Namco Denies Dark Souls Difficulty Comment

[thejackyl]

I'm in the minority here where I don't really care either way. As long as FromSoft still balances the standard difficulty correctly (Current patch in both Demon's and Dark Souls is pretty good pvp aside), I don't see why Easy mode is such a big deal.

Yes, it cheapens the experience for them, but if you play on normal, you get the same experience. I love the difficulty, and I will not play the next game on easy when I get it (I'll probably wait a few months like I did with Dark Souls).

I can still remember when I beat Sif and the Gaping Dragon for the first time. I literally jumped up, hands raised, and said woohoo, quietly since it was like 2am.

 

[Warachia]

If you don't strive to make your game accessible to players, and present players with new ideas, and challenges to overcome, you have failed as a game creator, if you make a game like Dark Souls and deliberatly make it so hard that most people don't want to play it, and choose not to add in an easier difficulty, you are simply making a game for yourself, the way you want it, not a game for any cutsomer.

They ARE making it for customers. A specific niche of customers who like to play brokenly hard games.

there is such a thing as a niche game. This is clearly intended to be one. Not every game is for every person. DS is not for me. I don't know about you. But really, who cares?

Bullshit, you can't make comments defending the game and trying to argue in it's favour and then say "who cares?"

Hiding behind "Niche" game also doesn't work here, I've explained before that it is technically inept, and for some reason people think that saying it's a "Niche" game stops it from being a bad game with terrible levels, and it's all part of the challenge, in that case you can't argue with people like that because they'll deliberately look away from the massive problems with the game and just declare them intentional, no matter how stupid or anti-fun they are.

 

[ShaqLevick]

Well, I have the perfect solution to the problem of Easy Mode, just set a super easy mode that wasn't able to go on-line. This way the "Hardcore" type still get to have access to the actual game, and the so called "Noobs" can still have the satisfaction of finishing their $60 investment before putting it away forever.

 

[sonofliber]

so the only answer for not wanting an OPTIONAL difficulty is : "but then we cant brag that we beat DS, cause theres an easy difficulty (news flash you still can)"

 

[Warachia]

If you don't strive to make your game accessible to players, and present players with new ideas, and challenges to overcome, you have failed as a game creator, if you make a game like Dark Souls and deliberatly make it so hard that most people don't want to play it, and choose not to add in an easier difficulty, you are simply making a game for yourself, the way you want it, not a game for any cutsomer.

If you are trying to make a game/book/movie/music for *everyone* you might as well stop, because you have/will fail hard "as a creator".
You CAN'T make a product for everyone and trying to do so will often produce a heap of undesirable sludge that nobody really likes.

The best thing you can do if you aren't working for McBigPublisher and are yet again trying to "grab the Call of Duty/World of Warcraft audience" is make a game you'd want to play and you can put your heart into to the best of your abilities, potentially also targetting a certain market but nothing else.

I'm gonna spare myself commenting on you whining for half a page about Dark Souls though

Sorry, but this argument is also BS, movies, books, and games are entirely separate mediums, and I NEVER said to make the game for everyone, that was you putting words in my mouth, I said you should make your game accessible to your audience, which is COMPLETELY separate.

I understand wanting to target a certain audience, but targeting that audience is no good if you have a lot of terrible implementation, and that's why I made my first post explaining how an easy mode can make up for the implementation.

 

[Master_Fubar23]

I agree dark souls can be challenging but it does have real some bullshit moments. Like area with the red dragon. There is no warning what so ever that your ass is going to get lit up. At least with traps you have a warning IF you're paying attention. Another one is how the camera is set up. Trying to see around a corner is easy and great in amnesia but in dark souls going down a small corridor that doesn?t allow you to turn the camera only to get attacked once you enter the room at the end by a monster that you had no chance of knowing or seeing was there because it was hugging the wall to your left or right is bullshit. Besides those annoyances I love dark souls and haven't had an issue with the difficultly. Also some people are talking about dark souls as if it?s a single player game but it?s not. You are always connected to the servers if you have internet so you can summon other players to help you or in some cases they will hunt you. So having a different difficultly would break the game since everyone and everything in the game is connected to an extent.

 

[Prof.Beany]

You want an easy mode? Go on the internet for 5 minutes and bring up a wiki.
Seriously, its a game about trial and error, the giant crushing enemies are almost always trivial to take down once you know their attack patterns and have a grasp of the basic mechanics. The only difficulty here really is your own ability to be patient.

Theres also this misconception that death in DS is a failure state, when really the only failure state is giving up. Death is part of the whole experience, its not a game over, its a point at which you have to meditate on what just happened and adjust your approach to the situation accordingly, its not that the enemies have ridiculous HP or Damage, its that you haven't yet learned their attack patterns and how to dodge them.

What would an easy mode do? Reduce HP and attack power on enemies?
Congratulations you're now playing the single most boring RPG ever made. Barely any story to follow (its not given to you straight up anyway, theres a whole bunch of text lore) stupidly easy encounters and an incredibly short game.

Deny it all you want, but difficulty IS the core of Dark Souls and an easy mode would make the game bland and uninteresting. If you dont enjoy the kind of trial and error gameplay than simply dont pick it up, the developers dont have to appeal to everyone and the game WILL suffer if an easy mode is added in.

 

[Denamic]

Yeah without the constant omnipresent fear of something several times your height suddenly crushing you beneath it's mighty boot for having the audacity to smack it's pitiful minions about the game would be a lot less satisfying.

Well... yes.
Your comment, though obviously sardonic, is entirely correct.
The ever present fear of imminent death is integral to the Souls experience.
The punishing nature of the games is what makes it feel so good when you succeed.
It's a different kind of rewarding feeling than the ye olde skinners box mechanics provide.
The games makes you feel good about yourself.

 

[Trishbot]

Deny it all you want, but difficulty IS the core of Dark Souls and an easy mode would make the game bland and uninteresting. If you dont enjoy the kind of trial and error gameplay than simply dont pick it up, the developers dont have to appeal to everyone and the game WILL suffer if an easy mode is added in.

The difficulty was the core of Ninja Gaiden too... but the addition of both an easier and HARDER difficulty did nothing to make Ninja Gaiden Black worse and it suffered in no way, shape, or form from the addition of a slightly easier mode. In fact, most players were grateful for the chance to still play the game and have a decent, not overbearingly brutal, challenge that matched their skill levels, instead of it simply being an exercise in patience and frustration.

Again, I see no reason why Dark Souls could not do this very same thing. The original difficulty would remain perfectly intact. If players WANT an easier option, even if it's a "less rewarding" experience (that's for them to decide, though), they have that option, or they can ignore it altogether.

But no video game that gave you an easier difficulty option has ever "suffered" for it. Contra is still great, with or without the Konami Code, while Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition has an easier mode, yet "Dante Must Die" mode still exists for hardcore masochists.

Everyone gets their slice of cake to enjoy. It seems rather petty to deny people the chance to enjoy an otherwise good game just because the standard difficulty is too high for many. I'm not saying make it a walk in the park; but a slightly less-brutal mode would certainly make it more accessible and, yes, more enjoyable for those with less time, skill, or patience.

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

following the interview, many ardent Dark Souls fans leapt onto forums to argue that the difficulty is what makes it fun, and that easing up on it would compromise the entire experience.

Because adding difficulty options that are just that, optional, is obviously an abomination.

 

[Vous Pouvez Pensez]

There was a controversy over this? Gamers, getting upset because the developers might be adding a difficulty slider! Oh noes, people who have less 'skillz' then you can complete the game too and your cherished pathetic achievement of beating the game becomes less exclusive. Oh noes!

I think he should stick by his statement if it wasn't a mistranslation and not let the PR department appease the pettiest of fans but I can understand their actions and their desire to please their fans by keeping to their... urm... ideals.

and u have no buisness commmenting here considering u have never played a souls game.

 

[Gormech]

The problem is that when you have an easy path along side a now optional hard mode, there is less appeal seeing as you can just opt out for the easy mode instead of forcing yourself through the hard one. What should be done is keep things as they are, having the game start out at a default difficulty and get more difficult over consecutive playthroughs. Just lower the initial difficulty and let it ramp up. This gives those that can't make it on the first shot learn their way around the game while not separating them from the hard-core group. After the first playthrough, let them choose to rather start again at the same difficulty or choose to ramp it up. Make stronger items for those who choose the latter path but keep a min/max pvp level to keep griefing down. Also ... FIX THE FREAKING BOTTOMLESS BOX GLITCH.

 

[lacktheknack]

snip

For the same reason, as I already said, that I wouldn't want Mario to have the option to remove jumping.

There are many, many options you can give players regarding difficulty that you wouldn't want to because it would fundamentally cheapen and change the experience.

That said, now that I think about it, I suppose that if it were handled by giving the player more experience points rather than making enemies and encounters easier, that would probably be acceptable. Something like that wouldn't change the fundamentals of the game.

But with Dark souls? The art style, the minimal story, the atmosphere all build around how desperate the situation of Lordran is. Remove the difficulty and the rest is pretty meaningless. Not all games need to be all things to all people.

See, I get where you all are coming from, but options are optional. That's why they're called options. Because they're optional. As in the only effect it has is on the people that choose to use that option. You're saying that people shouldn't even have that choice.

You have-

[The Dark Souls that exists now] + [the easier mode]

The easier mode does change the fundamentals of the game, and does remove a major part of why the game exists and why a lot of people enjoy it, but those changes only exist in the easier mode. Again, the game that you've played won't be touched. But if Steve wants to play that mode because he doesn't enjoy Dark Souls as it is, there's no reason not to give him that choice. It might be fun to him. It might not, but there's someone out there who would enjoy an easier Dark Souls, and the idea that they shouldn't even have the chance to play an easier Dark Souls because what they play wouldn't be fundamentally "right" is just ridiculous.

It's like saying that diet soda shouldn't exist because artificial sweeteners cheapen its fundamentals.

But is it worth the time, effort and money required to make an easy mode that would make those who used it not particularly impressed?

According to this article, no, Namco doesn't think so.

 

[Burst6]

The difficulty was the core of Ninja Gaiden too... but the addition of both an easier and HARDER difficulty did nothing to make Ninja Gaiden Black worse and it suffered in no way, shape, or form from the addition of a slightly easier mode. In fact, most players were grateful for the chance to still play the game and have a decent, not overbearingly brutal, challenge that matched their skill levels, instead of it simply being an exercise in patience and frustration.

Again, I see no reason why Dark Souls could not do this very same thing. The original difficulty would remain perfectly intact. If players WANT an easier option, even if it's a "less rewarding" experience (that's for them to decide, though), they have that option, or they can ignore it altogether.

But no video game that gave you an easier difficulty option has ever "suffered" for it. Contra is still great, with or without the Konami Code, while Devil May Cry 3: Special Edition has an easier mode, yet "Dante Must Die" mode still exists for hardcore masochists.

Everyone gets their slice of cake to enjoy. It seems rather petty to deny people the chance to enjoy an otherwise good game just because the standard difficulty is too high for many. I'm not saying make it a walk in the park; but a slightly less-brutal mode would certainly make it more accessible and, yes, more enjoyable for those with less time, skill, or patience.

Dark souls is nothing like ninja gaiden or devil may cry. It's not worth a comparison. Those games are 100% about the flashy action. Most of the appeal comes from doing cool things and feeling like a badass. If you fudge a bit of attack speed, damage, and HP you can change difficulty easily and still do the main focus of the game. Dark souls isn't anywhere near nintendo hard so contra isn't much of a comparison.

Dark souls is nothing like them. It revolves around the difficulty. The combat is made to be tight and weighty. Without the difficulty combat is overly simple and boring. The atmosphere depends on the difficulty of the game. Making it easy takes any threat out of the world. The whole system of dropped souls, the whole bonfire system, everything about the game revolves around the difficulty.

Taking away the core of the game, the thing every part of the game is based on, will leave nothing but a boring game. If you're asking them to make a good easy mode, you're asking them to make a whole new game.

If you want to play the game but you're intimidated by the difficulty go for it. If you have the time to play through a game like red dead redemption or GTA, you have the time to play through dark souls. Skill and patience are things you can acquire. No one is denying anyone the chance to play dark souls. People just aren't playing it. It's seems far more petty to try and change something so dedicated to its difficulty because you don't feel like trying.

 

[Twilight_guy]

There was a controversy over this? Gamers, getting upset because the developers might be adding a difficulty slider! Oh noes, people who have less 'skillz' then you can complete the game too and your cherished pathetic achievement of beating the game becomes less exclusive. Oh noes!

I think he should stick by his statement if it wasn't a mistranslation and not let the PR department appease the pettiest of fans but I can understand their actions and their desire to please their fans by keeping to their... urm... ideals.

and u have no buisness commmenting here considering u have never played a souls game.

That would be a valid statement if game design principles didn't apply between games. Luckily they do, so I can make some statements. Also, 'u' is a letter, 'you' is a word. When you use text-speak in a post it makes you look like you are not putting effort into your post.

 

[Judgement101]

if the game is too hard you know who to call for

This. If the game is too hard for you, find a team mate. Join the Sun Bros and join in some Jolly Cooperation. In all honesty the only fight that gave me a hard time was Orenstien and Smough, god damn was that fight annoying as hell. Well, also, the final boss was a nightmare but then I did the coward fight (that steel skin thingy+Smough Armor+Ricard's Rapier SPAMMMMM)

 

[Gormech]

Let me put it this way.

At the beginning of a game, you are given a weapon that can easily destroy any enemy with little to no effort.

You can choose to get through the game without it though it may be hard, but that easy-way-out option is always on the table for you.

It destroys the immersion because no matter how difficult you make the journey, you always know that you didn't 'have to' and that there was never any 'real' danger seeing as that you could always just switch to easy mode and skip through the tough spots.

People who beat the game the hard way get less of a feeling of accomplishment because they are still stuck on par with the guys who easy-way'd their way to that point. Sometimes they'll get a little tag or something for aesthetic purpose but it's about as worthwile as one of those "I survived _____" shirts. Giving them stronger stuff tends to cause the unbalancing argument to come up for some reason ...

Games ment to be taken seriously should be taken seriously. (at first at least)

 

[Olrod]

There was a very legitimate concern that adding an easy difficulty would lure most players over to it and give them a crappy experience that damaged the franchise. There's no fun to be had in an "easy" version of these games, just disappointment. Without the difficulty you'd be left with a middling 3rd person combat game with a decent story and atmosphere.

No. Just no.

If your only drawing point of a game is its "difficulty" perhaps you should try making your game FUN instead.

If you feel that your game isn't fun enough for people to enjoy playing it and that your only claim to greatness is in your game's "difficulty" then your game deserves to fail.

 

[Dogstile]

There was a controversy over this? Gamers, getting upset because the developers might be adding a difficulty slider! Oh noes, people who have less 'skillz' then you can complete the game too and your cherished pathetic achievement of beating the game becomes less exclusive. Oh noes!

I think he should stick by his statement if it wasn't a mistranslation and not let the PR department appease the pettiest of fans but I can understand their actions and their desire to please their fans by keeping to their... urm... ideals.

Whoa there, big straw man guy.

You obviously didn't play the game. It is entirely designed around its difficulty. What you're saying is the equivalent of "we should add the option to remove jumping from Mario because that would make it more accessible."

There was a very legitimate concern that adding an easy difficulty would lure most players over to it and give them a crappy experience that damaged the franchise. There's no fun to be had in an "easy" version of these games, just disappointment. Without the difficulty you'd be left with a middling 3rd person combat game with a decent story and atmosphere.

Hell no, you'd still have to learn how to take out enemies, you'd just have a less punishing time of doing it. Making enemy attacks do less damage and making poison less bullshitty wouldn't mean that spear enemies would stop being a pain or that brute enemies can't throw you around.

I play the game, it doesn't need to change, but its not some super exclusive club that only a few people should have access too, especially seeing as the multiplayer now is filled with griefers and people who use the absolute best equipment. The game could use new blood.

Edit: In case you're going to go with some absolute drivel about them having to buy new servers, two things. If the easier difficulty bought in new players, they would have the money to buy new servers, which is exactly what they did for the hardcore players. Aside from that, they could just say "easy mode is tutorial mode, no online play". Both valid solutions.

 

[The White Hunter]

Yeah without the constant omnipresent fear of something several times your height suddenly crushing you beneath it's mighty boot for having the audacity to smack it's pitiful minions about the game would be a lot less satisfying.

Well... yes.
Your comment, though obviously sardonic, is entirely correct.
The ever present fear of imminent death is integral to the Souls experience.
The punishing nature of the games is what makes it feel so good when you succeed.
It's a different kind of rewarding feeling than the ye olde skinners box mechanics provide.
The games makes you feel good about yourself.

Not entirely sure how it was sardonic, I wasn't trying to be ironic or cynical. I was being quite honest about my feelings about the game, I love how challening it is and I love how it punishes you constantly. Makes you really feel you achieved something when you FINALLY get past a boss or particularly tough enemy.