Our Covid Response

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,118
4,309
118
I've heard college education is worth the loan, though it is expensive sure. Statistically it seems worth it anyway.
A degree can normally be estimated as worth however much money - probably by some measure of comparing the lifetime earnings of people with degree against those without. In the UK, a degree has been estimated to be worth £200,000 or so. Set against this, a degree (UK) will cost you a touch short of £30k in fees, probably about the same again in living expenses, and of course that's three years you're not earning anything - so hardly a big advantage across your lifetime. In many cases, of course, degrees are simply keys to unlock what you want to do because they are otherwise inaccessible.

It's also worth bearing in mind the huge disparity in earnings due to the wealth gap. Lots of jobs that require degrees don't pay that well, and most very high earning jobs are done by people with degrees. I dare say a lot of talented people - or perhaps talented in certain areas - could do a lot worse than skipping one.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
6,275
1,687
118
A degree can normally be estimated as worth however much money - probably by some measure of comparing the lifetime earnings of people with degree against those without. In the UK, a degree has been estimated to be worth £200,000 or so. Set against this, a degree (UK) will cost you a touch short of £30k in fees, probably about the same again in living expenses, and of course that's three years you're not earning anything - so hardly a big advantage across your lifetime. In many cases, of course, degrees are simply keys to unlock what you want to do because they are otherwise inaccessible.

It's also worth bearing in mind the huge disparity in earnings due to the wealth gap. Lots of jobs that require degrees don't pay that well, and most very high earning jobs are done by people with degrees. I dare say a lot of talented people - or perhaps talented in certain areas - could do a lot worse than skipping one.
It should also be pointed out that "degree" is often lumped in with any sort of education and certificate. While full on college educations are indeed very expensive and can be a waste of money if your choose to get a degree in something that has little applicable job prospects. There are a wide variety of trade school programs that are remarkably cheap.

From medical professions such as Nursing which can be done for <$20k for the full course of education. To the wide array of deperately needed trade professionals as i've repeatedly mentioned. Things like Plumber, Electrician, Heavy Machinery operation (cranes, trackers, industrial vehicles), Telephone service, cable service, Construction, Home repair, etc etc.

What this thread has become is just people being mad at the rich because employers aren't paying top dollar for someone to ask, "Would you like fries with that?" Entry level, remedial jobs are jobs you are supposed to grow out of by the time you are 25. If you are still doing these jobs into your 30's then you simply haven't done anything to improve yourself and have settled for working in a low ranking position because you've never had the desire to better your life. It isn't the 1%'s fault, it is entirely your fault for not seeking promotion, seeking either education or training, hunted for a better paying job.

And now that the end of the unemployment train is pulling into the station people are realizing that they are soon going to go back to those "shitty" jobs when they've done absolutely nothing over the last year to try and improve themselves. From online courses, to just outright job hunting for a position in a better field.

There is absolutely NOTHING work with working a low level job. However there is something wrong with crying about it when there is a wealth of options and opportunity out there to make a change for yourself. Stop waiting for the world to serve you on a silver platter, it aint gonna happen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Phoenixmgs

Satinavian

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 5, 2020
953
206
48
From medical professions such as Nursing which can be done for <$20k for the full course of education. To the wide array of deperately needed trade professionals as i've repeatedly mentioned. Things like Plumber, Electrician, Heavy Machinery operation (cranes, trackers, industrial vehicles), Telephone service, cable service, Construction, Home repair, etc etc.

What this thread has become is just people being mad at the rich because employers aren't paying top dollar for someone to ask, "Would you like fries with that?" Entry level, remedial jobs are jobs you are supposed to grow out of by the time you are 25. If you are still doing these jobs into your 30's then you simply haven't done anything to improve yourself and have settled for working in a low ranking position because you've never had the desire to better your life. It isn't the 1%'s fault, it is entirely your fault for not seeking promotion, seeking either education or training, hunted for a better paying job.
If it is so easy to qualify for something better and those jobs are so bad that you are supposed to leave them as soon as possible, why not just skip them altogether ?
 

Seanchaidh

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 24, 2020
3,660
2,053
118
Country
United States of America
What this thread has become is just people being mad at the rich because employers aren't paying top dollar for someone to ask, "Would you like fries with that?"
You can get paid more for just owning a certain amount of McDonald's shares. Which means literally doing nothing. And it would fall apart without someone to work the cash register, whether they upsell or not.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrCalavera

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
6,275
1,687
118
If it is so easy to qualify for something better and those jobs are so bad that you are supposed to leave them as soon as possible, why not just skip them altogether ?
Because high school kids needs jobs, people work them while in college for spending money, or books, or whatever. Job experience is never a bad thing to have and it can be a great tool to teach 16-18 year olds responsibility and early money mangement. Plus, as i said before, these jobs can also serve as stepping stones to career paths. You can become manger, district manager, professional chef, franchisee all from just an entry fast food position.

The thing about jobs is, if you treat them like shit then all you'll get is shit out of them.

You can get paid more for just owning a certain amount of McDonald's shares. Which means literally doing nothing. And it would fall apart without someone to work the cash register, whether they upsell or not.
And where would someone have gotten the money to buy shares in the first place? People don't start life rich you know. Sure if you are rich then your kids are already ahead of the game, but Bill Gates has flat out said that his kids aint getting shit from him so even that isn't a guarantee. The point is, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, most famous people and athletes started from fucking nothing. Big hollywood actors worked shitty stage plays, minor roles, all kinds of shit before hitting it big. The wealth typically doesn't appear from their pockets like magic.
 

Seanchaidh

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 24, 2020
3,660
2,053
118
Country
United States of America
And where would someone have gotten the money to buy shares in the first place?
Why does it matter? Owning shares is literally doing nothing. You may as well ask where a planter got the money to buy slaves.

People don't start life rich you know.
Rich people typically do.

The point is, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, most famous people and athletes started from fucking nothing.
Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos did not "start from nothing" lmao
 
  • Like
Reactions: Buyetyen

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
7,118
4,309
118
What this thread has become is just people being mad at the rich because employers aren't paying top dollar for someone to ask, "Would you like fries with that?" Entry level, remedial jobs are jobs you are supposed to grow out of by the time you are 25. If you are still doing these jobs into your 30's then you simply haven't done anything to improve yourself and have settled for working in a low ranking position because you've never had the desire to better your life. It isn't the 1%'s fault, it is entirely your fault for not seeking promotion, seeking either education or training, hunted for a better paying job.
With all due respect, that's bollocks.

The fundamental issue with the 1% is only 1/100th of the population can get there. Everyone can strive all they like, all it does it create more competition for the same limited pool of top jobs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bluegate

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 12, 2020
4,473
2,277
118
Country
United States
Because high school kids needs jobs, people work them while in college for spending money, or books, or whatever.
You are currently living in your ideal world of "only students who don't need to pay rent can afford these jobs".

If you haven't been paying attention, it's going badly for the franchisee.
Job experience is never a bad thing to have and it can be a great tool to teach 16-18 year olds responsibility and early money mangement. Plus, as i said before, these jobs can also serve as stepping stones to career paths. You can become manger, district manager, professional chef, franchisee all from just an entry fast food position.
It is smart and reasonable to assume there's just as many managers as burger-flippers, and anybody that cannot make the transitions deserve poverty.
The thing about jobs is, if you treat them like shit then all you'll get is shit out of them.
A sentiment that doesn't apply to being shit to people working these jobs, apparently
And where would someone have gotten the money to buy shares in the first place? People don't start life rich you know. Sure if you are rich then your kids are already ahead of the game, but Bill Gates has flat out said that his kids aint getting shit from him so even that isn't a guarantee. The point is, Jeff Bezos, Bill Gates, most famous people and athletes started from fucking nothing. Big hollywood actors worked shitty stage plays, minor roles, all kinds of shit before hitting it big. The wealth typically doesn't appear from their pockets like magic.
Yeah, Bill Gates started from *nothing*, just an elite private school education leading to Harvard from the backing of wealthy and influential parents,
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 12, 2020
4,473
2,277
118
Country
United States
It's saving money. McDonald's pays 2.14% in dividends per year. Are you not supposed to get a bit of interest on top of your savings?
That's not savings, that's capital income. That's earning money by doing *nothing*.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
6,275
1,687
118
With all due respect, that's bollocks.

The fundamental issue with the 1% is only 1/100th of the population can get there. Everyone can strive all they like, all it does it create more competition for the same limited pool of top jobs.
Again you are falling under the mentality that if you aren't part of the 1% then your life sucks. And that is part of the problem.

Nowhere in my statements did I ever claim following my advise would make you rich. We are simply talking about being in a stable living situation from a financial position. Getting a decent job where you can have a happy work/life balance.

That doesn't require you to be in the 1%. There is plenty of happiness to be found in the middle class, and it is very unhealthy to think if you aren't a millionaire you can't be satisfied in life. Then again, that attitude is how you become a millionaire so....you do you i guess.

A sentiment that doesn't apply to being shit to people working these jobs, apparently
What is being shit to them? Not paying them $25/hr? Because of my 10 years of fast food work experience never have I felt the company treated me like shit. Customers on the other hand well....they've been quite shit but that is hardly the fault of the company.

Maybe when you go out to these cheap places and retail stores, don't treat the employees like shit and it wouldn't be so bad.

And if young people weren't taught that these jobs were shit, they'd have a better attitude an experience working there. We need to teach people a better work ethic, because I can't tell you how many people I've worked with both in and out of these types of jobs who just had a shit attitude about it, didn't give a shit, showed up late, treated the job like it was an inconvenience. What do you expect when you treat a job like that? You think your employer is going to respect you?
 

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 12, 2020
4,473
2,277
118
Country
United States
Somewhat related, a jobs website just floated the idea of me being a Pizza Hut General Manager.

Guess what the salary they are offering is, I fucking dare you. (Salary means no overtime pay, that's very important)

If you bust your ass for years climbing the ladder, you too can eventually earn a whopping $40,000 a year running a whole ass restaurant. No overtime pay, 50-60 hour weeks. Unless they pick up your new general manager from a jobs website, because fuck promoting from within

Edit: Well, maybe the listing doesn't have a hilarious typo and they *are* actually offering $40,000/hr
 

Satinavian

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 5, 2020
953
206
48
Because high school kids needs jobs, people work them while in college for spending money, or books, or whatever. Job experience is never a bad thing to have and it can be a great tool to teach 16-18 year olds responsibility and early money mangement. Plus, as i said before, these jobs can also serve as stepping stones to career paths. You can become manger, district manager, professional chef, franchisee all from just an entry fast food position.
I disagree. After school you either go to university for a useful degree (insert college when your education system has one) or you start an apprenticeship and learn a proper craft.
The idea is to become "skilled workforce" as soon as possible because every year as unskilled is just a wasted year with lots of work for little money and without learning anything useful compared to what you could have learned elsewhere.

That is even true for your examples. If you want to manage a restaurant, having some management/buissness degree is more useful than having worked there. If you want to become a chef, start as apprentice for that and learn proper cooking instead of serving pre-cooked stuff.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: MrCalavera

TheMysteriousGX

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 12, 2020
4,473
2,277
118
Country
United States
What is being shit to them? Not paying them $25/hr? Because of my 10 years of fast food work experience never have I felt the company treated me like shit. Customers on the other hand well....they've been quite shit but that is hardly the fault of the company.

Maybe when you go out to these cheap places and retail stores, don't treat the employees like shit and it wouldn't be so bad.

And if young people weren't taught that these jobs were shit, they'd have a better attitude an experience working there. We need to teach people a better work ethic, because I can't tell you how many people I've worked with both in and out of these types of jobs who just had a shit attitude about it, didn't give a shit, showed up late, treated the job like it was an inconvenience. What do you expect when you treat a job like that? You think your employer is going to respect you?
Going from zero to It's All The Employee's Fault in less than a paragraph, impressive.
 

CriticalGaming

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 3, 2020
6,275
1,687
118
Going from zero to It's All The Employee's Fault in less than a paragraph, impressive.
I also said the customer was at fault to.

The crazy thing about freedom is that if you hate your job, you can go look for another one. Even if it is only a step sideways. You can leave a bad situation (assuming your manager or employer is a dickbag) and go find something else.

So no, I don't really understand your problem in this. What I hear is just excuses.