Obsidian Does it Again

Fumbleumble

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aaaaaDisregard said:
I don't want my $50 back - the game is great so far, it's like Fallout 3 but with sane dialogue, interesting quests and lots of meaningful choices. And it crushed only once in about 10 hours of playtime.

There are rough edges here and there, but I gladly close my eyes on them - they are the minor problems which don't ruin the game, at least if you don't encounter some serious bug.

It's just too damn hard to achieve for New Vegas-like game the level of polish of Mass Effect 2. ME2 is very short, super-linear and controllable.
Every movement in the cutscene, smallest detail, camera angle - it's hard and expensive, but possible for (relatively) small RPG with little to no consequences for the game world (I love Mass Effect 2, but most of decisions just don't cause noticeable changes - world always stays the same. And quests are scarce).

On the other hand we've got New Vegas with open world, lots of NPCs (most of which don't just stand in one place for ages, awaiting player's visit - they simulate simple sleep-work-eat cycle or even roam the surroundings), many quests with several solutions which affect environment, other NPCs and player's relations with different factions.

It's insanely hard to debug such a game, so naturally with constrains of time and money we don't get a perfect product immediately after release, but I'd rather buy slightly unpolished Fallout - New Vegas than stable, linear and uninspiring grinding of Gothic 4.
Pu-leeze..... Dude.. I think most rpg players are of the general conviction that ME2 wasn't an RPG... just a simple shooter, with a 'few' customisable options and a storyline that took a jump and a sharp left in so far as the direction the frist was going... yep polished.. but that's not too dificult for an on rails shooter..

But here we go again... someone else using the size of the game to somehow infer that Ob should be let off the hook... they choose to take on a project of this size.. they said they knew what they were doing.. the fact is they failled... totally their fault....

If I say I can build a mansion, then 'finish' it, but the windows let in water and the doors don't hang plumb.. is it ok if I say that the project was too big for me after all?
 

Casimir_Effect

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Fumbleumble said:
Casimir_Effect said:
I may be wrong in this but my memories of The Witcher upon release were that is had a pretty dodgy engine and some massive autosaving & quest bugs. The engine problem meant massive slowdown after a certain amount of playtime due to not clearing the RAM properly (similar to the slowdown NWN 2 experienced before patches, interestingly enough) or random bad lag. The autosave bug would crash the game while saving, which was annoying, and the quest bugs would involve the usual problem of people not appearing etc.

These were all fixed in the Enhanced Edition (although I still kill autosave just in case) and this is one of the main reasons why I support CD Projeckt. The fact the had the humility to re-do the game and fix it, then give this to all the people who had bought it already for free (along with some extra content too). The other reasons I like them are GoG, and that The Witcher was such a good game anyway (very Obsidian-ey with it's choice/consequence system).

I remember looking at Drakensang on Steam once. What sort of game is it? And would you also be able to list some games which are similar, or at least fit the parameter: If I liked ____, then I might like Drakensang?
 

Fumbleumble

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Xzi said:
Fumbleumble said:
Xzi said:
Seems like a lot of people are running into serious bugs with this one. I haven't hit anything beyond some minor graphics glitches.

But then again, I guess it helps to have an ungodly computer which processed everything the game had to offer within ten seconds of loading it.
Lol.. wrong thread mate.. the dick swinging contest is thata way ---->
Just tellin' it like it is. But from reading a bit of the article again, it seems as if Shamus is playing on a console. The PS3 and 360 versions of this game may be having a lot more issues with it, considering that nobody I have talked to (playing on a PC) has had much trouble at all.

Also, there have been two updates for the PC version so far. Not sure about the consoles.
Can we change your first sentence to 'Just tellin' it AS I SEE IT'... because if you did a bit more looking around you'd see that PC players are screaming every bit as much as console players...maybe even more so... dunno... let's just agree half and half.

.. But still... nothing to do with hardware... it's all piss poor effort on Ob's behalf.... you're just simply 'a lucky one' read the thread(s)... a few of you exist.
 

lumenadducere

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I just want to say that I really think you should play the Mask of the Betrayer expansion for NWN 2. I think it's the best thing they've put out yet, though I haven't played New Vegas - waiting for next month's paycheck. But I really, really liked MotB.
 

bob-2000

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Mine does crash when I walk into s a few towns, but its not that bad, really. I can deal with it because the rest of the game is really good.
 

Fumbleumble

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Casimir_Effect said:
Fumbleumble said:
Casimir_Effect said:
I may be wrong in this but my memories of The Witcher upon release were that is had a pretty dodgy engine and some massive autosaving & quest bugs. The engine problem meant massive slowdown after a certain amount of playtime due to not clearing the RAM properly (similar to the slowdown NWN 2 experienced before patches, interestingly enough) or random bad lag. The autosave bug would crash the game while saving, which was annoying, and the quest bugs would involve the usual problem of people not appearing etc.

These were all fixed in the Enhanced Edition (although I still kill autosave just in case) and this is one of the main reasons why I support CD Projeckt. The fact the had the humility to re-do the game and fix it, then give this to all the people who had bought it already for free (along with some extra content too). The other reasons I like them are GoG, and that The Witcher was such a good game anyway (very Obsidian-ey with it's choice/consequence system).

I remember looking at Drakensang on Steam once. What sort of game is it? And would you also be able to list some games which are similar, or at least fit the parameter: If I liked ____, then I might like Drakensang?
Yep, fair enough.. I'll take it as read you are correct... just something I was 'remembering' ;)

Drakensang is a fully fledged old school RPG with some really nice scripted quests, a nice engine (with the single most imaginative area I've seen in a game.. you can't miss it, it's gorgeous) and the system has all the depth of the Mirny Diamond Mine (google an image;)).. comparable with D&D 2nd ed (i.e, you gotta be able to count)... Divinty 2 Ego Draconis is also a good rpg has it's issues but it's certainly eminently playable and enjoyable... steer clear of Arcania.. it's piss poor... Risen is OK-ish.. but mainly shouted about by Gothic fans (good games, nice story and such.. but the combat is arse.. and G3 is 'almost' an unplayable mess :(), it certainly has it's own issues. Dragon Age also is 'ok' in flat kind of way (pure opinion...it's kinda shiney in a cinematic kinda of way...caters too much to angsty teens.. wayyyy too much blood and the sex is pointless (as I feel it is in every game).. this was the main complaint I had about The Witcher..yes it's supposed to be 'adult', but it always just comes off as being a bit of (lame) tittilation for spotty tweens :/) and Mass effect 1..which was quite good in a simplified sort of way (compared to Biowares older stuff)..the second was just too simple and naught but a shooter at the end of the day (again opinion).

Those are some of the most recent examples... but tbh I prefer older rpgs which seemed to be more about gameplay, story and system as opposed to eye candy.. I can recommend a few of my older favs if you so wish.... but to start with, if I were you I definately grab a copy of Drakensang and/or Div 2 (preferrably Drakensang... careful of the learning curve :D)
 

high_castle

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This would be why I waited to pick up New Vegas. I like Obsidian. Or at least, I want to like them. They might commit some colossal fuck ups at time, but they do just enough right to make me want to give them another chance. It's like an abusive relationship, really. They beat us over and over and over again with bad gameplay decisions and buggy execution, then hold out a glimmering shining moment of superb storytelling or characterization that makes me stick with them. I have this love-hate relationship with most of their games, but for me Alpha Protocol was the final straw. This was their own IP, it had been delayed constantly so they could fix things, and it still shipped broken. Not cool. So I waited on New Vegas, and it probably looks like the smart decision.
 

procyonlotor

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Sad that so many people are having so much trouble with the game. I myself have only experienced a couple of crashes besides the odd graphics glitch.

Also, I did encounter a broken side quest. Other than that my experience was pretty damn enjoyable.

Probably because I wasn't really pestered by bugs or constant crashing.

lumenadducere said:
I just want to say that I really think you should play the Mask of the Betrayer expansion for NWN 2. I think it's the best thing they've put out yet, though I haven't played New Vegas - waiting for next month's paycheck. But I really, really liked MotB.
NWN2 and MotB should really be played in sequence. I think that's what Obsidian had in mind from the start with that damn cliffhanger of an ending.

(And I haven't quite enjoyed any RPG as much as NWN2.)
 

TheDrunkNinja

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Five hours.

Five fucking hours.

That's how much I lost when I realized all my saves went back to Doc Mitchell's house in the very beginning. Went from forum to forum, found good advice from people who knew what they were talking about. Nothing. I wasn't getting my saves back. It was far too late.

Obsidian needs a good kick in the ass when it comes to quality control. With a sharpened ice-skate.
 

jaketheripper

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spectrenihlus said:
Eh it's a bethesda open world game. They are always super glitchy when they first come out.
The only glitches ive seen are the fucking deathclaws >.> oh wait, thats obsidian being retarded :p i hate deathclaws so....
 

Xero Scythe

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yo, guys, check this out. I found it on the Bethesda blog (Read Bold):

Bethesda Blog
Oct. 22, 2010

Wanted to let you guys know that Obsidian and Bethesda are continuing to work to address issues reported with Fallout: New Vegas. Overnight, a new game update went up on Xbox 360, resolving a number of quest and scripting issues - similar to the update we reported on Wednesday for PC players. To get the update, players will want to make sure their Xbox 360 is connected online.

A newer update is up on Steam as well - fixing issues players reported with game saves. In our forums, senior producer Jason Bergman explains the update:

"We are also pleased to say that we have just released a second fix for PC users to address the autosave and quicksave issues that some people were encountering. That particular issue was never seen prior to release and it was extremely difficult to reproduce reliably, even after the game had launched. In order to fix this problem we have had to disable Steam Cloud functionality. It has been turned off, and we won't turn it back on until we're absolutely sure it will not cause any more problems. Please restart your Steam client to make sure you get the update."

As we have more details on game updates/patches, we'll keep you posted.

Update: We've received word that the PS3 update for New Vegas is live in Europe.

http://bethblog.com/index.php/2010/10/22/an-update-on-updates/


Well, that's interesting.
 

Therumancer

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Hmmm. To be honest I think we're riding Obsidian a bit too hard here. I actually think a big part of their issue is that they have had a horrendous string of luck in finding the right publishers and business partners.

As I understand the issue, their problem is very similar to what happened with "Troika" in that they tend to want to make games for a mature audience, and when they actually develop at an "M" level as opposed to a "T" level being presented as an "M" level, the people backing them tend to freak out. This leads to a lot of abandoned code, and in many cases with them going back to previous builds of a game shortly before release when people outside of their team who have a say, tell them to basically cut out integral parts of the content.

While it's primarily a story about Troika, there was a big issue with how Atari forced them to basically gut "Temple Of Elemental Evil" because of a lot of content that was based on quests out of a whorehouse. That whorehouse still exists in the code, along with most of the quest assets, and there have been patches to unlock it. Supposedly the infamous "gay pirate dentist" bit was a deliberate act of rebellion on their part right before their company went under.

Allegedly something very similar happened with "Neverwinter Nights 2" where several entire romance questlines were removed from the game, including a lot of material featuring a certain Tiefling thief. Not to mention the oft-commented on bit about how the Neverwinter festhall transformed into a dancehall in the second game. :p

Bethesda is one of those companies that used to have something of a reputation for making fairly risque games and not being afraid to push the envelope. While the graphics weren't great, some might remember the "adult filters" present in "Arena" and "Daggerfall". If you had them turned off you'd run into NPCs (albiet unmoving stilled ones) in various compromised positions and the like as you moved through the game.

Bethesda on the other hand pretty much lost any guts they had, and started cow-towing to the ESRB and FCC not too long ago. There was this big thing about them absolutly freaking out over fan-made nude and sex patches because they got attention from "the authorities".

Given the kinds of things we've seen from the people making up Obsidian in the past, and the existance of things like "FISTO" it does make me wonder how much was cut from the game, and if they were again forced to go back to an earlier build in the 11th hour.

I think Obsidian's problem might be that it's simply difficult to be a developer of games for a Mature audience, in an industry currently infested with spinelessness. Something that is going to get worse if The Supreme Court winds up giving the goverment the abillity to violate our freedom of speech when it comes to video games.

Truthfully, I think we'll see better quality from Obsidian if they wind up ever being given total creative control over their own product, and no producers standing over their shoulder, getting all miffed when an "M" rated game actually winds up being well... Mature.
 

mjc0961

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Nov 30, 2009
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This is why I'm glad I don't have enough disposable income to buy this game at launch. By the time I get my hands on a copy, it should be patched, either by people at Obsidian or Bethesda, or by modders.

And yeah, PC only this time. After the fi...............................................asco I went through to play Fallo..............................ut 3 on my Playsta.............................................tion 3 with all the free...................................zing problems, I'm sure as hell not getting a console version of New Vegas.
 

RelexCryo

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Shamus Young said:
Experienced Points: Obsidian Does it Again

Did Obsidian even test Fallout: New Vegas before releasing it?

Read Full Article
Awesome article Shamus. Don't stop making these...you manage to phrase things better than any other game journalist I know, including Jerry/Tycho. And that's saying something.

"That's like winning the lottery and getting hit by a car. A car driven by Obsidian."

Hee hee hee...

I really love the design Bethesda uses. It emphasizes immersion.