Musical Ignorance

[Tim_Buoy]

I will stop saying 'I don't like rap' when I hear rap I like.

I hear what you're saying. But I don't think I throw the words hate around that much.

maybe i can help you with this have you heard any run dmc

 

[tigermilk]

There's no bad Jazz unless its faked, just cause Jazz isnt supposed to be GOOD its supposed to have feeling /etitism. XD kidding.

Shit, you had me going for a minute.

As for the elitism/cultural capital/inherent value of music debate. I find it fascinating and I'll keep reading threough the thread see if there is anything new being said... You never know.

 

[omega 616]

I don't dismiss it because of what the media says, I dismiss it because I've actually listened to it. Mostly involuntarily, but I have, and I have yet to find one I can connect to emotionally. Now, I am nothing if not open minded, so I will listen to the songs the posters said are the exception, and judge for myself. But even if any of those particular songs are good, it still says something of rap goers with how often a car drives by me with crap pounding my ears into submission.

But what does it say about Heavy Metal Listener's when I'm trying to go for a run and they drive by me, blaring something I can't hear myself think and screaming incomprehensible stuff?

Basically, just because a genre has exceptions (as tends to be the case) doesn't mean I'm gonna get into that particular genre and wade through the crap to find the good stuff.

So what you're saying is that 90% of all music is crap? Or are you just talking about the Hip-Hop genre? I'm actually curious about this, I'm not trying to start a flamewar over your specific tastes

In all honestly, I stick with what I listen to because percentage wise, I know I'm going to find a song I like more often than not.

But don't you ever just want to venture out and try some new stuff?

2) Justin Bieber is not harming the music industry financially, but he's harming its integrity (which in this day and age is pretty hard to do).

I don't know about that, pop music has turned into throw away razers. You go on X factor or some place has talent (which is usually a joke) and watch as 3 people get record contracts (even though it should only be one) after releasing 5 or so songs maybe the odd album they get forgotton about just in time for the next X factor or some place has talent.

Then bands like take that claim to be breaking up for good, only to join up again once there vast riches dry up.

I think Mitch Benn says it best ....

I completely agree here.

On topic. I think some "music" isn't music 'cos it's not made by musical instruments but it is something like music. I am not saying it's bad or anthing, I like lady Gaga and Eminem but I wouldn't say it's music.

But by that logic then Choir singing isn't music. Cause if the voice is an instrument then so everyone is using an instrument.

Music doesn't have to be using guitars/drumbs/brass intruments. Music is technically an art form whose medium is sound. If

this is considered art then I think Eminem/Lady Gaga/anyone who doesn't necessarily use an intrument is considered music

I know all about the "art is subjective" arument but a light going on and off is not art ... it's pompous, pretentious crap.

I think things that don't have instruments like guitars in should be called something else, I am not going to force it or anthing but the way I see it is, I never took computer or nothing (in the case of choirs and barber shop) in music at school.

Don't get me wrong, I love the odd bit of barber shop, rap etc but I can't call it proper music. Maybe it's just me being an awkward dick but it's just what I think.

 

[Connor Lonske]

I listen to anything if it's good. Hell, I even like some rap/Hip-Hop songs, just wish the DJ and the drummer got more credit. Rapper may be good with words but I know no rapper who can play any instrument well.

DJs how ever are almost always sound engineer, having skill in a lot more than putting words together. A good DJ/Sound Engineer are as skilled as classical music writers in my option.

And drums are bad ass cause their fucking drummers.

 

[kittii-chan 300]

i really hate it when someone says " oh, you like justin beiber =, your not good enogh for so and so! how dare you listen to OTHER music that is unrelated to my favourite kind which is the only REAL music!" i also hate dislike bar jokes and justin beiber comments on youtube. i'll listen to all kinds of music. i could find a song from ny genre that i like (i think)

pop: lazy song (only cuz its my theme tune)
rap: limp bizkit break stuff
rock: too much awesome! but i dont like the "old school" rock.
metal: sytem of a down. dont like any other metal really.
classical: o fortuna (or all-for-tuna)
soft: my faourite genre. i dont like some songs but i cant think of anything right now...

 

[SageRuffin]

*snip*

Those were all excellent choices, although I'll admit I really hate nerd rap with MF DOOM being my only exception. If only The Escapist allowed dump threads we could just freely share all our favorites.

To each his/her own. At least I was able to be of some assistance.

 

[klaynexas3]

rock piece of shit.

nahh, i'm just messing with you. i don't really like rap all that much, but hey, if you like it, good for you. rap at least has some thought form put into making it, so i'm fine with it. but pop, pop must be purged from this planet in a never ending fire

 

[aww yea]

I agree that there is more criticism given to rap and pop than there is to other genres but I would argue that this is completely fair. For example, I could rattle off dozens of hip-hop/RnB/pop acts that I hate. I can even tell you the lyrics to a lot of songs that I hate. The reason for this is because these acts get disproportionate amounts of coverage in mainstream media. A rock act would have to be ten times as good as a brand new pop act to get the same amount of radio play or press as them. Too often acts like this are flaunted in front of us because they make boat loads of money for a few months after which time someone new comes along to bask in the limelight. Shows like American Idol are perfect examples of this. How many winners of these shows are still around a year after their big win? The reason this happens with certain genres most is probably because it's easier to find someone with a good voice and a pretty face, give them some songs that someone else has already written and make an album. It would be much more difficult to find a whole band who write their own music and play their own instruments AND look good for the camera. Record companies make more money that way. And why shouldn't they, making money is what companies do. At least the ones that become successful. Making good music doesn't pay the bills. Making popular music does. That's why I respectfully disagree with the original poster. If people didn't ***** and moan about this kind of business, it would just get worse. Yeah, it's annoying to hear it all the time, but if I turn on the radio and hear song after song of production-line drivel instead of music that gets picked for quality rather than novelty, I get pretty annoyed as well.

It is undeniably harder to hold together a band of talented artists than a single artist and a lot easier to market singular artist (be it rap or pop), but that does not mean all rap or pop (whatever pop may be) should be discredited based on this.

***** and moan all you want about the process and the marketing. But talent and hard work deserves respect whatever genre its found in.

But i do agree that you cant stop there being more criticism toward hip-hop/pop etc because more of it is more in your face more of the time. Its just that this criticism closes people to an entire genre stopping them from "tasting" the actually good burried beneath the industries heavily marketed surface - and many people are so set in their ways that even after listening they haven't actually given it a chance in their head, or worse will not admit they quite enjoyed a song and that is clearly something that should not be happening

 

[enzilewulf]

rock piece of shit.

nahh, i'm just messing with you. i don't really like rap all that much, but hey, if you like it, good for you. rap at least has some thought form put into making it, so i'm fine with it. but pop, pop must be purged from this planet in a never ending fire

Now that was to blow off some steam. I was pissed for what ever reason and now I seem a little better but I can handle the fact that a lot of rap is shit but I hate it when no one sees that there is rock that is shit as well.

 

[aww yea]

I know all about the "art is subjective" arument but a light going on and off is not art ... it's pompous, pretentious crap.

Eh i think its pretty clever, the way the room seems to change shape because of the lighting. Its pretty pleasing to the eye too

EDIT: oh something went bad... i cant be bothered to figure out how to fix it

 

[SageRuffin]

Also, some food for thought when it comes to rap: there's a fine divide between a "rapper" and a "lyricist".

Slug (of Atmosphere) is a lyricist, Eminem is a rapper.
Sage Francis is a lyricist, Paul Wall is a rapper.
Lupe Fiasco is a lyricist, 50 Cent is a rapper.
While this greatly depends on the member themselves, The Wu-Tang Clan are lyricists, a group such as Dem Franchise Boys on the other hand...

Everyone get what I'm saying?

 

[gibboss28]

Just as a heads up, I'm sure this doesn't apply to a majority of the Escapist users as us lot seem to be an intelligent and open-minded bunch. It's just an observation I've had on the way many people regard music.

No no, it applies here.

 

[Sexual Harassment Panda]

Idealism...I guess it's ideal, but the alternatives save you a great deal of time.

My initial thought whenever I hear this stuff is: "You ain't gonna change the world, so change yourself". Allowing yourself to not care is really the only solution. Besides, do we really need to be so sensetive about everything?

Rap seems to be the prime example in all of these discussions, and I think there's good reason for it. I love rap when it's done right, but it really is limited. And the recurring themes...self promotion, sexism...money worship.

It's really fair enough for someone not to like it...except for Run DMC...they were actually interesting.

 

[Hobonicus]

I will stop saying 'I don't like rap' when I hear rap I like.

I hear what you're saying. But I don't think I throw the words hate around that much.

Exactly. Not only that, but according to the definition of music from my music theory teacher, rap isn't music at all. In the sense that it's more like a poem with some kind of beat in the background. Except without the "poem" part, and just words as far as I've heard. Not trying to be a stick in the mud, but I have to say I agree with him. Someone wants to change my mind, show me a rap song that actually brings any sort of emotion to the table.

Every time I see someone deconstructing music objectively I die a little inside. Nobody cares about your "definition" of music. Rap is music, we need to get over that as a community so we can stop shooting ourselves in the foot with these silly biases. People on this site will moan about others not considering games art then turn around and say hip hop isn't music because they just talk to a beat. They're probably the same type of people who will hate JRPGs because "they aren't technically RPGs". Xhoyl, NotSoNimble, you may very well be a great guys, but this attitude is true ignorance. And I don't mean that as an insult, it is literally a very closed minded perspective.

A ton of people are under the impression that all rap is that shitty mainstream gangsta stuff. I'd suggest a few tracks but most people wouldn't give it a chance. Atmosphere, Sage Francis, Buddy Wakefield, Aesop Rock, Immortal Technique, try a few instead of waiting for something to be presented to you while you grumpily reject them on name alone. Even if you've listened to these artists extensively and still somehow don't like intelligently crafted lyrics put to beats, nobody can make such hugely ignorant generalizations and expect to be justified in any way. And "not having heard anything you like so far" is not justification at all. If you honestly have never heard a hip hop song with emotion, then you clearly don't have enough experience to be judging it.

Any open minded person who actually cares about music has at least one artist they like from every genre.

 

[ChaoticKraus]

That's all marketing. I'm saying that anyone can preform this song, or create something of similar complexity and composure.

Bullshit, you make someone like something by marketing it. Either they like it or they don't.

And the fact stands that millions people like this song. Sure the lyrics aren't genius, but the beat is irresistibly danceable and the song has a hook that everyone who has heard it remembers.

Exactly. Not only that, but according to the definition of music from my music theory teacher, rap isn't music at all. In the sense that it's more like a poem with some kind of beat in the background. Except without the "poem" part, and just words as far as I've heard. Not trying to be a stick in the mud, but I have to say I agree with him. Someone wants to change my mind, show me a rap song that actually brings any sort of emotion to the table.

Well would you tell me why it isn't music then? Because as far as i know most of the rest of the worlds people consider it music. Granted, it's a rhytmic form of vocals and not a melodic one but that shouldn't disqualify it.

Oh and for your other questions.

Spoiler: A heartfelt Thank You from a man to his mother

Spoiler: A disturbing tale of fandom gone wrong

Spoiler: Possibly the only song to ever simultanously raise a white flag and the middle finger

 

[klaynexas3]

rock piece of shit.

nahh, i'm just messing with you. i don't really like rap all that much, but hey, if you like it, good for you. rap at least has some thought form put into making it, so i'm fine with it. but pop, pop must be purged from this planet in a never ending fire

Now that was to blow off some steam. I was pissed for what ever reason and now I seem a little better but I can handle the fact that a lot of rap is shit but I hate it when no one sees that there is rock that is shit as well.

Nah, I understand, rap gets unneccessary shit. rock does have bad songs, like any other genre. For instance, circa survive *shudder* utter disgrace. Technically you were kind of trolling though haha oh well, you hate it that people give your music a bad rap(no pun intended I swear on my life) and you got sick of it. It's cool, people need to back off

 

[Lionsfan]

I know all about the "art is subjective" arument but a light going on and off is not art ... it's pompous, pretentious crap.

I definitely agree with you here. I mean if you read one of the description's for it, it's so fucking uptight

Spoiler

The content of this work is almost nothing: a gallery with bare walls in which the lights turn on and off in intervals of five seconds. This piece is based on a cycle of repetitive contradictions: each five-second phase is denied by the next. Creed controls the fundamental conditions ofvisibility within the gallery and redirects our attention to the walls that normally act as support and background for art objects. He treats the gallery as a medium to be molded, manipulating the existing lighting to create a new effect. Akin to John Cage's influential 1952 sound piece 4''33"?a four-minute, thirty-three-second composition of silence?Creed's witty, sensorial work subverts the normal spatial and temporal parameters of viewing experience.

.
That definitely goes to show how overthinking something isn't always good.

But the Art World accepts all, from Contemporary, to Surreal, to etc. etc. I just think that the musical world needs to do the same too.

I think things that don't have instruments like guitars in should be called something else, I am not going to force it or anthing but the way I see it is, I never took computer or nothing (in the case of choirs and barber shop) in music at school.

Don't get me wrong, I love the odd bit of barber shop, rap etc but I can't call it proper music. Maybe it's just me being an awkward dick but it's just what I think.

But I guess we'll just always have differing opinions. No big deal

 

[Mrsrlg]

Amen.

There is not a single genre that I can claim is bad.
Though I can't say all the songs in any one genre are good.

I will probably be intensely judged, and possible hated for this - but the only band I have never been able to stand listening to are System of a Down.
Though there probably are a lot more similar types of bands I dislike, haha.

 

[Hatchet90]

To all those saying they hate rap.

LISTEN TO THE GORILLAZ

I don't even like rap, but I absolutely love the Gorillaz. I'd classify their music as, Progressive Rap.

To me, this song is the absolute best cruising song.

 

[blankedboy]

I've seen this a lot in the metal fans I knew in life, they'd write of anything that isn't metal (or worse; some stupid 'sub-genre' of metal) because it isn't metal. Never really got that.

There's no bad Jazz unless its faked, just cause Jazz isnt supposed to be GOOD its supposed to have feeling /etitism. XD kidding.

Except for that new-fangled fusion crap. Damn kids meddlin' with my jazz. Now this is jazz:
/super-elitist.

It had to be done, admit it.