Obsidian: Fallout New Vegas Has Bugs Because It's Big

mjc0961

YOU'RE a pie chart.
Nov 30, 2009
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I dunno, I'm not completely sure I buy this, Obsidian. If they were bugs that were out of the way, okay. But some of the biggest bugs I hear about are that thing at the very start where a character's head spins, the game eating save files, and the frame rate dropping considerably when you have any NPCs on screen. If tester didn't find those, I'd have to question if they were actually testing the right game.
Although you get points for patching some of this as quickly as possible. Obviously the right strategy for this is to not get the game at launch and instead wait a few months for the patches to come out.

Lord_Gremlin said:
InFamous ... playable
That's debatable. I suppose it is playable, if you're a sadist.
And besides, inFamous, Prototype, Saints Row 2, and other games maybe "big" but they are't nearly as big as Fallout New Vegas, so I'm not sure what your point was here anyway.
 

Shynobee

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Apr 16, 2009
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Yeah, this is definitely not a good excuse. Especially in the case of save files being overwritten by backups. That was soooooooooo annoying when it happened to me. Save bugs should be easily caught and fixed before release.
 

Beastialman

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Sep 9, 2009
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How about next time a massive game is released that the producers know will have bugs they put in a report feature that gives you a reward every time you report an actual bug.
 

soulasylum85

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Dec 26, 2008
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ok so ive been playing new vegas since release day and have not experienced any bugs at all. today i loaded my game and recieved the update and within 5 minutes of playing my game froze. what the fuck i thought an update was supposed to fix problems not cause them
 

Jimbo1212

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Aug 13, 2009
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Utter rubbish. Bethesda always release buggy games and the fact that it comes on one dvd means that it is actually quite small.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Sep 1, 2007
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ClassicJokester said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
HeySeansOnline said:
So who wants to have a most hated contest, Bobby Kotick, Jack Thompson, or Obsidian, who do you despise the most?
What? A guy who wants to charge you money for EVERYTHING in a game, separately; a man who tried to destroy video games; and a developer that made a game which is buggier than most. Hmmm.
The quotes are not with you.
 

Mausenheimmer

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Feb 11, 2008
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HeySeansOnline said:
You know, this could be accepted, if there was the occasional AI bug, or maybe the physics spinning a ghoul to the moon, but the sheer number of problems seen, no. Oblivion was able to work so when it was released a couple of years ago, and of course Fallout 3 worked, and they had their share of bugs, but they weren't game breaking.

So who wants to have a most hated contest, Bobby Kotick, Jack Thompson, or Obsidian, who do you despise the most?
Obsidian, hands down. Jack Thompson isn't really relevant any more and was never a serious threat. Bobby Kotick talks a big game, but really, he's just bad at PR and likes money. I see where he's coming from. But I don't understand Obsidian. Are they just bad game developers? Everything they release is buggy and unfinished, even when they get all the tools handed over to them by Bethesda.
 

ZippyDSMlee

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Sep 1, 2007
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HeySeansOnline said:
ZippyDSMlee said:
HeySeansOnline said:
You know, this could be accepted, if there was the occasional AI bug, or maybe the physics spinning a ghoul to the moon, but the sheer number of problems seen, no. Oblivion was able to work so when it was released a couple of years ago, and of course Fallout 3 worked, and they had their share of bugs, but they weren't game breaking.

So who wants to have a most hated contest, Bobby Kotick, Jack Thompson, or Obsidian, who do you despise the most?
Quest items and people falling through the map breaking the game is not game breaking? 0-o
Huh, actually never saw that on fallout, saw it on Oblivion, thought it was just my dics scratches. But still Oblivion was the first run at a game of that caliber.

FO3 on the PC out of the box no patches is a mess.

Oblivion haz caliber? Its almost as bad as a shovel WII waggle game... well... the writing dose keep you half awake...
 

Soviet Heavy

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Jan 22, 2010
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Funny how so many here will ***** their hearts out, yet they still buy the game and play it regardless.

I like Avellone, but he is more of a writer than a game designer. He makes great stories but his games are buggy.

And you know what? I don't care. If his games are buggy, I'll still play them for the story. KOTOR 2 is still my favorite game ever.

Suck it haters.
 

Therumancer

Citation Needed
Nov 28, 2007
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I wrote an impassioned defense of Obsidian yesterday, however I will say I am not satisfied with this answer.

It's like this, I can see how there are problems like this if they were forced to go with an earlier build right before release (which is what I suspected). However if this was the intended product and there is no such factor involved, then they did a horrible job. Simply put the bugs in this game are not minor glitches in isolated parts of the game. This is a situation where pretty much any player revving this up and head out and play normally and find tons of bugs and issues without doing anything even remotely odd. The slow downs, stuttering, and screen freezes in the PS-3 version I'm playing for example are bloody
obvious and affect everyone has a copy apparently. They can't tell me that hundreds of hours of testing this never uncovered problems like that.

Of course, I suspect a big part of the problem is that I think game developers increasingly lie about testing games. Games have always had bugs, errors, and problems, but there can be a case made (especially with console games) for there having been more solid products in previous generations.

Despite listing large testing teams, I don't see much in the way of open invites for beta testers on single player games, akin to what you saw on services like "PC Link". What's more when you DO see Beta Testing among the general gaming population, it's typically for things like MMORPGs and the game companies tend to treat it more like a free preview, or use it for stress testing. I've been in many Betas and I can hardly think of any cases where a design team has "snapped to it" and gotten on a bug immediatly after discovery. I've seen bugs, including some impressive ones, discovered months beforehand make it into the final release of a product, because the developers simply do not listen to their testers, or only listen to very specific ones that they hand pick.

I can see some of the concerns with this of course. Circulating a lot of beta software increases the risks of piracy and the theft of "trade secrets". Large numbers of beta testers also risk burning out portions of the audience before the game is released, so they wind up not buying the final product... among other concerns.

On a related note, the gaming industry has also gotten arrogant and stopped listening to their customers. The general attitude is that when it comes to feedback they need to seperate the signal from the noise, however they make this desician themselves, and typically wind up deciding whatever they want to hear is the "signal". In articles and such I've read developers talking about how they can't take thing seriously because of the overwhelming negative reactions they typically get.

While unrelated to "New Vegas", I think a good example of a company getting arrogant and ignoring it's fans is Bioware. With "Dragon Age II" they released information about the upcoming game, and being handed the character "Hawke". In the initial statements they said they were doing this to gauge reaction to see if they were on the right path. The response was overwhelmingly negative to be honest, this includes their own forums (where I checked). The most positive comments you saw in any great numbers seemed to be people taking an "I trust Bioware" position more than thinking it was a good idea. Oh sure, there WERE some people who liked the changes (reduction of character generation options, etc...) but they were actually the minority.

Right now you don't see as much negativity (but it's still there) largely because Bioware just pretty much decided "oh well, we're doing what we want to do anyway" and people resigned themselves to it, despite their preferances.

The point being that in gauging fan reaction, they pretty much ignore the results when they didn't like what they were. The same basic attitude can be said about companies in general and testing, when they even bother to do it properly. They really just don't give a frakk about it. Game companies seem to think that tester is the same as "freeloader" yet they create that themselves through their own attitude, and doing things like giving away "Beta Access" as a promotional gimmick, rather than looking for people who you know... actually want to test the game.

I might not be articulating this very well, and understand this isn't so much me picking on Obsidian as industry trends in general. Obsidian however probably took this to an extreme because without some kind of excuse akin to the ones I suspected, the only way a product like this could be released after testing is if they pretty much ignored the testers. I mean crud, all you have to do is walk forward enough and the PS-3 version is going to get slow down issues, that's not something a tester could miss.
 

ike42

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Feb 25, 2009
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I'm not sure why everyone says the game is so buggy, the only ones I've seen are an occasional scorpion stuck in the ground and a couple of load screen freezes. There have been very few games in recent history that I can remember not having errors like that. If they're working to patch right now, that's great. I'm enjoying the hell out of the game as it is.
 

fix-the-spade

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Feb 25, 2008
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Excuses, not a fan.
That people like Bioware and Blizzard can come up with games just as big (arguably bigger) and not suffer the same level of bug problems casts a big shadow over any claim of size preventing proper bug testing. Mass Effect and WoW have bugs certainly, but they're very small ones comparatively.

It's all well and good saying this, but New Vegas has the same bugs as Fallout 3, given two years of extra time to work with the engine this stinks of rush job or wilful drowning out of tester feedback.
 

AndyFromMonday

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Feb 5, 2009
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Bethesda did a pretty good job at ironing out the bugs. I personally didn't get past the annoying subway section but my friend said he didn't encounter any bugs. I'm sorry Obsidian, but whilst your games might be good you're just unable to get rid of all those goddamn bugs.
 

Korey Von Doom

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May 18, 2008
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AzrealMaximillion said:
I'm sure they could've fixed these bugs because they're the same bugs that were in Fallout 3, and it's the same damn size. And the same damn engine. That and it's been 2 years.
Same size map wise maybe, but I'm at 40 hours and I still have tons of quests to do.
 

BenzSmoke

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Nov 1, 2009
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Oblivion was bigger and ran on a similar engine. It came out before Fallout 3 and still had less bugs. How did they take a step backwards?
 

Nikolaz72

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Apr 23, 2009
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New Vegas is probably most entertaining fallout game since fallout 1-2. It perfected fallout 3 and i've hardly seen a single bug. Apart from a couple of ghouls walking out through the windows in a vault. But apart from that its been running smoothly. 20 + Hours played.
 

DaxStrife

Late Reviewer
Nov 29, 2007
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Okay, having finally completed the game this morning I can say I have yet to find anything "unfinished." There are a couple missions that feel short but are satisfactory enough, and there are a few texture glitches in some of the more out-of-the-way places on the map, but I haven't found any sign of broken content.

Bugs, on the other hand, I have seen plenty of. A few floating objects in houses, monsters stuck in the floor, and the occasional crash (though the game re-launches in a minute for me so that's not too bad). Plus, those are problems with Bethesda's Oblivion engine that existed back in Fallout 3, so they aren't anything new.
I did have problems with the save-game bug (made even worse by the odd crash), but I found a work-around and it works fine now.
The game definitely should have been launched better, but I have to say it's been a solid, fun experience from start to finish. It's Obsidian's best game to date (though I admit that's not the best compliment).
 

insanelich

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Sep 3, 2008
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It's Obsidian and they're developing on GameBryo. This is an instant recipe for a buggy disaster.

I just wonder if the ending is a half-finished mess, like in KOTOR2.