On Gaymers and Cons

[Susan Arendt]

Ok, let me give you an analogy. - snip - ... but they wouldn't have to worry about getting uncomfortable looks when they mention their same-sex partner, or getting stared at if they held hands as they perused artist's alley.

Your analogy is so specific and at the very same time can be applied to almost 1000 different parts of an individual's identity. There's almost always a potential "something" to worry about because the very nature of a group of 2 or more people is that each person is decidedly different and there's always one or several reasons we're adapting our behaviour.

If you take that thinking to its logical extreme you get none-sense like "Gay-black-short-women-middle aged-mer con". Add as many adjectives as you need in order to feel comfortable with the people around you.

Isn't the point of a convention that people who probably have very different tastes in other things (be it hobbies or choice of sexual partner), come together to geek out on whatever the chosen subject at hand is, be it comics/games/films?

I think your arguments are very poor reasons to segregate. General acceptance of LGBT people has undoubtedly increased 1000 fold in the past 100 years... we've gone from a majority that would hang a homosexual as a deviant to a minority who will maybe mutter and stare a little - and you're saying that now is the time to segregate because of a few stares?

In another few decades, with any luck, all people will have ceased to bat an eye-lid at a triviality such as sexual orientation - a good many of us already don't. I'd argue it's the small harmless things (like two gay people holding hands in public) that go the furthest toward changing general opinion for the better as they quietly express a new norm.

It's hardly "segregation" - it's an option. Gay people can attend any con they like, straight people can attend GaymerCon if they like. We should deny people the option to go somewhere that they can feel comfortable because...why, exactly?

 

[medv4380]

Other than being just another kickstarter scam to get some fast cash to do something. What exactly is Gaymer Con 2013 planning on doing?

Here are real world examples of what comes to mind when I hear Gaymer Con. Yaoi Con, Yuri Con, Furi Con, Loli Con. Those are all real cons, and they are all Sexual in nature. This is, in part, why you don't denote sexual things in a Title unless it's about Sex. Then you have things like GayCon. Which is about dealing with sexual health. Again, even the serious Gay cons are mostly talking about Sex. Is this con talking about it seriously or as a child(under 30) would at Yuri Con.

So is this Gaymer con a con about taking all the Gay and Bisexual relationship paths in Dragon Age? Is it to discuss the rampant homophobia on XBox Live? Or is this just a scan to get some quick bucks.

Now it also seems a bit offensive too. If their were another Con call Strait White Male Gamer Con. Then you'd assume it was some weirdo Bro convention. If you take the entire kickstarter campaign and swap out the gay references with Strait White Male Gamer and Strait White Male Gamer with "The Gays" then you'd probably realize that the entire thing is just Monopolizing on generic sexist racist fears of "Us" vs "Them". Yea, Group Think!

 

[Damien Granz]

On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article

I completely agree. When people hold a convention for gamers in general, nobody would tolerate it if somebody was like "Why don't they just go to the arts and crafts fair behind the church and talk about their hobby there instead? Or are they just trying to discriminate against old ladies and hand crafted scarfs?".

Sometimes your hobbies needs or at least wants its own convention. This isn't no real different. People who are gay and are gamers have different needs and desires and thus a different convention than old ladies knitting scarves. What's controversial about them hosting it?

Hilarity of my jokes aside, why do you care if they have a gaymer con? Need or not, they want it and since these thing exist entirely to satisfy want there is one.

Well, that's just the point: Attempting to understand the desire for such an event. After all, sexuality and gaming are not things that appear excessively connected at first glance. It's especially important to ask the question in case the answer is 'because gaymers don't feel comfortable at regular conventions.' If it's just something that happens because hey, why not, then we can just move on, but quite a few of us nerd types would like to be able to take pride in our culture being one of the most welcoming to everybody, and if it isn't, we'd like to know that.

Ok, let me give you an analogy. You are in a room with your friends and the group is entirely male. You tend to wind up speaking and acting a certain way - maybe you swear a little more, maybe you care less about farting, maybe you bring up hot girls a little more than you would if there were a girl present. It's a subtle shift in behavior that isn't a big deal in and of itself, but it makes you more comfortable because you don't feel like you have to pay extra attention to what you say and how you say it. (Same thing is true in reverse, by the way - women change how they talk and behave when a man is in the group.)

If that analogy doesn't work for you, you can use any people who make you fundamentally monitor how you behave - your parents, teachers, coworkers, whatever.

Point is, it's not so much about existing cons being rampantly homophobic (though sure, sometimes that happens), but rather creating an environment where you don't have to worry about that at all. You walk through the door more able to be comfortably you, expressing all aspects of your personality. Sexuality informs many aspects of our life, big and small - everything from the clothes we wear to the entertainment we like to the kind of character we want to talk about to the cosplay we admire. No, it's not like attendees would necessarily be WOOO I'M GAYYYYYY the entire time they're at the show, but they wouldn't have to worry about getting uncomfortable looks when they mention their same-sex partner, or getting stared at if they held hands as they perused artist's alley.

Plenty of gaymers have wonderful experiences at cons, but I love the idea of GaymerCon. A place where people can feel safe as welcome as they celebrate their geekitude? Fantastic!

Maybe someday we can live in a world where gender and sexuality are universally such non-issues that people can maybe act how they are and feel comfortable with themselves without worrying if there's too many women folk or straight people or whatever around. But that's not today. And until then, sometimes people do want to have a convention where they feel that, even if everyone there isn't like them, they're with them, on their side, without hesitation, and without having to worry about "toning down" an important aspect of their lives in a way that straight people never have to worry about, to keep from offending the majority.

 

[Abomination]

From what I understand from this comic the Gaymer convention is going to take place in a secluded mountain temple and the activities will include homosexual pooping and peeing... maybe some application of makeup.

While I will not ever attempt to stop a Gaymer convention I don't see why one is needed. In almost every circle of gaming I interact on I have at least 3 homosexual friends and one trans(vestite/sexual)... I seem to attract them or something.

Certainly there are those who are disrespectful to homosexuals (homophobia is a terrible term, it implies an irrational FEAR, not petty malice and hatred) but I believe you will find them everywhere. Are there gay sporting events, gay debate clubs, gay chess clubs, gay boxing clubs? It just seems so redundant and self-segregating.

Would I be allowed to attend this Gaymer convention despite my sexual orientation? Do I require a homosexual escort while on premises? Do I have to be blindfolded on the trip there and back?

 

[88chaz88]

I've had the opinion of "I don't see why they'd want their own con", I'd much rather be considered as ignorant for holding that opinion than homophobic. I honestly didn't know that current gaming cons were particularly exclusionary.

However I'd never deny "the gays" their own con, just like I wouldn't deny men urinals, I just don't think it's homophobic or misandristic to question their value.

And yes I'm aware of the irony of comparing gaymercon to urinals in an attempt to not sound homophobic. I'll see myself out.

 

[OfficialJab]

Umm... I actually don't understand why the LGBT -community would need their own gaming convention. There isn't anything dickish about it though, and I don't see why that particular question even would be dickish.

I don't think it's dickish, just ignorant. 'Ignorant' here not being rude, just what it means. There's no way that you can personally understand their situation, hence you can't understand some of the things they say or do.

I'd be tempted to turn up to a gamer con, then a gaymer con to truly see if there's a big difference though I couldn't help but feel discriminated against by the latter just because I have a different sexual preference when the convention should be focusing more on games.

I find that there's too many homosexual movements that are acting like the world owes them for being gay and people should stop and respect them for it. Why, your gay, so what? the big deal is? Wow so people insult you because of it, lots of people insult others for being different, that's their problem and highlights their flaws, not yours.

As far as I'm aware, you wouldn't be discriminated against at all. But wait, you'd feel uncomfortable there? Knowing that you're surrounded by people who have a different sexual preference than you? If only there was some kind of larger example of this that we could think of...

As far as the last paragraph, your opinion, as everyone's, is noted, but as with Onia, it's from ignorance. You don't know what it's like, and that's why you don't understand why they're having these movements. The only objective here that I'm aware of is to create a con where they're likely to feel more comfortable.

But there's a passive homophobia there -- using a term like calling someone a fa* (if you didn't notice, I hate that word above all others), you imply that there's something wrong with being gay, that makes that person less than human. I won't get into all the rhetorical happenings here and logical steps to get there, but the implication is there.

This called to mind an interview with Seth MacFarlane that I read where they asked him about that.

"How do you feel about the young straight community's cavalier use of the word 'gay' to describe stupidity or weakness?"

"I've used that term, but it's like a homonym-no pun intended. Like the word 'fag' is a derogatory term but also a British cigarette. There's that whole George Carlin routine where he talks about the word '******'. He says that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with that word-it's the racist asshole using it that you gotta be worried about. Unless they're hiding it well, there's nobody on our staff who's bigoted or homophobic. We're all very progressive, and as a result we feel comfortable making jokes. We know what our own beliefs are, so no matter what we do it can't possibly come from a negative place."

And that's how I've always felt about it too. I don't use language like '******' in public or to strangers or anything, but when I do use it, like when gaming with friends and reactively using it to describe an AI or something, I'm not thinking about homosexuality at all. It's just a word to me. The origins of it come from discrimination, but for many people it's not used that way ever.

I still agree with Gaymercon, and why they'd want to be away from people saying it constantly, but it doesn't necessarily represent latent homophobia, is all I'm trying to communicate.

 

[Kuomon]

Ok, let me give you an analogy. - snip - ... but they wouldn't have to worry about getting uncomfortable looks when they mention their same-sex partner, or getting stared at if they held hands as they perused artist's alley.

Your analogy is so specific and at the very same time can be applied to almost 1000 different parts of an individual's identity. There's almost always a potential "something" to worry about because the very nature of a group of 2 or more people is that each person is decidedly different and there's always one or several reasons we're adapting our behaviour.

If you take that thinking to its logical extreme you get none-sense like "Gay-black-short-women-middle aged-mer con". Add as many adjectives as you need in order to feel comfortable with the people around you.

Isn't the point of a convention that people who probably have very different tastes in other things (be it hobbies or choice of sexual partner), come together to geek out on whatever the chosen subject at hand is, be it comics/games/films?

I think your arguments are very poor reasons to segregate. General acceptance of LGBT people has undoubtedly increased 1000 fold in the past 100 years... we've gone from a majority that would hang a homosexual as a deviant to a minority who will maybe mutter and stare a little - and you're saying that now is the time to segregate because of a few stares?

In another few decades, with any luck, all people will have ceased to bat an eye-lid at a triviality such as sexual orientation - a good many of us already don't. I'd argue it's the small harmless things (like two gay people holding hands in public) that go the furthest toward changing general opinion for the better as they quietly express a new norm.

It's hardly "segregation" - it's an option. Gay people can attend any con they like, straight people can attend GaymerCon if they like. We should deny people the option to go somewhere that they can feel comfortable because...why, exactly?

It's a fair argument Susan, but I think conflating the idea of variety with the idea of social change inevitably does a disservice to both. Looking through the Gaymer Con website their mission statement seems to be to create a new status quo in gaming conventions which seems to imply a desire for social change. At the same time thought they've decided to call the event Gaymer Con, making it seem as though the event is directed to a very specific subset of people which would make them an option for those who fit into that subsection; an option if you will.
If the people running this event cannot be consistent about what their event is really about, I don't think we'll get very far here, making assumptions in an attempt to defend something or attack something.

P.S. I just used this conversation as a jumping off point so don't feel like this is personally directed at either of you.

 

[1337mokro]

Actually that Shaolin temple was financed through extortion and indoctrination of the people. A centuries long social hierarchy putting monks at the top of the food chain and basically everyone else at the bottom. Whilst the peasantry can barely sustain itself the monks life in golden palaces of comfort and luxury. The threat of damnation in the eyes of god and military retribution keeping the people subservient, most temples had their own armies and a legion of warrior monks not to mention the same feudal system as in Europe meaning the peasants didn't own the land, just worked it.

Besides the second panel it was quite a funny comic.

 

[Ukomba]

The problem is that it's self segregation. I can understand why they'd want to do it, but not convinced it's a good thing.

 

[Busard]

I didn't realise that the point of going to a game con was to fit in with other people.

I thought it was to be disappointed by the next releases and nurturing that ongoing resentment towards the whole gaming culture, then going back home and clawing your wallpapers again while sobbing and cursing the filthy casual.

Or that's just me

 

[cynicalsaint1]

Looking through the Gaymer Con website their mission statement seems to be to create a new status quo in gaming conventions which seems to imply a desire for social change. At the same time thought they've decided to call the event Gaymer Con, making it seem as though the event is directed to a very specific subset of people which would make them an option for those who fit into that subsection; an option if you will.

I'm a little confused why you think doing both is somehow mutually exclusive.
By holding the convention they draw publicity to their cause and demonstrate that there is a sizable audience of homosexuals who are into gaming, and therefore a demographic worth considering.

It also accomplishes the goal of allowing homosexuals to have a convention tailored specifically to their demographic, where they can feel comfortable, etc.

 

[hentropy]

But seriously... why DO chicks want their own bathroom? What do they have to hide?

 

[saintdane05]

Unless gaming conventions are REALLY homphobic events

Imagine Xbox live in person.

I kid.

Xbox live is probably friendlier.

Hilarity of my jokes aside, why do you care if they have a gaymer con? Need or not, they want it and since these thing exist entirely to satisfy want there is one.

I suggest you add more to this, my friend...

 

[saleem]

So does this mean we can have our men only clubs back?

 

[Kartoffelmos]

But there's a passive homophobia there -- using a term like calling someone a fa* (if you didn't notice, I hate that word above all others), you imply that there's something wrong with being gay, that makes that person less than human. I won't get into all the rhetorical happenings here and logical steps to get there, but the implication is there.

This called to mind an interview with Seth MacFarlane that I read where they asked him about that.

"How do you feel about the young straight community's cavalier use of the word 'gay' to describe stupidity or weakness?"

"I've used that term, but it's like a homonym-no pun intended. Like the word 'fag' is a derogatory term but also a British cigarette. There's that whole George Carlin routine where he talks about the word '******'. He says that there's nothing fundamentally wrong with that word-it's the racist asshole using it that you gotta be worried about. Unless they're hiding it well, there's nobody on our staff who's bigoted or homophobic. We're all very progressive, and as a result we feel comfortable making jokes. We know what our own beliefs are, so no matter what we do it can't possibly come from a negative place."

And that's how I've always felt about it too. I don't use language like '******' in public or to strangers or anything, but when I do use it, like when gaming with friends and reactively using it to describe an AI or something, I'm not thinking about homosexuality at all. It's just a word to me. The origins of it come from discrimination, but for many people it's not used that way ever.

I still agree with Gaymercon, and why they'd want to be away from people saying it constantly, but it doesn't necessarily represent latent homophobia, is all I'm trying to communicate.

Thing is, you don't get to decide how another person is supposed to interpret the words you use. If you say 'fa*' in front of a gay person and they feel upset about it, "I didn't mean 'gay'" is not a very good excuse.

I absolutely appreciate that you don't use it in front of strangers, but it's not hard to imagine that plenty of people will and have, even if they didn't mean 'gay'. To me, I find it pretty odd that some people think they can just detatch the word from its derogatory meaning with no issue whatsoever, obviously you know how the word has been widely used to put down gay people, so why not just use something else that doesn't have that context around it?

 

[Boris Goodenough]

But seriously... why DO chicks want their own bathroom? What do they have to hide?

Honestly I am glad they have their own bathrooms, imagine the queues us guys had to endure at sightseeing places and events?

 

[Oskuro]

Ok, to answer all those who say "I don't see why a gay convention is needed"

As long as anyone makes that question, it will be needed.

Once it becomes so normal as to not even warrant that reaction, then it won't be needed, but by then no one will care either way.

Which, ironically, is the point of all anti-discrimination movements, to make those being discriminated not special (that is, perceived as different/strange), so no one will bother to discriminate them.

Really, take a look at the massive postcounts on all articles related to Racism, Sexism or Homophobia on this site. If those are not an issue, as many claim, why do they warrant such a massive reaction every single time?

 

[ThisGuyLikesNoTacos]

The convention exist so insecure gays can talk about video games while feeling comfortable about their sexual orientation. It is not something which these people can have in a regular gaming convention.

We aren't in a position to judge the convention as segregation, since we aren't the targeted demographic. Doing so is just ignorant and (ironically) comes out as homophobic.

Even if you're gay and stand against Gaymer x 2013, you should know there are gays out there who want this for themselves and because of that we shouldn't fight it. The convention is after all harmless towards us, who don't have the need for it.

Edit: I do however question why we have separate bathrooms.

 

[Sepko]

Umm... I actually don't understand why the LGBT -community would need their own gaming convention. There isn't anything dickish about it though, and I don't see why that particular question even would be dickish.

From what I understand from this comic the Gaymer convention is going to take place in a secluded mountain temple and the activities will include homosexual pooping and peeing... maybe some application of makeup.

While I will not ever attempt to stop a Gaymer convention I don't see why one is needed. In almost every circle of gaming I interact on I have at least 3 homosexual friends and one trans(vestite/sexual)... I seem to attract them or something.

Certainly there are those who are disrespectful to homosexuals (homophobia is a terrible term, it implies an irrational FEAR, not petty malice and hatred) but I believe you will find them everywhere. Are there gay sporting events, gay debate clubs, gay chess clubs, gay boxing clubs? It just seems so redundant and self-segregating.

Would I be allowed to attend this Gaymer convention despite my sexual orientation? Do I require a homosexual escort while on premises? Do I have to be blindfolded on the trip there and back?

The problem is that it's self segregation. I can understand why they'd want to do it, but not convinced it's a good thing.

Read the epilogue text underneath the comic and then rethink your statements.
Here, I even found the relevant bit for you: "They ask why a minority pushing for acceptance and integration would "segregate" themselves. They're innocent questions, but they come from minds that, quite often, don't comprehend that being able to "fit in" (hoho) pretty much anywhere is one of the numerous luxuries that come with being straight. Indeed, feeling like you fit in is pretty much the entire point of going to a con isn't it?"

Also:

Would I be allowed to attend this Gaymer convention despite my sexual orientation? Do I require a homosexual escort while on premises? Do I have to be blindfolded on the trip there and back?

Yes. Why wouldn't you be able to attend if you were straight? Also your following questions are exactly the veiled dickishness that Cory/Grey are talking about. Don't be so naive/insultingly ignorant.

Also also:

Are there gay sporting events, gay debate clubs, gay chess clubs, gay boxing clubs?

Yes there are. Do you have any idea how gays are treated/shunned in the sporting world? It's slightly better than it was now but it's still not great. In a predominantly straight-male dominated event, it takes a while before change/equality comes along.

 

[Alcaste]

So does this mean we can have our men only clubs back?

Back? That's implying they were taken away. It also makes the implication that a gaymer con is turning away straight attendees... It is not.



--I think these are a good thing, but I can understand why some people wouldn't be able to see the need for them. Playing a lot of online games, I can see that in some cases it's absolutely drenched in homophobia, intentional or not. I imagine that when a word that is attributed to something that you care very deeply for is being used to describe something negative that would make you feel like shit.