Nintendo Loses Lawsuit Against DS Flash Cards

AceDiamond

New member
Jul 7, 2008
2,293
0
0
TooMiserableToLive said:
orangeapples said:
I haven't read the Nintendo DS' EULA, but is it against the ToS to use a third party card?
I doubt it, if it was, they'd have easily won the Lawsuit, right?
This is just off the DSi's EULA but it's safe to say there is probably something similar in the other DS EULA's:

Your Nintendo DSi System and the Nintendo DSi Service are not designed for use with unauthorized software, services, or devices or non-licensed accessories, and you may not use any of these with your Nintendo DSi System or the Nintendo DSi Service. Such use may be illegal, voids any warranty, and is a breach of this agreement.
source: http://www.nintendo.com/consumer/systems/dsi/en_la/EULA.jsp

And again I side with Nintendo on this. Yes I understand that people want to do homebrew development, but there comes a time where you just have to let it go. It's not like Nintendo has pulled this percieved "dick move" all of the time, after all. Despite it being company policy to crush emulation they haven't done a single thing about all the third-party emulators and ROMs floating about the Internet.
 

lodo_bear

New member
Nov 15, 2009
380
0
0
TooMiserableToLive said:
orangeapples said:
I haven't read the Nintendo DS' EULA, but is it against the ToS to use a third party card?
I doubt it, if it was, they'd have easily won the Lawsuit, right?
Not necessarily. Terms of Service don't always hold up in court (the standard defense being that they're too big and legalese to be comprehensible), and if that doesn't work, the ToS can still be illegal if they make you sign away certain rights or are otherwise unconscionable.

As it is, I don't have a DS. What are the Terms of Service? EDIT: Whoops, there they are, thank you. So, the judge has basically thrown out the ToS. I think this has big implications.

TooMiserableToLive said:
CoronaryThrombosis said:
DRTJR said:
if i where nintendo i'd stop translating major seres games in french as well as stop printing instrution manuels in french. there one of the smaller NU markets.
They translate into French for Canada though, and Canada is a good sized market.
They speak French in Canada? Damn you, you've just made me hate yet another country.
Monsieur! Soyez gentil avec ma langue favorie!
 

Blanks

New member
Mar 17, 2009
1,203
0
0
CyberAkuma said:
This is a surprise.
I know Nintendo has been fiercly trying to hunt down the makers of the R4 card and this is indeed a turn of events. Wow.

I recall back in the 80's when Nintendo had complete control of all hardware released for their system - even to the point that they could impose rules of how many games per year would be allowed to be released from a company.

I guess Nintendo is finally losing it.
Actually if you can recall there were many unlicensed NES(and one SNES)games made back then, so saying complete control isn't completely true

in a way it's a similar situation
 

AceDiamond

New member
Jul 7, 2008
2,293
0
0
Blanks said:
CyberAkuma said:
This is a surprise.
I know Nintendo has been fiercly trying to hunt down the makers of the R4 card and this is indeed a turn of events. Wow.

I recall back in the 80's when Nintendo had complete control of all hardware released for their system - even to the point that they could impose rules of how many games per year would be allowed to be released from a company.

I guess Nintendo is finally losing it.
Actually if you can recall there were many unlicensed NES(and one SNES)games made back then, so saying complete control isn't completely true

in a way it's a similar situation
Yes and if one will recall, they managed to force Tengen (a.k.a. Atari) to stop making unlicensed games for the NES.
 

Double A

New member
Jul 29, 2009
2,270
0
0
Their console, their rules.

I'm seeing a lot of other examples which don't quite work with the situation. The DS is copyrighted. Tools like hammers are not. Big difference.
 

Wintermoot

New member
Aug 20, 2009
6,563
0
0
both parties ahve a point Nintendo in being that this is there invention wich should actualy mean that they have control on what works and not but on the other side that homebrew should be alllowed (wich can also be miss-used by running downloaded games on it)
 

ItsAPaul

New member
Mar 4, 2009
762
0
0
Seems everyone I know but myself will keep their R4s, not that a ruling the other way would've stopped anything.
 

AceDiamond

New member
Jul 7, 2008
2,293
0
0
henritje said:
both parties ahve a point Nintendo in being that this is there invention wich should actualy mean that they have control on what works and not but on the other side that homebrew should be alllowed (wich can also be miss-used by running downloaded games on it)
The thing is that Nintendo isn't under any obligation to allow homebrew development. sure it would be nice if they did but there's no mandate for them to do so, nor will there be.
 

Jennacide

New member
Dec 6, 2007
1,019
0
0
CyberAkuma said:
This is a surprise.
I know Nintendo has been fiercly trying to hunt down the makers of the R4 card and this is indeed a turn of events. Wow.

I recall back in the 80's when Nintendo had complete control of all hardware released for their system - even to the point that they could impose rules of how many games per year would be allowed to be released from a company.

I guess Nintendo is finally losing it.
And you do realize how insanely corrupt those policies were, right? This thread is polluted with the vabid insanity of fanboys. This is a good thing, but the the Nintendo fans only see it as 'supporting piracy.' Yeah, cause flash carts were for piracy only. Not for people with homebrew, or consolidating thier massive game library onto a single cart, or emulating old NES/SNES games they rightfully own. Nope, just low down evil pirates.

God stupidity is so pandemic now.
 

HassEsser

New member
Jul 31, 2009
859
0
0
ItsAPaul said:
Seems everyone I know but myself will keep their R4s, not that a ruling the other way would've stopped anything.
This whole deal has nothing to do with R4's. They have to do with a different card. But you are right, if it were considered illegal to use R4's (R4i, in my case), or any other flash card, I would continue to use it. Same with hacking your Wii or your iPod Touch/iPhone. If it is ruled as illegal, I will continue use it as such.
 

AceDiamond

New member
Jul 7, 2008
2,293
0
0
Jennacide said:
CyberAkuma said:
This is a surprise.
I know Nintendo has been fiercly trying to hunt down the makers of the R4 card and this is indeed a turn of events. Wow.

I recall back in the 80's when Nintendo had complete control of all hardware released for their system - even to the point that they could impose rules of how many games per year would be allowed to be released from a company.

I guess Nintendo is finally losing it.
And you do realize how insanely corrupt those policies were, right? This thread is polluted with the vabid insanity of fanboys. This is a good thing, but the the Nintendo fans only see it as 'supporting piracy.' Yeah, cause flash carts were for piracy only. Not for people with homebrew, or consolidating thier massive game library onto a single cart, or emulating old NES/SNES games they rightfully own. Nope, just low down evil pirates.

God stupidity is so pandemic now.
Yes clearly it's fanboyism to suggest that companies have the right to protect their own hardware and software. Apparently nobody has a problem with Sony constantly devising whatever ways they can to defeat third-party firmware on the PSP, nobody has a problem with Microsoft banning Xbox Live users that modded their consoles (a clear violation of the TOS and EULA which the usage of an R4 is in terms of the DS) but as soon as someone supports Nintendo for wanting to outlaw R4s, oh shit, suddenly it's a problem. Cry some more; your pseudo-intellectual bullshit amuses me.
 

CrystalShadow

don't upset the insane catgirl
Apr 11, 2009
3,829
0
0
I really have no sympathy for 'copyright' holders these days.

Piracy is wrong. That much I don't dispute.
But if your average 'rights' holder had their way, you'd pay for the same thing 20 times, be forced to use specific software and/or hardware with it, and be imprisoned if you so much as think of trying to make any kind of copy or modification for your own personal use that would make things somewhat more useful.

Oh wait. Silly me. The DMCA was passed by far too many countries to think of...
Consumers have no rights, it seems.

Video won't play on your computer?
Buy a new computer.

I have a CD containing my favourite song. But I just got an Ipod...
Solution? Buy a copy of the song I already own specifically for this new device...

Honestly, I'm not against people making money from their art, but this is getting insanely one-sided...
 

NickCaligo42

New member
Oct 7, 2007
1,371
0
0
Amnestic said:
Yes, the judge with oodles of education and access to countless materials on such things is far more ignorant of the entire subject than you, some random internet poster.

In other news, I'm the Queen of Sheba. From now on I expect to be adressed as "Your Majesty" or "Your Highness."
I'm a graduate student studying digital game design for my MFA under industry veterans. That doesn't make me more qualified than a real industry professional by any means but I daresay I'm a lot more informed about games than the average politician, who generally isn't informed about anything other than politics. Who knows, though? Maybe you're right. Maybe I'm not giving the judge enough credit and he is an informed entertainment lawyer. From what I understand, though, the French government is generally unkind to major foreign media companies, feeling that they don't want them to influence French culture, and it tends to rule against them whenever possible--not necessarily always unjustly, mind you, but you can see a bit of where I'm coming from with this. My perspective is that they tend to be a bit unfair and are just as interested in damaging a company's profits as they are in anything else.

sheic99 said:
I'm just going to point this out for you, not all software for falshcards are in fact piracy. There is a good size amount of freeware and shareware software that has been written to run on the DS flashcards.
As I say, I like to consider myself well-informed, but frankly, I'm definitely not perfect and I'm willing to admit that I'm wrong when I am. In this case, I am definitely wrong, having not considered this angle over the more widely publicized and acknowledged use of flash cards for piracy.

Frankly I'm not in favor of console manufacturers having so much control over what content gets published. Try and imagine a world where you have to pay a several million dollar licensing fee to Magnavox, Sony, Toshiba, and every other DVD player manufacturer in order to publish movies that're compatible with their machines--and that's just for starters. Imagine having to pay $500,000 more to the company who manufactures your camera for each of them as well, on top of the $3,million that you had to pay to get a hold of the camera in the first place.

That's the world that game developers live in, and it sucks, big time. Games are enormously overpriced and the people behind the content don't get their fair cut of the profits over publishers and console manufacturers. It's a system that harms end users and developers. At some point, as consoles and PCs start to merge together, I hope we see the collapse of this system and a more open market for would-be game developers, because such enormous financial barriers aren't healthy for a growing medium. To this end I can definitely understand and agree with the judge's reasoning, and perhaps what we're witnessing is some equivalent of the first days of VCR, when media companies went nuts thinking it'd be the end for movies and television. Of course we know it totally wasn't.

Acrisius said:
Your post makes me want to /facepalm...
Yours makes me want to do the same. Spouting out a dozen false analogies spiced with red-hot slander instead of settling on just one doesn't make your reasoning any stronger. If you cooled your jets and explained your arguments intelligently and civilly maybe you wouldn't find yourself put on probation quite so often. The only reason to act the way that you do is if you're looking for a fight, which I wasn't. These forums are a place for discussion and expression of thought, not for childish venting.

To everybody who had the wherewithal to make a decent argument against my post, thank you for opening my eyes a bit and making me re-think things. To the rest of you, grow up already. It's just a forum and it won't kill you if one random stranger distrusts politicians.
 

ReepNeep

New member
Jan 21, 2008
461
0
0
Khell_Sennet said:
I'm siding with Nintendo on this one, it's their system, they should have full control over it.
I'm siding with the French government on this one. Once Nintendo sells the DS it belongs to the consumer who purchased it. Nintendo should have no say about how its used as they no longer have any rights to it.

They want to stop offering warranty services for a device that's been modified, that's perfectly reasonable. I void the warranties on my electronics all the time. Declaring such modifications to be illegal (with accompanying lawsuits and potential jail time) is not.
 

DeadlyYellow

New member
Jun 18, 2008
5,141
0
0
NickCaligo42 said:
That's the world that game developers live in, and it sucks, big time. Games are enormously overpriced and the people behind the content don't get their fair cut of the profits over publishers and console manufacturers. It's a system that harms end users and developers. At some point, as consoles and PCs start to merge together, I hope we see the collapse of this system and a more open market for would-be game developers, because such enormous financial barriers aren't healthy for a growing medium.
A man after my own heart, though a league ahead of me (getting close to my BFA.) Developers get a lot of flak for their troubles, when the majority of blame should be directed at the publishers. Systemic SDKs are not cheap, neither are licenses. Most publishers are only willing to fund solid franchises rather than seek new ones, and all too often release a game before it's final polish.

While it is true there are legitimate uses for third party cards it is overshadowed by what it allows. It was initially one of the things I had thought they eliminated with the DSi, though reading some of the posts here led me to believe otherwise. While it would eliminate some great homebrew programs, it helps preserve the integrity of the system if only for a bit.

As a gamer and prospective industry man (if I'm lucky as hell) I hate the idea of piracy and the futility of trying to fight it. You can create things for the love of the media, but if you don't make money off of it it will never amount to anything more than a hobby.
 

j0frenzy

New member
Dec 26, 2008
958
0
0
Ocelano said:
j0frenzy said:
LeonHellsvite said:
-sigh- Nintendo should put some more lockout than just regional lockout on their systems... that would stop things like this from ever happening.
The DS doesn't even use regional barriers.
Actually going to that I alway's hated regional barrier's I'm an aussie and as such have lost track of how many great looking games which I can't play merely because some us/jap developer didn't think there would be much point making Region 4 releases of their programs If I want to play the, then I either need to modchip my equipment which I don't know where to get or by a whole new system from the us but I can't be bothered spending an extra 400 dollars on a system I already own
I don't think the Wii is region encoded either, but I am less sure about that. I know for certain that the DS is not. Nintendo, being kinder to international gamers.
 

Danpascooch

Zombie Specialist
Apr 16, 2009
5,231
0
0
This sounds a lot like the lawsuit currently facing Microsoft over the 360 memory cards, I hope Microsoft loses too, locking out third party hardware is a predatory and anti competitive business practice, and is therefore illegal.
 

targren

New member
May 13, 2009
1,314
0
0
G-Mang said:
I'm surprised by the negative backlash. It was a ruling in favor of consumer rights:
A small win for "the people" (alas, not OUR people) is nothing compared to the power of the fanboy armada.