On Gaymers and Cons

[Darken12]

well right on, I'll go back to eating caviar, watching Doctor Who on my solid gold Xbox fully content with my own life then. Maybe I'll take my rocket ship encrusted in diamonds out for a spin later flying over everyones heads pitying them they didn't have the advantages I did and think whimsically how all of life was served to me on a damn silver platter. Do you know I have an asian girlfriend, and because I'm on Easy mode she never poos? She eats all right, she's medically okay, but because she's dating me her bum is magic! White straight male power! EVERYTHING IS FANTASTIC AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW IT CAN NOT BE THIS EASY FOR ANYBODY ELSE! ITS SO FUCKING SIMPLE TO BE HAPPY EVERYONE! JUST BECOME WHITE, MALE AND LIKE PUSSY! HORRAH! MAYBE I'LL CURE CANCER LATER.

...

I'm just a person. You're just a person. For fucks sake. Telling others "They have it easy" seggrates them, doesn't help put people in the same boat. It "Others" them. Not helping.

I understand your frustration, but you don't get it. Being straight white and male doesn't mean your life is automatically good, it means you have more tools at your disposal to make life easier for yourself. Let me put it this way: if you want to marry your girlfriend, you can. Pretty much anywhere. If you two can't have children and want to adopt, you can. It might be somewhat difficult depending on your personal lives, but it's possible. If you want to walk with her holding hands down the street, nobody's going to stare, whisper, give you disgusted looks, laugh at you or beat you up (or at least, none of this will happen because of your genders. It might happen because of something else, as per the kyriarchy, but it won't happen just because you're a male and she's a female). If you want to walk around in the middle of the night alone, the worst you can fear is being mugged. You don't have to be afraid of rape. And on that note, if you're in a location full of predominantly male strangers who could easily overpower you, again you need not fear rape, because you're male. And if you are involved in an instance of violence, the police and court system won't be biased against you because of your race. As a straight white male, you're more likely to end up making more money, having laws passed that benefit you, your opinion being heard, having the entertainment industry cater to you, and end up making political decisions that impact everyone else.

All these things area advantages that make your life easier. In your particular case, the kyriarchy might oppress you in different ways (as your example demonstrates, the kyriarchy might oppress you because of your socioeconomical class). However, it doesn't mean that those advantages don't exist. Ignoring those advantages keeps perpetuating them. The first step in solving those inequalities is being aware of them, and dismissing a minority when they try to raise awareness about privilege because "most of us have it bad one way or another" keeps those issues from being dealt with.

 

[Darken12]

You know, after all this time I think I finally figured out why being called priviliged annoys me so much. By saying that straight white men are privileged, people seem to imply that I automatically have it easy. I struggle with anger issues, depression, an inferiority complex, I have difficulty socializing, I'm a major shut in, and I have a rather hellish home life because of a sister that suffers from bi-polar disorder that has gone out of her way to make years of my life very unpleasant. I guess I just don't like people implying that my life is hunky dory when I have to go through a lot of crap.

Allow me to repeat myself: being privileged doesn't mean you have it automatically easy. It means that society gives you an invisible bag of tools, keys and maps that lets you navigate the journey of life with an advantage. If you don't use them, use them improperly, or life just throws a greater amount of crap in your face than most, you end up having a crappier life than someone who belongs in a minority. It happens. But it doesn't mean you don't have privilege, because you do. You can't get rid of that invisible knapsack any more than a person of colour can get rid of their race or a gay person can get rid of their sexuality.

Something to keep in mind: it's not your fault. A lot of straight white males interpret privilege as an accusation, and it makes them defensive. While understandable, it's not the intent. Nobody believes that being privileged is a choice (again, it's something society bestows on you for having the right set of labels). When minorities get angry at you, they don't get angry because you're privileged, they get angry because you repeatedly deny your privilege or insist that you have it 'just as bad or worse' as them. Nobody's running a 'who's got the crappiest life' competition, we're just trying to bring awareness to issues that affect us all.

 

[Mykal Stype]

It's a gross generalization to just assume someone else has had it easy for those reasons.

Privilege has nothing to do with the overall outcome of your life. Privilege means that society has given you an invisible bag of tools, keys and maps for your journey through life. The more instances of privilege you have, the bigger your bag is (with the biggest bag going to the physically attractive, intelligent, college-educated, rich straight cis white male born into a respected family). Just because your life ended up being crappy doesn't mean you don't have these extra advantages that other people don't have. It's entirely possible that a transgendered lesbian of colour may have had a better life than you, but it's undeniable that you had far more invisible tools at your disposal than her along the way.

K. Fine. Nevermind, I've been stuck on "Easy Mode" and not aware of it. <.<

Peoples strengths and weakness are their own individual thing.

You are completely right when you say that Straight White Male is life's Easy Mode [http://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-the-lowest-difficulty-setting-there-is/].

Strengths and weaknesses have nothing to do with privilege. Privilege isn't something you have any control over, it's something society bestows upon you as a reward for being born with the right set of labels.

You know, after all this time I think I finally figured out why being called priviliged annoys me so much. By saying that straight white men are privileged, people seem to imply that I automatically have it easy. I struggle with anger issues, depression, an inferiority complex, I have difficulty socializing, I'm a major shut in, and I have a rather hellish home life because of a sister that suffers from bi-polar disorder that has gone out of her way to make years of my life very unpleasant. I guess I just don't like people implying that my life is hunky dory when I have to go through a lot of crap.

You aren't as privileged then. It's "straight white male" as an example not because those three things are the only parts of privilege, but because listing all of the types of privilege would take an entire book, which I'm sure some psychologist has already wrote.
Privilege is just what you have been born with. You say that you have depression, which means that you didn't have the privilege of perfect mental health. You say that your home life is difficult, and that just means you didn't get the privilege of a perfect home life.
Being a straight white male doesn't mean you have auto easy mode, as like I said, there is far more to a person than just that. So the easiest way to say it is like this: let's say you have all of the problems you stated, but instead of being white, you're black. Just by changing that one thing means that you have an outward characteristic that makes you less likely to be hired at a job, more likely to get arrested for minor offenses, more likely to be treated suspiciously, etc. Being born white hasn't given you "easy mode," but it's given you an "easier mode" than a black version of you. That means that you have the privilege of being white, because just being white has given you more opportunities than you can count when compared to the opportunities that you would have had black.

CAPTCHA: "Well Done". And I just got the privilege of the Escapist forums already congratulating me on this post. Well done indeed, computer.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

well right on, I'll go back to eating caviar, watching Doctor Who on my solid gold Xbox fully content with my own life then. Maybe I'll take my rocket ship encrusted in diamonds out for a spin later flying over everyones heads pitying them they didn't have the advantages I did and think whimsically how all of life was served to me on a damn silver platter. Do you know I have an asian girlfriend, and because I'm on Easy mode she never poos? She eats all right, she's medically okay, but because she's dating me her bum is magic! White straight male power! EVERYTHING IS FANTASTIC AND I HAVE NO IDEA HOW IT CAN NOT BE THIS EASY FOR ANYBODY ELSE! ITS SO FUCKING SIMPLE TO BE HAPPY EVERYONE! JUST BECOME WHITE, MALE AND LIKE PUSSY! HORRAH! MAYBE I'LL CURE CANCER LATER.

...

I'm just a person. You're just a person. For fucks sake. Telling others "They have it easy" seggrates them, doesn't help put people in the same boat. It "Others" them. Not helping.

I understand your frustration, but you don't get it. Being straight white and male doesn't mean your life is automatically good, it means you have more tools at your disposal to make life easier for yourself. Let me put it this way: if you want to marry your girlfriend, you can. Pretty much anywhere. If you two can't have children and want to adopt, you can. It might be somewhat difficult depending on your personal lives, but it's possible. If you want to walk with her holding hands down the street, nobody's going to stare, whisper, give you disgusted looks, laugh at you or beat you up (or at least, none of this will happen because of your genders. It might happen because of something else, as per the kyriarchy, but it won't happen just because you're a male and she's a female). If you want to walk around in the middle of the night alone, the worst you can fear is being mugged. You don't have to be afraid of rape. And on that note, if you're in a location full of predominantly male strangers who could easily overpower you, again you need not fear rape, because you're male. And if you are involved in an instance of violence, the police and court system won't be biased against you because of your race. As a straight white male, you're more likely to end up making more money, having laws passed that benefit you, your opinion being heard, having the entertainment industry cater to you, and end up making political decisions that impact everyone else.

All these things area advantages that make your life easier. In your particular case, the kyriarchy might oppress you in different ways (as your example demonstrates, the kyriarchy might oppress you because of your socioeconomical class). However, it doesn't mean that those advantages don't exist. Ignoring those advantages keeps perpetuating them. The first step in solving those inequalities is being aware of them, and dismissing a minority when they try to raise awareness about privilege because "most of us have it bad one way or another" keeps those issues from being dealt with.

Look, I've dwelled on this enough. I'm not buying it, and I'm not going into it because I don't want to lay my own personal struggles out on the table. I've being lucky in places, dealt with shit in others. Everyone has. Everyone gets dealt they're own deck of cards. There is a lot of societal bullshit thats wrong in this world, and I stand against a lot of it... But I do so as an individual and not alongside groups of people that stand to judge that I've had shortcuts because again, that's a hypocritical generalization to just make about a person especially when one is suppose to stand for civil rights issues.

 

[anthony87]

*self snipped for being drunk as hell at time of posting*

 

[Darken12]

Look, I've dwelled on this enough. I'm not buying it, and I'm not going into it because I don't want to lay my own personal struggles out on the table. I've being lucky in places, dealt with shit in others. Everyone has. Everyone gets dealt they're own deck of cards. There is a lot of societal bullshit thats wrong in this world, and I stand against a lot of it... But I do so as an individual and not alongside groups of people that stand to judge that I've had shortcuts because again, that's a hypocritical generalization to just make about a person especially when one is suppose to stand for civil rights issues.

Let me put it this way: we're not inventing reasons to attack you. We're pointing out facts. Privilege is not some vague abstract concept whose existence can be disputed. It's a fact that can either be ignored or acknowledged.

The stuff you're saying here is exactly why I said before that you sound like you support the kyriarchy, it's because you keep insisting that 'everyone gets lucky in places and deals with shit in others'. It seems to imply that we should all shut up and stop talking about privilege because we all get crap thrown in our faces. Ignoring privilege doesn't solve anything. It doesn't DO anything because you're ignoring it.

I know it's hard to accept, but we're not going to stop pointing out all the different kinds of privileges because we all had it bad at some point in our lives. In fact, people who've had it bad in their lives should be even more aware of privilege, because they've been at the receiving end of it. If someone is disabled, they know what it's like when everyone else has advantages that they lack just because they're able-bodied and/or able-minded. If someone is poor, they know what it's like to have door closed on them, be mistreated or judged because of their income. Just because we get screwed by the kyriarchy on one zone doesn't mean we don't have advantages in other areas. Refusing to acknowledge those advantages, regardless of what impact they have on the whole of our lives, is closing our eyes to cold hard facts.

 

[Guestyman]

Snip

No-one is judging you, dude, and no-one is saying that you've had it hunky and dory because of your straight white male-ness. That is the entire point of the term Kiriarchy, that everyone oppresses everyone else. That everyone has privilege to unpack. What people are objecting to is when you use the existence of the Kyriarchy to criticise and delegitimise attempts to counteract certain parts of it. The "Everyone has it bad, that means your concerns aren't worth trying to address unless they address everyone's problems at once."

You do get the difference between you, an individual having a difficult life and the systematic oppression and discrimination against an entire class of people, yes?

 

[anthony87]

The question being asked is still - why is this required?

And here is the answer: it isn't required. I have seen no mandate requiring it. This fulfills no needs.

Asking why it's required or needed misses the point of wants. IE: This is something some people want to do.

If it isn't required, if it isn't fulfilling some purpose then WHY is it happening at all?

There -must- be a reason and I'm trying to get to the bottom of it.

I hate to break it to you but there doesn't have to be any underlying reason or purpose for it. Some people just want this and apparently they find whatever exists now insufficient at fulfilling that want.

Everything has a cause.

I want to know what prompted this event. How have homosexuals been treated at previous non-homosexual focused gaming conventions?

I am not asking to prevent Gaymer X, I am asking so I know what issues there are at the universal gaming conventions.

According to another poster it's because of the casual use of the words "Gay" and "******" and so on at conventions and on Xbox live. I mean if that's really the case then I wanna know where the convention is for all the Irish gamers that are called "Micks" and accused of being alcoholics all the time.

[sub][sub]Gonna regret the fuck out of this post in the morning...[/sub][/sub]

 

[feeback06]

What exactly would you have at a gay gamer convention that would be different to any other gamer convention or is it just got a gaudy stereotypical colour palate and gives you the comfortable feeling that everyone around you can relate because not only are they gamers but they are also gay?

This is pretty much what I was thinking, also I can't think of a single time I've gone to any con and my sexuality has been an issue.

 

[MasochisticAvenger]

So what does this mean for straight people? Are they not allowed in this convention, or is it a case of "you're welcome as well, but the rules against homophobia are much more greatly enforced" or is the convention only for gay people? If that's the case, how exactly would you go proving that? Also, if straight people weren't allowed into these kinds of conventions, would that mean they are allowed to create conventions that gays aren't allowed to participate?

The difference between this and say "women having their own bathroom" is that women don't expect to be able to freely go in and out of the men's bathroom. There is a place only men can go into, and a place only women can go into. However, I guarantee you if anyone ever tried to make a "straight-only" convention, they would be called a horrible person in no time flat.

Still, I wouldn't mind going to a convention for gay gamers. I think it would be kind of interesting to see what it's like (not that I'm expecting anything massively different, but even just the more understanding environment would be great).

 

[mechashiva77]

Why is it that every time wants to create something aimed at a minority everyone has to flip their shit over how "segregating" it is, and when we try to include minorities in media everyone is like "But I don't want it being about the minority's issues!"

The reason we have Black Entertainment Television (and channels of the like) is because people flip their shit when a movie talks about a character's background and discrimination.

The reason the Gaymercon exists, is because people tend to flip out over discussing homosexuality and gaming.

Everything else is already aimed at straight white males. That's why women in skimpy clothing are common, and that's why nearly every main character is a straight white male. Let the minorities have a thing that's aimed at them. It won't affect you in anyway whatsoever.

 

[Darken12]

So what does this mean for straight people? Are they not allowed in this convention, or is it a case of "you're welcome as well, but the rules against homophobia are much more greatly enforced" or is the convention only for gay people? If that's the case, how exactly would you go proving that? Also, if straight people weren't allowed into these kinds of conventions, would that mean they are allowed to create conventions that gays aren't allowed to participate?

The difference between this and say "women having their own bathroom" is that women don't expect to be able to freely go in and out of the men's bathroom. There is a place only men can go into, and a place only women can go into. However, I guarantee you if anyone ever tried to make a "straight-only" convention, they would be called a horrible person in no time flat.

Still, I wouldn't mind going to a convention for gay gamers. I think it would be kind of interesting to see what it's like (not that I'm expecting anything massively different, but even just the more understanding environment would be great).

It's been explained in the thread already. The con is probably not going to be anything out of the ordinary, straight people are allowed in, the only difference from a regular con is probably going to be a greater emphasis on LGBT issues/depictions in games and so on. Though really, that's not the point. The point isn't that LGBT people want to go do something that they can't do on regular cons. They want a safe, comfortable space where they can talk about games and do anything else you do on a regular con, only without having to deal with (and I quote myself) "stares, ostracism, rude language, snide remarks, straight privilege, ignorant remarks and all other kinds of perfectly legal but still incredibly uncomfortable bad attitudes." That's it, it's nothing mystifying.

 

[Piecewise]

I think what this is really saying to the world is:

1.Gays are so different that they want to have their own con. You should view them as different from you.

2.If you shout insults at Gays then they'll run away and segregate themselves for you. SO if you are a bigot, just keep doing what you're doing, because it's working.



Seriously, shouldn't gay gamers be flocking to normal conventions en masse to show that they're ordinary people and that they should be able to go to a con and not be heckled? Are they heckled? I've never seen it if they are, at least never specifically. If they're just complaining about the whole "Thats so gay" turn of phrase then well...I hope they can segregate themselves from society as a whole because that's pretty common regardless of intent.

But really, blacks and women didn't get their rights and place in society by immediately running away and segregating themselves. They got it by getting up in everyone's faces and yelling "We're here, we're people, and we deserve your respect."

Honestly if you're a gamer you're probably a nerdy or weird person and should probably already be used to being insulted or teased. Grow a thicker skin and just blow off the assholes as the assholes they are.

 

[Klagermeister]

Is Critical Miss really ever *off* of the soapbox?

I have no really strong opinions one way or another. If they want to have their own convention, that's fine with me.

 

[Killclaw Kilrathi]

It took me at least three looks to notice that the guy in the last panel isn't wearing any pants.

Honestly, I've asked the "why do they want their own con" question myself. Mostly because I don't know what one would do at a gay con that one wouldn't do at a regular con.

Then again, I've never actually been to a con. If the point is to fit in... then fair enough I guess.

That's one thing that bothers me about the gay movement as a whole... why does it have to be such a big deal what you sexual orientation is? I don't change my entire lifestyle simply because I happen to like women. I mean parts of it change sure. But my ENTIRE LIFESTYLE? Nope.

It also seems unnecessarily exclusive, especially when homosexuals should probably be inclusive, showing others that "we're just like you! we just like the same sex " I mean, they could SAY it's inclusive, but the name "Gaymer Con" kinda sounds exclusive. It would be like having a "NegroCon" or something. No white people would go to that.

Still, I suppose as an act of raising awareness and stuff it's also good. Either way, it seems mostly pointless to me.

You realize that you can go to a convention without strictly being part of the target audience, right? You don't have to be a furry to go to a furry convention, for example. If your complaint is that straight people generally wouldn't go to a gay themed con, then... so? The entire reason for a con is to focus on a group of people with a similar interest, they're not obligated to cater to yours. Go if you're interested, don't go if you're not.

As for gay people making a big deal out of their orientation, they don't. It's STRAIGHT people who make a big deal out of homosexuality, and it's particularly bad among gamers. Let's not forget that one of the main insults over voice chat is to call someone a "fag", and I don't care if they actually mean homosexuals by that. All that means is homophobia is so ingrained into gamer culture that people do it without realizing it, practically as a cultural thing.

Gay pride is nothing more than the gay community pushing back against this sort of thing, they have to in order to change the status quo. When a bully pushes you around in school, you need to start pushing back or it will just get worse. If there was no discrimination, there would be no gay movement.

 

[Piecewise]

They want a safe, comfortable space where they can talk about games and do anything else you do on a regular con, only without having to deal with (and I quote myself) "stares, ostracism, rude language, snide remarks, straight privilege, ignorant remarks and all other kinds of perfectly legal but still incredibly uncomfortable bad attitudes." That's it, it's nothing mystifying.

1.What cons are you going to where this happens? Honestly, there are guys walking around dressed up as sailor fucking moon and you're the one they're laughing at?

2.How do they know you're gay? I'm asking this because it's not like you have a great big "G" pinned to your shirt. How does it come up? I would think It would only come up in conversation and I don't see why you would be starting that conversation with anyone you don't know anymore then I would be talking about sex with anyone I don't know.

3.Why not just ignore them? Seriously, you're attempting to deal with a systemic problem of ignorance and bigotry by running away from it? Isn't that exactly what they want? I got bullied in school, I'm an atheist in the middle of a god fearing red state and I realize that being in a place full of people who think you should burn in hell for eternity is annoying but you do one of two things: You either ignore them because they're idiots or you vent some bile in their face and let them know that you're not going to go away just because they don't like you.

 

[Mykal Stype]

Can someone define "Kyriarchy" clearly? I went on wikipedia to look it up, but I didn't really understand. It was like reading jetpack instructions written in Japanese. I've gotten it somewhat from the context of other people's posts, but not completely.

Also, to tack back on to topic, gay conventions like these aren't about sexuality, they're about feeling "normal" for a change. Everywhere you go nearly everyone is straight, and even when it's not being talked about, if you're gay, there's always that lingering feeling that you aren't entirely a part of the group, unless the groups you run with are really odd already. At gay oriented conventions, you get to be normal for a change.
If you're a straight male and have any gay friends, go to a gay bar (bar, not club. Big difference). You have to go with a friend so that you don't get hit on, but you can't go with a straight friend as you would have someone on your side. It doesn't matter how liberal you are, you're going to feel weird, even though no one there will actually talk much or at all about their sexuality. And if you want to feel even weirder and more obvious, if you're white you can go to an Asian market. Don't bring an Asian friend for that one. Same feeling, just more pronounced.

 

[jmarquiso]

It took me at least three looks to notice that the guy in the last panel isn't wearing any pants.

Honestly, I've asked the "why do they want their own con" question myself. Mostly because I don't know what one would do at a gay con that one wouldn't do at a regular con.

Then again, I've never actually been to a con. If the point is to fit in... then fair enough I guess.

This. Another thing I thought about was that are there even enough "gaymers" that 1) particularly want this sort of thing and 2) live densely enough to make this a big event? I don't imagine one would be willing to drive 500 miles just to get to a gaming convention specifically aimed at their sexuality. Unless gaming conventions are REALLY homphobic events, I really don't see much point in this.

Upon hearing this I did myself wonder why there would be an event specifically for homosexuals, when I don't see games having much to do with sexual identity for the most part.

Exactly. How does sexuality affect behavior at a gaming convention?

To answer 1 and 2, the event was Kickstarted and got significant enough interest to be funded. Which is one reason why it was Kickstarted. Finally, to answer your final question - gaming communities tend to be homophobic. Period. You can see evidence online. This is a convention for a sexual minority to celebrate their hobby unharassed because - well - gaming communities tend to be homophobic.

And it's not like straight people can't go either.

 

[Guestyman]

Can someone define "Kyriarchy" clearly? I went on wikipedia to look it up, but I didn't really understand. It was like reading jetpack instructions written in Japanese. I've gotten it somewhat from the context of other people's posts, but not completely.

Within feminist theory Kyriarchy as a term was created as an alternative to Patriarchy as a way of describing the systems that bestow and remove privilege from people based on their traits. While Patriarchy theory blames men for these systems, Kyriarchy theory recognises that the systems are multitudinous and effect everyone based not only on sex but also gender, race, socio-economic status, religion or lack thereof, sexuality, political affiliation, etc.

Basically, People looked at the old theory which said "We live in an unjust society because men oppress women (and sometimes other men)" and saw it to be an incorrect depiction of the state of affairs so they replaced it with a more nuanced "We live in an unjust society because everyone oppresses everyone else in different and subtle ways."

 

[Mykal Stype]

Can someone define "Kyriarchy" clearly? I went on wikipedia to look it up, but I didn't really understand. It was like reading jetpack instructions written in Japanese. I've gotten it somewhat from the context of other people's posts, but not completely.

Within feminist theory Kyriarchy as a term was created as an alternative to Patriarchy as a way of describing the systems that bestow and remove privilege from people based on their traits. While Patriarchy theory blames men for these systems, Kyriarchy theory recognises that the systems are multitudinous and effect everyone based not only on sex but also gender, race, socio-economic status, religion or lack thereof, sexuality, political affiliation, etc.

Basically, People looked at the old theory which said "We live in an unjust society because men oppress women (and sometimes other men)" and saw it to be an incorrect depiction of the state of affairs so they replaced it with a more nuanced "We live in an unjust society because everyone oppresses everyone else in different and subtle ways."

Thanks. That is a very depressing theory.