No "Meaningless Stat Games" in Mass Effect 3

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Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
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ZeZZZZevy said:
I enjoyed ME2's story, but we're both entitled to our opinions.

As for DA2, that was an entirely different team, so it's fairly irrelevant IMO.

Considering how we don't really have any details at this point anyway, everything is complete conjecture. Also, in general I don't like judging a game based on its developer's past performance, rather, I judge the game based upon its own merits.
the bit where Shepard boards the Collector ship requires at minimum TIM, EDI, Shepard and Joker to all act like complete morons.

And that the whole "Harvest humans to make a baby Reaper" thing is more than a bit stupid. It would be several orders of magnitude easier, faster and more efficient (all things logical machines should be aiming for) to simply build a standard ship and throw a Reaper AI into it, or indoctrinate a slave and have it activate the Citadel relay.

And that the existence of the Collectors themselves is just dumb. There's literally no reason for the Reapers to have kept them alive for the last 50,000 years. It was a waste of resources (again, something nothing that follows logic as computers/AI must would do), especially since they almost certainly would have no need/use for them.

And the fact that Shepard is "the Chosen One!" for some utterly arbitrary reason. There's literally nothing Shepard can do that someone else couldn't. There is no magic desiny/prophecy or whatever the hell else is usually used as the excuse for these plotlines. Thus, there's absolutely no reason for TIM to spend 4 billion credits resurrecting him.

I could keep going all day, but you get the idea.

Yea, I'd much rather judge the game on its own merits, but there's no way to do that. And in that case, it's not unreasonable to take a look at a creator's previous work and extrapolate how their current project will turn out. It's the same thing for any producer, be it for cars, music, movies, whatever.

I'll take M. Night Shamalamalakum as the perfect example. He made a couple really good movies, and he was awesome. Then he made nothing but crap for the last decade. Judging by his past performance, it's not unreasonable to conclude whatever movie he's making now is going to suck, just like the last 4-5.

PS - While I was writing this, I definitely realized just how apt this comparison is. Bioware really is the M Night Shyamalan of the games industry.

Edit: Your partially right about the whole different teams thing, but again, you can generally judge a future product of a company/person/group by their previous work, and Bioware's has been getting steadily worse.
 

Xannieros

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Jul 29, 2008
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Yep that killed all hype for that game. I WANT an RPG with useless stats, its up to the player if they want to go that route. On my infiltrator, all can be used in certain situations. Played on insane difficulty, same scenario.

The combat is gonna be dumbed down so much that its a shooter with "perks". Not RPG stats.
 

Soviet Heavy

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Jan 22, 2010
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Saelune said:
Bioware is getting senile. The king going mad in their later years before being dethrowned.
Are you going to pick him up and throw him off his throne? Heh, DeThrowned.
 

OrdinaryGuy

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Oct 19, 2009
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So, am I the only one who thought that the original "points" system in ME1 was garbage? The bonuses were hardly noticeable except at the first and last ranks, and it didn't even matter because half the abilities/weapon proficiencies were useless anyways. It was more of a chore to level up than a reward.
 

Jabberwock King

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RedEyesBlackGamer said:
I'm so glad that my love of leveling, looting, and tactics is now relegated to "meaningless stat games".
I understand how it is easy to interpret it that way, but I think that the point this statement was trying to make is quite the opposite from what you're thinking. I will concede my next statement as appearing optimistic, but I feel I have good reason to say it.

What Christina Norman is probably trying to say, is that all the things you already love are not "meaningless numbers", and that they will be implemented in a way that has a noticeable impact. For example, adding points into a biotic pull in ME2 had the useful effect of suspending the enemy in the air for a longer period of time as well as pulling them with more force, quickly changing the unit's position.
 

Duskflamer

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OrdinaryGuy said:
So, am I the only one who thought that the original "points" system in ME1 was garbage? The bonuses were hardly noticeable except at the first and last ranks, and it didn't even matter because half the abilities/weapon proficiencies were useless anyways. It was more of a chore to level up than a reward.
No, plenty of us agree that ME2 was a vast improvement over ME1, why do people keep thinking we're comparing these announcements to ME1? Whatever changes Bioware is making are changes from what ME2 had to offer, and if ME2's level up system was a "meaningless stat game," then I'm afraid to know what they think a reasonable level up system looks like.
 

RedEyesBlackGamer

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Jan 23, 2011
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Jabberwock King said:
RedEyesBlackGamer said:
I'm so glad that my love of leveling, looting, and tactics is now relegated to "meaningless stat games".
I understand how it is easy to interpret it that way, but I think that the point this statement was trying to make is quite the opposite from what you're thinking. I will concede my next statement as appearing optimistic, but I feel I have good reason to say it.

What Christina Norman is probably trying to say, is that all the things you already love are not "meaningless numbers", and that they will be implemented in a way that has a noticeable impact. For example, adding points into a biotic pull in ME2 had the useful effect of suspending the enemy in the air for a longer period of time as well as pulling them with more force, quickly changing the unit's position.
Maybe. She could have been more helpful. It seems that their goal is to make ME3 as vague and slightly threatening as possible.
 

Frotality

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Oct 25, 2010
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so what is weapon damage calculated with? what do weapon upgrades do?

you know bioware, it was once said that math is the language in which god wrote the universe. making stupid statements like this to bring in new customers is one thing, but you are now actively promoting the game in the manner of "no really guyss, no hoity-toity RPG stuff here, so come on over and shoot stuff!".

is bioware trolling us? vague announcement after vague announcement denouncing everything their own fans hold dear? will "ME3 plot 'streamlined' to appeal to wider audience" be next? honestly, this is just getting stupid. "wider audience" doesnt usually entail borderline insults to your fans. EA must be trying to emulate activision's success by imitating kotick; thats the only explanation i can think of; this is just pure flamebait and bioware has to know it.
 

Soviet Heavy

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Jan 22, 2010
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Russian_Assassin said:
When did Gears of War have all that? Did you all play some enhanced edition or something?
Well, CD Projekt Red was called up to make an enhanced edition featuring THREE Carmines, and a bunch of apologies over the bad voice acting. Gears of War: Enhanced Edition features over three hours of unseen dialogue, greatly tightening the story. Buy now!



Peach has a dirty Sanchez?
 

Danpascooch

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Apr 16, 2009
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HankMan said:
Andy Chalk said:
"We want to enrich the role-playing aspects of the game, while making sure that they're always meaningful in combat," she said. "We don't want to have any meaningless behind-the-scenes stat games, where the output is very minor in combat. Every single thing you do has a real impact in the battle."
What they mean by that last bit is "Every single thing you do will has a real impact only in the battle."
And I don't think any of the "Stat Games" in Mass Effect were meaningless.
You didn't think planet mining was meaningless? I sure did.

I think people are reading too much into this story, until more information presents itself, I'm going to treat this as if the headline reads "No boring arbitrary bullshit like planet mining"
 

ZeZZZZevy

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Apr 3, 2011
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Agayek said:
ZeZZZZevy said:
I enjoyed ME2's story, but we're both entitled to our opinions.

As for DA2, that was an entirely different team, so it's fairly irrelevant IMO.

Considering how we don't really have any details at this point anyway, everything is complete conjecture. Also, in general I don't like judging a game based on its developer's past performance, rather, I judge the game based upon its own merits.
the bit where Shepard boards the Collector ship requires at minimum TIM, EDI, Shepard and Joker to all act like complete morons.

And that the whole "Harvest humans to make a baby Reaper" thing is more than a bit stupid. It would be several orders of magnitude easier, faster and more efficient (all things logical machines should be aiming for) to simply build a standard ship and throw a Reaper AI into it, or indoctrinate a slave and have it activate the Citadel relay.

And that the existence of the Collectors themselves is just dumb. There's literally no reason for the Reapers to have kept them alive for the last 50,000 years. It was a waste of resources (again, something nothing that follows logic as computers/AI must would do), especially since they almost certainly would have no need/use for them.

And the fact that Shepard is "the Chosen One!" for some utterly arbitrary reason. There's literally nothing Shepard can do that someone else couldn't. There is no magic desiny/prophecy or whatever the hell else is usually used as the excuse for these plotlines. Thus, there's absolutely no reason for TIM to spend 4 billion credits resurrecting him.

I could keep going all day, but you get the idea.

Yea, I'd much rather judge the game on its own merits, but there's no way to do that. And in that case, it's not unreasonable to take a look at a creator's previous work and extrapolate how their current project will turn out. It's the same thing for any producer, be it for cars, music, movies, whatever.

I'll take M. Night Shamalamalakum as the perfect example. He made a couple really good movies, and he was awesome. Then he made nothing but crap for the last decade. Judging by his past performance, it's not unreasonable to conclude whatever movie he's making now is going to suck, just like the last 4-5.

PS - While I was writing this, I definitely realized just how apt this comparison is. Bioware really is the M Night Shyamalan of the games industry.

Edit: Your partially right about the whole different teams thing, but again, you can generally judge a future product of a company/person/group by their previous work, and Bioware's has been getting steadily worse.
I never really read into the story that much, but thinking about it you do have a point. As for the past performance issue, I still think that while it can give you a good idea, it's still not absolute.
 

Saelune

Trump put kids in cages!
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Mar 8, 2011
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Soviet Heavy said:
Saelune said:
Bioware is getting senile. The king going mad in their later years before being dethrowned.
Are you going to pick him up and throw him off his throne? Heh, DeThrowned.
I know you are a nice person, so I wont be mean, but I get really irked when people mock me for typing something wrong, usually something stupid that is rarely seen written out.
 

Compatriot Block

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Jan 28, 2009
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mjc0961 said:
So, I have to ask. Where did all of you guys get a copy of Mass Effect 3 from? I would sure like one. Then I can play it and join in this discussion about how they ruined the game by making it appeal to more people and what exactly "meaningless behind-the-scenes stat games" means in terms of what they changed. Because all I've got right now is a couple of articles that are so vague that they don't really tell me anything. So please, tell me where I can get a copy of the game so I can play it and join this conversation withe the rest of you.

...Unless none of you played it either, and are all just getting your panties in a twist over some vague statements that currently have no meaning. That would certainly be silly, wouldn't it?
No point, man. The only way that some people will stop screaming that it's ruined forever is if BioWare just stops releasing information entirely.

The constant rage is so disappointing. There is a difference between "I am concerned that this is a change that I won't enjoy," and "BioWare sucks, Mass Effect sucks, etc." And at this point, Mass Effect 3 could come out packaged with a damn dirt-to-diamonds convertor and the indisputably best game-play and story ever, and some people would still be crying "Ruined forever!"

Before I'm quoted again, I will repeat that there is a big difference between reasonable concern and baseless complaining.
 

uc.asc

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Jun 27, 2009
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cursedseishi said:
So, all those bloody points you had to spend just to be able to use a sniper rifle was meaningful? And if you didn't have the skill, you couldn't use it worth crap? That's meaningful and fun?
Actually, yeah. I liked that in ME1 you would gradually specialize into a playstyle you liked over the course of the game, with weapons or skills you used and invested in gradually becoming much more effective. There were advantages to investing a lot in one skill or spreading points over multiple skills, and enough options that you had to make decisions more involved than what to max out next. Even within each class you could make multiple builds which were effective in different ways.

Using the example of sniper rifles to compare the two games, in ME1 they were initially tricky to use, yet effective with some luck, and became devastating and highly accurate over the course of the game with investment in the skill and appropriate weapon configuration. In ME2 you dropped a few points into the rifle skill at the beginning and spent the rest of the game grinding instakill headshots.

Building a character around your play style and configuring it to your liking makes that character yours in a way that masterchief never can be. I don't enjoy dicking with stats much, but being able to configure a character (and their weapons, please) in a way which is specific to you really adds to the game.

ME1 accomplished this. Borderlands, which had a very different skill system, also accomplished this. ME2 didn't.
 

Agayek

Ravenous Gormandizer
Oct 23, 2008
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ZeZZZZevy said:
I never really read into the story that much, but thinking about it you do have a point. As for the past performance issue, I still think that while it can give you a good idea, it's still not absolute.
Of course it's not absolute. It is not unreasonable to assume trends will continue though. There's no way to say whether or not ME3 will be good at this point. They may somehow pull a winner out of their ass. It's just not the way their games have been going lately.

We'll see next year sometime. I really want it to be good, and I'm almost certainly going to play it, if only to see the conclusion, but I don't have a whole lot of hope left for it.
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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Sep 4, 2009
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combat in ME 2 SUCKED BALLZ, it was 2/3 of the game and it was totally boring. The only remotely interesting scenario was when you had to stay by your psionic dude in the collector base.

If I wanted to play gears of war I would join a frat and tell everyone my dad owns a dealership.

I have a better idea though, how about leveling choices that have an affect OUTSIDE of combat, you know like back in the day when story and gameplay were at least slightly integrated....

ME2 really was the generic hollywood blockbuster of gaming. Pretty to look at, polished, well executed, and ultimately forgettable.

Can anyone name a scene in ME2 that was nearly as cool or memorable as force choking bastila's mom or mind controllign the wookie into killing his best friend in KOTOR 1?

the whole stupid

Reapers are made from
PEOPLE!!1!!!oneone!!
thing is so scholcky it could easily come from a bad 80s 3d movie
 

Sandytimeman

Brain Freeze...yay!
Jan 14, 2011
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Agayek said:


This accurately summarizes my feeling on this issue. Why the hell do RPG developers keep removing the RPG from their games?
Same here, I'm just glad this is the end of the ME games so I don't end up playing a full FPS in ME4
 

Duskflamer

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Nov 8, 2009
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Sandytimeman said:
Agayek said:
img

This accurately summarizes my feeling on this issue. Why the hell do RPG developers keep removing the RPG from their games?
Same here, I'm just glad this is the end of the ME trilogy so I don't end up playing a full FPS until ME4
Fix'd. I recall Bioware saying that they wanted to continue making games in the Mass Effect setting once the trilogy is done, certainly enough background details to have more stories in. And in the direction they're currently going, there's good reason to think it would be full out FPS at that point.
 

SovietSecrets

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Nov 16, 2008
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Haters gonna hate...before the game even comes out. Looking forward to ME 3 and everything it brings.