New Man dropped: meet the "Sigma" male

The Rogue Wolf

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...because being an Alpha equates you to a Wolf, and wolves are strong and powerful!!
The thing is that the whole "alpha of the pack" thing isn't how wolves really work; it came from a study of two packs in captivity, and follow-up studies were riddled with confirmation bias. (The author has since recanted.) Wolf packs in the wild are extended families.

So this is just faulty methodology built on a foundation of faulty methodology!
 
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happyninja42

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The thing is that the whole "alpha of the pack" thing isn't how wolves really work; it came from a study of two packs in captivity, and follow-up studies were riddled with confirmation bias. (The author has since recanted.) Wolf packs in the wild are extended families.

So this is just faulty methodology built on a foundation of faulty methodology!
I know it's not real, the fact that something isn't true, has never stopped humans from modeling their life on beliefs founded in false foundations. Just look at all of religion. I mean your name alone is an example of it. You've adopted the trappings of the wolf in name, and thumbnail. It's just male posturing, but THEY think it means something, and matters, so it impacts how they view the world.

I never once said it was true, and that has, in fact, already been pointed out, and I responded to it stating I know it's not real. But again, being true, and even being demonstrably false, has never stopped humanity from believing something stupid anyway.
 

Gordon_4

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I know it's not real, the fact that something isn't true, has never stopped humans from modeling their life on beliefs founded in false foundations. Just look at all of religion. I mean your name alone is an example of it. You've adopted the trappings of the wolf in name, and thumbnail. It's just male posturing, but THEY think it means something, and matters, so it impacts how they view the world.

I never once said it was true, and that has, in fact, already been pointed out, and I responded to it stating I know it's not real. But again, being true, and even being demonstrably false, has never stopped humanity from believing something stupid anyway.
See also, Holocaust Denial.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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I never once said it was true, and that has, in fact, already been pointed out, and I responded to it stating I know it's not real. But again, being true, and even being demonstrably false, has never stopped humanity from believing something stupid anyway.
My post wasn't meant to "come at you"; I was just pointing out where the whole thing was wrong at the core- I had no intention to imply that you agreed with or promoted it. I just didn't see the other posts.
 

Thaluikhain

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I think the bue<=>red pill analogy is absolutely hilarious, mainly because it was made by then closeted transwomen and taking the red pill was meant to symbolize admitting to yourself that you are trans, yet the people that use it are generally men for their weird macho culture and to be honest they're also generally very diluted from reality and kinda dumb TBH.
The analogy works for any big social issue people don't want to see. People have said it represents capitalism, or the patriarchy, and it works fine for either of those. Not for the reactionary embarrassments who've co-opted the analogy, of course.

It's honestly pretty amazing that it's spawned such a large community of exactly the opposite of what the movie was meant to represent that are exactly what the movie would consider blue-pilled.
It's somewhat ironic, perhaps, but not surprising.

I honestly just keep filtering this through Patricia Briggs' werewolf mythology about pack structure from her novels.
Alpha and Omega, or Mercy Thompson? Despite being set in the same universe, the Alphas in the latter are much more insufferable, I find.

There is a large number of men that feel awkward and like they don't fit in. Having a label to give themselves that allows them to set themselves over others gives them comfort and gives them permission to feel like they don't fit in because they are better then others. The male ego is rather fragile while at the same time insisting its not fragile since that would make it less manly.
Eh, partly I think it's because they are convinced there are innately superior by virtue of existing (like the everyman loser character in half of every movie ever that gets to be a hero with a devoted conventionally attractive love interest with no personality), and reality keeps telling them they aren't, or worse, that effort would be required.

Not a million miles away from people claiming inherent Aryan superiority, it's just the Jews/whoever keeping them down.
 

happyninja42

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Alpha and Omega, or Mercy Thompson? Despite being set in the same universe, the Alphas in the latter are much more insufferable, I find.
Both really, as they are same universe. I stopped reading around...I forget the name of the book, but I think it was like 2 books after the Fey just decapitated that senator or whatever in public, and broke all political ties. I vaguely recall Mercy going to a Native American reservation about some Coyote stuff? That was the last one. I had a hard time stomaching Mercy, she was just so insufferable. I liked the pack she was tied to, just her, not so much.

Frankly Patricia's 2 series are basically same premise. Super violent Alpha, in love with a woman who Just So Happens to not be mystically compelled to obey orders from the wolf pack structure, and is in a position to call out all the big scary wolves in a chiding tone, because girl power or whatever, and everyone just falls all over them. In the case of Anna the Omega, quite literally fall at her feet in worship. Plus I wasn't a huge fan of the fact that both female protags were rape victims, though I do think her portrayal of some of the aftermath, the emotional damage when it came to Mercy, was done pretty well. It felt ugly and real in it's presentation. Like I genuinely felt "ok yeah, she's pretty fucked up from what happened, I buy that. This feels like real trauma." But yeah, I suspect, that she's perhaps an abuse survivor herself, given how it's such a key part of both her main characters, and her descriptions of it, the effects feel....experienced. But, it still makes for some repetitive plots, that I got tired of. Which sucks because I REALLY liked her work for a while there. Like I REALLY enjoyed her mystical pack structure, and their mystic powers and how they were represented, so much so, that I firmly believe she used to play Werewolf: the Apocalypse and/or Forsaken, given how similar the pack magic is to gifts in those game lines.

But then her writing just kind of ...lost me. I dunno. I might try out some of the books I'm sure she's written since I stopped, but I'll probably never pick up the Mercy series again. If she would just remove mercy, and let me have a story about that pack, I'd be thrilled. The Alpha/Omega series, was fine as it was for the most part, Anna wasn't anywhere near as annoying as Mercy, despite having the same archetype.

Yeah the constant posturing of the dominant wolves could get tiresome, given how much page time would be devoted to dealing with it. I'd like to see less of that, and just get to the story. But usually that was only a problem when new wolves were introduced, so they had to have a shaking down of the pecking order. I get it, the reason for it, but yeah, not something I care to read book after book. That adds up to a lot of hours of my life listening to audiobooks about, well, literally alpha dudebro type people, flexing and posturing. *shrugs*
 

Thaluikhain

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Both really, as they are same universe. I stopped reading around...I forget the name of the book, but I think it was like 2 books after the Fey just decapitated that senator or whatever in public, and broke all political ties. I vaguely recall Mercy going to a Native American reservation about some Coyote stuff? That was the last one. I had a hard time stomaching Mercy, she was just so insufferable. I liked the pack she was tied to, just her, not so much.

Frankly Patricia's 2 series are basically same premise. Super violent Alpha, in love with a woman who Just So Happens to not be mystically compelled to obey orders from the wolf pack structure, and is in a position to call out all the big scary wolves in a chiding tone, because girl power or whatever, and everyone just falls all over them. In the case of Anna the Omega, quite literally fall at her feet in worship. Plus I wasn't a huge fan of the fact that both female protags were rape victims, though I do think her portrayal of some of the aftermath, the emotional damage when it came to Mercy, was done pretty well. It felt ugly and real in it's presentation. Like I genuinely felt "ok yeah, she's pretty fucked up from what happened, I buy that. This feels like real trauma." But yeah, I suspect, that she's perhaps an abuse survivor herself, given how it's such a key part of both her main characters, and her descriptions of it, the effects feel....experienced. But, it still makes for some repetitive plots, that I got tired of. Which sucks because I REALLY liked her work for a while there. Like I REALLY enjoyed her mystical pack structure, and their mystic powers and how they were represented, so much so, that I firmly believe she used to play Werewolf: the Apocalypse and/or Forsaken, given how similar the pack magic is to gifts in those game lines.

But then her writing just kind of ...lost me. I dunno. I might try out some of the books I'm sure she's written since I stopped, but I'll probably never pick up the Mercy series again. If she would just remove mercy, and let me have a story about that pack, I'd be thrilled. The Alpha/Omega series, was fine as it was for the most part, Anna wasn't anywhere near as annoying as Mercy, despite having the same archetype.

Yeah the constant posturing of the dominant wolves could get tiresome, given how much page time would be devoted to dealing with it. I'd like to see less of that, and just get to the story. But usually that was only a problem when new wolves were introduced, so they had to have a shaking down of the pecking order. I get it, the reason for it, but yeah, not something I care to read book after book. That adds up to a lot of hours of my life listening to audiobooks about, well, literally alpha dudebro type people, flexing and posturing. *shrugs*
Yeah, I think I gave up on the series at about the same point. Starts off decent, but there's issues and problems and meh and some of them get bigger as things go along.

For me, it's not just the tiresome blather about alpha male werewolves, it's also that it's the same tiresome blather in any number of werewolf series. It's become a rule that werewolves have to have the same alpha rubbish in half of every depiction.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Wait, so it goes Alpha, Beta, Delta, Gamma, not Alpha, Beta, Gamma, Delta?

Good thing I didn't respect the people behind this at all, or I'd be vaguely disappointed.
I figure the reason they're going with Sigma is because what's better than an A rank in a video game?

Is Omega the new term for Sub or something?

Not that there's anything wrong with that.
Oh, the rabbit hole for this is deep. Short form is that Alpha-Beta-Omega is a specific genre of typically M/M male pregnancy fan fiction. One that people have taken seriously enough to go to court over. Imagine explaining "knotting" to a judge.
The person who made this tweet also says this right afterward.

" Any real scientist would tell you the actual top of the dude hierarchy is trans men, swiftly followed by X-Men"

I think you need to change who you're following on Twitter.
Why?
 

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The analogy works for any big social issue people don't want to see. People have said it represents capitalism, or the patriarchy, and it works fine for either of those. Not for the reactionary embarrassments who've co-opted the analogy, of course.
The movie actually has a pretty good analogy for those people included within it, it's obviously not just the choosing of the blue pill, but the character Cypher, as in someone that's able to recognize and see that there are larger issues and maybe on some level see the truth, but rather than confronting them he chooses to go back into the fantasy because it's more comfortable than reality, which I think is pretty interesting, I should probably re-watch it since I haven't seen it in a long time, I was probably like 12 the last time I watched it.
Now who's coming up with theories? I guess that's a neat idea, but definitely an unintended consequence which the Wachowskis have confirmed. The movie already had a lot going on. Besides, the duo had no problem being "brothers" for years after they came up with it.
Well, of course it's a theory and the movie definitely works in a lot of levels, being cyberpunk fiction it can easily be read as a critique of the current economic system and the way in which we have to perform the role of office drone in order to survive and the red-pill could easily be an analogy for that, I think the reason why it works it's because it can be read in a lot of manners.

Art is up for interpretation, but no Word of God confirmation for you this time.
I don't think that matters, while it was definitely intended to mean different thing and most likely meant to be a critique of the economic system of exploitation under which we live, I mean since it's after all Cyberpunk and most Cyberpunk is about that, too many things in the movie also lend themselves to a trans reading, which is particularly relevant since again the two directors who were also the lead writers are tans and even if they were not out or even if they didn't know at the time it's likely they inserted a lot of their insecurities, after all feeling like you're trapped in a dream or a Matrix like fake reality is pretty common among trans people, so it's a bit disingenuous to claim that it's exclusively up to interpretation the fact that there's obviously something there even if it was subconscious on the part of the writers.

Now this is up for interpretation as well. Maybe the so-called rabbit hole leads to a gender-free utopia! Anyway, to elaborate on what I mean with "thus far been accurate" is that as a teenager I bought into all the nice slogans. "Just be yourself!" "Girls need no special treatment!" "There are no 'girl things' and 'guy things'!" and saw sexism as rather primitive and something I and all of my peers could easily just avoid. Innocent times, but none of it was true then and even less today. Though maybe... had I been a Sigma male instead. Hmm...
Hmmm, I mean sexism is primitive and dumb, but yeah it's pretty hard to avoid considering that we're constantly bombarded by media and culture that bombard us with sexist stereotypes, including what to wear and what to like all of which is pretty absurd, but to be fair reality is practically a joke considering how absurd it is.
 

Trunkage

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Oh, the rabbit hole for this is deep. Short form is that Alpha-Beta-Omega is a specific genre of typically M/M male pregnancy fan fiction. One that people have taken seriously enough to go to court over. Imagine explaining "knotting" to a judge.
If I can bring more awareness to the Omegaverse monstrosity to this website and everywhere, I'll feel like I've done my duty
 

Dalisclock

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I figure the reason they're going with Sigma is because what's better than an A rank in a video game?


Oh, the rabbit hole for this is deep. Short form is that Alpha-Beta-Omega is a specific genre of typically M/M male pregnancy fan fiction. One that people have taken seriously enough to go to court over. Imagine explaining "knotting" to a judge.
Why?
The sad thing is, I'm totally not shocked by this. It's just a really weird form of people taking shit way too fucking seriously.
 
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happyninja42

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Yeah, I think I gave up on the series at about the same point. Starts off decent, but there's issues and problems and meh and some of them get bigger as things go along.

For me, it's not just the tiresome blather about alpha male werewolves, it's also that it's the same tiresome blather in any number of werewolf series. It's become a rule that werewolves have to have the same alpha rubbish in half of every depiction.
I haven't read too many other werewolf genre series honestly, if you can recommend a few good ones, I'd like to check them out. But yes, the whole alpha/beta/gamma/etc stuff of the structure, can get tiresome. Like, I don't have a problem with the idea of "groups of individuals usually stratify themselves socially , along certain lines, making a heirarchy of sorts" because most social animals DO that. The way it's presented can be annoying though, if done poorly.
 

Thaluikhain

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I haven't read too many other werewolf genre series honestly, if you can recommend a few good ones, I'd like to check them out.
Erm....dunno about werewolf genre per se, but there's lots of urban fantasy/paranormal romance stories which have werewolves in them. There's Kate Locke's (or whatever he current pen name is) Immortal Empire Series, or Gail Carriger's Parasol Protectorate series. Both are alternative history books set in England, under Victoria, written by women living in the Americas, and have werewolves and vampires, (because if you have werewolves, you have to have vampires as well). Cliches everyone is seemingly obliged to use don't just apply to werewolves having alphas, of course.

The first is more serious trilogy and is set in "modern" times with an immortal Victoria, the latter more silly and spawned a zillion books of declining quality.

Ilona Andrews Kate Daniels series isn't so werewolfy, but there's assorted were-creatures in a major role in it. It's a paranormal romance, though, and there's a rule that those have to have a domineering man chasing a woman who doesn't want him.

Don't bother with the Southern Vampire series (that became the True Blood tv show). Don't bother with Anita Blake. Mortal Instruments is more or less passable, though.

Absolutely don't read Kelley Armstrong's Bitten. Just don't.
 

ObsidianJones

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Since everyone has to quote Gethsemani to post in this thread...

So straight talk: What's up with guys obsession with social hierarchies and always trying to find a way to justify actually being at the top, despite all evidence to the contrary?
Have you ever heard the expression. "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose"? This is it. To some people's minds, what good are your achievements if others aren't crushed by it?

Of course it's not just guys. This is the mentality of the mean girls in high school. Gender doesn't really enter into it. Those who had to wear clothing to show how their phenotype was particularly kind to them, or had to let everyone know that he or she could buy anything they wanted or have someone do it for them.

This Alpha -> Sigma Digivolution is the same exact Digivolution of B*tch -> Boss B*tch back in the day. Oddly enough, it's just a common trait of people who are so insecure that they NEED everyone to acknowledge how above they are from all other people, or their worlds' crumble from the one person who didn't sign on.

And it is my fervent hope that some of you reading this are going in your head.

"AlphaBro digivolve to... SIGMACHAD!!!"

~edit: Holy Hell, are we censored now?! I feel like I'm on tv!

We'll be back with more on this topic, right after the break!
 

happyninja42

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Since everyone has to quote Gethsemani to post in this thread...



Have you ever heard the expression. "It is not enough merely to win; others must lose"? This is it. To some people's minds, what good are your achievements if others aren't crushed by it?

Of course it's not just guys. This is the mentality of the mean girls in high school. Gender doesn't really enter into it. Those who had to wear clothing to show how their phenotype was particularly kind to them, or had to let everyone know that he or she could buy anything they wanted or have someone do it for them.

This Alpha -> Sigma Digivolution is the same exact Digivolution of B*tch -> Boss B*tch back in the day. Oddly enough, it's just a common trait of people who are so insecure that they NEED everyone to acknowledge how above they are from all other people, or their worlds' crumble from the one person who didn't sign on.

And it is my fervent hope that some of you reading this are going in your head.

"AlphaBro digivolve to... SIGMACHAD!!!"

~edit: Holy Hell, are we censored now?! I feel like I'm on tv!

We'll be back with more on this topic, right after the break!
Yeah it's not really anything new, as far as behavior, it's more just, at least my take on it, is a new term for a very old behavioral trait. It's funny that you said Sigmachad, as my brain did go to a similar place, due to a Spiffing Brit video about how he made this ridiculously macho character in...I think Crusader Kings 3, that he called MegaChad. So to me, it's just The Chaddiest of Chads.