Our Covid Response

Phoenixmgs

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It should be noted that Makary is a surgeon by profession. He has extensive experience of such subjects as oncological surgery and preventing surgical complications.

He has no professional or educational experience of virology, immunology, or epidemiology.
Yet he's right far more than Fauci has been...

You then proceed to reference a man who is not an expert in this field because he says what you've already chosen to believe. What a joke.
You don't need to be an expert in every fucking field to be able to read the data. And he is an expert in the public health field. Marty was for spreading out the doses at least as early as February because that's what the data said provided better immunity. But, of course, the US didn't follow that, the UK did though. And now google "vaccine spacing" and you'll see that Marty was right. Why would I have chosen to believe something like vaccine spacing? I took the one and done J&J vaccine. The fact is that Marty is right more often than what Fauci is telling you or the public health messaging. I couldn't care less what is the truth, I just wanna to know it. Also, Marty said January 2020 we have to start doing drastic things and here's Fauci telling New Yorkers on February 29th that it's perfectly safe and continue on like normal when the virus was rampaging through the city. Why would I take Fauci's word on things when he's wrong more than other doctors?


Don't bother acquainting yourself.

As far as I can see, Makary is enjoys spouting in media on stuff he doesn't necessarily know that much about. Lots of so-called "experts" are just people with a qualification somewhere in the right sort of area who are more interested in getting public attention than they are in really knowing their shit.



You are just about one of the worst fucking offenders on this forum on this.

I suppose at the kindest we might say you are trying to follow the science, except that metaphorically you are a man trying to get somewhere by reading instructions in a language you don't understand and taking advice from passers-by based on how much you like their haircuts.
Marty is a public health expert. He's right far more than Fauci. Remember when Marty said vaccinating kids is not a done deal because you have to do risk-benefit analysis and guess what your own country's advisory panel did not recommend... oh, that's right, vaccines for teenagers are not recommended because they did the analysis.

And you won't actually post data on anything you say and think the virus meaningfully spreads outside, which nobody thinks anymore. I wonder why the CDC brought back masking only for indoors and hasn't mentioned outdoors in forever.


Question to those telling us to choose between health and the economy: What is my incentive to go out there and die for the economy?
So you can be financially well-off and have a better quality life. If you live in America, so you can have health insurance and not go bankrupt from hospital bills if you do get sick from covid or anything else (which not working doesn't protect you from). Of course, everyone's job provides some affect on others, things need to be made, shipped, and sold, services need to be available. If you can grow and hunt your own food, provide yourself with shelter and power and internet, take care of yourself medically and all that, then yeah, you have no reason to die for the economy. I can fully understand people calling bullshit on participating in the economy if their job provided no health insurance and it was the time before vaccines were readily available. I'm not sure if this is just about the economy during that time (no vaccines) or from the start of the pandemic to now. Because right now, with vaccines readily available in the countries of probably most posters here, why would you be worried about covid now with free readily available immunity?
 

Kwak

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About 45k annually. Enough to pay bills, necessities, and spend on all the other things that make an economy run besides just grocery stores.
3 times the average rent should do it.
But isnt this whole argument based on people working shit jobs for shit pay? Who would work a shit job for no reason?
Robots.
What if robots did all the work. Why shouldn't people be free to enjoy life free from the requirement of time-prostitution?
 
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Buyetyen

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So you can be financially well-off and have a better quality life.
We've already covered why shitty wages are not a good enough incentive to work during a disaster. Unsurprisingly, you don't appear to have kept up with the conversation.
 

Agema

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Marty is a public health expert. He's right far more than Fauci.
This must remain a moot point, given that no-one has done anything even close to a useful study on it.

Remember when Marty said vaccinating kids is not a done deal because you have to do risk-benefit analysis and guess what your own country's advisory panel did not recommend...
Do you also admire mathematicians as geniuses for saying that 2 + 2 = 4?

And you won't actually post data on anything you say and think the virus meaningfully spreads outside, which nobody thinks anymore.
You say "post data", but the data is already posted. You just don't realise it, because of how completely incompetent you are at drawing conclusions from science.

Indoor transmission is unquestionably a much bigger problem than outdoors. What you are trying to do here is manipulate the fact that studies suggest up to an estimated 95% or so of transmission being indoors is the same as saying outdoors is safe. To which the only thing that needs to be pointed out is: what about that other 5%? The existence of that 5% means there are things you can do outside that involve elevated risk, doesn't it?

The clever thing to do at this juncture is think, hmm, what are these outdoors activities where spread is happening? And seeing as we have a pretty good idea what they are - like chatting to someone face to face in close proximity, or being in crowded spaces - maybe you should use a mask for those activities. And indeed, this is in fact what a great number of health bodies still recommend, contrary to your claim "nobody thinks" that.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Robots.
What if robots did all the work. Why shouldn't people be free to enjoy life free from the requirement of time-prostitution?
Terminator, i-robot, robocop. Do you want a robot uprising? Because this is how you get a robot uprising.

Also people need to work. Studies have shown that there is a rise in depression and other mental health issues arise when people have nothing to do. Too much leisure time is just as damning on your health as not enough.

And this line of thinking isnt really useful now because your idea is science fiction and probably 100 years away if ever.
 

Kwak

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Terminator, i-robot, robocop. Do you want a robot uprising? Because this is how you get a robot uprising.

Also people need to work. Studies have shown that there is a rise in depression and other mental health issues arise when people have nothing to do. Too much leisure time is just as damning on your health as not enough.

And this line of thinking isnt really useful now because your idea is science fiction and probably 100 years away if ever.
Automation. A robot doesn't mean a humanoid simulant.
We've invented all sorts of things tu do which the majority can't engage with because they're stuck in the survival loop doing a thing they have to do but don't enjoy. People would take up boating, wind surfing, hiking, camping, motorbike racing, exploration, art, craft, music.
You really think people will be depressed because they don't have to serve other jerks food anymore?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Terminator, i-robot, robocop. Do you want a robot uprising? Because this is how you get a robot uprising.

Also people need to work. Studies have shown that there is a rise in depression and other mental health issues arise when people have nothing to do. Too much leisure time is just as damning on your health as not enough.
We'll find stuff to do, mate. We ran the stores out of flour just because people wanted to try baking during the first lockdowns.

The main problem with boredom is that everything costs fucking money.
And this line of thinking isnt really useful now because your idea is science fiction and probably 100 years away if ever.
Wait, so we can't raise wages because it will jumpstart huge amounts of automation...that won't happen for at least a century and is largely a science fiction.

So we should just raise the wages then.
Automation. A robot doesn't mean a humanoid simulant.
We've invented all sorts of things tu do which the majority can't engage with because they're stuck in the survival loop doing a thing they have to do but don't enjoy. People would take up boating, wind surfing, hiking, camping, motorbike racing, exploration, art, craft, music.
You really think people will be depressed because they don't have to serve other jerks food anymore?
Corollary, I've had my first dreams in 5 year after quitting the failing business I worked for. Some people really believe retail is *good* for people's mental health and I really don't get it.
 

CriticalGaming

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Some people really believe retail is *good* for people's mental health and I really don't get it.
To be fair. Retail is only bad because other people (customers) make it bad. If people didnt treat retail workers like shit, there would be no problem with it.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Anyway, Montana is 47% vaccinated and the bigger cities are requesting morgue trucks and national guard staffing to keep our hospitals running.

I don't think "but what if no restrictions instead of some restrictions" would have been a good play.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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To be fair. Retail is only bad because other people (customers) make it bad. If people didnt treat retail workers like shit, there would be no problem with it.
Yeah, probably has something to do with that "you should take your shit pay and fuck you if you complain about it, if you were smart you wouldn't work this job, loser" mentality.
 

CriticalGaming

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Automation. A robot doesn't mean a humanoid simulant.
We've invented all sorts of things tu do which the majority can't engage with because they're stuck in the survival loop doing a thing they have to do but don't enjoy. People would take up boating, wind surfing, hiking, camping, motorbike racing, exploration, art, craft, music.
You really think people will be depressed because they don't have to serve other jerks food anymore?
You didnt say some of the work. You said ALL of the work. There is a big difference. And yes those hobbies are all well and good, but the well on those runs dry. As much if a fan of video games as i am, there are a lot of times when i dont want to play, when i want to do something more. People need tasks eventually. And again some paradise in which nobody has to work is simply a pipedream.
 

Kwak

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You didnt say some of the work. You said ALL of the work. There is a big difference. And yes those hobbies are all well and good, but the well on those runs dry. As much if a fan of video games as i am, there are a lot of times when i dont want to play, when i want to do something more. People need tasks eventually. And again some paradise in which nobody has to work is simply a pipedream.
You asked a hypothetical - who would do the shit jobs if everyone was guaranteed a basic income regardless. The answer is, again, robots. Automate the basic drudge-work that keeps a society running. It's not a pipedream.
 

Silvanus

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Also people need to work. Studies have shown that there is a rise in depression and other mental health issues arise when people have nothing to do. Too much leisure time is just as damning on your health as not enough.
You know what else studies show leads to an enormous amount of mental health issues and depression?

Work.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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You know what else studies show leads to an enormous amount of mental health issues and depression?

Work.
Hell, give somebody a guaranteed income and no obligations and you will be shocked just how many of them start that business. How many of these billionaires running around got started by risking actual poverty? Approximately zero. They all had upper middle class families to fall back on, hundreds of thousands of dollars in infrastructure and seed money, and if it failed they got to go back to Not Poor.

Give a bunch of poor people a stack of cash and no risk of homelessness and see what happens. If giving wealth to already rich people motivates already rich people, why wouldn't it motivate poor people?
 
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Avnger

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Anyway, Montana is 47% vaccinated and the bigger cities are requesting morgue trucks and national guard staffing to keep our hospitals running.

I don't think "but what if no restrictions instead of some restrictions" would have been a good play.
Who cares? Those are other people, not me; probably just a bunch of unskilled, lazy poors anyway. I mean, I had to wait a whole 2 minutes to get my milkshake today. Won't anyone think of the milkshake orderers? Why doesn't anyone but me have empathy anymore?
 
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Cheetodust

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You didnt say some of the work. You said ALL of the work. There is a big difference. And yes those hobbies are all well and good, but the well on those runs dry. As much if a fan of video games as i am, there are a lot of times when i dont want to play, when i want to do something more. People need tasks eventually. And again some paradise in which nobody has to work is simply a pipedream.
Currently practicing Olympic weightlifting, studying part time and trying to write a novel and a podcast. Also actively involved with a couple of volunteer groups. Oh and when indoor sports trianing is back I plan on getting back into wrestling training. I'm pretty certain I would be MORE productive if I didn't have a job.

Most of us are doing at best pointless shit and at worst actively detrimental shit just because work, no matter how unneeded it is, is how we value people and that's dumb.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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And every unemployed person says the same just with "have to look for a job" instead. Falls on deaf ears for a good reason.
Why's "but they aren't creating value for shareholders" a good argument? Lotta people doing physically taxing, emotionally abusive, pointless busywork for shit wages

The jobs are apparently essential. They should be payed like it