No Dedicated Servers for Modern Warfare 2 PC, Fans Freak Out

brewbeard

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It seems to me that this is an example of how the games industry is moving in the wrong direction as a result of console popularity. As consoles become more and more similar to PCs, I'd expect games to take advantage of that, adding mods and other frill options wherever possible. Instead what we have is PC games approaching console titles in similarity, removing options that have always been available on the platform.

I can understand that Microsoft and the other console devs have it in their best interest to have as much control over how their consoles can be used as possible (READ: Variety = Less Money), but when the PC starts to lose some of the things that differentiate it from consoles there's something wrong.

So when I see something like Infinity Ward failing to implement dedicated server support in MW2 it makes me suspicious. It makes me wonder if Microsoft's just pressuring them to make the console version more attractive, or if perhaps it's a step toward the standardization of the Windows Live service with the long-time goal of charging for multi-player services on console-to-pc ports. Something that has otherwise had to be free to compete on the PC as a gaming platform.
 

Lancer723

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Mornelithe said:
Never planned on buying MW2 anyway. Maybe when they reskin it as a WW2 era FPS.
You mean World at War?

OT:
What does it matter? As long as the transitions from host to host are smooth, then really why is it a big deal that the servers aren't dedicated? It just seems like people are complaining because they don't wan their precious PC gaming to resemble its console brethren.
 

Kevonovitch

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well, besides being a bandwagon petition signer, im gonna say something here:

why remove 1 of 2 ways people get into online games? we already HAVE a "matchmaking system" its called the "join a game now" button. albiet it went from lowest fps server to a form of matchmaking, we still have that ability. the dedicated servers do create larger communities as a whole, not only do you have regulars, they generally increase in frequency when you do have regulars, matchmaking removes that completely. and isent playing the game the "larger community"? think about it: its all one huge neighboorhood, but atleast we get to CHOOSE the house we enter. and if we wanna take random chance, we put on a blindfold and stumble around till we enter a house. so, all we'd be doing is degrading from a community, making it hard for friends and clans to play togeather, and cause people to flip through alot more servers just to have 1 game? so tell me, how is this "clunky and uninovative"? how is this "technology is better" BS any good, when its a step backwards? so its automatically done, whoop-de-do. thats not technology, thats just lazy. which ends up with more work anyways, via random flipping, as being lazy always does.

my 2 cents.

-Kevonovitch Fabroski Primanov.
 

MR T3D

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I think all people whom don't understand this need to consider the following:
A mod can be to a game what W@W was to CoD4, hell, even better.
BEFORE factoring in the FREE part.
And that a community CAN make MUCH BETTER MAPS than a dev team,
this is a really bad move for the PC gaming culture.
Personally, i believe GREATLY in individual freedom, and this threatens it, so i naturally treat it with great hostility, and that will never cease so long as this system exists.
 

brgillespie

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"...but couldn't one argue that Infinity Ward is simply trying to make one larger community?"

A large problem I have with so-called matchmaking MP services is that you're never really presented with a community. You get thrown into a match with a bunch of random nobodies you've never seen before, do some fragging, the match ends, and you probably never see those random nobodies ever again unless you bothered to send out a few "gamer invites" or whatever to the random dudes who said something clever... or something like that. Then you MAY see them again, IF they did accept your invite and have decided to accept...... eh, nevermind. It's a giant pain in the ass to describe, but I think you get my point.
 

internetzealot1

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Here's to hoping that these guys start a boycott.

Then they can compete with the L4D2 boycotters to see who can make more people roll their eyes in disgust!
 

crimson sickle2

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I was planning on getting Modern Warfare regardless, but I still feel bad for the PC players. Picking servers never felt that hard, I'm semi-new to playing online on both consoles and PCs; they seem the about the same, with the servers in a small lead. They should be petitioning to get MW2 to support mods, in my opinion, that's way more important in a PC game's life.
 

teh_gunslinger

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Dec 6, 2007
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ygetoff said:
teh_gunslinger said:
ygetoff said:
Wow. No offense, but this really only helps to reinforce the whole PC stereotype.
WlknCntrdiction said:
A console gamer wouldn't know the first thing about troubleshooting, because they want it nice and simple, and dumb.
This doesn't help.
MM has it's flaws, but Mr. Funk has a point. Try it. If it turns out to be the death of all video games (which it probably won't, given that consoles use it and we all have fun, too), then you can all say, "We told you so."
No, he has no point I think. Why down grade to a lame system and then wait for it to fail? Why implement it in the first place. He would have a point if it was a better system. It is genuinely not. Dedicated servers will beat MM and private matches any time when it comes to creating communities and playing with people you like. I don't need to bloat my Steam friends list just to find my regular playing friends. I just hit the favourite button in the server list and log on to the server I want. There is always some guys around I know.
What if it doesn't fail? Like I said before, it works just fine on consoles.
My point is kinda that it may work on consoles but if I wanted a gimped multiplayer system I'd play on a console. There is a reason I don't. I think it is a horrible way to do it. So I play on my pc when I wanna go online and only use the PS3 for sp stuff.

Why would I be assed to run a host on a common house hold line when a dedicated server gets lower ping, circumvents problems if a dev only has servers in the US and allows me to join a community. Why would I spam people with game invites to join a damn private match when there could be a server ready for any and all who wants to play. With an invite system I'm dependent on my friends wanting to play when I want. Lord knows it's bad enough in L4D as it is.

A dedicated server also makes for a longer life for a game as it's not dependent on when Bobby Kotick pulls the plug. And of I know him that will be sooner rather than later.

But it may be well and good for consoles but it's far to crappy for me. And that may in the eyes of some make me elitist. So be it.
 

noobface

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internetzealot1 said:
Here's to hoping that these guys start a boycott.

Then they can compete with the L4D2 boycotters to see who can make more people roll their eyes in disgust!
They're way ahead of you. 1000 members and counting.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/BOYCOTTMW2
 

internetzealot1

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noobface said:
internetzealot1 said:
Here's to hoping that these guys start a boycott.

Then they can compete with the L4D2 boycotters to see who can make more people roll their eyes in disgust!
They're way ahead of you. 1000 members and counting.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/BOYCOTTMW2
[Sighs]...Eyes rolling.
 

Robert632

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ahh. so now that the LFD2 ban is over, the gaming community will start right off the bat with a "MW2 petinion. ah lovely, predictable people.
 

4RT1LL3RY

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teh_gunslinger said:
ygetoff said:
teh_gunslinger said:
ygetoff said:
Wow. No offense, but this really only helps to reinforce the whole PC stereotype.
WlknCntrdiction said:
A console gamer wouldn't know the first thing about troubleshooting, because they want it nice and simple, and dumb.
This doesn't help.
MM has it's flaws, but Mr. Funk has a point. Try it. If it turns out to be the death of all video games (which it probably won't, given that consoles use it and we all have fun, too), then you can all say, "We told you so."
No, he has no point I think. Why down grade to a lame system and then wait for it to fail? Why implement it in the first place. He would have a point if it was a better system. It is genuinely not. Dedicated servers will beat MM and private matches any time when it comes to creating communities and playing with people you like. I don't need to bloat my Steam friends list just to find my regular playing friends. I just hit the favourite button in the server list and log on to the server I want. There is always some guys around I know.
What if it doesn't fail? Like I said before, it works just fine on consoles.
My point is kinda that it may work on consoles but if I wanted a gimped multiplayer system I'd play on a console. There is a reason I don't. I think it is a horrible way to do it. So I play on my pc when I wanna go online and only use the PS3 for sp stuff.

Why would I be assed to run a host on a common house hold line when a dedicated server gets lower ping, circumvents problems if a dev only has servers in the US and allows me to join a community. Why would I spam people with game invites to join a damn private match when there could be a server ready for any and all who wants to play. With an invite system I'm dependent on my friends wanting to play when I want. Lord knows it's bad enough in L4D as it is.

A dedicated server also makes for a longer life for a game as it's not dependent on when Bobby Kotick pulls the plug. And of I know him that will be sooner rather than later.

But it may be well and good for consoles but it's far to crappy for me. And that may in the eyes of some make me elitist. So be it.
Matchmaking works on consoles just as well as on PC, poorly IMO. I will give up my communities dedicated servers kicking and screaming. I have a group of people I like to play with, I know them in real life and online. I always find them on the server we go to and when we start playing its way more fun. You know lan parties? I love those and so do they, you can have low lag be in person and show off. Knowing the person you are killing makes it oh so much more satisfying.

I play PC for options. If you are making a feature, don't force it onto everyone. I love having choices, but I don't like having freedom taken away. I can't believe they dropped mod support though. MOD SUPPORT. Games that don't allow this die painful deaths after things get stale, unlike, for example, Unreal Tournament.

Devs need to change way matches are arranged to the platform they will be played on. I think everyone on console would love to have dedicated servers, you have less lag and ability to have more players. I don't like being able to see netcode in effect when I play a game. Getting shot from behind walls because of lag correction for example.
 

teh_gunslinger

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Dec 6, 2007
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4RT1LL3RY said:
teh_gunslinger said:
ygetoff said:
teh_gunslinger said:
ygetoff said:
Wow. No offense, but this really only helps to reinforce the whole PC stereotype.
WlknCntrdiction said:
A console gamer wouldn't know the first thing about troubleshooting, because they want it nice and simple, and dumb.
This doesn't help.
MM has it's flaws, but Mr. Funk has a point. Try it. If it turns out to be the death of all video games (which it probably won't, given that consoles use it and we all have fun, too), then you can all say, "We told you so."
No, he has no point I think. Why down grade to a lame system and then wait for it to fail? Why implement it in the first place. He would have a point if it was a better system. It is genuinely not. Dedicated servers will beat MM and private matches any time when it comes to creating communities and playing with people you like. I don't need to bloat my Steam friends list just to find my regular playing friends. I just hit the favourite button in the server list and log on to the server I want. There is always some guys around I know.
What if it doesn't fail? Like I said before, it works just fine on consoles.
My point is kinda that it may work on consoles but if I wanted a gimped multiplayer system I'd play on a console. There is a reason I don't. I think it is a horrible way to do it. So I play on my pc when I wanna go online and only use the PS3 for sp stuff.

Why would I be assed to run a host on a common house hold line when a dedicated server gets lower ping, circumvents problems if a dev only has servers in the US and allows me to join a community. Why would I spam people with game invites to join a damn private match when there could be a server ready for any and all who wants to play. With an invite system I'm dependent on my friends wanting to play when I want. Lord knows it's bad enough in L4D as it is.

A dedicated server also makes for a longer life for a game as it's not dependent on when Bobby Kotick pulls the plug. And of I know him that will be sooner rather than later.

But it may be well and good for consoles but it's far to crappy for me. And that may in the eyes of some make me elitist. So be it.
Matchmaking works on consoles just as well as on PC, poorly IMO. I will give up my communities dedicated servers kicking and screaming. I have a group of people I like to play with, I know them in real life and online. I always find them on the server we go to and when we start playing its way more fun. You know lan parties? I love those and so do they, you can have low lag be in person and show off. Knowing the person you are killing makes it oh so much more satisfying.

I play PC for options. If you are making a feature, don't force it onto everyone. I love having choices, but I don't like having freedom taken away. I can't believe they dropped mod support though. MOD SUPPORT. Games that don't allow this die painful deaths after things get stale, unlike, for example, Unreal Tournament.

Devs need to change way matches are arranged to the platform they will be played on. I think everyone on console would love to have dedicated servers, you have less lag and ability to have more players. I don't like being able to see netcode in effect when I play a game. Getting shot from behind walls because of lag correction for example.
I've read your post a couple of times now... We agree, right? Dedicated servers is the superior way to go and all that jazz?
 

MercenaryCanary

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CantFaketheFunk said:
At first glance, this seemed to be - and on some level, continues to seem to be - a classic example of "They Changed It, Now It Sucks." [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks]
Oh god no... I was like, "It's from Tv Tropes, isn't it?"
AND BAM!
It is.
 

4RT1LL3RY

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Yes, everyone loves dedicated servers. People I know on console wish they could have dedicated servers. They also loved L4D because of this, even if they were hosted by Valve, dedicated is dedicated. They want low lag.

One of the communities I'm in, NoobToob, host events in games. We always run out of room in the xbox events, we also run out of room at the PC events but we can get twice the people in. Its a lot more hectic on the PC because of this, but the main rule Don't Be A Dick, prevents most of them, no one using martyrdom is also great. But the main thing we love about the PC events is we don't have to just do the same DM all the time. We switch it up with zombie and onslaught mods. I wish consoles could support mods better, like UT3 on PS3.

In summary dedicated servers are great because they let you have a constant ping, lower lag, custom gamemodes and more players.
Mods are great because they let you have fresh experience even after a long time with the game.
Losing both of them is a major hit to PC gaming in any title.
 

Horticulture

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CantFaketheFunk said:
At first glance, this seemed to be - and on some level, continues to seem to be - a classic example of "They Changed It, Now It Sucks." [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheyChangedItNowItSucks] I could understand the furor over the lack of mods, since mods are always fun, but - of all things - complaining because we're not using traditional server technology? Are all FPS games going to have to have a server browser from now until the end of time? What happens when genuinely better tech comes along?

Let's face the music, PC gamers: Server browsers are usually clunky and unintuitive. In trying to teach a (non-PC-gaming) friend how to play TF2, the first twenty or so minutes were just spent on how to sort through and select a server. I know that we PC gamers like to think of ourselves as an exclusive little club of special kids who hold high reign above those console lowlifes, but really? Are people really complaining about a more easily accessible game with modern matchmaking technology?

I was about to conclude with something along the lines of "At least the threw his hat into the ring [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/92818-Fans-Petition-For-StarCraft-II-LAN-Blizzard-Responds]. The two incontrovertible points there seem to be "they make moderation easier to enforce" (as long as the players providing the servers are dedicated) and "they create communities." Even then: It might be true that they create little insular communities (even if I'd be willing to bet most gamers just pick servers primarily based on map/ping/how full they are), but couldn't one argue that Infinity Ward is simply trying to make one larger community?

In the end, though, this is just sound and fury, signifying nothing. Infinity Ward will probably not be swayed, Modern Warfare 2 will come out as planned, everyone who hemmed and hawed over this will still buy the game (though they'll still complain) and it will sell a hojillion bazillion copies.
The problem PC gamers have with the exclusion of dedicated server browsers doesn't stem from resistance to any change in our server browsers-it stems from reduced multiplayer functionality in a highly anticipated AAA title. I doubt anyone would object to the addition of matchmaking and official servers alongside dedicated servers and a traditional browser, or a new browser format that makes finding servers more accessible for new gamers. We are, however, frustrated to see features that have been standard in multiplayer shooters for a decade left out, especially in a game facing a PC-exclusive delay and an unusually high price tag.

I doubt that IW will create a 'larger community' through the elimination of dedicated servers. Clans and gaming groups are integral to PC gaming, and the inability to host private servers will discourage them from becoming active players of MW2. This will lead, if anything, to a smaller community, and one which is missing an important segment of gamers. It is, frankly, a slap in the face to the gamers who are the most active in supporting PC gaming as a platform and a community to remove dedicated server support.

It's even more worrying to take the removal of these features in context. As I mentioned previously, MW2 is already facing the now-traditional 2-week delay for PC and launching at $60 as opposed to the usual $50. The removal of dedicated server and mod support represents two more salvos against the status quo of PC gaming-with no silver lining save for what seems to be more of the excellent gameplay seen in the first Modern Warfare. Unfortunately, you're probably right that the game will sell quite well despite these handicaps. I worry that if publishers, including Activision's competitors, see Modern Warfare 2 and others selling well despite raised prices, delays, and missing features, that they'll replicate these 'innovations' in future titles.

In the grand scheme of things, a single late, expensive, and feature-crippled game isn't a major problem. 2010 will have its own big multiplayer shooter and we'll all forget about this. If sales for MW2 are strong, though, we might get more of the same from next fall's blockbuster, as well.
 

NitrousOxid3

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Chipperz said:
Also, I've just had a thought - if Console gamers had to put up withthe quagmire of server selection, we'd be told to suck it up and deal with it. Why is it not OK to do it the other way round?
It wouldn't happen. That's not the point. We're not trying to force our ideals for a GREAT MP experience on the consoles. Just keep the console interfaces and matchmaking systems out of the PC. Every game thus far has turned out to be utter crap when they proclaimed "bringing the console experience to PC gamers". We never wanted that experience, it's horrible and player to player hosting is horrendous for numerous reasons. The Consoles are incapable of supporting Dedicated Servers to the extent that PC relies on them. IW doesn't seem to understand the frustration behind it....

Have they not played Rainbow Six Vegas 1 and 2 for the PC? FEAR2? Gears of War? These are games off the top of my head that were multi platformed and all promised "best of quality for search function", all of the above failed. The search function, no matter how much they want it to work; fails. FEAR2 had an agonizing process. Finding servers on TF2 is definitely easier than you could find servers on FEAR2 and I feel IW.Net wont do much different. I don't have any confidence in this since the examples thus far have proven very unfavorable to the current games in existence such as CoD4 (ironically) and TF2. New players to the PC market may have a hard time with how server search works but it's relatively easy and less tedious once you learn the setup of the layout.

All IW.Net is going to give us is a search function that requires tedious window clicking to get what we want; when it could easily be simplified by simply allowing PC players to have their own hub. The game is going to use STEAM, let STEAM have priority of sever files; I understand the achievements and stats but if IW wasn't confident in giving us DSs... they should of just paired completely with Steam.

Bowling pretty much mocked the modder community. A community that Valve loves as seen in TF2. VAC wont stop hacking either, it still goes on in TF2. As of right now I've lost confidence in CoDMW2's MP support; it's as if they don't really care about the competitive market of the PC. There's no reason for this stupidity, instead of admitting they have no understanding they turn around and give us falsified information about what went on with CoD4. Yes the game was pirated, it wasn't pirated by 60% - that's a lot and giving pirating too much credit.

In the end, there's so many factors that come down to PC online gaming. Ping matters and there's a lot of variables that can and do affect ping. Distance from ISP, distance from host, ISP In/Out rates, host in/out rates, ISPs (I use Verizon FIOS, host may use Packbell DSL), etc. Dedicated Servers cut these problems in half by making it easier for a host to display a consistent game to the best of their abilities; it was a necessity for gaming online and especially for competitive gaming. The Modders, competitors, etc; all have been greatly underestimated here.

Izerous said:
Petition is already at "112508 Total Signatures" and growing.
Yeah but they already posted their response and ignorantly so. I'm ashamed of IW, I wasn't expecting them to defend themselves with pointless and falsified information and/or assumptions.
 

DTWolfwood

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Oct 20, 2009
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Frank_Sinatra_ said:
If you graduate to a PC then you must be going to a community college.
Since when was the PC some godly thing that only the best can use? I game on my PC and I prefer a console.
Plus if you had listened to IW they said they were going to make the game balanced for all, and if that includes PCs then so be it.
Really all of you PC people bitching makes you look childish and me glad that I'm not a hardcore PC gamer.
thanks for not seeing the point XD
Im telling you their reason for doing this has nothing to do with it being a better or worst system, it everything to do with which is easiest for them to port. Yeah just keep thinking they have the end user in mind when they pulled this wool over your eye.

Glad you like your console more too, i love the games i have my console. but wen it comes to FPS the mouse and keyboard >> controller. (not to mention lack of autoaim kinda requires some skill) Glad to see you like to live a sheltered life where any challenge is GOD FORBID existant in the world.