No "Meaningless Stat Games" in Mass Effect 3

[Canadish]

Well, this is a very good thing, eh fellows?
Not enough shooters on the market these days. To many RPGs with rich and deep stories I say.
Bravo Bioware, for being different!

Oh...wait...

So, here we have it, Bioware's new mantra at work yet again eh?

"CombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombatCombat"

Remember back during Mass Effect 1 and Dragon Age Origins?
Back when some quests didn't involve killing people, and we got to try other kinds of skills out to solve problems?
I miss that.

So, we were totally right when we were concerned over the EA statement about re-specing the game for a "wider audience" with the extra months?
Even Bioware is coming out and saying they're tearing out more RPG. Again

 

[rsvp42]

I'm so glad that my love of leveling, looting, and tactics is now relegated to "meaningless stat games".

When did they say they were removing leveling, tactics, or looting?

Looting was gone in ME2, as was in depth leveling and combat was much less tactical and more fast paced. Seems to be what he is referencing.

Weird... somehow I completely forgot about the lack of loot. I'm being sincere; I completely forgot. Overall I think the changes focused the game a lot more. Fiddling with points is not fun and the end result of an effective character isn't any more rewarding because I put a bunch of little points into stats instead a of fewer big points into abilities. I think anytime the benefits of applying skill points can be given clearer effects, it's an improvement.

 

[sneakypenguin]

Love this, anything to piss off traditional gamers amuses me. You can keep your minute level upgrades .01 sec to lift length etc, and exploring baren planets with about 15 textures. I'll take streamlined combat and bioware story over that crap any day.

Or, you know, they could have streamlined combat, a Bioware story, AND RPG elements at the same time.

But RPG elements are kind of an archaic thing for a modern game. Its immersion breaking when you exit a conversation and get a level up icon, "lets go save this guy in a bar fight.... after I decide if I want 6% shield bypass or 6% cooldown reduction". Or to say this pistol does 46 damage but this exact same model except with a VIII after it does 205. Its a gameplay mechanic whos existence makes almost no sense in any story or world.

 

[mireko]

"We want to enrich the role-playing aspects of the game, while making sure that they're always meaningful in combat," she said. "We don't want to have any meaningless behind-the-scenes stat games, where the output is very minor in combat. Every single thing you do has a real impact in the battle."

Does this mean they're trying to avoid players having to deal with minmaxing or are they just cutting out stats entirely? The "enrich the role-playing aspects" line implies the former, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense in the context of ME2, which was pretty much stat-free.

That is, unless they're planning on introducing more RPG elements this time around and are trying to indicate that it won't become a labyrinthine stat system like what many people accused the first game of having. ME1's stat system wasn't what they're describing, but it also wasn't very good. Something between ME1 and ME2 would be ideal.

Of course, there's literally no way to tell based on the wording of her statements. They could definitely afford to be a little more clear on this.

[small]An aside: If ME3 sucks I might just go off WRPGs for a few years. Bethesda has never interested me, Obsidian can't make a game without bugs, CD Projekt is still making games about Geralt (who can fuck off), Piranha Bytes made Risen (one of the worst games I've played in recent memory), Arkane Studios are kind of eh and not really worth it, and I'm having a hard time coming up with any more devs.[/small]

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

snip.

Then you probably don't like games like SRPGs. That's fine. But I can complain when a game that is marketed as a RPG doesn't have enough RPG.

 

[Zeraki]

Look, they tell me the BS Renegade/Paragon system is gone, and I'll be on board. It is probably my biggest complaint along with the dialogue wheel.

I agree about the paragon/renegade system(with Mass Effect 2 mostly), but what problem do you have with the dialogue wheel?

 

[taciturnCandid]

Is it time to call that EA has pressured Bioware into causing Mass Effect to Jump The Shark? I'm beginning to think that. Started that way with 2.

 

[RedEyesBlackGamer]

Look, they tell me the BS Renegade/Paragon system is gone, and I'll be on board. It is probably my biggest complaint along with the dialogue wheel.

I agree about the paragon/renegade system(with Mass Effect 2 mostly), but what problem do you have with the dialogue wheel?

It is detrimental to role-playing. Guessing what my character is going to say isn't fun.

 

[Duskflamer]

Obvious troll is obvious.

Actually, that wasn't trolling. I'd much prefer complicated stats than listening to 10 hours of dialog from 50 people just to move forward a little bit.

The entire point of a Bioware RPG is story and dialog, that's 90% of the reason why all the announcements about combat is worrying people. If you gutted the dialog of a Bioware RPG you've cut out its biggest selling point.

Maybe you don't like all that dialog, that's fine, Bioware RPGs aren't for you. But in the end, we're complaining because all we have are vague details that sound like they're cutting out the more stat-based side of the RPG. In the end, as long as the story and dialog are as solid as always, and Bioware makes true on its "widely branching endings" claim, Bioware RPG fans (myself included) will enjoy the game.

 

[Ghostzins]

So its an FPS (or TPS I suppose) pretending to be an RPG?

Well, to be fair that's kinda what this franchise has always been. I mean I enjoy the talky bits as much as the next person but the gameplay from ME1 to ME2 seldom deviated from "go to place and hand out bullet pastries" formula.

 

[Captain Epic]

For every piece of info released on this bloody game, there's a huge flame war in the comments. What is the point of arguing like this? What are you trying to accomplish?

 

[Jumplion]

Love this, anything to piss off traditional gamers amuses me. You can keep your minute level upgrades .01 sec to lift length etc, and exploring baren planets with about 15 textures. I'll take streamlined combat and bioware story over that crap any day.

Or, you know, they could have streamlined combat, a Bioware story, AND RPG elements at the same time.

But RPG elements are kind of an archaic thing for a modern game. Its immersion breaking when you exit a conversation and get a level up icon, "lets go save this guy in a bar fight.... after I decide if I want 6% shield bypass or 6% cooldown reduction". Or to say this pistol does 46 damage but this exact same model except with a VIII after it does 205. Its a gameplay mechanic whos existence makes almost no sense in any story or world.

RPG elements does not only mean percentages, stats, points, and XP. It's just as much gaining new abilities, upgrading a weapon modification like enhanced zoom, or choosing which area you want to explore first. It's about playing the game you want to play it. Not about that extra 25% damage, though that could certainly be an aspect for some people.

I'm seeing a pattern with the "RPG-naysayers", if you will. They seem to think that the "pro-RPG" crowd wants these stupid stats and percentage points to get in the way of the actual game when that is not the case at all. What they (or we, I suppose) want is choices not just in the combat, but in every aspect of the game. The combat is all well and good, but if you only get to hold one type of weapon that you can never upgrade or change until you buy the schematics halfway in the game (I just could not find those submachine guns in ME2, seriously, those things are really annoying to find) then that's pretty limiting for everybody.

They (we) want options. I doubt you'd be against having extra weapon modifications, whether it's increasing damage, ammo clips, or enhanced zoom. It's just better for everyone, I think.

 

[rsvp42]

Then you probably don't like games like SRPGs. That's fine. But I can complain when a game that is marketed as a RPG doesn't have enough RPG.

SRPG? If you're asking if I enjoy games with more of those small increases and piddly point allocations every level, I'll say that I do, but what matters to me is if a game is fun and well-designed with a good story, not if it conforms to some arbitrary list of pure RPG features. I think the term RPG can apply to a wide variety of games, even shooters like Mass Effect. But what makes Mass Effect fun to me are the conversations, companions, and story. Since creating compelling game stories has always been BioWare's mission statement, I think they're doing exactly what they've promised, regardless of their changes under the hood. The fact that gamers have lost sight of what's important and pan a good company over things like point allocation and finally getting past pointless loot systems is sad.

 

[Traun]

People do realize RPG stands for "Role-Playing Game" right? As in the point is a deep story, not a crapload of minor stat increases and equations. As long as the story and character development is still really good I think it's still gonna be a blast.

Nope, RPG games were pretty story-light until recently. For the most part RPG's relied on stats to customize you character and this customization made the experience thrilling and personal. You can talk with your friends how one of you went through one dungeon, and different ways to approach it. It was about exploration and despite having no story what so ever the areas weren't any less engaging.

Bioware pushed RPG's into a heavy story territory, and this is a good thing, however even without a story a Role-Playing game has much to offer (Darklands, if you need an example).

 

[Zeraki]

Look, they tell me the BS Renegade/Paragon system is gone, and I'll be on board. It is probably my biggest complaint along with the dialogue wheel.

I agree about the paragon/renegade system(with Mass Effect 2 mostly), but what problem do you have with the dialogue wheel?

It is detrimental to role-playing. Guessing what my character is going to say isn't fun.

I can respect that stance, even though I do enjoy the dialogue wheel. All I really care about is the story, and that's what I hope they deliver on.

 

[Mahorfeus]

People do realize RPG stands for "Role-Playing Game" right? As in the point is a deep story, not a crapload of minor stat increases and equations. As long as the story and character development is still really good I think it's still gonna be a blast.

However, I'm reserving judgement until I get more concrete information. These vague comments are just plain unhelpful.

This.

Unfortunately, the connotation of the term seems to scream out "MATH!" when in reality, it's about assuming the persona of an otherwise blank slate. As long as Bioware ends the trilogy with a blast (both figurative and literal), I could give less of a damn about what they do to the combat (going by this, anyway).

 

[Andy Chalk]

What if we just reclassify Mass Effect as a shooter? Would that make everyone feel better? That's what ME2 was, after all, a conversational shooter, and it worked out very well.

 

[ZeZZZZevy]

People do realize RPG stands for "Role-Playing Game" right? As in the point is a deep story, not a crapload of minor stat increases and equations. As long as the story and character development is still really good I think it's still gonna be a blast.

Nope, RPG games were pretty story-light until recently. For the most part RPG's relied on stats to customize you character and this customization made the experience thrilling and personal. You can talk with your friends how one of you went through one dungeon, and different ways to approach it. It was about exploration and despite having no story what so ever the areas weren't any less engaging.

Bioware pushed RPG's into a heavy story territory, and this is a good thing, however even without a story a Role-Playing game has much to offer (Darklands, if you need an example).

You're right, I suppose I was being a tad too specific. Regardless, a good RPG doesn't need to have lots of stats or numbers and such.

 

[Jumplion]

What if we just reclassify Mass Effect as a shooter? Would that make everyone feel better? That's what ME2 was, after all, a conversational shooter, and it worked out very well.

I'd rather be delusional and still believe Mass Effect is a deeper, complex, Shooter-RPG hybrid than admit we have yet another space-marine shooter out there.

I'm sure that says something about me, though I'm not sure what...

 

[Duskflamer]

What if we just reclassify Mass Effect as a shooter? Would that make everyone feel better? That's what ME2 was, after all, a conversational shooter, and it worked out very well.

Bioware fans already complained that ME2 was too much shooter and not enough RPG. If it goes so far that you cannot even call it part RPG anymore, there will be massive backlash over it.