New Console Generation Brings Fear

[AzrealMaximillion]

May the weak perish swiftly.
http://www.dabok.nl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/wii_1.jpg

Obvious troll is extremely obvious.

OT: This has a wait and see feel to me. Could it go wrong?: yes. Will it?: Only God knows.

Not really trolling The Wii needs to go away in concept. Never again should a company base their product on a single gimmicky function and then let quality control of games plummet to appease a target demographic. A demographic that has been shown to not be repeat customers.

F and U to you.

I like that gimmick. And not every games are based on it. Besides Metroid is much better with it than without. The same for the combat style in Skyward Sword.
Saying you want to go exstint just because you don't like it, it's very fascist like.

Besides, Wii + PC is the best combination. I can play FPS and some games that are not on the Wii on the PC. And I can play the awesome Nintendo exclusives on the Wii, plus tennis games, it's way better with tht controls than standart ones.

It was a gimmick that was horribly implemented and very rarely used by Nintendo themselves (seriously why even have the gimmick if you're not going to use it well in your own flagship titles?). As well as a gimmick that essentially fueled shovelware beyond belief. There's no excuse for Nintendo's lack of quality control there. None.

And I don't think you know what the word fascist means. Me saying I don't want a company to build a console based almost entirely on giving up technical power for a single gimmick is not a fascist statement. Not even close. You have to admit, the lack of support for the 3rd party developers was pretty disgusting this gen by Nintendo.

That's what I don't want to see next gen:
1.Console based on a single gimmick
2.Console essentially ditching the gimmick themselves
3.Quality Control being non-existant
4.Basically ignoring 3rd party developers
5.Ignoring your customer base for another demographic

Your argument didn't really state why the Wii's business model for video game consoles to follow should stay. It was all opinion based on your experience. I've had friends personally say that Skyward Sword's combat was hampered by the motion controls for them. Likewise with the Metroid games. That's all subjective though. What I'm talking about the business concept that the Wii was based on. It lost Nintendo money for the first time in 30 years because sales just stopped dead. It lost interest due to a lack of games that people who game as a pastime wanted.

For example: Xenoblade Chronicles is getting released in NA this year. This is also supposed to be the year that the Wii U drops. Kind of late to be releasing games that would've done well with more "core" gamers on the Wii.
It's decisions like that the industry should avoid next gen.

 

[Lunar Templar]

May the weak perish swiftly.
http://www.dabok.nl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/03/wii_1.jpg

I thought Wii had something, man!

it did, a profit out of the gate XD

 

[ResonanceSD]

GTX 680 benchmarks and reviews released today. Guess how much the PC gamer market gives a damn about consoles finally improving specs?

Did you guess "not even slightly"? well you're correct!

I give a damn and here's why: I bought this PC 8 years ago and I can still run the latest games on it, thanks to developers making their games cross-platform. If it weren't for consoles being a limiting factor I would have had to fork out for a whole new PC by now.

Whether you (plural) care or not is irrelevant, it will still affect you. The new console generation means that games will no longer be limited by this generation's hardware. So if you can afford the stupidly high prices of top-of-the-line graphics cards, such as the GTX 680, then this should be a cause for celebration because games will be able to make use of that extra power.
If you're like me, however, and can't afford to upgrade your system any time soon then the new generation of consoles are indeed something to fear, even as a PC gamer.

Skyrim/minecraft HD texture packs, Dehr HD textures, metro 2033, crysis, etc

We already have mutiple games which, and here's the key, don't take their lead from consoles

 

[RandV80]

Yes I also find great satisfaction in this trend. As a 30 year old life long time gamer, I find this current 'hardcore' console generation (I don't play it a lot but I'm fine with my Wii) has left me alienated, but for the last couple of years Steam and the indy scene on PC has really started to bring me pick. Further more, I can't help but feel the main console crowd have become a bunch of self entitled little pricks, so there'll be some amount of satisfaction watching what happened to me happen to them.

 

[carpathic]

Seeing as how so many devs WANT:
Always on DRM
Online Passes
DLC that should have been in the damn game
Digital only distribution - with no price cut to match
ect
ect

I'll probably end up skipping the Xbox720/PS4/WiiU2 if that crap happens.

Gaming is a HOBBY, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be treated like a criminal by companies that want MY money.

Screw them.

This epitomizes my views precisely. Digital distribution is just another attempt to push more costs onto the computer.

And I agree, I am not a thief and I certainly will not pay for the privilege of being treated as though I am one.

 

[userwhoquitthesite]

Someone explain to me why we need a new console generation.
Ya know, besides greedy corporate bullshit

 

[Tanakh]

Worst part is it's true. To some point. Think about anything you loved or played as a kid. Think about all that fun time playing it. Go back and play it and compare it to everything nowadays. You will lie to yourself. No matter how good or bad that game was if it is, to you, the greatest game ever made then nothing in the world will change that. You will lie to yourself to convince yourself it is something amazing when in reality it usually isn't that good. Like looking back at the "best" years of your life. You will think they were amazing and grand but in reality they were probably just mediocre and nothing to go wild about.

Doubtful, I have been gaming since the 80's and I do think there were some amazing games back then for historic reasons, but do I think taken out of context DOOM ise better than Serious Sam 3 or even Gears of War? Not really. I think some games like ME 3 could learn about endings from Star Ocean or Chrono Trigger; i also think SC II > SC and that PvP online is amazing so YMMV. And the best year of your life is always the current one IMO, past is only a memory and future is yet to happen so...

As for Morrowind VS Skyrim... well, first Skyrim >> Oblivion, i don't think anyone can argue there, but as for Morrowind, with both games from stock on day one it might be better (still doubtful, Morrowind combat was painful IMO), but with the current modded Skyrim VS Morrowind GOTY + mods that is simply not true for me, want epic fights? Install 1 mod, want massive battles based on the civil war? install a mod, want more magic based on crafting? amazing ambient sounds? interesting fauna over the land? ... you know what i am going to say.

 

[Sylveria]

Yep can't wait for the next console cycle. $80 games with 5 year dev times and digital distribution only so it takes me 3 days to download a 30gb game onto my console hard disk which fills up way too fast. Sprinkle all that with even more locked-away, on-disc, Day-1 DLC and we have a bright future to look forward to.

 

[ablac]

The indie scene on PC is flourishing, let the consoles burn for all I care. Then all those delicious exclusives can be enjoyed by a greater audience and won't be held back by archaic hardware.

Take consolles out of the equation and a lot of the games you enjoy simply wouldnt get made.

 

[ablac]

Someone explain to me why we need a new console generation.
Ya know, besides greedy corporate bullshit

The current console generation is technically identical now as to when it began 7 years ago. All computers go out of date and now the age is starting to show.

 

[ablac]

One pertinent example is Cthulhu Saves The World, which managed to sell more in one week on Steam than it did in one year on the Xbox Live Indie Marketplace.

I'd argue that this might be due to the Indie marketplace being unavailable outside NA.

It's there in the UK, I dunno if it's different in NA but in the UK it's fucking impossible to find, but it is there.

Indie market doesnt get that much press and considering most of it is absolute trash most people tend to not bother with it. It could have been great but is absolutely full of knock off versions of popular games and everythnig else is pretty much abysmal.

 

[ablac]

The indie scene on PC is flourishing, let the consoles burn for all I care. Then all those delicious exclusives can be enjoyed by a greater audience and won't be held back by archaic hardware.

Take consolles out of the equation and a lot of the games you enjoy simply wouldnt get made.

Do you have any evidence to back up your point?

This does sound stupid but no I dont because a pub/dev would never admit to a game being supported by sales on one platform. However I do think that, considering the sheer cost of games to make today, the PC alone could not support a large number of AAA and even some AA games. Whether you yourself specifically play those titles is ancillary as many PC gamers do. Therefore without the purchases on Console a PC title wouldnt be made because the game wouldnt exist or at least not nearly as much cash would be thrown at it. This is not to say the PC does not support games on its own, as it does with titles such as Tribes, im simply saying games we enjoy wouldnt be around, at least as good as they are and numerous as they are.

 

[ablac]

Double posted dont know why sorry about this filler.

 

[Therumancer]

[

Do you have any experience in the gaming industry at all? Or any experience with 3D modeling, texturing or light work? Because you're way off the mark here. More work = more time = longer development cycle(or more staff) = more wages = larger budget. It's really that simple. I'd suggest you give this [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/columns/experienced-points/9331-The-Big-Cost-of-Small-Places] a read.

Over the years there have been many articles and such talking about the game business in the interests of removing a lot of mystery from it. IGN, various magazines like game informer, and similar things. Back when we saw a coordinated price hike with the average price of games going from $50 to $60 there was a lot of talk and exposes involved in the pay people get.

I bring up things like the various toolboxes and such because there have been cases where articles and "whistleblowers" have gone off about that at great length, and even gone so far as to explain exactly why so many first and third person shooters play almost identically and things like the same system of cover based shooting recur indefinatly... it's from shared "insert your own skins and storyline" development frameworks that merely wind up being tweaked rather than the developers creating their own engines from scratch which used to be a far more common occurance.

I understand there are other opinions, and even damage control from the industry, I mean there are decent numbers of people now going off about cartel behavior, and sheer laziness in derivitive design, not to mention the pure greed that is destroying the entire process (ie when it goes from making a profit, to putting maximized profit ahead of everything else, including the integrity of the games and the medium itself).

Right now there is a dividing line between those who work for, or with the industry, and those who effectively turn on the industry or act as watchdogs on it. I can see how it's easy for a lot of people who know those in the industry who deal with them as individuals and tend to see a bunch of nice guys (or at least positive professional aquaintences) to have that color their opinions.

Do some searches for things like "the truth behind Starcraft 2's 14 year dev cycle" or "why Final Fantasy VII really couldn't be remade today" and you'll find some pretty shocking counterpoints if those articles are still up, and really there are tons of similar ones.

I understand why you think what you do, I just happen to disagree with it, as I am siding with other sources that seem to make considerably more sense and better match what we're going on. It's a position I've held for a long time now based on what I've run into.

Fundementally what graphics technology means is that you have a better set of tools to build with, and typically the process becomes more streamlined with each iteration. This is why it was a big deal when the toolbox for creating stuff for the "PS3" was such a huge mess, as it was hard to work with where the PS-2 and 360 were compsritively easy to work with (in a general sense, not just graphics). You can for example show the picture your "drawing" in higher resolution, work with more colors, or expand it in three dimensions to include a shadow following on the ground or whatever. Games generally stick to the same development cycles where people actually work on them, 2-4 years in many cases though some are still going to be popped out every year, in the end it comes down to the guys doing the games deciding they want increasingly larger amounts of money, and publishers paying that to the devs which in turn leads to them needing to make more money, especially as they set increasing higher goals for the amount of profit they want to make on a title. Giving a guy a better paint brush doesn't mean it takes him longer to paint.

In short, while a lot of industry supporters don't like it, don't forget that IGN did run articles like "why game developrs drive Ferraris", which seemed to cause some blowback from the guys who support them as it was not a flattering picture of the game industry as a whole and it's "hand to mouth" claims, it did however happen to match what a lot of people had been saying for years and years.

 

[theultimateend]

Seeing as how so many devs WANT:
Always on DRM
Online Passes
DLC that should have been in the damn game
Digital only distribution - with no price cut to match
ect
ect

I'll probably end up skipping the Xbox720/PS4/WiiU2 if that crap happens.

Gaming is a HOBBY, and I'll be damned if I'm going to be treated like a criminal by companies that want MY money.

Screw them.

I do agree that the rate I buy games and consoles has dropped at the same rate as companies have started adding all this nonsense .

it seems like they are their own worst enemies, frankly.

Yay! Let the elitism and mindless hatred begiiiiiin! Wooooo!

Maybe if P.C. elitists want to be called "the master race" they should start acting like one instead of 13-year-old fanboys who fly into a fit of rage every time someone mentions the world "console".

Yeah, I know the hardware is better. I own one. It's pretty sweet. It doesn't make console games invalid and it certainly doesn't make every console owner a retard. Rrrrrr.....

I might be mistaken but most people I interact with use the master race line as a joke.

But I wouldn't be surprised if some people take it seriously.

Some people think Chuck Norris jokes are because he's cool, irony just doesn't pick up on some radars.

 

[Buizel91]

My worry is about what was enunciated at the beginning of the article: the fact that publishers are gonna take even less risks. They're already cutting off and dumbing down the market a lot as of now. I can't see that with a good eye

Yet another reason for PC gaming =D

"Our market isn't *completely* full of homogenized crap"
-unlikely marketing tag for Steam

Guys, this is not a console vs PC thread, each has their advantages and disadvantages without who saying christianity is better than scientology.

^Thank You.

I don't care if a new Graphics Card came out today, i don't care if it will be obsolete in a month, and i don't care if anyone thinks consoles are holding back the PC community (Didums, get over it all of you!) All i care about is enjoying the games i buy! And ignoring the ones i don't have any interest in!

OT: Good, i'm glad, however i'm primarily an Xbox gamer and Microsoft have said there wont be a new Xbox any time soon...We will have to wait and see.

Hopefully the new gen will begin in a year or 2 ^^

 

[Treblaine]

*Comes into thread expecting PC Gaming circle jerk* Never change, PC Gamers...

Knows someone will call a resounding call for a change in the status quo of console mediocrity dominance a "PC Gaming circle jerk".

*Knows that someone will call standardied platform which allows the market to function in any way shape or form by having a defined number of people at a defined level of power "console mediocrity"

You really like digging that hole, don't you?

"allows the market to function in any way shape or form"

Are you honestly arrogant enough to say that PC gaming and Mobile-phone gaming doesn't function in 'any way, shape or form' because it doesn't have "standardied platform at a defined level of power"

Because PC gaming is very real and very lucrative.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/annual-pc-market-worth-11bn/013027

And not jsut PC gaming, iOS, iPhone and Android phones have a burgeoning games marketplace to spite the hugely varied and open source (android) hardware specs.

I don't know if it's ignorance on your part or denialism.

 

[ablac]

This does sound stupid but no I dont because a pub/dev would never admit to a game being supported by sales on one platform. However I do think that, considering the sheer cost of games to make today, the PC alone could not support a large number of AAA and even some AA games. Whether you yourself specifically play those titles is ancillary as many PC gamers do. Therefore without the purchases on Console a PC title wouldnt be made because the game wouldnt exist or at least not nearly as much cash would be thrown at it. This is not to say the PC does not support games on its own, as it does with titles such as Tribes, im simply saying games we enjoy wouldnt be around, at least as good as they are and numerous as they are.

http://www.worldometers.info/computers/

This says that there are over 1 billion PC's in use in 2008 and that will have grown quite a bit since then.

Steam has 4 million active users nearly all the time and over 40 million active user accounts, which shows that PCs could support those games seeing as there are many gamers not on steam.

Sheer cost, let's take that myth apart.

1# Developers set their own budgets, if you don't have the cash then cut some things, don't do such shiny graphics, people won't mind.

2# Going on PC only would be cheaper as you only have 1 platform to develop for.

3# Things like crowd funding, kickstarter etc happen on PC which enable projects like FTL to take place which couldn't happen on consoles.

You say most of the cash comes from consoles, if you actually did some looking you will find that much more money is spent by PC gamers, profit margins are much higher on PC gamers support developers more than on consoles.

Let's look at a few games

Minecraft: 5.3 million sales and counting

http://www.pcgamer.com/2011/07/20/cthulhu-saves-the-world-pc-sales-smash-xbox-live/

"Cthulhu Saves The World PC sales smash Xbox Live"

Cthulhu Saves the World and the superbly named Breath of Death VII have made more in less than a week on Steam than they did in more than a year on Xbox Live,

http://www.overclock.net/a/blizzard-held-a-press-conference-e3-55-gross-profit-margin-of-wow

Blizzard say you make 60% profit on digital and 20% profit on discs, that shows that PC gaming is more profitable than consoles as consoles are disc dominated and PC is mostly digital.

http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/97705-pc-gaming-vs-consoles-the-infographic

This article shows how PC overtook consoles on revenue in 2010 and most likely ignores steam which doesn't reveal sales figures.

I cant be bothered to do research because im lazy like that and sorry. I will ask one thing though. How come the pc market gets the worst deal when it comes to multi platform games (normally) and is viewed as an afterthought with games releasing later and bad ports and most of the fanfair being on the console version? Id say its because its a significantly less valuable market. at least to these games. I never said it couldnt and im going to adapt my point to say that the main fanfare is around console and thus i believe most games are made for console and then pc as an afterthought. If anything else was true then devs (not indie, its just easier for them to release on their because its more direct with consumers and steam is a much better distribution method for smaller indie titles. Seriously that is the only reason and I wish peolpe would realise that they are (for the most part) just as interested in profit as EA or Activision. Case in point Minecraft. Notch is a freaking multi millionaire yet didnt pay his staff for minecon and still charges a game which is nothing without mods made by the community and servers paid for by the community at an extortionate 20 euro. A game which made him what he is. To top it all of the majority of the content in the later stages were simply adapted mods.) would make PC the big platform to work for rather than fight over console exclusives and give more attention to the console versions of games. The kickstater stuff happens on computers but not on pc gaming. Console gamers can donate too plus thats a small amount of money compared to what I was describing. Of course PC gamers spend more. They can afford to be PC gamers. It aint cheap. and on the indie games stuff for xbox. It is a great idea with some great titles. However it is handled poorly. It gets no attention and is hidden away. The majority of the stuff on there is trash at the moment because its full of knock offs and simply poor titles. Because of this it is avoided and never really checked out. Because of this no good titles go on because its not worth doing. See the cycle. Plus Cthulu saved the world suffered from some other company having its fans downvote the game to relagate it away from their game as it was a competitor. PLus the games had worked up a lot of steam and got coverage from people such as Total Biscuit. Because of the wider indie market on pc, pc gamers are more willing to give these things ago whilst poor handling has left these things out of console gamers eyes. Most dont even hear about them. This is getting over blown and I should have stopped ages ago but my point ultimately is this. If pc gaming was indeed the bigger market then why is it not treated as such? I dont want to make a fight over this because division is bad for gamers when the real enemy (pubs/devs legislators ect who mistreat us) gets away while we argue but you did say let em die and I wont take that lying down. Cooperation not division.

 

[Treblaine]

Maybe if P.C. elitists want to be called "the master race" they should start acting like one instead of 13-year-old fanboys who fly into a fit of rage every time someone mentions the world "console".

I dunno man, PC gamers seem to consistently act amost exactly like the last group of people who called themselves the "Master race", if you know what I mean.

Godwin's Law!

PC gamers are absolutely nothing like those sort, except that they are hated by console gamers almost as much as a reasonable person would hate the Nazis.

 

[Danny91]

Breaking News: Things changing frightens and angers people.

More at 11.