated with (which is actually the prevailing opinon here on the escapist re: Mozilla / Ender's Game), are automatically radical and undesirable.

Yeah that's a big assumption. Fine. Link me those people then so I can see who they are. If they are who I think they are then yeah I'd want to stay on that particular blacklist.

 

[Slayer4472]

Been seeing on places like Reddit that a lot of people have whitelisted the Escapist as a result of his departure. So hopefully more ad revenue flowing in.

Because those are really the kinds of people I want frequenting a site.

You seem to have overestimated the value of your opinion. Regardless of whether or not you consider those people to be undesirables, they are still paying customers, and the Escapist would be remiss to ignore them just because you won't deign to share the same electrons as them.

Yeah their money is as green as my money or whatever. There is also something called standards. Hypothetically if I was running the site and I was blacklisted by a radical subset that I consider to be undesirable company I'd try my absolute hardest to make sure I stay on their blacklist because I wouldn't want people like them messing with or mingling with the good customer base I had acquired. Reputation is also a pretty big deal.

Eh... I don't think "radical subset" is terribly accurate- I know I've been pussyfooting around the Escapist trying not to click on MovieBob content for nearly as long as I've had this account. The fact of the matter is that MovieBob has been behaving very poorly for a very long time, and I don't blame anyone for attempting to avoid giving him money.

 

[Ralancian]

a radical subset that I consider to be undesirable

I love it how you immediately assume that people, who all we really know about is that they disagree with a content creator and so choose to avoid the site they are associated with (which is actually the prevailing opinon here on the escapist re: Mozilla / Ender's Game), are automatically radical and undesirable.

Yeah that's a big assumption. Fine. Link me those people then so I can see who they are. If they are who I think they are then yeah I'd want to stay on that particular blacklist.

Sorry your wrong you can't go blanketing and entire group and user base just because some of the people are scum of the Earth. It's those kind of sweeping statements that this entire mess has a problem with...oon both bloody sides!

 

[KazeAizen]

Sorry your wrong you can't go blanketing and entire group and user base just because some of the people are scum of the Earth. It's those kind of sweeping statements that this entire mess has a problem with...oon both bloody sides!

And all people do is yell at the teacher for punishing them all instead of say bringing the rest of the classroom in line. That is the bigger problem. That group. Yes that group clad in pink and green. Blanketing that entire group is about the only thing that can be done. If I'm going to be seeing a lot more pink and green avatars here there is only one safe place for me here. Heck they are the only reason I've even bothered staying on this site period.

Eh... I don't think "radical subset" is terribly accurate- I know I've been pussyfooting around the Escapist trying not to click on MovieBob content for nearly as long as I've had this account. The fact of the matter is that MovieBob has been behaving very poorly for a very long time, and I don't blame anyone for attempting to avoid giving him money.

You mean his Twitter feed right? Where he's about as blunt as a baseball bat to the face. You ever think about listening to understand rather than listen to argue? Believe me I've actually tried that and I still couldn't get on board whatsoever with this subset we are oh so carefully tiptoeing around.

 

[Ralancian]

Sorry your wrong you can't go blanketing and entire group and user base just because some of the people are scum of the Earth. It's those kind of sweeping statements that this entire mess has a problem with...oon both bloody sides!

And all people do is yell at the teacher for punishing them all instead of say bringing the rest of the classroom in line. That is the bigger problem. That group. Yes that group clad in pink and green. Blanketing that entire group is about the only thing that can be done. If I'm going to be seeing a lot more pink and green avatars here there is only one safe place for me here. Heck they are the only reason I've even bothered staying on this site period.

ugh you realise your part of the problem right? Both sides have their more moderate people, people who want to talk about the issues and come a consensus.

History shows that if you just ignore an entire group and try marginalise them they just become more radical.

I don't want people in the active discourse who don't want to talk and act holier than thou. All they do is poison the well and we're high deep in shit.l already.

 

[Dr Lizzardo]

Well he lost me with the Tusk review

How can you do a Review of a movie without seeing the movie.

yet another one of his reviews of late he said he didn't watch the whole movie and that he may of drooped off when watching it.

well if that be the case don't review it, just say that and jam in a heap of trailers with it and let it be as he has done a few time of late.

If you haven't bothered to watch something from start to finish it do a half arsed review it.

just keep YAHTZEE happy or that will be it for me.

 

[Slayer4472]

Eh... I don't think "radical subset" is terribly accurate-I know I've been pussyfooting around the Escapist trying not to click on MovieBob content for nearly as long as I've had this account. The fact of the matter is that MovieBob has been behaving very poorly for a very long time, and I don't blame anyone for attempting to avoid giving him money.

You mean his Twitter feed right? Where he's about as blunt as a baseball bat to the face. You ever think about listening to understand rather than listen to argue? Believe me I've actually tried that and I still couldn't get on board whatsoever with this subset we are oh so carefully tiptoeing around.

Please excuse me, but I absolutely cannot understand what you're trying to say. Are you disputing that MovieBob has been acting unprofessionally, or that individuals are unjustified in avoiding his content?

EDIT: It's green and purple, not pink and green.

 

[Sleepy Sol]

a radical subset that I consider to be undesirable

I love it how you immediately assume that people, who all we really know about is that they disagree with a content creator and so choose to avoid the site they are associated with (which is actually the prevailing opinon here on the escapist re: Mozilla / Ender's Game), are automatically radical and undesirable.

Yeah that's a big assumption. Fine. Link me those people then so I can see who they are. If they are who I think they are then yeah I'd want to stay on that particular blacklist.

You're giving him an impossible task.

I agree with him. I don't believe most people are so radical to immediately shut off discussion like this, or close off a group of people as "undesirable." On either side of this mess. Do I just have too much faith in people?

You are dehumanizing people for a cause they believe in (though I know you don't see it as a cause worth supporting in any capacity, but rather a movement solely based around harassing women; I'm sorry, but I have to disagree). Stupid or ineffective as you might think their convictions, they're still human.

I don't want to make you angry, or take away what you feel is a safe place. But I'm trying to relate my own experiences to you. Becoming this upset helps no one.

 

[Mythandrevelry]

And all people do is yell at the teacher for punishing them all instead of say bringing the rest of the classroom in line. That is the bigger problem. That group. Yes that group clad in pink and green. Blanketing that entire group is about the only thing that can be done. If I'm going to be seeing a lot more pink and green avatars here there is only one safe place for me here. Heck they are the only reason I've even bothered staying on this site period.

ugh you realise your part of the problem right? Both sides have their more moderate people, people who want to talk about the issues and come a consensus.

History shows that if you just ignore an entire group and try marginalise them they just become more radical.

I don't want people in the active discourse who don't want to talk and act holier than thou. All they do is poison the well and we're high deep in shit.l already.[/quote]

Well, and when we're talking about GG we're talking about a hashtag primarily, and you can't do anything except voice disapproval when someone tweets something incendiary using the tag.

I don't think blanket statements are always out of line. It depends on how large the group is, what its stated ideals are, and in the case of a leaderless consumer revolt, what happens within the spaces where things are organized.

For the most part stuff that's truly beyond the pale is taken care of when its posted on sites like 8chan and Reddit. We're talking dox information, encouragement to harass, etc.

You do see some unpopular opinions and inflammatory posts on places outside of Twitter. Overall this is a strength regardless of how it appears at first glance. Those supporting GG would be absolute hypocrites if they silenced others merely for doing and saying things they dislike, and so people are mostly allowed to say what they want. I've seen some genuine ugliness, but I've also seen people object to it, discuss it, argue with it, etc.

Politically speaking most of the people who support GG aren't that far removed from the writers on games sites who push their politics in their articles. The main point of contention was disagreement over how messages were being spread and how dissent was being silenced. Just as an example, I'd say roughly half the people I've spoken to within GG identify as feminists. There's a huge amount of diversity.

The absurdity here is in thinking of online spaces as if they were physical spaces where structures exist that make it possible to actually set limits on what happens. Online anyone can get involved in something even if they're not welcome into certain communities. If I wanted to, I'm pretty sure I could make a case for fans of the Escapist being a hategroup, or fans of other websites. Not only are you always going to have undesirables in your ranks, you're also going to have third party muckrakers who want nothing more than to burn it all down. (As an example, /baphomet/ - which isn't related to GG - is behind much the harassment that's been blamed on GG as a whole) That's why in these cases you have no other choice, really, than to look for representative samples and to treat individuals as individuals. The only thing GG as a whole can be said to be responsible for is email campaigns and putting pressure on outlets to be more forthcoming with details that would indicate conflicts of interest. (And regarding harassment, people on both sides have been doxed, swatted, etc. We usually don't find out who's responsible, and as far as I'm aware the sources of specific instances has never been publically verified, so my default assumption is that this stuff is the result of opportunistic third parties and are not the actions of GG or the other side.)

So the long and short of it is that there's definitely a discussion to be had. The reason the Escapist is whitelisted is because we've been able to do that here. If this is how the whole thing had been handled it wouldn't have happened in the first place.

And for my part, I'm back and thinking of signing up for the Publisher's Club. I'm certainly not a muckraker. I don't hate women (in fact I wish more women were into the hobby) and I prefer to approach heated topics in a calm and reasoned manner. My boycott of this site ended as soon as the Escapist made it clear that it wouldn't censor people, and with its current push to refocus on what I love about the hobby I'm going to be coming here regularly. I don't have to agree with everyone here all the time to enjoy myself, nor do I need to agree with everything that's posted on this site in order to support it with ad revenue or money from my own pocket. All I ask - and this is true of most people I find - is that I'm not demonized or shut out simply because I disagree with something.