Musical Ignorance

[SystemUpdate]

You're right, its all about searching for the obscure overlooked music that is good, but Justin Beiber should be killed for the sake of humanity.

 

[someonehairy-ish]

Well since my iPod broke and I've been saving up for driving lessons, I have to listen to that crap every single day for two fucking hours on the bus ride to/from college. I feel like I have an obligation to demote pretty much all mainstream pop, R&B and rap because I honestly don't think these 'artists' should earn a single penny.

That said, there is not a single genre of music where I do not have ANY songs I like. I've heard rap that I've found to have intelligent lyrics. I've heard stuff that would go under pop which I still wouldn't listen to but at least has some kind of originality or artistic merit.

Cookie Cutter Pop Punk bands can pretty much go and die though. Tis the one thing I will say. When somebody says they like metal and I try to start a conversation about Slayer or Gojira or whatever and then they say actually, its more like All Time Low, a bit of me dies inside.

 

[Nickolai77]

Well, as the first poster said i'll like rap if i listen to a rap song that i like.

In all honesty, there probably is a few rap songs out there that i would like, but tbh most rap songs i do not like, so from that basis i make the generalisation that i don't like rap (or pop or hip-hop etc)

 

[ediblemitten]

Listen to whatever the hell you want. For me, I just listen to whatever sounds good to me, and genre is secondary. The idiots on YouTube spouting off on 'genre wars' and 'metal vs. the world' are complete fools. Music is just music.

 

[Hristo Tzonkov]

Well you can't deny that the various ammounts of -core genres are actually crappy despite having a few good bands.And funnily those same bands lean more on other genres instead of their -core genre.This includes gammacore and hard techno but it still appeals to candy ravers and it's pretty obscure not a lot in your face.

What annoys me about popular mainstream pop singers is that they also try to enforce a certain lifestyle.Whatever you might say about Gaga she does fight for equality and a person being himself.She's also insane and starred in a Lonely Island song.She wins a lot of points here.
Whereas we have Bieber who has crappy predictable pop songs that seem to enforce being a cool kid,having an iphone and a crappy hairdo.And babies.He's also very much in your face and however you might try to ignore it,it's still blatantly annoying to the point you start hating it(not hating on it,but there's petty people).

 

[sergnb]

I will stop saying 'I don't like rap' when I hear rap I like.

I hear what you're saying. But I don't think I throw the words hate around that much.

Travel in time to the 80's and early 90's.
Listen to the current rap movement.
?????
PROFIT!

I had to live it once, I have no desire to live it again. If anyone wants to send me a link to some 'great rap' I'd listen to it. But if you want to give me shit if I don't like it, don't waste my time please.

Well how am I supposed to know what you don't like?

Some examples of rap I consider good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-afioLMcEc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37wSwAJ98Zk&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrXDolxczmw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWUMSPekHBE

I could just drop the whole San Andreas soundtrack here as a good example. I personally enjoy rap that is mixed with other styles like funky, because it has more "soul" if you know what I mean.

Also don't forget America isn't the only place in the world where rap is being produced. France has a shiiitload of good rappers aswell as some other european countries like Spain

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gH9iBucSXKg&feature=related

 

[arrjay93]

my Problem with justin bieber is that i don't think he makes music because he likes making music, he does it to make money. Yes every musician has bills to pay but when somebody is obviously more interested in making money then making art or entertaining me it pisses me off.

I reckon he's probably having a great time. He's not paid in hugs or cuddly feelings, which I assume would be all an artist who didn't care about money would charge for their work, but I've never had the impression that he doesn't care about what he's doing.

 

[freakonaleash]

A couple of points:

1) I'm glad that Lady Gaga's charade doesn't piss only me off. However, I will say that her songs are lazily written (though that's just my opinion).
2) Justin Bieber is not harming the music industry financially, but he's harming its integrity (which in this day and age is pretty hard to do).

I don't know man...Alejandro is pretty complicated for a pop song.

 

[SageRuffin]

I will stop saying 'I don't like rap' when I hear rap I like.

I hear what you're saying. But I don't think I throw the words hate around that much.

Exactly. Not only that, but according to the definition of music from my music theory teacher, rap isn't music at all. In the sense that it's more like a poem with some kind of beat in the background. Except without the "poem" part, and just words as far as I've heard. Not trying to be a stick in the mud, but I have to say I agree with him. Someone wants to change my mind, show me a rap song that actually brings any sort of emotion to the table.

Hark! A rap song with some emotion to it, you say? Try these:

Spoiler: Thieves in the Night (Black Star)

Spoiler: Song About a Friend (Atmosphere)

Spoiler: Celestial Clockwork (Illogic)

Want something a bit more geek-friendly?

Spoiler: A song about Aqua Teen Hunger Force

Spoiler: A song about the Special Stage from Sonic the Hedgehog 2

Spoiler: A song about Zork

There you go. Have fun... or don't. I'm certainly not gonna force anything.

 

[face_head_mouth]

It isn't. Real music is made by composers who actually spend years of their lives studying music itself at an Academy and mastering the instruments required to reproduce the sound of perfection along with criativity.

Remember the time people actually spent months perfecting only the lyrics for their songs, and not just a couple hours?

I really doubt you do because you probably weren't even born yet.

Lolwut

So people who are self-taught, or who play by ear, or who have their own musical language, or who couldn't get Mommy or Daddy to spring for Berkley or Julliard can't make 'real' music with 'criativity'?

I'll tell them the next time I see them!

my Problem with justin bieber is that i don't think he makes music because he likes making music, he does it to make money. Yes every musician has bills to pay but when somebody is obviously more interested in making money then making art or entertaining me it pisses me off.

I reckon he's probably having a great time. He's not paid in hugs or cuddly feelings, which I assume would be all an artist who didn't care about money would charge for their work, but I've never had the impression that he doesn't care about what he's doing.

Two things:
1. How many of us wouldn't love to perform in front of people doing something we enjoy? I don't like Justin Bieber's music very much, but I hardly begrudge him his success. He's not a cancer on the music industry: he's the latest version of the 'young pop star' role that has been around forever. Someone's got to fill the role. I know the music industry is in shambles now, so maybe just call him what he is: an entertainer, one who seems to (for better or worse) make a lot of people happy.

2. It's irrelevant whether you do your art for the money or the love of it, provided that it's good. I love the idea of people doing art or music for it's own sake, but that's a fairly new idea. Most of the great still-existing works of art and pieces of music were done for money, and almost all of it was commissioned by the Church and the nobility. Artisans and composers were supporting themselves and their families and they made great works in spite of the fact that what they were doing was their livelihood, not for their own pleasure.

 

[Unesh52]

I hate country music. I dislike twang guitar and country accents in general -- they just don't sound good. TF, I hate damn near every country song, because without at least one of those things, the song could hardly be called a country tune, wouldn't you say? In other words, I hate the elements inherent in the genre, so I hate the genre. Furthermore, I find very little to relate to thematically in country music. I hold no pretensions of stereotypical masculinity, I'm not much of a patriot, I've never been to jail, or drunk, and I've only fired a gun a handful of times. Lastly, I have a prejudice against the genre, since I associate it with people, places, and times that I find uncomfortable and depressing, if not just offensive.

That being said, I get where the OP's coming from. An intellectually responsible, culturally well-rounded individual should be able to appreciate art for what it is, even if it's not their cup of tea. It was just fun to pick apart why exactly I hated country so much.

 

[Prophetic Heresy]

*snip*

Those were all excellent choices, although I'll admit I really hate nerd rap with MF DOOM being my only exception. If only The Escapist allowed dump threads we could just freely share all our favorites.

 

[Guitarmasterx7]

Have you ever considered that sometimes people dislike genres at least partially because of the lack of talent involved? I mean I'll admit there are probably exceptions (though I've never experienced any firsthand, so that's more obligatory than genuine) but at the end of the day, regardless of personal opinion, almost anyone can do this.

Really?
OK then, make a song that will make millions of people run to the dancefloor whenever it plays.
I dare you. After all, almost anyone can do that.
Or are you one of the few who can't?

That's all marketing. I'm saying that anyone can preform this song, or create something of similar complexity and composure.

 

[Unesh52]

Real music is made by composers who actually spend years of their lives studying music itself at an Academy and mastering the instruments required to reproduce the sound of perfection...

"What? Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of how awesome I am."

 

[klaynexas3]

i'll say a genre is crap, but that's because i tend to make my own genre's. for instance, i find that all pop songs are dull unimaginative lyrics with the same quality music, and a catching chorus. if it has some imagination to it in any way, i don't qualify it as pop. reason why i decided to call the genre with unimaginative music in it is cause most of what normal people call pop fits into this category. i'm going to sound like a flamer, but if music really just adds nothing to the musical process, there's no point to it. at all. mind numbing entertainment is fine once in a while, but we shouldn't base the majority of what our music industry is going to promote. that tends to piss me off. i usually feel like "it's music, it's all about taste man" towards music, but i've grown to get pissed off at mindless music or sellouts. i view music as a way of expression, but the thing is, most music that is popular today is equivalent to friday. i'm not even joking, when i first heard it i just thought it was another crappy song that hannah montana wrote or someone like that. it pisses me off that if this is what's happening to music that the world is going to be filled with morons.

 

[funguy2121]

(1)Just as a heads up, I'm sure this doesn't apply to a majority of the Escapist users as us lot seem to be an intelligent and open-minded bunch. It's just an observation I've had on the way many people regard music.

(2)I'm sick of people jumping to massive conclusions and disregarding entire genres of music simply because they're heard a few songs they dislike or (3)it is disliked by the media. (4)Music like rap and pop often gets bad-mouthed for no good reasons; yes, there is a tonne of bad rap and pop, just like there is a tonne of bad metal and jazz and electronia. It's not like I have a problem with people not liking a certain type of music - but you should still have respect for the genre and artist (unless they really are a piece of talentless crap - Brokencyde, for instance).

I don't listen or really like Lady Gaga, but she has a good voice and well-written/well-produced pop songs, even if her pompous diva persona grates on me. She's not on my iPod, just like Metallica aren't and neither is Tinie Tempah - but I do respect them because I understand they are musically gifted and please their intended audience. Just because I don't like their music doesn't mean I think they're 'bad'.

(5) Heck, even Justin Bieber takes too much flak. He sings bland and uninteresting pop, yes, but is it harming you? Or even the music industry in general? No.

So, please stop writing off types of music just because of its media image or certain bad artists.
Sorry for the rant.

I'm confused and require clarity. Sorry, bad English. I am confused, and I require clarity. I'll just do this by the numbers with my reactions and questions.

(1) I'm glad you took the time to humbly present your opinions as just that and nothing more - I'd like to see more of this on The Escapist.

(2) Hell, yeah - wait, did you say "pop?" Are we talking Apples in Stereo/Rilo Kiley pop or are we talking Rebecca Black/Usher pop?

(3) There is not a style of music "disliked" by the media.

(4) Let's brake this down separately by genre, because I have observed quite a few reasons to badmouth both. Pop, by which I mean Lady Gaga and her-her-her-her-her poker face and Justin Bieber, has done a tremendous amount of work inviting scorn. GaGa's music might not be as wholly unoriginal as Britney Spears, but it still doesn't sound terribly inspired to me. It sounds just like all of the other post-techno club-light diva stuff out there. It actually is unique for commercial pop in the lyrics category. She likes to sing about her bisexuality, and not always in a self-objectifying "hey boys, look at me kissing a girl!" way. Good for her. That's really about the only positive thing I can say about her. She dresses up in crazy extreme outfits. So does Karen O of the Yeah Yeah Yeahs, so does Bjork, and so did Kiss. Hell, G.G. Allen used to end his sets covered in blood and feces. But none of the above artists (well, except for Kiss) made derivative, simulacric music the way that GaGa does, so I have to say I'm not impressed by the meat dress and the blood outfit and the 10-feet-tall shoulder pads, because the music doesn't back it up. Bieber is much, much worse. There's really no need to go into his music because you already know what I'm going to say about that uninspired, prefab mess. Instead, let's talk about his marketing of sexuality to underaged girls. Unlike his intellectual/artistic forebearers NSync, Bieber actually is underaged himself. But, just like them, and like The New Kids on the Block and all prefab boy-band crap that markets sexuality to children, it's utter crap. Hell, it's crap by design. The music (or what passes for music) is secondary, it's just another component. It's actually less important than all of those retarded feigned looks he gives to the camera before doing some akward face twitch that's supposed to be sexy. This phenomenon and all of its practitioners have earned our scorn, and I for one don't feel the slightest bit bad about giving it to them. I do love Quasi, though.

Rap - or rather, what passes for commercial hip-hop today, isn't any more interesting than Bieber. None of the big-name rappers topping the charts are actual gangsters, like (fewer than would admit) their 90's counterparts were. At least Kanye's crazy ass admits he's a college dropout and not a former crack dealer. Precious few of the rappers actually rap. What Li'l Wayne does, I can do, which is the perfect litmus test for is this rapping/singing? Answer: no. Quite a few of these "artists" have to slow down their voices in order to sound tough, which is particularly laughable considering that the entire point of the song, other than of course how many toilets they have, is how tough/rich/much of a pimp they are. Rap lyrics are like the boasting of a 12-year-old school boy; I don't believe that one of these dumbfucks has the first clue how to please a woman. And what's really so sad about this is that hip-hop has continued to grow as a genre, thanks to MC's like Mos Def, The Roots (Jimmy Fallon-what the fuck?) and Dead Prez. Too bad none of them play on the radio, since they don't sing about being a hard nigga and fuckin' up a ***** when she don't bring home the dough. See, the greatest perpetrators of black stereotypes are sorry excuses for a black man such as Li'l Wayne.

(5) It's harming popular music.

Most people don't have much in the way of tastes; they watch whatever sitcoms or reality shows are popular and they listen to whatever comes on the top 40 stations where they live. Top 40 music is bland, corporate and often outright terrible, I'd say 95% and 85% of the time respectively. You shouldn't expect such "normal" people to understand your tastes, not because you're inherently better than them in any way, but because commodified shit doesn't appeal to you. It doesn't appeal to me, either.

Go team Venture!

 

[Hyper-space]

2) Justin Bieber is not harming the music industry financially, but he's harming its integrity (which in this day and age is pretty hard to do).

How the fuck is he harming the integrity of the industry? you know hes not the first young male singer who looks like a girl to reach these levels of stardom, right? hell i remember seeing a picture of some really famous (back then) singer that looked exactly like Justin Beiber.

Popular music has for the most part been terrible since forever, its just that most of it falls into the forgotten music section so the only music you hear from back in the days is the really, really good ones.

 

[Lionsfan]

I don't dismiss it because of what the media says, I dismiss it because I've actually listened to it. Mostly involuntarily, but I have, and I have yet to find one I can connect to emotionally. Now, I am nothing if not open minded, so I will listen to the songs the posters said are the exception, and judge for myself. But even if any of those particular songs are good, it still says something of rap goers with how often a car drives by me with crap pounding my ears into submission.

But what does it say about Heavy Metal Listener's when I'm trying to go for a run and they drive by me, blaring something I can't hear myself think and screaming incomprehensible stuff?

Basically, just because a genre has exceptions (as tends to be the case) doesn't mean I'm gonna get into that particular genre and wade through the crap to find the good stuff.

So what you're saying is that 90% of all music is crap? Or are you just talking about the Hip-Hop genre? I'm actually curious about this, I'm not trying to start a flamewar over your specific tastes

In all honestly, I stick with what I listen to because percentage wise, I know I'm going to find a song I like more often than not.

But don't you ever just want to venture out and try some new stuff?

2) Justin Bieber is not harming the music industry financially, but he's harming its integrity (which in this day and age is pretty hard to do).

I don't know about that, pop music has turned into throw away razers. You go on X factor or some place has talent (which is usually a joke) and watch as 3 people get record contracts (even though it should only be one) after releasing 5 or so songs maybe the odd album they get forgotton about just in time for the next X factor or some place has talent.

Then bands like take that claim to be breaking up for good, only to join up again once there vast riches dry up.

I think Mitch Benn says it best ....

I completely agree here.

On topic. I think some "music" isn't music 'cos it's not made by musical instruments but it is something like music. I am not saying it's bad or anthing, I like lady Gaga and Eminem but I wouldn't say it's music.

But by that logic then Choir singing isn't music. Cause if the voice is an instrument then so everyone is using an instrument.

Music doesn't have to be using guitars/drumbs/brass intruments. Music is technically an art form whose medium is sound. If

this is considered art then I think Eminem/Lady Gaga/anyone who doesn't necessarily use an intrument is considered music.

Rap - or rather, what passes for commercial hip-hop today, isn't any more interesting than Bieber. None of the big-name rappers topping the charts are actual gangsters, like (fewer than would admit) their 90's counterparts were. At least Kanye's crazy ass admits he's a college dropout and not a former crack dealer. Precious few of the rappers actually rap. What Li'l Wayne does, I can do, which is the perfect litmus test for is this rapping/singing? Answer: no. Quite a few of these "artists" have to slow down their voices in order to sound tough, which is particularly laughable considering that the entire point of the song, other than of course how many toilets they have, is how tough/rich/much of a pimp they are. Rap lyrics are like the boasting of a 12-year-old school boy; I don't believe that one of these dumbfucks has the first clue how to please a woman. And what's really so sad about this is that hip-hop has continued to grow as a genre, thanks to MC's like Mos Def, The Roots (Jimmy Fallon-what the fuck?) and Dead Prez. Too bad none of them play on the radio, since they don't sing about being a hard nigga and fuckin' up a ***** when she don't bring home the dough. See, the greatest perpetrators of black stereotypes are sorry excuses for a black man such as Li'l Wayne.

Quite a bit of this is kinda wrong

Rap - or rather, what passes for commercial hip-hop today, isn't any more interesting than Bieber. None of the big-name rappers topping the charts are actual gangsters, like (fewer than would admit) their 90's counterparts were.

Rap isn't about being gangsters. In fact being a gangster, getting the "bling life" was pretty much the worst era of Rap.

Hip Hop (which is more of a lifestyle than music) has 4 tenats: DJing, MCing, Break Dancing, and Grafiti. Rapping falls under MCing in case you were wondering. So "being a gangster" or "thug life" (to quote some stereotypes) isn't necessary for rapping. Look at the Beastie Boys, they were never gangbangers or thugs, yet they're some of the most influential Hip-Hop musicians of all time. Same with Run DMC. They weren't gangsta's or looking for bling, and they practically invented Rapping as a musical genre.

So this whole notion that rappers have to be thugs/gangsta's is a product solely of the late 80's and early 90's and entirely media driven. It was because groups like NWA, who had grown up as thugs and having hard life, began rapping as a way to take out their anger. Because they became famous, along with Tupac and Biggie, all the posers started flowing in.

Rap lyrics are like the boasting of a 12-year-old school boy; I don't believe that one of these dumbfucks has the first clue how to please a woman. And what's really so sad about this is that hip-hop has continued to grow as a genre, thanks to MC's like Mos Def, The Roots (Jimmy Fallon-what the fuck?) and Dead Prez.

Well we already addressed the Hip-Hop problem, rap is just a subset of Hip-Hop overall. As for the boasting? Have you ever heard the original stuff? Again, Run DMC and the Beastie Boys. Half of their shit was bullshit boasting. I can't tell you whether or not they knew how to please a woman though, you'll have to find someone they slept with and ask them that question. Bullshitting is part of the genre, just all in good fun ways to one up people.

And yes Hip-Hop continues to grow and evolve past the radio, but the radio never plays anything good since Hip-Hop is mostly considered to be the stuff that airs on Top 40 stations, which are filled with Pop/Dance music. As for this part

Too bad none of them play on the radio, since they don't sing about being a hard nigga and fuckin' up a ***** when she don't bring home the dough.

well that's the saddest part. Most of that stuff is dying out now and is being replaced by artist's like Drake, Kid Cudi, Kanye, Mos Def, The Roots, B.O.B (he's an iffy one though, needs more material), etc. etc. but unfortunately...

See, the greatest perpetrators of black stereotypes are sorry excuses for a black man such as Li'l Wayne.

Yeah pretty much, artist's like Lil Wayne are dragging down the genre as a whole and letting people only think that Hip-Hop is still "East-Coast vs. West Coast". And it's mostly wangsters who think by listening to a guy like Lil Wayne they're suddenly tough. But eventually he's gotta stop....I hope

 

[arrjay93]

Have you ever considered that sometimes people dislike genres at least partially because of the lack of talent involved? I mean I'll admit there are probably exceptions (though I've never experienced any firsthand, so that's more obligatory than genuine) but at the end of the day, regardless of personal opinion, almost anyone can do this.

Really?
OK then, make a song that will make millions of people run to the dancefloor whenever it plays.
I dare you. After all, almost anyone can do that.
Or are you one of the few who can't?

That's all marketing. I'm saying that anyone can preform this song, or create something of similar complexity and composure.

Catchy music isn't as complicated as complicated music but it isn't much easier. Some of these talentless artists do better than the other talentless artists - why?

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

Diddums, someone has a different opinion on music to you. Why is it that people like you can't just let other people have their likes and dislikes and have to have everyone lie something or just nothing it. Sure, there are a lot of good songs but if all anyone has heard from a specific genre is crap then how are they meant to know that it's the bad part of it? You write it off because what you've heard is utter shite, it's basic rules of logic:

Example 1 is shit, example 2 is shit, example 3 is shit also ... wow, all 10 examples were shit, this entire genre must be shit.

Fair play. Let them live with their choice of hatred.