Obsidian Does it Again

[Da Joz]

Ive been playing New Vegas and haven't run into a single major glitch.

 

[spectrenihlus]

Eh it's a bethesda open world game. They are always super glitchy when they first come out.

The only glitches ive seen are the fucking deathclaws >.> oh wait, thats obsidian being retarded i hate deathclaws so....

Oh i copletely agree.

Obsidian dev: I know let's make it so that Deathclaws have a million health are armored and can kill you in one swipe.

Obsidian dev2: That's brilliant and lets have them be grouped upall together so that you have to fight 10 of them at the same time.

 

[GloatingSwine]

Here's a game.

Name me the last Bethesda game that didn't have apocalyptic bugs in it when it first game out.

Spoiler

That's right, sports fans, the answer is actually none of them. As far back as TES: Arena Bethesda, the publisher, who would be carrying at least some of the QA burden, have been releasing buggy and unfinished games. Hell, Daggerfall was so badly bugged you could never complete the game until a patch was released to make a game critical NPC actually spawn

 

[Fumbleumble]

Hmmm. To be honest I think we're riding Obsidian a bit too hard here. I actually think a big part of their issue is that they have had a horrendous string of luck in finding the right publishers and business partners.

As I understand the issue, their problem is very similar to what happened with "Troika" in that they tend to want to make games for a mature audience, and when they actually develop at an "M" level as opposed to a "T" level being presented as an "M" level, the people backing them tend to freak out. This leads to a lot of abandoned code, and in many cases with them going back to previous builds of a game shortly before release when people outside of their team who have a say, tell them to basically cut out integral parts of the content.

While it's primarily a story about Troika, there was a big issue with how Atari forced them to basically gut "Temple Of Elemental Evil" because of a lot of content that was based on quests out of a whorehouse. That whorehouse still exists in the code, along with most of the quest assets, and there have been patches to unlock it. Supposedly the infamous "gay pirate dentist" bit was a deliberate act of rebellion on their part right before their company went under.

Allegedly something very similar happened with "Neverwinter Nights 2" where several entire romance questlines were removed from the game, including a lot of material featuring a certain Tiefling thief. Not to mention the oft-commented on bit about how the Neverwinter festhall transformed into a dancehall in the second game.

Bethesda is one of those companies that used to have something of a reputation for making fairly risque games and not being afraid to push the envelope. While the graphics weren't great, some might remember the "adult filters" present in "Arena" and "Daggerfall". If you had them turned off you'd run into NPCs (albiet unmoving stilled ones) in various compromised positions and the like as you moved through the game.

Bethesda on the other hand pretty much lost any guts they had, and started cow-towing to the ESRB and FCC not too long ago. There was this big thing about them absolutly freaking out over fan-made nude and sex patches because they got attention from "the authorities".

Given the kinds of things we've seen from the people making up Obsidian in the past, and the existance of things like "FISTO" it does make me wonder how much was cut from the game, and if they were again forced to go back to an earlier build in the 11th hour.

I think Obsidian's problem might be that it's simply difficult to be a developer of games for a Mature audience, in an industry currently infested with spinelessness. Something that is going to get worse if The Supreme Court winds up giving the goverment the abillity to violate our freedom of speech when it comes to video games.

Truthfully, I think we'll see better quality from Obsidian if they wind up ever being given total creative control over their own product, and no producers standing over their shoulder, getting all miffed when an "M" rated game actually winds up being well... Mature.

Sorry mate.. I'm really not looking to flame you... but this is utter ROT :/

MAYBE.. I would have accepted this as an excuse (and that's really all your post amounts too :/) one or two games back... but for them to royally screw up every game they've ever been involved with is just simply too much of a coincidence..... it's their work ethic that is wrong here.. nothing else... after so much, as you put it, 'bad luck' /) you really have to start calling a spade a fucking shovel...

..and as for 'Freedom of Speech'... that CERTAINLY doesn't cover retail outlets selling 'mature' material to those NOT of an age to buy it.. (which is what the legislation is all about...if parents are too ignortant and lazy to monitor what material their kids are exposed to then someone has to do it..full stop.. nothing even resembling a first amendment issue there)

When we come to the subject of control over their projects.. they get no less than most other companies of their size and they still have the worst rep and poorest workable quality around... so that doesn't cut it as an excuse either.

As for the 'too difficult to produce mature material' argument..KotOR2 certainly wasn't mature.. and neither was NWN2.. and they were a bloody mess...Anyway, why would it be so 'difficult' for them to make a mature game when The Witcher's CD Pojekt Red can handle it acceptable well, and Ob have orders of magnitude more experience in game making than them?.. is it possible they would be trying to make a 'mature' game for a market in which it is inappropriate (see the KotOR2 post).. That boils down to being their own fault too.

The fact is.. Ob just can't cut it in the modern gamemaking environment.. and because of that they are very deserving of becoming extinct added to their existing irrelevence.

Nicely worded post though.. just not very indicative of the realities of the situation... a bit too much wishful thinking and willingness to pass the buck.

 

[Slangeveld]

Problem with KOTOR 2 is that Lucas Arts decided the game world and storyline was too grim and too open. (Gay relations, civilians dying, no good or evil, just a lot of Gray) This apparently wasn't right with him/them so they had to re-make a lot of stuff in a few months on a low budget with a small team. Ouch.

Alpha Protocol was an awesome (but again low budged) game. Loved the choice elements. One of the only "RPGS' I played without walkthrough to get 'the best option'. I just ran with it and enjoyed it, apart from the weird AI and increasingly vague storyline.

But Fall Out New Vegas? What the f... Dx Not happy with this. I had 3 crashes in an hour, and this is on the steam version.

Probably will get fixed though. But as you said, did they even test it before releasing?
Slang-

 

[Eclectic Dreck]

Personally, I have found the game no more buggy than Fallout 3, and only marginally less stable. I would certainly like the game to be better, but I'd have to be insane and stupid to expect such a thing. The base game was buggy and it was expanded upon by a company known to take a working product and make it buggier.

 

[Fumbleumble]

Problem with KOTOR 2 is that Lucas Arts decided the game world and storyline was too grim and too open. (Gay relations, civilians dying, no good or evil, just a lot of Gray) This apparently wasn't right with him/them so they had to re-make a lot of stuff in a few months on a low budget with a small team. Ouch.

(IF this is the case) how is this NOT a poor work ethic?.... making a wholly inappropriate game for a wholly well known franchise.. and why didn't they realise that this is exactly NOT what Lucas would would accept as a direction his creation?

IF the problems arose from a redesign because of this then it all STILL comes down to poor judgement and a complete misunderstanding of what was being asked of them.

Either way, piss poor and badly handled.... and in the end a buggy, broken, half finished mess.

 

[flaming_ninja]

This is why I am going to wait for the GOTY edition, this and the savings I'll make.

 

[Dectilon]

I've played for 20 or so hours and it hasn't crashed for me yet. F3 crashed constantly for me. Also, the writing in this game isn't making me want to kill myself, something F3 frequently did. That said, Obsidian need better tech guys, and they need them soon. People are missing out on some great games just because they review badly.

Alpha Protocol for instance is like Mercenaries 2 or Bionic Commando. Poor reviews because of the technical side, but if there was a fun scale they'd all get high scores.

 

[TsunamiWombat]

It's still way fucking better then Fallout 3

 

[CptJackRabbit]

I don't want my $50 back - the game is great so far, it's like Fallout 3 but with sane dialogue, interesting quests and lots of meaningful choices. And it crushed only once in about 10 hours of playtime.

There are rough edges here and there, but I gladly close my eyes on them - they are the minor problems which don't ruin the game, at least if you don't encounter some serious bug.

It's just too damn hard to achieve for New Vegas-like game the level of polish of Mass Effect 2 (which is probably the best RPG in terms of production values). ME2 is very short, super-linear and controllable.
Every movement in the cutscene, smallest detail, camera angle - it's hard and expensive, but possible for (relatively) small RPG with little to no consequences for the game world (I love Mass Effect 2, but most of decisions just don't cause noticeable changes - world always stays the same. And quests are scarce).

On the other hand we've got New Vegas with open world, lots of NPCs (most of which don't just stand in one place for ages, awaiting player's visit - they simulate simple sleep-work-eat cycle or even roam the surroundings), many quests with several solutions which affect environment, other NPCs and player's relations with different factions.

It's insanely hard to debug such a game, so naturally with constrains of time and money we don't get a perfect product immediately after release, but I'd rather buy slightly unpolished Fallout - New Vegas than stable, linear and uninspiring grinding of Gothic 4.

Mass Effect 2 was great because it had elements for both the shooter crowd and RPG fans to enjoy. And if you loved both, you probably loved Mass Effect 2. That being said, yea, it wasn't the most freedom-giving of all Bioware's games, nor could you completely customize your character. And in the sense of their overall "RPGness," it would be Fallout New Vegas > Mass Effect 2 > Fallout 3.

*****Fallout 3 just had too many issues that broke the game. And I'm not talking about bugs. Some perks were just ridiculously overpowered, everybody reached max level halfway through the game, and it was never challenging in the least.*******

New Vegas corrects all these things. It's balanced well and consistently challenging (especially on hardcore), you can play 20-30 hours and only be level 13 or so, and it FEELS more like an RPG. There's a lot more to be done in terms of character uniqueness.

You are aware that almost right after you start the game, you have to play for all of maybe 2 hours in New Vegas before you can have infinite caps and lvl 30 character with a 100 in 6 different stats, right? by my 3rd hour into the game, I was as maxed out as possible, with over 400 stimpacks and doctor bags each.

The same was true for FO3, and Oblivion and whatever... built in cheats basically from easily fixed glitches.

 

[Something Amyss]

I didn't think paying to be a Beta tester was anything new in the console world.

 

[SamElliot'sMustache]

Can't say I've encountered any game-breaking crashes or bugs in New Vegas yet, but I seem to have a staggering amount of luck when it comes to Obsidian's games (had one freeze glitch in Alpha Protocol that occured if I tried to turn on the TV while it was auto-saving). It seems most of the complaints I've seen come from PC gamers, and since many of the guys at Obsidian got their start in PC gaming, you'd think they'd try and get that right, at least. Can't defend them at all for not doing so.

I'm enjoying my tour of the Mojave Wasteland, but I'm keeping the horror stories of their other games in mind when I do.

 

[SomebodyNowhere]

I'm playing on the PC version and they've fixed the reverting saves glitch(thank god for that cause I forgot to do a hard save after one of my sessions yesterday). The game does have some amusing glitches like the invisible computers at the Mojave Outpost, but when I get ambushed by enemies that havn't loaded yet or were formerly stuck in a wall where I couldn't see them I do get pretty frustrated with the game.

 

[CJ1145]

Never seen anyone so quick to dismiss Neverwinter Nights 2 and Mask of the Betrayer. It had rough edges, yes, but it was hardly "broken."

Mask of the Betrayer was ok. Neverwinter Nights 2 was thoroughly broken and made everything you did so utterly pointless you just wanted to punch Obsidian as a whole in the nuts.

Good points Shamus, I agree quite wholeheartedly.

 

[Addendum_Forthcoming]

Damn straight Shamus! Albeit I disagree with the expansions to NWN 2 ... Mask of the Betrayer was kinda interesting and fun.... though I understand it creates deep schisms in the rpg and d&d circles of whether it's actually good or not.

... But damn straight all the same ....

Bethesda games aren't exactly bug free, but I can forgive them solely for Morrowind (the only Elder Scrolls I still regularly play). You forgive them for the sheer immensity of what they provide. But Obsidian tries to emulate knowing full well it can't.

But F:NV is flat out broken .... it's not just buggy. Buggy is fine because it's opnly a patch or two away from being fixed. No. F:NV is broken. The biggest problem with videogames is unlike furniture you can't see how broken it is or give it a thorough test-run (no, demos don't count). A couch you can sit in, look at the springs and base, once you test it out you pretty much know what you're going to get. With games all you have is a taste of what could be ...

 

[The Bandit]

This seems like as good as place as any to ask...

Outside of bugginess, is New Vegas any good? Mainly the story? Or is it just as "good" as Fallout 3?

I wasn't a huge fan of Fallout 3, mainly because I thought the story was terrible, but I really liked the environments and some of the combat parts were OK, so I would be willing to give New Vegas a shot if the story was good.

 

[PhunkyPhazon]

The only Obsidian game I've played is KotoR 2, which I quite like despite the ending. (Thank god for that restoration mod. It still isn't perfect, but it at least makes a bit more sense thanks to that) And for KotoR 2's problems, I do indeed blame Lucasarts. Obsidian even offered to release a mass content patch to restore all the missing plotlines and dialogues, but Lucasarts wouldn't let them for some incomprehensible reason. Gwaaaaaaaah!

 

[BenzSmoke]

Personally, I have found the game no more buggy than Fallout 3, and only marginally less stable. I would certainly like the game to be better, but I'd have to be insane and stupid to expect such a thing. The base game was buggy and it was expanded upon by a company known to take a working product and make it buggier.

Don't say that! We have the right to ask for more for our hard earned money. Other companies produce games with significantly less bugs and sell them for $50 - $60. Bethesda/Obsidian expect you to pay the same for their game with bugs up the a*s. Why should we pay the same price for a worse product?