Obsidian Does it Again

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high_castle

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Apr 15, 2009
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This would be why I waited to pick up New Vegas. I like Obsidian. Or at least, I want to like them. They might commit some colossal fuck ups at time, but they do just enough right to make me want to give them another chance. It's like an abusive relationship, really. They beat us over and over and over again with bad gameplay decisions and buggy execution, then hold out a glimmering shining moment of superb storytelling or characterization that makes me stick with them. I have this love-hate relationship with most of their games, but for me Alpha Protocol was the final straw. This was their own IP, it had been delayed constantly so they could fix things, and it still shipped broken. Not cool. So I waited on New Vegas, and it probably looks like the smart decision.
 

procyonlotor

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Jun 12, 2010
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Sad that so many people are having so much trouble with the game. I myself have only experienced a couple of crashes besides the odd graphics glitch.

Also, I did encounter a broken side quest. Other than that my experience was pretty damn enjoyable.

Probably because I wasn't really pestered by bugs or constant crashing.

lumenadducere said:
I just want to say that I really think you should play the Mask of the Betrayer expansion for NWN 2. I think it's the best thing they've put out yet, though I haven't played New Vegas - waiting for next month's paycheck. But I really, really liked MotB.
NWN2 and MotB should really be played in sequence. I think that's what Obsidian had in mind from the start with that damn cliffhanger of an ending.

(And I haven't quite enjoyed any RPG as much as NWN2.)
 

TheDrunkNinja

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Five hours.

Five fucking hours.

That's how much I lost when I realized all my saves went back to Doc Mitchell's house in the very beginning. Went from forum to forum, found good advice from people who knew what they were talking about. Nothing. I wasn't getting my saves back. It was far too late.

Obsidian needs a good kick in the ass when it comes to quality control. With a sharpened ice-skate.
 

jaketheripper

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spectrenihlus said:
Eh it's a bethesda open world game. They are always super glitchy when they first come out.
The only glitches ive seen are the fucking deathclaws >.> oh wait, thats obsidian being retarded :p i hate deathclaws so....
 

Xero Scythe

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Aug 7, 2009
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yo, guys, check this out. I found it on the Bethesda blog (Read Bold):

Bethesda Blog
Oct. 22, 2010

Wanted to let you guys know that Obsidian and Bethesda are continuing to work to address issues reported with Fallout: New Vegas. Overnight, a new game update went up on Xbox 360, resolving a number of quest and scripting issues - similar to the update we reported on Wednesday for PC players. To get the update, players will want to make sure their Xbox 360 is connected online.

A newer update is up on Steam as well - fixing issues players reported with game saves. In our forums, senior producer Jason Bergman explains the update:

"We are also pleased to say that we have just released a second fix for PC users to address the autosave and quicksave issues that some people were encountering. That particular issue was never seen prior to release and it was extremely difficult to reproduce reliably, even after the game had launched. In order to fix this problem we have had to disable Steam Cloud functionality. It has been turned off, and we won't turn it back on until we're absolutely sure it will not cause any more problems. Please restart your Steam client to make sure you get the update."

As we have more details on game updates/patches, we'll keep you posted.

Update: We've received word that the PS3 update for New Vegas is live in Europe.

http://bethblog.com/index.php/2010/10/22/an-update-on-updates/


Well, that's interesting.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Hmmm. To be honest I think we're riding Obsidian a bit too hard here. I actually think a big part of their issue is that they have had a horrendous string of luck in finding the right publishers and business partners.

As I understand the issue, their problem is very similar to what happened with "Troika" in that they tend to want to make games for a mature audience, and when they actually develop at an "M" level as opposed to a "T" level being presented as an "M" level, the people backing them tend to freak out. This leads to a lot of abandoned code, and in many cases with them going back to previous builds of a game shortly before release when people outside of their team who have a say, tell them to basically cut out integral parts of the content.

While it's primarily a story about Troika, there was a big issue with how Atari forced them to basically gut "Temple Of Elemental Evil" because of a lot of content that was based on quests out of a whorehouse. That whorehouse still exists in the code, along with most of the quest assets, and there have been patches to unlock it. Supposedly the infamous "gay pirate dentist" bit was a deliberate act of rebellion on their part right before their company went under.

Allegedly something very similar happened with "Neverwinter Nights 2" where several entire romance questlines were removed from the game, including a lot of material featuring a certain Tiefling thief. Not to mention the oft-commented on bit about how the Neverwinter festhall transformed into a dancehall in the second game. :p

Bethesda is one of those companies that used to have something of a reputation for making fairly risque games and not being afraid to push the envelope. While the graphics weren't great, some might remember the "adult filters" present in "Arena" and "Daggerfall". If you had them turned off you'd run into NPCs (albiet unmoving stilled ones) in various compromised positions and the like as you moved through the game.

Bethesda on the other hand pretty much lost any guts they had, and started cow-towing to the ESRB and FCC not too long ago. There was this big thing about them absolutly freaking out over fan-made nude and sex patches because they got attention from "the authorities".

Given the kinds of things we've seen from the people making up Obsidian in the past, and the existance of things like "FISTO" it does make me wonder how much was cut from the game, and if they were again forced to go back to an earlier build in the 11th hour.

I think Obsidian's problem might be that it's simply difficult to be a developer of games for a Mature audience, in an industry currently infested with spinelessness. Something that is going to get worse if The Supreme Court winds up giving the goverment the abillity to violate our freedom of speech when it comes to video games.

Truthfully, I think we'll see better quality from Obsidian if they wind up ever being given total creative control over their own product, and no producers standing over their shoulder, getting all miffed when an "M" rated game actually winds up being well... Mature.
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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This is why I'm glad I don't have enough disposable income to buy this game at launch. By the time I get my hands on a copy, it should be patched, either by people at Obsidian or Bethesda, or by modders.

And yeah, PC only this time. After the fi...............................................asco I went through to play Fallo..............................ut 3 on my Playsta.............................................tion 3 with all the free...................................zing problems, I'm sure as hell not getting a console version of New Vegas.
 

RelexCryo

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Oct 21, 2008
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Shamus Young said:
Experienced Points: Obsidian Does it Again

Did Obsidian even test Fallout: New Vegas before releasing it?

Read Full Article
Awesome article Shamus. Don't stop making these...you manage to phrase things better than any other game journalist I know, including Jerry/Tycho. And that's saying something.

"That's like winning the lottery and getting hit by a car. A car driven by Obsidian."

Hee hee hee...

I really love the design Bethesda uses. It emphasizes immersion.
 

spectrenihlus

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jaketheripper said:
spectrenihlus said:
Eh it's a bethesda open world game. They are always super glitchy when they first come out.
The only glitches ive seen are the fucking deathclaws >.> oh wait, thats obsidian being retarded :p i hate deathclaws so....
Oh i copletely agree.

Obsidian dev: I know let's make it so that Deathclaws have a million health are armored and can kill you in one swipe.

Obsidian dev2: That's brilliant and lets have them be grouped upall together so that you have to fight 10 of them at the same time.
 

GloatingSwine

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Nov 10, 2007
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Here's a game.

Name me the last Bethesda game that didn't have apocalyptic bugs in it when it first game out.

That's right, sports fans, the answer is actually none of them. As far back as TES: Arena Bethesda, the publisher, who would be carrying at least some of the QA burden, have been releasing buggy and unfinished games. Hell, Daggerfall was so badly bugged you could never complete the game until a patch was released to make a game critical NPC actually spawn
 

Fumbleumble

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Oct 17, 2010
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Therumancer said:
Hmmm. To be honest I think we're riding Obsidian a bit too hard here. I actually think a big part of their issue is that they have had a horrendous string of luck in finding the right publishers and business partners.

As I understand the issue, their problem is very similar to what happened with "Troika" in that they tend to want to make games for a mature audience, and when they actually develop at an "M" level as opposed to a "T" level being presented as an "M" level, the people backing them tend to freak out. This leads to a lot of abandoned code, and in many cases with them going back to previous builds of a game shortly before release when people outside of their team who have a say, tell them to basically cut out integral parts of the content.

While it's primarily a story about Troika, there was a big issue with how Atari forced them to basically gut "Temple Of Elemental Evil" because of a lot of content that was based on quests out of a whorehouse. That whorehouse still exists in the code, along with most of the quest assets, and there have been patches to unlock it. Supposedly the infamous "gay pirate dentist" bit was a deliberate act of rebellion on their part right before their company went under.

Allegedly something very similar happened with "Neverwinter Nights 2" where several entire romance questlines were removed from the game, including a lot of material featuring a certain Tiefling thief. Not to mention the oft-commented on bit about how the Neverwinter festhall transformed into a dancehall in the second game. :p

Bethesda is one of those companies that used to have something of a reputation for making fairly risque games and not being afraid to push the envelope. While the graphics weren't great, some might remember the "adult filters" present in "Arena" and "Daggerfall". If you had them turned off you'd run into NPCs (albiet unmoving stilled ones) in various compromised positions and the like as you moved through the game.

Bethesda on the other hand pretty much lost any guts they had, and started cow-towing to the ESRB and FCC not too long ago. There was this big thing about them absolutly freaking out over fan-made nude and sex patches because they got attention from "the authorities".

Given the kinds of things we've seen from the people making up Obsidian in the past, and the existance of things like "FISTO" it does make me wonder how much was cut from the game, and if they were again forced to go back to an earlier build in the 11th hour.

I think Obsidian's problem might be that it's simply difficult to be a developer of games for a Mature audience, in an industry currently infested with spinelessness. Something that is going to get worse if The Supreme Court winds up giving the goverment the abillity to violate our freedom of speech when it comes to video games.

Truthfully, I think we'll see better quality from Obsidian if they wind up ever being given total creative control over their own product, and no producers standing over their shoulder, getting all miffed when an "M" rated game actually winds up being well... Mature.
Sorry mate.. I'm really not looking to flame you... but this is utter ROT :/

MAYBE.. I would have accepted this as an excuse (and that's really all your post amounts too :/) one or two games back... but for them to royally screw up every game they've ever been involved with is just simply too much of a coincidence..... it's their work ethic that is wrong here.. nothing else... after so much, as you put it, 'bad luck' :)/) you really have to start calling a spade a fucking shovel...

..and as for 'Freedom of Speech'... that CERTAINLY doesn't cover retail outlets selling 'mature' material to those NOT of an age to buy it.. (which is what the legislation is all about...if parents are too ignortant and lazy to monitor what material their kids are exposed to then someone has to do it..full stop.. nothing even resembling a first amendment issue there)

When we come to the subject of control over their projects.. they get no less than most other companies of their size and they still have the worst rep and poorest workable quality around... so that doesn't cut it as an excuse either.

As for the 'too difficult to produce mature material' argument..KotOR2 certainly wasn't mature.. and neither was NWN2.. and they were a bloody mess...Anyway, why would it be so 'difficult' for them to make a mature game when The Witcher's CD Pojekt Red can handle it acceptable well, and Ob have orders of magnitude more experience in game making than them?.. is it possible they would be trying to make a 'mature' game for a market in which it is inappropriate (see the KotOR2 post).. That boils down to being their own fault too.

The fact is.. Ob just can't cut it in the modern gamemaking environment.. and because of that they are very deserving of becoming extinct added to their existing irrelevence.

Nicely worded post though.. just not very indicative of the realities of the situation... a bit too much wishful thinking and willingness to pass the buck.
 

Slangeveld

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Jun 1, 2010
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Problem with KOTOR 2 is that Lucas Arts decided the game world and storyline was too grim and too open. (Gay relations, civilians dying, no good or evil, just a lot of Gray) This apparently wasn't right with him/them so they had to re-make a lot of stuff in a few months on a low budget with a small team. Ouch.

Alpha Protocol was an awesome (but again low budged) game. Loved the choice elements. One of the only "RPGS' I played without walkthrough to get 'the best option'. I just ran with it and enjoyed it, apart from the weird AI and increasingly vague storyline.

But Fall Out New Vegas? What the f... Dx Not happy with this. I had 3 crashes in an hour, and this is on the steam version.

Probably will get fixed though. But as you said, did they even test it before releasing?
Slang-
 

Eclectic Dreck

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Personally, I have found the game no more buggy than Fallout 3, and only marginally less stable. I would certainly like the game to be better, but I'd have to be insane and stupid to expect such a thing. The base game was buggy and it was expanded upon by a company known to take a working product and make it buggier.
 

Fumbleumble

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Slangeveld said:
Problem with KOTOR 2 is that Lucas Arts decided the game world and storyline was too grim and too open. (Gay relations, civilians dying, no good or evil, just a lot of Gray) This apparently wasn't right with him/them so they had to re-make a lot of stuff in a few months on a low budget with a small team. Ouch.
(IF this is the case) how is this NOT a poor work ethic?.... making a wholly inappropriate game for a wholly well known franchise.. and why didn't they realise that this is exactly NOT what Lucas would would accept as a direction his creation?

IF the problems arose from a redesign because of this then it all STILL comes down to poor judgement and a complete misunderstanding of what was being asked of them.

Either way, piss poor and badly handled.... and in the end a buggy, broken, half finished mess.
 

Dectilon

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Sep 20, 2007
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I've played for 20 or so hours and it hasn't crashed for me yet. F3 crashed constantly for me. Also, the writing in this game isn't making me want to kill myself, something F3 frequently did. That said, Obsidian need better tech guys, and they need them soon. People are missing out on some great games just because they review badly.

Alpha Protocol for instance is like Mercenaries 2 or Bionic Commando. Poor reviews because of the technical side, but if there was a fun scale they'd all get high scores.
 

CptJackRabbit

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Xzi said:
aaaaaDisregard said:
I don't want my $50 back - the game is great so far, it's like Fallout 3 but with sane dialogue, interesting quests and lots of meaningful choices. And it crushed only once in about 10 hours of playtime.

There are rough edges here and there, but I gladly close my eyes on them - they are the minor problems which don't ruin the game, at least if you don't encounter some serious bug.

It's just too damn hard to achieve for New Vegas-like game the level of polish of Mass Effect 2 (which is probably the best RPG in terms of production values). ME2 is very short, super-linear and controllable.
Every movement in the cutscene, smallest detail, camera angle - it's hard and expensive, but possible for (relatively) small RPG with little to no consequences for the game world (I love Mass Effect 2, but most of decisions just don't cause noticeable changes - world always stays the same. And quests are scarce).

On the other hand we've got New Vegas with open world, lots of NPCs (most of which don't just stand in one place for ages, awaiting player's visit - they simulate simple sleep-work-eat cycle or even roam the surroundings), many quests with several solutions which affect environment, other NPCs and player's relations with different factions.

It's insanely hard to debug such a game, so naturally with constrains of time and money we don't get a perfect product immediately after release, but I'd rather buy slightly unpolished Fallout - New Vegas than stable, linear and uninspiring grinding of Gothic 4.
Mass Effect 2 was great because it had elements for both the shooter crowd and RPG fans to enjoy. And if you loved both, you probably loved Mass Effect 2. That being said, yea, it wasn't the most freedom-giving of all Bioware's games, nor could you completely customize your character. And in the sense of their overall "RPGness," it would be Fallout New Vegas > Mass Effect 2 > Fallout 3.

*****Fallout 3 just had too many issues that broke the game. And I'm not talking about bugs. Some perks were just ridiculously overpowered, everybody reached max level halfway through the game, and it was never challenging in the least.*******

New Vegas corrects all these things. It's balanced well and consistently challenging (especially on hardcore), you can play 20-30 hours and only be level 13 or so, and it FEELS more like an RPG. There's a lot more to be done in terms of character uniqueness.
You are aware that almost right after you start the game, you have to play for all of maybe 2 hours in New Vegas before you can have infinite caps and lvl 30 character with a 100 in 6 different stats, right? by my 3rd hour into the game, I was as maxed out as possible, with over 400 stimpacks and doctor bags each.

The same was true for FO3, and Oblivion and whatever... built in cheats basically from easily fixed glitches.