No "Meaningless Stat Games" in Mass Effect 3
- Thread starter Andy Chalk
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You know, aside from the Diplomacy and Intimidate skills, which got replaced wholesale with the Paragon/Renegade mechanic in ME2, meaning you didn't have to bother filing skill points into them.Eldarion said:
So it's only starting at ME2 that skills are entirely combat.
this. iirc S.T.A.L.K.E.R: Shadow Of chernobyl as well as its prequel and sequel kept the stats and numbers to a minimum and that was great as a FPS/RPG hybridZeZZZZevy said:
just sayin'
I'm pleased that combat is being further improved, but I want better armor customization, not being railed into either being the manifestation of Christ or Satan, exploration, and a story that didn't leave me facepalming at the ending.
I must be crazy, because no part of this made me think that they're stripping away RPG mechanics. They just said that numbers will matter more, not go away completely.
For instance, in Mass Effect 1, you couldn't really tell the difference in putting 1 point into Assault Rifles to deal 3% more damage, or increasing the radius of Overload by 2% or what have you.
What I got from this is that whenever you tweak something (gear, weapons, powers, whatever) you'll see a difference immediately, and it'll be distinct and noticeable (which I'm all for, more varied gameplay and strategies and what not). Tell me if I'm wrong in this, because obviously everyone else is seeing this as executive meddling and the death of RPGs and what have you.
For instance, in Mass Effect 1, you couldn't really tell the difference in putting 1 point into Assault Rifles to deal 3% more damage, or increasing the radius of Overload by 2% or what have you.
What I got from this is that whenever you tweak something (gear, weapons, powers, whatever) you'll see a difference immediately, and it'll be distinct and noticeable (which I'm all for, more varied gameplay and strategies and what not). Tell me if I'm wrong in this, because obviously everyone else is seeing this as executive meddling and the death of RPGs and what have you.
you know whenever there is some news about something in a favored franchise getting changed, something that the fans might have a bit of query towards, someone has to always come and post something like this, always!Compatriot Block said:
I'm not a mass effect fan, i've never played any of the games but i feel if you are gonna dish out 60 bucks for game, you should be left with a good feeling in your chest when you are done playing. Everyone has expectations of the games that they love so much. That's why they might be worried that some of the things they love about their favorite games are getting removed to appeal to a wider audience so as to make more money and from recent news reports of the game it seems like that is a possibility.
My personal opinion though? i think it's too late to want to draw in more audiences now, by now people that are going to buy mass effect 3 no matter how it turns out are the fans of the series, the last entry in the franchise is not the time to change and appeal to a wider audience, this is the time to give a proper send off for the series, give the fans what they want. But because it is the last entry, they want to make as much money from the franchise before it goes to eternal slumber, that's what it seems like.
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109781-EA-Tweaking-Mass-Effect-3-to-Appeal-to-Wider-Market
Combat is one thing... Mass Effect's actual combat should feel more like a shooter because comparing ME1's combat to ME2's... ME2's is better. A minority like the more numbers game style combat and don't get me wrong, a good number crunching game can be great fun... but Mass Effect played better more like a shooter.
If they can keep the simple shooting and power mechanics but KEEP the weapon and armor customization from ME1... somehow finding a balance between the first game's pages of repeat inventory and the second one's straight up linear upgrades I'll be a most happy camper.
If they can keep the simple shooting and power mechanics but KEEP the weapon and armor customization from ME1... somehow finding a balance between the first game's pages of repeat inventory and the second one's straight up linear upgrades I'll be a most happy camper.
It's EA. The same thing happened to Ultima 8 and Origin Studios long ago. A great RPG franchise became a platform game for mass appeal. Everything EA touches in this genre turns to crap.
@Andy; be mindful taht Mass Effect 2 was nearly complete before EA's slithery genticles found their way into BioWare, so their influence was minimal in that regard. This is a wholly different scenario.
I hope this feels less linear, that resource gathering actually has some imagination behind it this time, and that my choices from earlier games don't amount to more emails. That was such a cop-out.
@Andy; be mindful taht Mass Effect 2 was nearly complete before EA's slithery genticles found their way into BioWare, so their influence was minimal in that regard. This is a wholly different scenario.
I hope this feels less linear, that resource gathering actually has some imagination behind it this time, and that my choices from earlier games don't amount to more emails. That was such a cop-out.
Or, to phrase it differently, the play style you prefer is not highly dependent on specialization or skills planning. After playing ME1 several times I eventually tried the soldier, and found that the assault rifle kills my enjoyment of the game because it makes everything else unnecessary. High damage, effective at close range, effective at sniping range... you don't need any skills, or any other weapons.cursedseishi said:
Since most people do play soldier, this probably affects my perspective on the issue in a big way. I prefer more varied gameplay, so I pick classes with weaknesses but interesting skills, which take work to be made highly effective.
I don't really care. I want to know if the story RPG aspects are improved.
That has always been the most important part of an RPG for me.
That has always been the most important part of an RPG for me.
Nice to see Bioware and EA squatting down to take another big runny shit all over a once great franchise. I guess wiping their asses on the Dragon Age franchise wasn't good enough and now Mass Effect is in their sights.
I understand things like three, sometimes even two, digit numbers can be confusing to some people but how about we let those folks entertain themselves with the already massive piles of homogenized low brow entertainment and stop gutting what once were great franchises in the name of the all mighty dollar.
Honestly, if this is what I can expect from Bioware now that EA is at the helm then I say FUCK Bioware, FUCK EA, and FUCK the sloped brow bottom of the barrel lowest common denominator type of morons they are trying to attract with these bullshit changes! They can all feel free to go bugger each other with hot pokers for all I care because that will probably provide me with more entertainment than any game Bioware will release from here on out.
I understand things like three, sometimes even two, digit numbers can be confusing to some people but how about we let those folks entertain themselves with the already massive piles of homogenized low brow entertainment and stop gutting what once were great franchises in the name of the all mighty dollar.
Honestly, if this is what I can expect from Bioware now that EA is at the helm then I say FUCK Bioware, FUCK EA, and FUCK the sloped brow bottom of the barrel lowest common denominator type of morons they are trying to attract with these bullshit changes! They can all feel free to go bugger each other with hot pokers for all I care because that will probably provide me with more entertainment than any game Bioware will release from here on out.
I think what gets lost in these endless debates over whether Bioware are 'dumbing down' the RPG element of their games is what the APPEAL of those elements actually are. Stat games, as this fellow has likened them, play a huge role in the old school Western RPGs, because when the game is both complex and challenging it becomes very engrossing to explore the game across multiple playthroughs with different characters to see how you do with different builds. The key is that it has to be complex, so that one is presented with meaningful choices to make - do I pump DEX to increase this character's AC, or CON to increase their hitpoints etc - and challenging enough that if you find yourself getting through encounters by the skin of your teeth it becomes a tense journey to the next level or the next piece of equipment so that you can hopefully even the odds.
This is what's currently lacking from the Mass Effect series. It was fine to begin with, as you had to make meaningful decisions about different kinds of armour, weapons, upgrades (less so for stats, unfortunately). But Mass Effect 2 removed any sense of this stat challenge by giving you essentially two different varieties of each type of gun, about two different pieces for each place you wear armour (and none for your squad members) and a bunch of generic upgrades for each weapon. The trouble with these upgrades was that there really is no discernible effect on acquiring one, because encounters seem to be balanced more around cover mechanics and matching weapons/powers to armour types.
In other words, it's balanced around shooter gameplay. That doesn't make it a bad game, it's still a lot of fun if you like that style of gameplay (which I do, although I'm less crazy about cover than general shooting mechanics). But you've got to be able to sympathise with longtime Bioware fans who grew up on their stat crunching games, and understand why they feel abandoned: because everytime someone complains, they get told, 'Oh, it's still an RPG, it has dialogue and choices'. That may make it an RPG, but it's a watered down RPG. It's like giving a bagel with eggs and ham to someone who's eaten eggs benedict their entire life and telling them it's still the same thing without the hollandaise. They're going to feel short changed, and they have every right to.
That said, what our friend was saying is that they're getting rid of 'meaningless' stat games. Which is something I'd approve of if it didn't seem like ALL stats in Mass Effect 2 were meaningless.
This is what's currently lacking from the Mass Effect series. It was fine to begin with, as you had to make meaningful decisions about different kinds of armour, weapons, upgrades (less so for stats, unfortunately). But Mass Effect 2 removed any sense of this stat challenge by giving you essentially two different varieties of each type of gun, about two different pieces for each place you wear armour (and none for your squad members) and a bunch of generic upgrades for each weapon. The trouble with these upgrades was that there really is no discernible effect on acquiring one, because encounters seem to be balanced more around cover mechanics and matching weapons/powers to armour types.
In other words, it's balanced around shooter gameplay. That doesn't make it a bad game, it's still a lot of fun if you like that style of gameplay (which I do, although I'm less crazy about cover than general shooting mechanics). But you've got to be able to sympathise with longtime Bioware fans who grew up on their stat crunching games, and understand why they feel abandoned: because everytime someone complains, they get told, 'Oh, it's still an RPG, it has dialogue and choices'. That may make it an RPG, but it's a watered down RPG. It's like giving a bagel with eggs and ham to someone who's eaten eggs benedict their entire life and telling them it's still the same thing without the hollandaise. They're going to feel short changed, and they have every right to.
That said, what our friend was saying is that they're getting rid of 'meaningless' stat games. Which is something I'd approve of if it didn't seem like ALL stats in Mass Effect 2 were meaningless.