New Console Generation Brings Fear

[userwhoquitthesite]

Um, how about the fact that gaming PCs are STILL more expensive than consoles, and people are more willing to buy a dedicated game player than they are a computer. A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard, and since any controllers are necessarily third-party, people have to put in twice as much effort to get one that works. It's also easier for developers to build to standardized technical schematics, rather than having to guess what the best average of current computing hardware amongst the masses, which is why MANY console games dont make it onto PC...

To sum up, you're an idiot.

I don't know where people get off on calling PC gamers arrogant when those who dismiss it sign off with crap like:

"To sum up, you're an idiot."

Especially when the substance of their own argument is so weak.

"easier for developers to build to standardized technical schematics"

Except when you have three radically and totally different hardware types between Xbox 360, PS3 and Wii... the PC version is the easiest to develop for out of all of those. And PC IS standardised, it's just varying power. You don't need to code a game to run faster on better hardware found in PC, it naturally does so. Better graphics card = more frames per second.

In fact very FEW console games don't make it to PC, a tiny proportion once you exclude the first-party console games as of course Sony would never allow Uncharted 3 on a Microsoft Windows PC nor in fact anything other than a Playstation 3/Vita.

And then to complain about keyboard? Well it's a matter of familiarity, to the novice a keyboard is much more familiar an interface than a gamepad and mouse has inherent advantages as a proportional input.

I called him an idiot because he acted like there was no truth to the previous poster's claim, when evidence readily exists, is easily researched, and that he should know just from standard industry information.

Now, to your own brand of FIMS. The power of PCs is not standardized, which you yourself say in your own response. The graphics cards are not standard across each individual machine, which means that they have to pick a minimum level of support, and make it work for that. There is only ONE low setting to work on when one develops for a console. Cross-console games aren't the topic, because he mentioned exclusives specifically, although he may merely have meant console-exclusive, but then many games that developers are willing to port to other consoles get ported to pc anyway, as you mention. And I never complained about using a keyboard once. In fact, let me interrupt myself and mention that I AM a PC gamer, or was until my gaming computer caught fire (havent had money or much reason to replace it yet) and that I have never used anything but the keyboard and mouse. What I SAID is that many ARE unwilling to use a keyboard, because while they are familiar with the device, they are NOT familiar with using it for anything other than typing. And yes, the mouse is more maneuver, but some people are more comfortable with the more tactile response of a stick

And that returns me to my final point, which you neglected to even TRY to refute, which is the inherent added difficulty of game apparatus acquisition on PC, because you need to find them, know whether this model out of hundreds is compatible, whether it is reliable or whether it will break after one use, and whether or not it suits your gaming needs. Whereas if you buy a dualshock, you know it is going to work for whatever game you put in.

 

[Treblaine]

Maybe if P.C. elitists want to be called "the master race" they should start acting like one instead of 13-year-old fanboys who fly into a fit of rage every time someone mentions the world "console".

I dunno man, PC gamers seem to consistently act amost exactly like the last group of people who called themselves the "Master race", if you know what I mean.

Godwin's Law!

PC gamers are absolutely nothing like those sort, except that they are hated by console gamers almost as much as a reasonable person would hate the Nazis.

Ooh, other similarities - absolutely no capacity to take a joke, and delusions of persecution. You're on a roll.

You allege PC gamers have "absolutely no capacity to take a joke" when you don't realise that PC Gamers coined the term "PC Master Race" AS A JOKE that people opposed to PC gaming took literally!

And what does humourlessness have to do with fascism? That seem more like a nationalist attack on German stereotype of being humourless.

PC gamers obviously can take a joke for the number of jokes played on them like the GoG foreclosure joke/marketing ploy and all the jokes by Gaben about Steam. Hell, we call Gabe Newall Gaben

Delusions of Persecution? From how YOU and others are acting in this thread about the mere suggestion of consoles being like PC gaming. Pot. Kettle. Black.

Face it, you blew the argument already with invoking Godwin's Law and you're only digging yourself a bigger hole. Just amit you were wrong to exploit the reputation of a horrific part of history for a shameless attack.

Ooh. Ooh. Adding that actions are intended to be ironic despite you clearly believing every single word you said as can be inferred from you claiming that the supposed "inferiorities" you judged are a threat or obstacle to you, and then following it up by a strawman argument about the other side. Man, you're really helping me make this comparison stronger.

And I was talking about Neo-Nazi skinheads you idiot. A notoriously humourless group. And I can only assume you mistake "fear" with "telling PC gamers to shut the fuck up, nobody cares how superior they think they are".

Of course it's ironic, how could you not get the irony?!?!

"despite you clearly believing every single word"

Now that's a straw man argument. PC Gaming "master race" is in no way a racial statement, it's an obvious joke for how anyone of any race can get into PC gaming regardless of race, online everyone can be without race or gender nor nationality, it's just the bare you. The actual Nazi allegations are desperate and shallow semantic ploy.

Yes, consoles gaming IS inferior to PC gaming. That is IN NO WAY the moral equivalent of dictating that all non-aryans are sub-human and should be enslaved or exterminated, i.e. nazi beliefs. Which is what you have alleged against PC gamers and to spite repeated prompts you have refused to retract.

"a strawman argument about the other side."

Nope. I never lied about what your argument nor stance was. Please point where I did and I will amend it and apologise.

"And I was talking about Neo-Nazi skinheads you idiot."

Oh, you say I'm an idiot for assuming the Nazis were the last group to significantly operate under the true belief in the "Master Race". If that is what you meant, that isn't helping your outrageous argument, now saying benign and playful PC gamers are like Neo-Nazis street thugs rather than Nazis from the 1930-40's.

And I can only assume you mistake "fear" with "telling PC gamers to shut the fuck up, nobody cares how superior they think they are".

Number 1: WHY would anyone assume that? Other than to convenience your argument?

Number 2: the very TITLE of this thread is "New Console Generation Brings FEAR" when it describes common PC features becoming standard on consoles where it is explicit and unambiguous. Not a hint on my part nor OP's part of saying this fear is an arrogant dismissal of PC Gaming's advantages.

Number 3: if you didn't care, what are you doing right now going on this great spiel? I think you DO care but are afraid of change, of progress, of changing the status quo. And are lashing out with fallacious arguments and exploitative insults.

In summary: if console gaming wants to keep living in the past with its disc-retail based model, well be it on their heads, it is not obstacle nor threat to PC gaming, be sure of that. I just know the old model far more benefits the shops and publishers than the actual artists, designers and programmers who actually MAKE the game! I've heard from so many developers the huge advantages of going all-digital yet console gamers are so resistant, they don't seem to know (and many not even care) what they are standing in the way of.

If anything, call me a communist. Not a Nazi. Because that's what I and PC gamers are arguing for, a better deal for the little guy and taking out the big corporate control.

Wow. I mean, wow. The level of logical disconnect is mindboggling.

"We don't believe that 'PC's are superior' stuff, its just a joke"

and then immediately

"Consoles are inferior".

Is there a word for that level of outright logical disconnect? Its not even hypocrisy, its more "Do as I say now, not as I just said".

And if you can show me actual fear that isn't "I'm slightly apprehensive at a major shift to a market that seems heavily based on stable distribution channels" or "I feel that technical advancements won't outweigh the possible move more towards polish instead of direct innovation in terms of new game development", then your argument won't be strawman.

And of course, the "arguing with me proves you know I'm right" thing. No, Im doing this cause I find it funny how you manage to continually provide me with more and more evidence that seems to portray you (and, if we're taking you as a typical example of them, all PC gamers) as cartoonishly egotistical bad guys.

No logical disconnect, you just aren't reading with thorough comprehensions. It would help if you didn't use quotation marks around a sentence that I NEVER SAID, not even paraphrased.

What I actually said was:

"PC Gaming "master race" is in no way a racial statement"

I never refuted that consoles are inferior to Gaming PCs. I don't see how anyone could, it's a simple fact. It's like saying an Ford Mondeo is faster than a Horse. Yes, gaming PCs are more powerful and capable, welcome to 2007. This is not a matter of opinion nor politics.

How am I as a typical example of all PC gamers as:

"cartoonishly egotistical bad guys"

How am I bad opposing big business crushing the little guy? Wanting a better deal for both the consumer and the developers? How am I egotistical stating that one form of TECHNOLOGY is superior when that is obvious from the side by side tests?

Not at all. You're full of empty, hollow and meaningless accusations. You might as well accuse me of being a witch who cast a curse on you to give you bad luck. It's ridiculous. PC gaming.

PS: Strawman argument =/= argument-I-don't-like.

You are repeatedly misusing that term. A Strawman argument is when you lie about what the other person's stance or argument actually is. Why are YOU bringing Fear into this? YOU made allegations that PC gamers are like some kind of nazis, explicitly like NEO NAZIS! That is your stance, that is your argument.

This argument about alleging Fear is NOT MY ARGUMENT. You are alleging Strawman fallacy in precisely and example of you abusing it. It is the OP's argument of fear, genuine fear (that creepy doll picture) can it be any more explicit?!?!

My stance is countering the allegation of "delusions of persecution" which is not fear, it's definitely a sense of entitlement and arrogance that nothing should change just people they are happy where things are, regardless of how much the current console system utterly screws the developers and gives a raw deal to the consumers UNLESS they resort to pre-owned games which just leaves Developers even worse off. Yes, I know it's 100% legal, I know it is totally precedented by centuries of the right to resell goods, but I've seen the other side, how things can work so much better on PC. This WORKS!

 

[Waaghpowa]

At least for a week or so until the next new graphics card comes out.

Too late, that was today =D

GTX 680 ^_^

Too bad they use PCIe 3.0, I would need to replace a whole board. Just gonna wait for the 500's drop in price and snatch 2 580's or 590's.

PCIe 3.0 cards are backwards compatible with PCIe 2.0 boards.

I read that PCIe 3.0 sockets were backwards compatable with 2.0 cards and that 3.0 cards NEEDED a 3.0 socket. I have to look this up again.

 

[Waaghpowa]

Also, you know none of these kinds of arguments would occur in threads if people didn't bother to acknowledge them. Someone said something I don't agree with! Let's call them elitists, make sweeping generalizations and continue to argue with them because we're right and they're wrong because they're all jerks!

The kind of crusades some people go on to slander a group over something so trivial is ridiculous. So please, can we just drop it?

 

[Treblaine]

Um, how about the fact that gaming PCs are STILL more expensive than consoles, and people are more willing to buy a dedicated game player than they are a computer. A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard, and since any controllers are necessarily third-party, people have to put in twice as much effort to get one that works. It's also easier for developers to build to standardized technical schematics, rather than having to guess what the best average of current computing hardware amongst the masses, which is why MANY console games dont make it onto PC...

To sum up, you're an idiot.

I don't know where people get off on calling PC gamers arrogant when those who dismiss it sign off with crap like:

"To sum up, you're an idiot."

Especially when the substance of their own argument is so weak.

"easier for developers to build to standardized technical schematics"

Except when you have three radically and totally different hardware types between Xbox 360, PS3 and Wii... the PC version is the easiest to develop for out of all of those. And PC IS standardised, it's just varying power. You don't need to code a game to run faster on better hardware found in PC, it naturally does so. Better graphics card = more frames per second.

In fact very FEW console games don't make it to PC, a tiny proportion once you exclude the first-party console games as of course Sony would never allow Uncharted 3 on a Microsoft Windows PC nor in fact anything other than a Playstation 3/Vita.

And then to complain about keyboard? Well it's a matter of familiarity, to the novice a keyboard is much more familiar an interface than a gamepad and mouse has inherent advantages as a proportional input.

I called him an idiot because he acted like there was no truth to the previous poster's claim, when evidence readily exists, is easily researched, and that he should know just from standard industry information.

Yet he DID, by the time you posted that Idiot allegation he had provides sources (in another reply stream_ and you haven't.

Now, to your own brand of FIMS. The power of PCs is not standardized, which you yourself say in your own response. The graphics cards are not standard across each individual machine, which means that they have to pick a minimum level of support, and make it work for that. There is only ONE low setting to work on when one develops for a console. Cross-console games aren't the topic, because he mentioned exclusives specifically, although he may merely have meant console-exclusive, but then many games that developers are willing to port to other consoles get ported to pc anyway, as you mention. And I never complained about using a keyboard once. In fact, let me interrupt myself and mention that I AM a PC gamer, or was until my gaming computer caught fire (havent had money or much reason to replace it yet) and that I have never used anything but the keyboard and mouse. What I SAID is that many ARE unwilling to use a keyboard, because while they are familiar with the device, they are NOT familiar with using it for anything other than typing. And yes, the mouse is more maneuver, but some people are more comfortable with the more tactile response of a stick

And that returns me to my final point, which you neglected to even TRY to refute, which is the inherent added difficulty of game apparatus acquisition on PC, because you need to find them, know whether this model out of hundreds is compatible, whether it is reliable or whether it will break after one use, and whether or not it suits your gaming needs. Whereas if you buy a dualshock, you know it is going to work for whatever game you put in.

"Which means that they have to pick a minimum level of support, and make it work for that."

That's simply not true, games DO run better on better hardware. Not at the same level as the lowest supported hardware. Games run better on a GTX280 than on a 7800GT. Better framerate, resolution, AA, world-settings, etc.

Consoles have to be cross platform to be profitable due to how much of each target market is split between PS3 and 360, though I suppose that could change, though on PC side there is no great split as Mac owners don't seem to be the gaming type. And the differences between PS3 and 360 are HUGE, as I can attest from the explanation of how different they are on the most basic level of the OS. PS3 is Unix based, while 360 is based on Windows coding architecture. That's before even the fundamental and hardware differences of multiple small SPEs and how the memory is divided up.

"And I never complained about using a keyboard once."

Well you did:

"A LOT of people are put off trying to play games with a keyboard"

You complained about how people are put off by it, I never alleged you personally were put off by it, you alleged others were. But I guarantee you, it's far easier to explain the concepts of circle strafing and such with discrete keys than a thumbstick as I have experimented subjecting complete novices to gaming to different controller inputs. Keyboard is an incredibly capable gaming interface.

"you neglected to even TRY to refute, which is the inherent added difficulty of game apparatus acquisition on PC"

You never actually said that beyond complaining about how hard it is to pick a keyboard and mouse... which aren't exactly the hardest choices. And I guarantee you within your area there is a computer repair shop that will build a gaming rig for your for a flat fee and get a good deal on the components. I work in one of these computer repair shops not in a major city but a quiet town and I'm business contact with computer repair shops of each town over north south and southwest. You can easily find out online what components you want or you can just buy a pre-built PC.

 

[brazuca]

Why do game journalist keep up with this argument that new console will definitely mean better graphics?! The technical quality is indeed limited by the hardware, but do you want to know what is the Major factor? Money, budget. You can not hope to achieve Uncharted 3, Witcher 2 or Crysis 2 (like or not) graphics without a big budget.

EDIT: Witcher 2 is an exception 8 million dollars were spent to make this game, but in general they do not come this "cheap".

 

[likalaruku]

::Checks out "Cthulhu Saves the World"::
::Notices it is an oldschool 2D RPG::
::Notices that it comes bundled with another RPGMaker game::
::Notices $3 price tag::
::Buys::

What were we talking about? Oh consoles. Well a new generation means the one from 2 generations before will be available for $5, yes? That's fine with me. If I want newer games, I'll save money & just get a new graphics card. & I play indie games all the time, on PC. & when an iPad 1 drops down to jack squat, it will make a nice art tablet.

 

[instantbenz]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't the new National Endowment for the Arts' decision on 'video games are art' make for there being less of this 'consoles wouldn't dare take on the indie game market' issue?

Such indie companies and even sole devs can write for grants now and get assistance for production of these things. How much does the console company have to throw in?

notrollbtw

 

[Grey Day for Elcia]

Sorry, I can't hear you over the sound of the glorious PC continuing to be the only intelligent way to game.

 

[Parnage]

Sounds like more of a reason to release on PC's over consoles if you are a new comer developer. I am okay with this.

 

[rapidoud]

So many PC-exclusive trolls in this thread.

I am uber leet because I read on a kindle and you read hardback trolololol. Can't we all just get along without 'my word getting in'?

 

[Zom-B]

Week by week, I'm more and more convinced that when I'm ready to "upgrade" to the next generation of gaming, it will be via PC and not console. I'd much rather shell out $1000 for a quality PC than $500 for a console that will have little of the function of a PC and definitely not match it in graphic output or processing power.

I'm fairly convinced that I will be giving the next console generation a mix and returning to PC gaming.

On a side note, sometimes I wonder if anyone at Sony or MS has ever floated the idea of making a "PC lite" as their next "console". Fuck proprietary discs and memory and say to consumers: "Hey, here is an affordable base model gaming box that is designed to give you maximum enjoyment out of gaming." Make it compatible with current PC games and components, upgradeable, sleek and price conscious. Basically a PC masquerading as a console. Something that works out of the box, that Sony can still develop for and contract out to other developers and make games guaranteed to run on the machine, even if not at optimal levels, but still allows for other gamers to get the most of of games like Skyrim.

Obviously this is a wild fantasy and I don't see either company doing anything remotely like this, but I wonder if it's a viable direction. PCs and consoles are converging anyway- or maybe I should say that consoles are beginning to act more like PCs, so why not just make them into PCs? Bah, it's probably a completely unnecessary evolution of gaming devices when we have freedom to buy quality PCs right now.