On Gaymers and Cons

[Something Amyss]

They wouldn't need a doorman turning people away. The name says it all. Only this type of person is welcome here. The rest aren't!

Except that isn't even remotely true. You know how I know?

GaymerX says it's not. The last con didn't make it so. Straights attended. End of story.

Now, would you care to rephrase? Possibly answer my question? Maybe even apologise to "Gaymers" for false equivalence?

but I suppose your message was an attempt at sarcasm.

No, it was an attempt to point out how absurd it is to point out that the alternative will do exactly what the existing situation already does.

Look, it's nice that you have never noticed this sort of thing happening, that's good for you. Unfortunately, it is still a real thing which exists and which gays fear. Also, nobody's really proposing this as a "permanent" solution.

I'm sorry but what community doesn't take their lumps on a regular basis? Too old, to young, to rich, to poor, homed or homeless, hair too long, hair too short, casual or hardcore gamer. I don't know a single type of person who hasn't been singled out due to something and been picked on for it.

I was going to call this false equivalence, but then I remembered all those laws across the country calling to ban gamer marriages. Then it all came back: The Senators on TV opposing laws preventing you from beating up long hairs, the debate on letting poor people into the military, the "hardcore only" drinking fountains, chick Fil-a donating to anti-yourth organisations....

And now I feel horrible for daring to trivialise the struggles of those groups compared to homosexuals. Clearly, these groups have suffered enough for this to be a fair, equatable comparison.

 

[Schadrach]

What level witch are you? The "Satanic panic" of roleplaying games like Dungeons & Dragons leading to occultism has become cliché, but to what degree is it true?

Okay, do we actually think that anyone was really afraid D&D was satanic? I mean if i thought that a group of people especially the disenfrancised were getting demonic powers from a gaming manual, would you really go fuck with them?

Seriously?

I've got a book, it gives me demonic powers & you want to take away my book & by extension my demonic powers? An y ou think i'm going to just let you? If only i had some sort of demonic powers i could use to stop you?

I mean seriously, is there anyone alive who thinks those christians really thought that D&D gave demonic powers?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.ASP

The sad part is that Jack Chick isn't some kind of epic trolling machine, he actually believes what he says. His entire business is publishing books and comics that basically hate everything that isn't his particular flavor of Christianity.

 

[Something Amyss]

...Although, they do say "ally," and I can't help but feel he might be a bit antagonistic.

And in what universe is the word "ally" used antagonistically?

You may want to re-read that. I did not say that the word "ally" was antagonistic.

I said the wording of the GaymerX statement welcomed allies, and that the poster in question might come off as antagonistic.

 

[Something Amyss]

Innocent until proven guilty is a better way of dealing with people, in my experience and leads to less bad blood over all.

Pointing out the prevalence of homophobia in gaming is not accusing the idividual, however. She merely did that. At least, as far back in the conversation as I went.

She is correct. While not everyone is, there is a predominant homophobic, transphobic presence in gaming.

I don't know you and I don't judge you, but even if I knew you it wouldn't change the overall picture.

The LGBT demographic is commercially viable, but people are never going to realise that without tangible proof.

The problem here is that people still feel alienating heterosexuals, or even drawing protests. A commercial-scale game might be too big an albatross. Or, at least, so they fear.

Just saying.

Don't take this the wrong way but to me this does come off as flame-baiting, not something I would expect from featured content on the Escapist, I hoped this was a classier place than that.

I see yuo haven't watched Zero Punctuation, the Jimquisition, and have not read prior Critical Miss. All three are frequently accused of such things.

I don't get it....they thourght she wasnt gay enough?

or they thought she was slumming it.

Bisexuals (and if you want to extend it, pansexuals, etc) can get a lot of crap from gays and lesbians. Someone who's deemed to be "just looking" can get even more crap.

People use this as proof that gays are just as bigoted. It's really more proof that anyone can be a jerk.

 

[The Material Sheep]

To the guy above me, since I havent quite figured out how to do individual quotes.

I'm fine with addressing the overall problem, I just don't find these exclusionary practices help in that regard. Just seems like more setting up your own tents to have an excuse to justify your tribe. Instead of just... I don't know having fun at a gaming convention. IF there really is a serious problem of homophobia and discrimination at regular gaming conventions then I feel the question should be aimed at why can't we fix those instead of making an exclusive one. Stop dividing and start finding common ground.

PS: I know it's not really exclusive but naming something Gaymer Con doesn't evoke a message of everyone is welcome.

PSS: Homosexuals can be incredibly bigoted and mean jerks. They can also be incredibly nice great people(I like to think I'm a nice person :3)who just want to live and let live. Bigotry is not exclusive to anyone one group of people, it's a dumb idea that harkens back to our days as tribal primitives who loved to make their us vs thems to feel safe and secure.

 

[TheEvilRatigan]

On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article

Dear Mr Carter I would like it if you would NOT use such comments such as the following "steeped in that luxurious ignorance particular to white teenagers".
As I am a white teenager myself I feel offended that you would use a negative stereotype to insult us while then trying to breed understanding and tolerance as you are undermining your own message by doing so (insulting said people who ask said questions when you your self said it is simply because they are ignorant) also does not help your cause and simply anger people.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^

Your objection is on par with people objecting to misandry, or reverse racism. Yeah, it's a little hypocritical to stereotype white teenagers, but many deserve it, and there haven't been years of hatred directed at white teenagers. Quit whining.

 

[The Material Sheep]

On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article

Dear Mr Carter I would like it if you would NOT use such comments such as the following "steeped in that luxurious ignorance particular to white teenagers".
As I am a white teenager myself I feel offended that you would use a negative stereotype to insult us while then trying to breed understanding and tolerance as you are undermining your own message by doing so (insulting said people who ask said questions when you your self said it is simply because they are ignorant) also does not help your cause and simply anger people.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^

Your objection is on par with people objecting to misandry, or reverse racism. Yeah, it's a little hypocritical to stereotype white teenagers, but many deserve it, and there haven't been years of hatred directed at white teenagers. Quit whining.

Either bigotry is wrong or it isn't. It's fine to get pissed off and angry at those who are actively apart of bigotry, but to punish those who aren't is just wrong.

The systematic oppression through out history of non straight white males isn't what makes bigotry wrong. It's what makes the history tragic and regrettable. Bigotry is wrong because its an unfair judge of character, unfairly marginalizing those who are different for things out of their control. It's not a blank check to turn around and start throwing it the other way, just because there is a history of it.

 

[EtherealBeaver]

double post

 

[EtherealBeaver]

Why is sexuality even a question when it comes to a gaming con? I thought the idea was to play or watch video games. I can see how its very relevant in night clubs etc where (often at least) the focus is romantically inclined but making a Gaymer Con is like making a Gay Kitchen Appliances shop.

I have tons of gay friends and they have never expressed problems fitting into the gamer community because sex is not really a concern there. I think the idea of a Gayming con is pointless and if anything, it sets gay gamers in a worse spot because it points out that they think they need to get segregated to fit in. And yes I did read the text following the comic.

inb4 people who flame me and call me a bigot



Edit: Also...

On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article

Dear Mr Carter I would like it if you would NOT use such comments such as the following "steeped in that luxurious ignorance particular to white teenagers".
As I am a white teenager myself I feel offended that you would use a negative stereotype to insult us while then trying to breed understanding and tolerance as you are undermining your own message by doing so (insulting said people who ask said questions when you your self said it is simply because they are ignorant) also does not help your cause and simply anger people.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^

Your objection is on par with people objecting to misandry, or reverse racism. Yeah, it's a little hypocritical to stereotype white teenagers, but many deserve it, and there haven't been years of hatred directed at white teenagers. Quit whining.

Wow.

Did you just say that its unfair to talk crap about one group because not all are in a certain way but its okay to talk crap about another group because some are in a certain way? You good sir truly do enjoy double standards.

Its like saying its bad to flip the bird at criminals because not all of them are bad people but its okay to flip the bird to non-criminals because some of them are bastards.

 

[Abomination]

Its like saying its bad to flip the bird at criminals because not all of them are bad people but its okay to flip the bird to non-criminals because some of them are bastards.

Are you really comparing being homosexual to being a criminal? That is just the kind of bigote--

Okay, I'm kidding. Can just see that analogy striking the wrong chord somewhere.

The hilarious thing is there haven't been PAST years of hatred directed at white teenagers - that's reserved for TODAY. And because there is bigotry towards the group TODAY is what makes it okay, apparently. Seems almost the same as the bigotry towards any other group in the past.

 

[positiveParadox]

What level witch are you? The "Satanic panic" of roleplaying games like Dungeons & Dragons leading to occultism has become cliché, but to what degree is it true?

Okay, do we actually think that anyone was really afraid D&D was satanic? I mean if i thought that a group of people especially the disenfrancised were getting demonic powers from a gaming manual, would you really go fuck with them?

Seriously?

I've got a book, it gives me demonic powers & you want to take away my book & by extension my demonic powers? An y ou think i'm going to just let you? If only i had some sort of demonic powers i could use to stop you?

I mean seriously, is there anyone alive who thinks those christians really thought that D&D gave demonic powers?

http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.ASP

The sad part is that Jack Chick isn't some kind of epic trolling machine, he actually believes what he says. His entire business is publishing books and comics that basically hate everything that isn't his particular flavor of Christianity.

That was so bad. I think I'm gonna puke.

 

[NemotheElvenPanda]

Er...I don't know. On one hand, as a gamer, a con is a con. There really isn't much of a difference in terms on what you're getting if the resources and entertainment are the same. Yet on the other as gay man, I can understand why so many gay gamers (gaymers, really?) would want their own thing. Go to any forum board -heck, Escapist's- and look through a page about same-sex relationships, homosexuality, and you'll see what I mean. Personally, I don't wear my sexuality on my sleeve, so being in event full of straight guys doesn't bother me, but if I with my hypothetical boyfriend, I'd be lying if I said wasn't a tiny bit paranoid. I think the "Teenage White Guy" comment was a low blow, but it's not *entirely* without justice unfortunately.

 

[RadioactiveMicrobe]

So are my LGBT friends homophobic for saying it's stupid?

 

[squid5580]

They wouldn't need a doorman turning people away. The name says it all. Only this type of person is welcome here. The rest aren't!

Except that isn't even remotely true. You know how I know?

GaymerX says it's not. The last con didn't make it so. Straights attended. End of story.

Now, would you care to rephrase? Possibly answer my question? Maybe even apologise to "Gaymers" for false equivalence?

but I suppose your message was an attempt at sarcasm.

No, it was an attempt to point out how absurd it is to point out that the alternative will do exactly what the existing situation already does.

Look, it's nice that you have never noticed this sort of thing happening, that's good for you. Unfortunately, it is still a real thing which exists and which gays fear. Also, nobody's really proposing this as a "permanent" solution.

I'm sorry but what community doesn't take their lumps on a regular basis? Too old, to young, to rich, to poor, homed or homeless, hair too long, hair too short, casual or hardcore gamer. I don't know a single type of person who hasn't been singled out due to something and been picked on for it.

I was going to call this false equivalence, but then I remembered all those laws across the country calling to ban gamer marriages. Then it all came back: The Senators on TV opposing laws preventing you from beating up long hairs, the debate on letting poor people into the military, the "hardcore only" drinking fountains, chick Fil-a donating to anti-yourth organisations....

And now I feel horrible for daring to trivialise the struggles of those groups compared to homosexuals. Clearly, these groups have suffered enough for this to be a fair, equatable comparison.

Silly me I forgot that if I assault someone of my same race and sexual orientation it is merely a crime. But if I were to assault someone of a different race or sexual orientation it is a hate crime. No matter the actual reasoning behind it. Mmm tastes like equality.

As long as there is these lines drawn in the sand things aren't going to change. Not while 1 side sees the line and runs away. It went from we are here we are we'ere get used to it to we are queer and we will be over there away from you guys. Now exactly how is that going to change anything.

And you know that sometimes gay people get passed over for promotions or beat up because they can be assholes to right? Everytime a LGBT suffers it isn't because of sexual orientation.

 

[jimbob123432]

As a bi gamer, I don't see a problem with Gaymer X (although a more subtle title might be needed) as long as it's not exclusive. But then again, I guess I'm biased.

 

[f1r2a3n4k5]

Silly me I forgot that if I assault someone of my same race and sexual orientation it is merely a crime. But if I were to assault someone of a different race or sexual orientation it is a hate crime. No matter the actual reasoning behind it. Mmm tastes like equality.

False. If you beat assault someone of a different race or sexual orientation BECAUSE OF that race or sexual orientation, THEN it is a hate crime.

And there has been a lot of examples about how gaming and sexuality are related already, but I haven't seen this one. How many of ya'll gamers would LOVE to meet a gal who also likes to play video games. Isn't that the golden standard of "awesome girlfriend" in these circles? Would you ever feel bad if your romantic partner thought games are a "waste of time?"

 

[Baneat]

"I don't see why we'd want to strawman people's arguments then act like we're superior"

There are practical considerations to the monk and bathroom examples stop acting like they're analogous thank you kindly.

 

[Samus Aran but a man]

I'm just happy to have a homophobia-free event for gamers. Anyone can attend, so I don't see the so-called "segregative harm" that it apparently causes. Also, it's hard for gays to hook up with other gays, so... yeah that's a good reason to have it.

 

[knight steel]

On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article

Dear Mr Carter I would like it if you would NOT use such comments such as the following "steeped in that luxurious ignorance particular to white teenagers".
As I am a white teenager myself I feel offended that you would use a negative stereotype to insult us while then trying to breed understanding and tolerance as you are undermining your own message by doing so (insulting said people who ask said questions when you your self said it is simply because they are ignorant) also does not help your cause and simply anger people.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^

Your objection is on par with people objecting to misandry, or reverse racism. Yeah, it's a little hypocritical to stereotype white teenagers, but many deserve it, and there haven't been years of hatred directed at white teenagers. Quit whining.

Nooooooooooooo I doooooooooooon't waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant toooooooooooooooooo
But seriously many don't deserve it and how can we ever come together as a group if we flick between hating different groups it just undermines the progress we went through.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^

 

[JudgeGame]

On Gaymers and Cons

Don't be that guy.

Read Full Article

Dear Mr Carter I would like it if you would NOT use such comments such as the following "steeped in that luxurious ignorance particular to white teenagers".
As I am a white teenager myself I feel offended that you would use a negative stereotype to insult us while then trying to breed understanding and tolerance as you are undermining your own message by doing so (insulting said people who ask said questions when you your self said it is simply because they are ignorant) also does not help your cause and simply anger people.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^

Your objection is on par with people objecting to misandry, or reverse racism. Yeah, it's a little hypocritical to stereotype white teenagers, but many deserve it, and there haven't been years of hatred directed at white teenagers. Quit whining.

Nooooooooooooo I doooooooooooon't waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaant toooooooooooooooooo
But seriously many don't deserve it and how can we ever come together as a group if we flick between hating different groups it just undermines the progress we went through.
Your's truly the wonderful all knowing and kind leader of the human race known as knight steel ^_^

But you understand that the ignorance comes from the fact they are in a position of privilege and have been able to go through life blissfully unaware of the problems other demographics face, right?