New Overwatch Hero Is a Response to Body-Type Diversity Criticism

[inmunitas]

I have seen the news a long time ago mate. Which is why if you looked at my posting history you would have seen that I am contemplating LEAVING. But scrolling up a bit is too hard isnt it? And no "dudebros" aren't GG. GG is nothing more than 2k people at the most. And bleeding people considering that they have started attacking some of the few women that still stood up for them. It is the worst of the gaming community and I still wonder why Archon let them here, when FUCKING 4CHAN kicked them out.

Also drop the kek, this isnt WoW or Blizzard forums.

4chan didn't "kick them out" though, they left on their own accord, you can't "ban people" from 4chan, it's anonymous. 4chan is owned by Christopher "moot" Poole, whom GG would describe as "SJW", as he's been a speaker at XOXO fest.

 

[Demagogue]

Definitely not the play style for me, but an interesting take on things. I hate the hair though... outrageous hair colors are something that is really hard to pull off, (and most don't). Her head seems a little small for the body too, but that could just be a Monday morning thing.

Considering all the commotion, I wonder if it would have been better if Blizzard added her but didn't do the press release saying "We added her to satisfy feedback from X people". Like just add her and let people enjoy the diversity without it becoming a thing people point at saying "PANDERING" or "INCLUSION" just let her be her.

 

[TravelerSF]

Umm... But when it comes to professional writers, haven't there always been orders? They could come from the writers, the creative directors, team leaders, ect. Just because artists are given guidelines on what kind of characters the game should have, that doesn't mean their artistic freedom and spirit have been crushed. Don't downplay professional artist by saying that they're so pampered that they can't express themselves unless given unlimited freedom.

And heaven forbid if a company actually aims to create something their audience likes and adjusts their games based on that feedback. I mean that's just unheard of, right?

 

[infinity_turtles]

I more or less like the character design, but I'll admit that I feel a bit beaten overhead with the fact that it's supposed to be diverse. Not so much by Blizzard, but by the internet at large, so that's hardly their fault. Aside from that, the only thing I have a problem with is that I feel that the biceps are bit too big compared to her shoulders, but that's only really noticeable in the close-ups and aren't something I'd ever notice while playing the game. Still, could probably due with bulking up said shoulders a little bit.

 

[Pete Oddly]

The thing I worry about is this: The entities behind implementing the diversely representative range of characters a growing number of gamers want are big, soulless companies who can only empathize with real humans via committees (and then, usually not very well).

As such, continued calls for diversity run the risk of compelling companies to make their games more diverse not for the sake of providing interesting, compelling characters and narratives, but for the sake of appeasing what they see as just another faceless demographic.

It's an interesting, and ultimately frustrating, catch 22: If people don't speak up, we'll barely get anything new or interesting, but if they speak up too loudly, the companies will just toss in disingenuous tolken efforts in order to shut people up.

 

[The Lunatic]

I find it rather amusing that when a character is designed to be "sexy" in order to pander to a certain audience, people cry about how "Offensive" and "Demeaning" a character is.

Yet, when a character comes out pandering to a different audience, they're singing the praises.

Likewise when these roles are reversed.

I think it's more of a "Stop pandering to anyone that isn't me" attitude, honestly.

 

[The Lunatic]

Well, there's a bit of difference between criticizing a character's design because you find it offensive or demeaning, and criticizing a character's design because "pandering checklists!" The former seems to actually have a problem with the design itself, not simply that it was made to pander to a certain group of people, while the latter seems to have the attitude you bring up: "stop pandering to anyone that isn't me," especially if it's one of those people who like diversity and such.

Odd, I frequently see people complaining about "immature 14 year olds" when speaking about "Sexy" characters.

What you're saying doesn't seem to match what actually happens.

Added to that, there have been people in this thread who've criticised the design. I myself find it a boring stereotype which no originality.

No criticism of anyone to who it may be to pandering there!

 

[Erttheking]

I find it rather amusing that when a character is designed to be "sexy" in order to pander to a certain audience, people cry about how "Offensive" and "Demeaning" a character is.

Yet, when a character comes out pandering to a different audience, they're singing the praises.

Likewise when these roles are reversed.

I think it's more of a "Stop pandering to anyone that isn't me" attitude, honestly.

That argument only works if people said the other characters should be taken out of the game and only characters like Zarya should be made, and I haven't seen anyone here make that argument. Heck I like the other characters. I just want more choice.

 

[The Lunatic]

That argument only works if people said the other characters should be taken out of the game and only characters like Zarya should be made, and I haven't seen anyone here make that argument. Heck I like the other characters. I just want more choice.

You mean like people were with Widowmaker?

You mean, the kind of reactions that spawned this "Response" in the first place?

Are we just going to pretend that didn't happen?

And if you're all for more choice, then surely, we should have characters even more sexualised than Widowmaker to appeal more to that audience and allow for more choice.

 

[Erttheking]

That argument only works if people said the other characters should be taken out of the game and only characters like Zarya should be made, and I haven't seen anyone here make that argument. Heck I like the other characters. I just want more choice.

You mean like people were with Widowmaker?

You mean, the kind of reactions that spawned this "Response" in the first place?

Are we just going to pretend that didn't happen?

And if you're all for more choice, then surely, we should have characters even more sexualised than Widowmaker to appeal more to that audience and allow for more choice.

Were the criticisms of how they didn't like her our how she should be removed from the game and all characters like her should never be made ever? Because that's the difference between night and day. You know how you said you don't like Zarya because she's a tired and boring sterotype? That's why me and a lot of other people don't like Widowmaker. She's a tired and boring stereotype, the sexy French lady.

So long as the ratio is balanced I'd be ok with that. Preferably with some sexualized male characters to. I'm not really feeling it with the shirtless guy, we can do better than that. Really Jojo's Bizare Adventure it up.

 

[ryukage_sama]

They sound like positive additions to their roster, which was achieved through vocal criticism without resorting to death threats.

I find nothing wrong with developers responding to constructive criticism. Sequels, patches, DLC and new IPs are all built to varying degrees on player and potential customer feedback. Acting as though developers are required to remain secluded like a jury during development lest they taint their artistic integrity is naive. The ought not incorporate non-working parts, but changing a game that hasn't been released yet in response to criticism of promotional materials is just healthy communication.

 

[Grahav]

B-b-b-but the artistic vision!

Won't somebody please think of the artistic visions being violated by all this diversity?

True artistic vision and creative freedom is the first casualty of a culture war.

Right now we are at the stage of the conflict where each side has dug their trenches and written out a checklist of what they do and don't find acceptable. They then go about trying to destroy, ruin or sling shit at anything that doesn't fit within their critera of what is to be considered acceptable in terms of artistic and creative expression.

Design via checklist, whether that checklist was created by social justice advocates or a marketing team targeting specific demographics is artistically bankrupt. What annoys me about this entire situation is how many dishonest participates claim to be on the side of the artist, but are infact are either trying to preserve the old status quo or establish a new status quo on top of the ashes of the old.

Both of these positions are anti-art positions

I am quoting just to agree. Nothing to add.

For fuck's sake, why is it that I was having a more reasonable conversation on twitter then some of what I see here?

Anyways though, expanded thoughts on the character. I still like the character, as I put it elsewhere, I think that even if it is pandering (and lets be honest, between the character design and the unabashed "We did good, see!" attitude of the marketing, it can be described as nothing less) it is fine since they are pandering to a lot of different audience expectations now, adding a nice amount of variety to the roster as they go along.

I would have to say the biggest reason why I like this sort of thing but called shenanigans when Marvel was doing it was because Blizzard is adding to their property where marvel was replacing one targeted audience expectation with another. "Variety" isn't variety when it comes at the expense of other options, such as replacing an existing character or entire team with a different one for the freak-show shock and awe. But this character is just one in a growing series, so cool on them to add the character, if people don't like them, no need to use them, they will probably make one you do like well enough(if the game interests you anyways).

I have heard people say the other character they released, the gunslinger, got the shit end of the stick for being released at the same time and being less interesting a character, and I can see where that comes from, but I think that is more complaint with how the characters were unequally marketed (see: pandering) and less the fault of the characters themselves there.

For the individual using the thread to rant about gamergate though (and "male gamers" and various strawmen arguments and escapist bashing and whatever else), stop. Just stop. We have a nice little thread for that sort of thing already and I know you'd be very welcome to go on a rant like that there. So take the chip on your shoulder there if you got to, but please try to keep the thread at least a little more on topic.

Nice thought on adding vs. replacing.

As for my opinion on the character... Not a fan on the first glance. It is like a gender swapped heavy (which is a "replacing" in a meta way) with SJW hair.

Comparing, Iron Galaxy has brought two cool females to season 2 of Killer Instinct.

Spoiler

She has an attack called: "Clever Girl"

and:

Common trope? Yeah. But not in fighting games.

 

[Colour Scientist]

Oh my God, did someone legitimately just say "SJW hair?"

That's fucking hilarious.

So, do Lilith and Maya have "SJW hair?"XD

Fucking SJW hair.

 

[The Lunatic]

Were the criticisms of how they didn't like her our how she should be removed from the game and all characters like her should never be made ever? Because that's the difference between night and day. You know how you said you don't like Zarya because she's a tired and boring sterotype? That's why me and a lot of other people don't like Widowmaker. She's a tired and boring stereotype, the sexy French lady.

So long as the ratio is balanced I'd be ok with that. Preferably with some sexualized male characters to. I'm not really feeling it with the shirtless guy, we can do better than that. Really Jojo's Bizare Adventure it up.

It's the internet, and tumblr exists, I think we both know the answer to that question.

Yes, people were complaining she existed and wanted her removed, as well as screaming bloody murder over the idea that the other females in the game were in a physically fit state and wanted them removed.

I never said I thought otherwise of Widowmaker. My point is my complaints of Zarya and the complaints of most people thus far have focused on the character's theme and reason for addition, not her body shape.

It's an Actiblizzion game, I really don't care for them, the characters are invariably awful.

I see no reason why not! Given we've got a cast of stereotypes, why not the sexy nuns from Hitman?!

 

[Erttheking]

Were the criticisms of how they didn't like her our how she should be removed from the game and all characters like her should never be made ever? Because that's the difference between night and day. You know how you said you don't like Zarya because she's a tired and boring sterotype? That's why me and a lot of other people don't like Widowmaker. She's a tired and boring stereotype, the sexy French lady.

So long as the ratio is balanced I'd be ok with that. Preferably with some sexualized male characters to. I'm not really feeling it with the shirtless guy, we can do better than that. Really Jojo's Bizare Adventure it up.

It's the internet, and tumblr exists, I think we both know the answer to that question.

Yes, people were complaining she existed and wanted her removed, as well as screaming bloody murder over the idea that the other females in the game were in a physically fit state and wanted them removed.

I never said I thought otherwise of Widowmaker. My point is my complaints of Zarya and the complaints of most people thus far have focused on the character's theme and reason for addition, not her body shape.

It's an Actiblizzion game, I really don't care for them, the characters are invariably awful.

I see no reason why not! Given we've got a cast of stereotypes, why not the sexy nuns from Hitman?!

That's not an answer. Heck I've seen people on Tumblr who LIKE Widowmaker and ALL the female characters. Can we please stop stereotyping Tumblr to hell and back? And even if people did say something like that, was it to any significant degree? Because the criticisms I saw were pretty damn tame.

Well I didn't say that you did. I was explaining why I and others didn't like her and I was doing it in a way you would relate to.

It needs to fit the tone of the game. Just about everyone I talked to had the main problem of the nuns from hitman not really fitting the tone of the game. Didn't play it, not criticizing it myself, just saying what I saw. Overwatch is goofy enough for scantily glad women to hit in. Hitman I thought was supposed to be fairly serious, so again, didn't play it, but a nun stripper assassin squad in a serious game doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Especially when they ditch their much more effective disguises to reveal their BDSM gear despite the fact that they're sneaking up on 47 in the trailer. For some reason.

 

[Joseph Hutzulak]

Don't get it, when was Blizzard ever known for being "creative"? Their most original IP that anyone cared for was Diablo, StarCraft and Warcraft are straight up clones of the Warhammer and Warhammer 40k series. Even at what I would consider their golden age Warcraft 1- Warcraft 3: TFT they weren't exactly known for being super creative.

People are shocked that the company that shredded the story of their previous games unabashedly, ig Jim Raynor now is willing to sacrifice his friends for a women who he swore to kill for killing his friends and Green "Kal El" Jesus, are willing to create characters for no other purpose but some easy PR points. Its like if people acted surprised when EA unveils its latest money making scheme.

On another note I wonder if the women that were forced to take steroids and deal with the terrible after effects in the Soviet Union and its satellites, particularly East Germany, find the muscle bound "Russian" women so funny.

 

[Grahav]

Oh my God, did someone legitimately just say "SJW hair?"

That's fucking hilarious.

So, do Lilith and Maya have "SJW hair?"XD

Fucking SJW hair.

My bad. My bad. I should have said tumblr hair.

In comparison to the other characters is like a neon board on the top of her head.

 

[Colour Scientist]

Oh my God, did someone legitimately just say "SJW hair?"

That's fucking hilarious.

So, do Lilith and Maya have "SJW hair?"XD

Fucking SJW hair.

My bad. My bad. I should have said tumblr hair.

In comparison to the other characters is like a neon board on the top of her head.

That makes about as much sense as saying 'Facebook hair.'