No "Meaningless Stat Games" in Mass Effect 3

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

I don't have to literally farm entire galaxies to just upgrade Garrus' calibration cannon, or?

Hang on a sec, I'll respond to that once I calibrate this post;

That ticked me off about ME2 too. Garrus had next to no dialogue for a male Shepard. I understand he was a squad mate in ME, but it got insulting after a certain point.

 

[Jumplion]

Here's what I'm wondering

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, whatever, we get it, combat is more fluid and smooth and whatever.

What about the non-combat aspects? I want to know where I'll be traveling, will vehicles return? Will these still be linear corridors? What customization options do I have? Who is on my side and who isn't? What is the state of the Citadel and the Council in the wake of Earth's invasion? C'mon, it's supposed to be a friggin' Space Opera, not another action-packed blockbuster as much as we may love those at times!

My thoughts exactly. All of these announcements about Mass Effect's combat are making me nervous. Gears of War and Call of Duty are where we go when we want mindless shooting, Bioware games are where we go when we want messy moral decisions and fantastic and creative environments.

Get that straight, Bioware.

How are messy moral decisions and fantastic and creative environments mutually exclusive with shooting from behind chest-high walls?

They're not, I just feel that BioWare have been unnecessarily pumping up the combat to their game when they've given us little information about anything else. It's great they have more stramlined combat, whatever, I don't care about that right now, I want the juicier bits to this.

 

[Duskflamer]

Having given it some thought, I think that this announcement on it's own doesn't warrant too much panic, it's when this is combined with the earlier announcement that EA wants Mass Effect 3 to appeal to as wide an audience as possible that the panic begins (though only begins) to become justified. Streamlined combat is good, dumbed down combat for the point of attracting CoD fans is not good. I don't think I'd truly mind substantial upgrades much if I wasn't afraid that the only reason they're going this direction is because they want to attract people who are too thick headed to register anything less than a drastic change.

 

[ZeZZZZevy]

People do realize RPG stands for "Role-Playing Game" right? As in the point is a deep story, not a crapload of minor stat increases and equations. As long as the story and character development is still really good I think it's still gonna be a blast.

However, I'm reserving judgement until I get more concrete information. These vague comments are just plain unhelpful.

 

[Jumplion]

I don't have to literally farm entire galaxies to just upgrade Garrus' calibration cannon, or?

Hang on a sec, I'll respond to that once I calibrate this post;
*snip*

That ticked me off about ME2 too. Garrus had next to no dialogue for a male Shepard. I understand he was a squad mate in ME, but it got insulting after a certain point.

Seriously, I was honestly offended, it was like he didn't want to spend time with his old buddy anymore! Always calibrations, calibrations, calibrations! You'd think he got off on those calibrations of his!

 

[Paksenarrion]

Mass Effect 3...by the producers of Heavy Rain.

Press X to "Reapers".

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Look, they tell me the BS Renegade/Paragon system is gone, and I'll be on board. It is probably my biggest complaint along with the dialogue wheel.

 

[Canadish]

Well, this is a very good thing, eh fellows?
Not enough shooters on the market these days. To many RPGs with rich and deep stories I say.
Bravo Bioware, for being different!

Oh...wait...

So, here we have it, Bioware's new mantra at work yet again eh?

"CombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombat"

Remember back during Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age Origins?
Back when some quests didn't involve killing people, and we got to try other kinds of skills out to solve problems?
I miss that.

So, we were totally right when we were concerned over the EA statement about re-specing the game for a "wider audience" with the extra months?
Even Bioware is coming out and saying they're tearing out more RPG. Again

 

[rsvp42]

I'm so glad that my love of leveling, looting, and tactics is now relegated to "meaningless stat games".

When did they say they were removing leveling, tactics, or looting?

Looting was gone in ME2, as was in depth leveling and combat was much less tactical and more fast paced. Seems to be what he is referencing.

Weird... somehow I completely forgot about the lack of loot. I'm being sincere; I completely forgot. Overall I think the changes focused the game a lot more. Fiddling with points is not fun and the end result of an effective character isn't any more rewarding because I put a bunch of little points into stats instead a of fewer big points into abilities. I think anytime the benefits of applying skill points can be given clearer effects, it's an improvement.

 

[sneakypenguin]

Love this, anything to piss off traditional gamers amuses me. You can keep your minute level upgrades .01 sec to lift length etc, and exploring baren planets with about 15 textures. I'll take streamlined combat and bioware story over that crap any day.

Or, you know, they could have streamlined combat, a Bioware story, AND RPG elements at the same time.

But RPG elements are kind of an archaic thing for a modern game. Its immersion breaking when you exit a conversation and get a level up icon, "lets go save this guy in a bar fight.... after I decide if I want 6% shield bypass or 6% cooldown reduction". Or to say this pistol does 46 damage but this exact same model except with a VIII after it does 205. Its a gameplay mechanic whos existence makes almost no sense in any story or world.

 

[mireko]

"We want to enrich the role-playing aspects of the game, while making sure that they're always meaningful in combat," she said. "We don't want to have any meaningless behind-the-scenes stat games, where the output is very minor in combat. Every single thing you do has a real impact in the battle."

Does this mean they're trying to avoid players having to deal with minmaxing or are they just cutting out stats entirely? The "enrich the role-playing aspects" line implies the former, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the context of ME2, which was pretty much stat-free.

That is, unless they're planning on introducing more RPG elements this time around and are trying to indicate that it won't become a labyrinthine stat system like what many people accused the first game of having. ME1's stat system wasn't what they're describing, but it also wasn't very good. Something between ME1 and ME2 would be ideal.

Of course, there's literally no way to tell based on the wording of her statements. They could definitely afford to be a little more clear on this.

[small]An aside: If ME3 sucks I might just go off WRPGs for a few years. Bethesda has never interested me, Obsidian can't make a game without bugs, CD Projekt is still making games about Geralt (who can fuck off), Piranha Bytes made Risen (one of the worst games I've played in recent memory), Arkane Studios are kind of eh and not really worth it, and I'm having a hard time coming up with any more devs.[/small]

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

snip.

Then you probably don't like games like SRPGs. That's fine. But I can complain when a game that is marketed as a RPG doesn't have enough RPG.

 

[Zeraki]

Look, they tell me the BS Renegade/Paragon system is gone, and I'll be on board. It is probably my biggest complaint along with the dialogue wheel.

I agree about the paragon/renegade system(with Mass Effect 2 mostly), but what problem do you have with the dialogue wheel?

 

[taciturnCandid]

Is it time to call that EA has pressured Bioware into causing Mass Effect to Jump The Shark? I'm beginning to think that. Started that way with 2.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Look, they tell me the BS Renegade/Paragon system is gone, and I'll be on board. It is probably my biggest complaint along with the dialogue wheel.

I agree about the paragon/renegade system(with Mass Effect 2 mostly), but what problem do you have with the dialogue wheel?

It is detrimental to role-playing. Guessing what my character is going to say isn't fun.

 

[Duskflamer]

Obvious troll is obvious.

Actually, that wasn't trolling. I'd much prefer complicated stats than listening to 10 hours of dialog from 50 people just to move forward a little bit.

The entire point of a Bioware RPG is story and dialog, that's 90% of the reason why all the announcements about combat is worrying people. If you gutted the dialog of a Bioware RPG you've cut out its biggest selling point.

Maybe you don't like all that dialog, that's fine, Bioware RPGs aren't for you. But in the end, we're complaining because all we have are vague details that sound like they're cutting out the more stat-based side of the RPG. In the end, as long as the story and dialog are as solid as always, and Bioware makes true on its "widely branching endings" claim, Bioware RPG fans (myself included) will enjoy the game.

 

[Ghostzins]

So its an FPS (or TPS I suppose) pretending to be an RPG?

Well, to be fair that's kinda what this franchise has always been. I mean I enjoy the talky bits as much as the next person but the gameplay from ME1 to ME2 seldom deviated from "go to place and hand out bullet pastries" formula.