New Mass Effect "Moving Forward"
- Thread starter StewShearerOld
- Start date
Recommended Videos
Unless they somehow get back the skilled writers who left the company or refocus the ones they already have onto a single project, I don't see this being up to par. There may not be the gigantic talent vacuum that was TOR sucking away man-hours from other projects, but Bioware has lost too much of what made it special to ever make a product that compares with their earlier work, or even Mass Effect 1. Everything since EA bought them up has felt hollow and strangely unfinished, despite having plenty of money and much more manpower. I will always mourn the company they could have been.
I have to somewhat sheepishly admit that while I own Planescape: Torment (courtesy GOG), I've never actually found the time to play it yet. So I can't verify that what I'd like to see is reminiscent of it; it's mostly just what bugged me about what was (of the portions I saw) otherwise a pretty good RPG.Carnagath said:
As far as that list, yeah, I don't really expect to see it all, either; I'd be thrilled if it touched on half of it. I do think, however, that any new game's fate is really going to rest on its ability to create its own identity. Otherwise it's either going to spend too much time apologizing for the mistakes of its forebear, try to live up to it and disappoint, or both. The world and its fiction is large enough that neither has to be the case, with a little vision on the part of its developers.
But, seriously- wouldn't the adventures of a ship on the level of "Firefly", trying to make its way in the radically different post-Reaper universe, be something interesting? (Not suggesting to actually play off "Firefly"- just a ship with a crew of ten or so, rather than the size-of-a-small-town Normandy.)
Eh, I'm optimistic. Their universe is way too rich an interesting to leave under wraps, plus, y'know, EA. There was always going to be another one and what little they've said so far (new characters, most likely not a prequel, no military stuff, likely homosexual relationships, Frostbite engine) shouldn't warrant busting out the torches and pitchforks just yet.
Besides, they've all heard the complaints a million times now. They know by now to ignore them and focus on stuff that'll actually sell. That can only be a positive step.
Besides, they've all heard the complaints a million times now. They know by now to ignore them and focus on stuff that'll actually sell. That can only be a positive step.
Aside from the complaints of old I'm going off the reputation of E.A as a known publisher / developer.Kingjackl said:
Here is a link to a story about E.A with the headline " EA Makes Worst Company In America History, Wins Title For Second Year In A Row! "
http://consumerist.com/2013/04/09/ea-makes-worst-company-in-america-history-wins-title-for-second-year-in-a-row/
And just for good measure I'm adding a link that will contend as to what E.A's game / customer service quality is like for paying customers.
http://www.policymic.com/articles/29213/simcity-drm-always-online-mode-results-in-disaster-for-gamers
Now I could care less if you buy this game or not but please don't say I'm wrong for lighting this torch in light of the fact this " company " has a history of ruining video game sagas / series.
I know as a gamer that I'm supposed to hate this game before any information comes out on it because it is published by EA. Fact is, though, I've enjoyed every Bioware game I've played, and I've played every Bioware game since KOTOR. Yes, that includes The Old Republic, which I am very happily subscribed to. As long as Bioware makes games I enjoy, I'll play them. It's that simple. Oh, by the way, I didn't really enjoy the ending to ME3, but I felt they did a good job fixing things up with the Extended Cut, and still feel that the fans demanding the ending be changed were the definition of "entitled gamers". Also, the fact that people are still complaining about the ending a year and a half later is baffling to me.
People are complaining because Bioware / E.A won't let Mass Effect Die. I loved Mass Effect 1-2 however when I see any form of Mass Effect merchandise all it does is remind me of how bad Mass Effect 3 was ( and no I'm NOT referring to the end of Mass Effect 3 ). I could care less if they " fixed " the ending my first impression is the only one I needed for the game since my first impression can't come a second time around. But if your curious as to the reasons why people hate it watch these videos.thebobmaster said:
Now having said this if Bioware / E.A just let the whole Mass Effect series / saga collect dust people would stop talking about it. ( I know I would ). I will stop complaining the moment they stop making Mass Effect games / Merchandise. My complaints are of how I feel of the series as a whole. I don't care if you agree with me or not but don't belittle someones opinion just because you don't agree with it. Your opinion of Bioware being a good developer is just as valid as my opinion that they dropped the ball on Mass Effect 3.
Am I the only one who is looking forward to this!!!!!!
Take as long as you need Bioware I can wait.
They are gonna have a tough time topping the original 3 however they were masterpieces.
I'm looking forward to dragon age 3 as well
It's a good day for me.
Take as long as you need Bioware I can wait.
They are gonna have a tough time topping the original 3 however they were masterpieces.
I'm looking forward to dragon age 3 as well
It's a good day for me.
I'm very curious, but I guess we'll have to just wait and see. Hopefully, Bioware will get enough time to actually finish it instead of rushing it out (I mainly blame EA for that, but Bioware still shares some of the blame).
Well no matter what timeline they set the game in, it will always be plagued by the fact that Bioware can't write any more.
I'd love to have a list of suggestions for them so that if even one person on the writing team read even one of them the game would turn out better than it would have, given the current trend of Bioware games, but the funny thing is they're all too basic.
Okay Bioware listen the fuck up!
Number 1: Flowcharts. Seriously, that's not a joke. FLOWCHARTS! One for each character's development and one to keep track of the branching story paths
Number 2: Hold on I've already done this in the wrong order. So I mentioned Branching story path's in the last one, but shouldn't that be a given? Apparently not. In the Mass Effect trilogy proper the players were promised their choices would matter. None of them did. (Okay, whether or not you destroyed the Genophage data did, But Whoopty-Fucking-Shit)
So anyway new number one is make sure the choices you give the player actually matter.
Number 3: Okay, Character Development!. It's not something you take lightly. Here's a couple examples of bad character development. Garrus going from Dirty Harry in the first game, to Batman in the second game, to Michael Fucking Cara in the third one. And another bad example Jack going from Loner Survivalist Psychopath in 2 to overprotective mother hen in the third with bugger all in the intervening time. Or Liara going from Horny archeologist, to Stoic badass, to... NOTHING! because she never spoke to you about anything meaningful.
Characters are the most important part of any game, so we have to feel like they're personalities are constant growing things and not just a lump of interchangeable nonsensical parts that you can throw down our throats because "The Plot"
Number 4: The plot. It needs to make sense. It needs to hold up to scrutiny. It has to have something to do with it's self. The things we are asked to do as players should have some connection to the things the cutscenes are about. And... And this is very important so listen up. And this should not be achieved by simply telling us the things we are doing are related to the plot.
Number 5: Knowledge is half the battle, and contrary to popular belief Violence is not the other half. The other half is application of that knowledge. Translation. Walking into a room and shooting everything that moves is not the ultimate solution to every problem. How we behave in the talkie parts should effect how we need to behave in the gamey parts.
Number 6: Factions and allegiances. Applying a red number or a blue number to every decision we make may sound like a good idea (To someone who has recently drank a bottle of bleach and washed it down with a bullet to the brain) but it's not. Every situation should have multiple solutions with multiple tangible consequences. Hense why I mentioned Flowcharts first.
Because there is no paragon or renegade in the grand Scheme of things. My paragon Shepard shot Mordin in the back because of course the Krogans are going to wipe out the Salarians, Mordin was just too emotional to see it at the time. But in retarded bizarro logic world that is Mass Effect 3 I got BAD GUY POINTS! Muhuwhahahaha.
Number 6.5! Don't voice over the main protagonist!!!!!! Please! If you're going to let the player control the player's decision making but not their emotional state why fucking bother? When ever I pick the logical option, Which is denoted "Renegade" for a good reason I hate getting Jenifer Hale's Evil voice Making me feel like a dick.
Number 7: Learn how to write!!!!!!!!!
Beginning
Middle
End
Subplots
Character development
Foreshadowing
Exposition
Rational progression of themes.
No Deus Ex Machinas
Proper introductions to key elements
Restraint
NO MOTHERFUCKING RET-CONS! (Hence Flowcharts)
That's all really basic shit that you people DON'T UNDERSTAND
Writing is FAR MORE than just banter, and you don't even do that well anymore. Go back to the hero's journey, the last good game you wrote followed that to a Tee.
So follow these seven simple steps and you'll... uh... Well your brains will probably explode because you've already demonstrated clearly that you're too dumb to comprehend them.
Anyway you'll either get it, or you'll overload your brain to the point of stroke. Either way it's a win win for me.
I'd love to have a list of suggestions for them so that if even one person on the writing team read even one of them the game would turn out better than it would have, given the current trend of Bioware games, but the funny thing is they're all too basic.
Okay Bioware listen the fuck up!
Number 1: Flowcharts. Seriously, that's not a joke. FLOWCHARTS! One for each character's development and one to keep track of the branching story paths
Number 2: Hold on I've already done this in the wrong order. So I mentioned Branching story path's in the last one, but shouldn't that be a given? Apparently not. In the Mass Effect trilogy proper the players were promised their choices would matter. None of them did. (Okay, whether or not you destroyed the Genophage data did, But Whoopty-Fucking-Shit)
So anyway new number one is make sure the choices you give the player actually matter.
Number 3: Okay, Character Development!. It's not something you take lightly. Here's a couple examples of bad character development. Garrus going from Dirty Harry in the first game, to Batman in the second game, to Michael Fucking Cara in the third one. And another bad example Jack going from Loner Survivalist Psychopath in 2 to overprotective mother hen in the third with bugger all in the intervening time. Or Liara going from Horny archeologist, to Stoic badass, to... NOTHING! because she never spoke to you about anything meaningful.
Characters are the most important part of any game, so we have to feel like they're personalities are constant growing things and not just a lump of interchangeable nonsensical parts that you can throw down our throats because "The Plot"
Number 4: The plot. It needs to make sense. It needs to hold up to scrutiny. It has to have something to do with it's self. The things we are asked to do as players should have some connection to the things the cutscenes are about. And... And this is very important so listen up. And this should not be achieved by simply telling us the things we are doing are related to the plot.
Number 5: Knowledge is half the battle, and contrary to popular belief Violence is not the other half. The other half is application of that knowledge. Translation. Walking into a room and shooting everything that moves is not the ultimate solution to every problem. How we behave in the talkie parts should effect how we need to behave in the gamey parts.
Number 6: Factions and allegiances. Applying a red number or a blue number to every decision we make may sound like a good idea (To someone who has recently drank a bottle of bleach and washed it down with a bullet to the brain) but it's not. Every situation should have multiple solutions with multiple tangible consequences. Hense why I mentioned Flowcharts first.
Because there is no paragon or renegade in the grand Scheme of things. My paragon Shepard shot Mordin in the back because of course the Krogans are going to wipe out the Salarians, Mordin was just too emotional to see it at the time. But in retarded bizarro logic world that is Mass Effect 3 I got BAD GUY POINTS! Muhuwhahahaha.
Number 6.5! Don't voice over the main protagonist!!!!!! Please! If you're going to let the player control the player's decision making but not their emotional state why fucking bother? When ever I pick the logical option, Which is denoted "Renegade" for a good reason I hate getting Jenifer Hale's Evil voice Making me feel like a dick.
Number 7: Learn how to write!!!!!!!!!
Beginning
Middle
End
Subplots
Character development
Foreshadowing
Exposition
Rational progression of themes.
No Deus Ex Machinas
Proper introductions to key elements
Restraint
NO MOTHERFUCKING RET-CONS! (Hence Flowcharts)
That's all really basic shit that you people DON'T UNDERSTAND
Writing is FAR MORE than just banter, and you don't even do that well anymore. Go back to the hero's journey, the last good game you wrote followed that to a Tee.
So follow these seven simple steps and you'll... uh... Well your brains will probably explode because you've already demonstrated clearly that you're too dumb to comprehend them.
Anyway you'll either get it, or you'll overload your brain to the point of stroke. Either way it's a win win for me.
You're right. I was being a bit passive-aggressive over it. I admit that, and apologize. I didn't mean to imply that people were wrong for not enjoying it, if they had good reason to. You said you had a problem with the game as a whole. While I disagree, I do think you have the right to your opinion. Where I draw the line is when fans basically picket Bioware, sending them passive-aggressive messages (I know, pot, kettle, black) demanding that they change the ending to the ones the fans want. I'd feel the same way if people did it to the author of a book, or the director of a movie.Wesley Brannock said:
I've also gotten a bit defensive because there was a time when I was honestly worried about stating how I felt about Bioware/EA on here, because I'd get attacked by other Escapists as being ignorant, a sheeple, or "not a true gamer". Those experiences made me feel a bit less than willing to be polite, since no one was going to be polite to me.
If any of this reads like sarcasm, that is not the intent. I truly do apologize for seeming to attack you, or other people who legitimately disliked Mass Effect 3, because that wasn't the intent. My intent was to express my interest in this, while at the same time calling out people who seem to think they should ultimately control how the game is developed. Basically, I don't want to call out the hatedom, merely the Hate Dumb [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HateDumb].
You know, just what you said.Callate said:"Goose Laying Golden Eggs Slain; Owners In Consultancy With Creators of Turducken Regarding Re-Assembly"
Okay, a little harsh perhaps. But if they've actually learned something from the uproar, my humble suggestion would be:
1. Self-contained game, not the first of a trilogy.
2. More personal and inter-personal plot arc, rather than another "fate of the universe" thread.
3. Resist the impulse to give every surviving character from the earlier games a walk-on.
4. Ditch the military aspect; work with characters who are less beholden to a central authority.
5. Work on creating more situations that involve solutions other than shooting your way out.
6. Don't piss off the fanbase even more by suggesting a problem that was clearly and cleanly resolved in the earlier games, especially one that characters sacrificed their lives to resolve, is returned and/or has dangling threads.
7. Use this as an opportunity to develop or flesh out world lore in ways besides virtual encyclopedia entries.
8. Mineral collection is busy-work, and pretty much always has been. Either find a way to make it more interesting, or drop it all together.
9. Try not to punish players for not playing all-the-way Paragon or all-the-way Renegade. Kind-hearted people sometimes have to make tough decisions, and rough, play-by-their-own rules types still have their moments of tenderness. It's called "role-playing".
10. Some people have no interest in multiplayer. Be okay with this.
'Kay, Bioware? Call me.
If Mass Effect 4: A New Hope turns out to be this, I think I'll be perfectly fine with the game.
I see your point it can sometimes be difficult to tell the difference between a person not satisfied with a product and a " troll ". I also accept your apology I understand that the gaming community is full of " trolls " no matter which side of an argument you take. In my view it's perfectly healthy and normal to disagree with a differing point of view but to at least be civil about it. That is the reason for my reply.thebobmaster said:
Yeah...I think we both are.kiwi_poo said:
Honestly, at this point I'm just going to get Witcher 3 and Metal Gear Solid 5 instead of ME 4 or DA 3. IF, and boy is it a big if, they somehow manage to make a game that doesn't cause the fandom to spontaneously combust I might consider picking them up...but I'm not going to hold my breath at this point.
Instead, as i said, I'm going to go pick up the next witcher game and the next Metal Gear given they both look awesome.
By "take a dump" you mean reward with cupcakes, don't cha? That is how angry fans react now, by offering to pay more for better endings, buying all DLC (even the on-disc stuff), and sending cupcakes.Machine Man 1992 said:
Because nothing says "you screwed up" like money and pastries.
And it was that same attitude that gave use the Citadel DLC, which turned a game based around rallying the disparate peoples of the galaxy to stop a major existential threat, into a goddamned slice of life anime.Icehearted said:
I need a freaking drink.
after finishing the Citadel DLC, I was 100% on board for more. seriously!
if anything Bioware has shown that Mass Effect would probably work on a smaller scale that still remains focused on a small space crew and their relationships developing throughout various adventures...yes reminded me of Firefly just a bit, but either way I'm looking forward to more
if anything Bioware has shown that Mass Effect would probably work on a smaller scale that still remains focused on a small space crew and their relationships developing throughout various adventures...yes reminded me of Firefly just a bit, but either way I'm looking forward to more