I think Rush said it well when they said "I think its time for us to recognise the differences we sometimes feared to show" (Entre nous from the Permanent Waves album). This appears to be trying to make everyone think that there is no difference from one person to the next, but it is these differences that make people interesting, unique, and makes the world a good place to live in.
No 'Him' or 'Her' in Preschool. Wait, what?
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I most certainly applaud this preschool for actually making a concerted effort to do what they're doing. I'm not entirely sure it's such a good thing that "Nearly all the children's books deal with homosexual couples, single parents or adopted children," but to me that's far better than none of them being about those things. Also, screw traditional fairy tales. Cinderella and Sleeping Beauty are quite possibly the worst role models you could give a child and do almost nothing but reinforce gender stereotypes.
Can't say I'm too fond of the whole abolition of him/her. That seems like it's ignoring a pretty prominent part of what it means to be a person.
Can't say I'm too fond of the whole abolition of him/her. That seems like it's ignoring a pretty prominent part of what it means to be a person.
Great... escapist delivers again. Read that article this morning and was hoping for a some place whit atleast semi intelligent discussion about it so I could throw in my 2 cents <3 So here it goes:
While I think its great to teach kids to be tolerant of gays etc. I think totally ignoring gender roles in preschool is pretty stupid as gender roles still play a big part in the society as they always have and most likely will as long as humanity exists. Meh I had something clever to say but forgot the moment i started writing... always happens to me :S
While I think its great to teach kids to be tolerant of gays etc. I think totally ignoring gender roles in preschool is pretty stupid as gender roles still play a big part in the society as they always have and most likely will as long as humanity exists. Meh I had something clever to say but forgot the moment i started writing... always happens to me :S
I really don't understand why people think equality should mean "We're all the same." In my opinion, equality should be the promotion of the idea that we're all different, but are to be treated equally.
Acknowledging and embracing our differences, as man from woman or gay from straight etc., seems like a much better way of dealing with the problems that can come from them instead of insisting that everyone is the same, which clearly isn't true.
Acknowledging and embracing our differences, as man from woman or gay from straight etc., seems like a much better way of dealing with the problems that can come from them instead of insisting that everyone is the same, which clearly isn't true.
This is ridiculous, they aren't trying to get rid of stereotypes, it sounds more like they are trying to get rid of the concept of gender entirely. They aren't just trying to not build up traditional gender roles, they are trying to remove even the idea of them. They are trying to ignore the fact that the minds of girls and boys are typically just different. I can understand where their intentions are, but this is just madness. Men and Women can and should be equal, but its kind of fucked up trying to make them one and the same.
it's making a choice for the child. No matter how you raise a child, you're constantly making dozens, if not hundreds of decisions for them.WoodenPlanck said:
Oh sure, Cinderella may have been incredibly progressive for its time, but that time has long since passed.Flauros said:
I'm not familiar with that particular Baba Yaga story.
I agree my mom babysits so I have children around all the time and alot of these role type mind sets do start at a very young age however I do think that encouraging a child to see no bariers between genders is a important thing. It is not a good thing if a children see things that girls do and things boys doSneaky Paladin said:
If something looks this stupid, chances are its down to the slant the organisation reporting on it have decided to take. I can't say I support everything that's mentioned there, but if you actually went on a visit to that school the impression you came away with would probably be completely different to the one the article is trying to give you.
We're all different. There are gender differences, though they don't always apply to EVERY SINGLE PERSON out there. As such that should be explained. If this is equality...Eeeh. I mean I'm all for equal rights and such, but this is taking it a tad too far.
As to the fairy tales thing...Have we all at least considered that maybe, just maybe, a preschooler won't actually look at any sexist theme that is inherent in the story? Maybe they'd just enjoy the story as what it is? You know, a fairy tale? Think we should have a bit more faith in kids.
As to the fairy tales thing...Have we all at least considered that maybe, just maybe, a preschooler won't actually look at any sexist theme that is inherent in the story? Maybe they'd just enjoy the story as what it is? You know, a fairy tale? Think we should have a bit more faith in kids.
I find the way they're going about it is a bit ridiculous but the idea behind it is commendable.
For instance with the book I would say it would make far more sense to have the Giraffes not given a gender, that way they're saying it isn't important what gender the Giraffes are, just that they can't have chldren, I agree totally with the Crocodile bit though, which may enforce some sort of racial equality and teach kids that it doesn't matter what people look like.
About the placing of toys too, i'd say just put them all in one place, perhaps to teach kids organisational skills and the alphabet organise them alphabetially instead of by wat toys are for boys and what are for girls.
And finally the him/her thing, I think that's a bit silly and won't really achieve anything. I do however believe that all languages should have a gender neutral tag as most are sorely lacking one, but that is a bit off the topic.
For instance with the book I would say it would make far more sense to have the Giraffes not given a gender, that way they're saying it isn't important what gender the Giraffes are, just that they can't have chldren, I agree totally with the Crocodile bit though, which may enforce some sort of racial equality and teach kids that it doesn't matter what people look like.
About the placing of toys too, i'd say just put them all in one place, perhaps to teach kids organisational skills and the alphabet organise them alphabetially instead of by wat toys are for boys and what are for girls.
And finally the him/her thing, I think that's a bit silly and won't really achieve anything. I do however believe that all languages should have a gender neutral tag as most are sorely lacking one, but that is a bit off the topic.
Exactly. With what they want to do, by essentially eliminating all explanation of difference there's going to be some severe confusion come the sex education years. "did 'hen' (seriously, what's up with that?) chop off his willy? What's a vagina?'Deschamps said:
Seems like rather than teach that people should accept differences, people are taking the easy route by trying phase them out and thus mess with the child's basic understanding of the world.
I might be stating the obvious but one gender has dangly bits and the other doesn't.Snowy Rainbow said:
What he's getting at as far as I can tell is that kids are going to notice their differences pretty fast, they aren't stupid.
EDIT: Fixed a grammatical error as at the time of typing I changed a word which required the alteration of some grammar.
Also:
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/forums/read/18.297101-No-Him-or-Her-in-Preschool-Wait-what?page=5#11759007
Look up, Im not your enemies so don't make me out to be it, cheers.
Leagues better than when I was in preschool. I was tied up with jump rope and locked in a closet for playing with girl toys (I was viewed as a boy at the time - I'm tg). Also got ridiculed for going into girl line for bathroom. (I saw myself as a girl until the world literally beat it into me that I was different). So I'm all for breaking down gender stereotypes.
Sex =/= gender.Ickorus said:
Sex organ =/= sex.
And yes, the kids are different. Everyone is. Got a penis? You can be a girl. You can be a boy. You can be neither. Both. No one but you know. Forgive me for wanting children to grow up free to decide for themselves what they are, not having titles thrust upon them and told what they are and aren't based on our idiotic understanding of sex. "Oh, you have a penis. You are a boy." No. Screw that. Not only do some men (men with a functioning penis, testes, typical male levels of hormones and a "male brain") have two X chromosomes, some men have ovaries inside them that they never even know is there.
Adult humans struggle with sexuality and gender as it is. We (human science) can't even say for certain what sex someone is, even if we see their DNA and genitals. The whole thing is a sham.
I really don't agree with the way children (in many countries) are educated nowadays.
The kids at my school get taught their alphabet 'phonetically', this means that they are taught the sound that the letter makes, not the 'name' of the letter. (For example the letter C is not pronounced 'see' it is proonounced 'ka'.
I have no idea why they do this, when I was in primary school, I was taught the alphabet normally, and I've turned out fine (in before: no you haven't lolololo) so why do kids have to be taught a different alphabet that will not serve them any purpose outside of primary school.
The kids at my school get taught their alphabet 'phonetically', this means that they are taught the sound that the letter makes, not the 'name' of the letter. (For example the letter C is not pronounced 'see' it is proonounced 'ka'.
I have no idea why they do this, when I was in primary school, I was taught the alphabet normally, and I've turned out fine (in before: no you haven't lolololo) so why do kids have to be taught a different alphabet that will not serve them any purpose outside of primary school.
What they mean is that sex and gender aren't the same. Your gender can be male and your sex female, or vice-versa, or you can have no gender and have one sex, or you can be intersex, etc.Ickorus said:
Anyways, I think neutral pronouns are interesting but banning the non-neutral ones seems silly. I do like that they let kids play with whatever they want, provided they don't tell a boy who's playing with cars to go play in the kitchen instead. Some kids will have their favourite toys, sometimes they will match the stereotypes, sometimes they won't.
I thought the story about the giraffe was nice, but I agree it wouldn't matter what sex the giraffes are. This being said I didn't get the impression that the school writes the story, just that they picked them.
I would say having some stories that perpetuate gender stereotypes would be good too so they have the whole spectrum, however I do understand that the reasoning there is that the kids already get these at home when watching TV, or see them everywhere, so the school is only there to balance it out.
I think it's nice. I was raised with 3 brothers and we all had similar toys, and nobody told me I wasn't allowed to play with the cars or that my little brother wasn't allowed to play with the dolls. They weren't girl toys and boy toys, they were just toys.
I have to say, it boggles my mind that anyone would wonder why Cinderella enforces stereotypes. A girl is forced to cook and clean because her father (a man) isn't there to protect her, until she marries a rich guy. Of course it's stereotypical. There aren't many fairy tales that aren't, they were taught to kids for a reason.