Pakistan Bans Facebook Over "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day"

[Evil mr dave]

Because its relavent to this discussion you should probably watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ok4njJXI8

 

[ShadowKirby]

Ironic. A bunch of people say "Hell yeah! Let's all draw Mohammed to piss off those muslims fanatics (and the non-fanatics too btw) because we are all cool freedom of speech fighters who hate people that send death threats" but the second Thompson, Atkinson or Ebert tells something about videogames, people spam their mailbox and send them death threats.

Fanatics sucks, but so does the people who are being trolls because of other peoples faith or beliefs.

 

[oktalist]

Censorship is always wrong, but there is an understandable reason in the case of India (not saying I agree with it). With their history of religious violence it may reasonably be seen as enciting hatred. They also share a border with a Muslim country. In the past decade they have endured an average of three significant terrorist attacks per year and the rate of death by terrorism is skyrocketing.

That being said, it's only Muslims that are forbidden from depicting Mohammad. Non-Muslims are, of course, not bound by Islamic law.

 

[Reliq]

Just a quick mindvent, the majority here seems to find the anger from muslims at the depiction of mohammed a strange and unjustified response.

If we just break it down to: A group of people is angry. Because a second group of people, is doing something that the first group have been taught throughout life is wrong, to a symbol they love.

Lets see how this fits.

How many americans would be screaming for blood if there was a facebook page with 100 000+ people named "piss on the american flag day"? (and where posting pictures)

Myself i have no love for mohammed or the american flag for that matter. But i can think of a few things id be seriously pissed off at others for making a public spectacle of. Everyone has things/people/symbols they cherish, and would rather not see made fun of. Some people tend to get violent when they see it done.

Picking a fight just because you consider it to be your right to do so, seems rather a pointless way to use the freedom of speech.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[maninahat]

"We strongly believe that Facebook users have the freedom to express their opinions, and we don't typically take down content, groups or pages that speak out against countries, religions, political entities or ideas"

I kind of think it is bullshit of groups like youtube and facebook to bang on about how they will continue to allow freedom of speech. Putting up offensive, basphemous imagery is apparently acceptable by their standards, but not the showing of tits or sex.

It is inconsistent of them to tout how they are supporting these freedoms, when they clearly restrict others. Censorship is an enemy of freedom of speech, but it is also an enemy of irresponsability and malicious practise.

I haven't much to say on this whole "draw Muhammed" thing except that if I knew my friend was going out of his way to antagonise and offend others, I'd lay into him. I don't care if he tries to justify it with some dubious claim about "freedom of speech", he still deserves a smack upside the head, and a lot of finger wagging afterwards.

 

[nipsen]

..mumble... out of respect for local customs.. they will restrict pages that people will have to actively seek out.. from within India (and Pakistan)..

..? :/

Don't get it.

Wonder if anyone in India will start to make fun of their Muslim population - since apparently they need to be shielded from crazies on the internet..

 

[LordWalter]

People are so quick to jump on the "freedom of speech" gimmick while completely neglecting the perspectives of anyone who might take offense from it.

So out of all of the different limitations and violations of your freedoms of speech, the only one you want to protest is this specific example? People aren't "protesting free speech", they're just doing it for the sake of doing it, childishly poking to get a reaction.

I won't go into details though, since I'll be opposed by everyone here, seeing as gaming communities are the most aggressive anti-religious zealots out there.

Funny, I wasn't aware fundamental rights and liberties were considered "gimmicks". Whether or not someone takes "offense" is completely irrelevant. I'm not going to be bullied into controlling what I say or do by a bunch of religious lunatics (sorry, redundancy). Anyone who seriously believes we should bow to the wishes of thugs like them is either a coward or a fool.

 

[Giest4life]

"We strongly believe that Facebook users have the freedom to express their opinions, and we don't typically take down content, groups or pages that speak out against countries, religions, political entities or ideas"

I kind of think it is bullshit of groups like youtube and facebook to bang on about how they will continue to allow freedom of speech. Putting up offensive, basphemous imagery is apparently acceptable by their standards, but not the showing of tits or sex.

It is inconsistent of them to tout how they are supporting these freedoms, when they clearly restrict others. Censorship is an enemy of freedom of speech, but it is also an enemy of irresponsability and malicious practise.

I haven't much to say on this whole "draw Muhammed" thing except that if I knew my friend was going out of his way to antagonise and offend others, I'd lay into him. I don't care if he tries to justify it with some dubious claim about "freedom of speech", he still deserves a smack upside the head, and a lot of finger wagging afterwards.

100% agree on the content that is selectively blocked. For what reason is sex so different from the "draw Muhammad day?" And sex doesn't even kill people, hell if anything, helps people love---literally.

We don't have freedom of speech; we have an arbitrary notion of how much "free" speech should be tolerated and to what extent be allowed to exist in our society. Society--or people rather---have hypocritical standards about what is acceptable and what isn't. Displaying tits on the school bulletin board is NOT ok, but advertising for a Bible reading session is. No matter how many Atheists, or people of the other religions get offended by it. It seems that democracy implicitly decides what is "good," "bad," "acceptable," and "tolerable." Fuck them, I say. Fuck them indeed.

 

[Notsomuch]

The problem is that Muslims are looking for things to be offended about. It's pretty obvious. They don't have to go to the page that is drawing pictures that are specifically meant to offend them. They don't have to watch the episodes of southpark that depict Muhammad. They are allowed to shut themselves out from things that offend them. They are not however. They are actively perusing these things and trying to be as loudly offended as possible that they live in a world where the fundamental freedoms of the western world allow for them to be offended. The fact that any of these things that go against their religious dogma exist seems to fill them with unimaginable rage. Open message to Muslims. People who are not muslims do not have to follow your rules out of anything other than personal choice.

It's amazing that a country such as Pakistan is a nuclear power. They might start a war. Start a nuclear war. AT THE GAY BAR GAY BAR GAYBARGAYBAR.

 

[bmart008]

Just as hypocritical when Google decided to censor the internet in China, so if someone there types in "Democracy" they find nothing. Isn't that amazing? Freedom of speech should be protected in all it's forms, the internet especially. People telling me that I can't draw Muhammed is the same as saying i can't eat meat on a friday. It's taking other people's beliefs and forcing it on others. That is wrong. Double when you threaten death over a joke. Those people who did that (Revolution Muslims out of New York) should be ashamed and brought up on charges for death threats and inciting violence.

Don't forget of course the thousands of people who protested Denmark 5 years ago when there were depictions of Muhammed printed in a news paper. With around 100 people dying and Danish embassies being set on fire. It's not just extremists it seems, the moderates stand back and let it happen. That needs to change, and that is what Everyone Draw Muhammed day was all about.

Freedom of Speech won. There were over 12000 depictions of Muhammed on Facebook, and no deaths, it seems the extremists have too many targets to hit this time.

 

[maninahat]

Because its relavent to this discussion you should probably watch this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7ok4njJXI8

The guy sounds like a condescending asshole: "(I paraphrase) The west is a glorious bastion of freedom, science and culture whilst the East is a hostile, primitive desert mob."

 

[blindthrall]

Ironic. A bunch of people say "Hell yeah! Let's all draw Mohammed to piss off those muslims fanatics (and the non-fanatics too btw) because we are all cool freedom of speech fighters who hate people that send death threats" but the second Thompson, Atkinson or Ebert tells something about videogames, people spam their mailbox and send them death threats.

Fanatics sucks, but so does the people who are being trolls because of other peoples faith or beliefs.

I would say Atkinson doesn't belong on your list. He was trying to censor games, and was in a position to carry out his wishes, not to mention the Australian internet firewall debacle. It was obvious he hated games, which is fine to do until it affects your policies. Thompson can yammer on all he wants, and I can definitely see Ebert's point.

It's amazing that a country such as Pakistan is a nuclear power. They might start a war. Start a nuclear war. AT THE GAY BAR GAY BAR GAYBARGAYBAR.

Is this a meme I missed or something?

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Here's a fun little thought.
Have a bunch of christians, jews or other religious people threaten to kill innocent muslims for something completely non-sensical, say eating meat and milk together.
See what happens.

 

[LightspeedJack]

As far as I an concerned an insulting image of Mario is far more offensive than Mohammed. This is retarded, freedom of speech ftw, stupid religions fail.

 

[randomic]

The problem is that Muslims are looking for things to be offended about. It's pretty obvious. They don't have to go to the page that is drawing pictures that are specifically meant to offend them. They don't have to watch the episodes of southpark that depict Muhammad. They are allowed to shut themselves out from things that offend them. They are not however. They are actively perusing these things and trying to be as loudly offended as possible that they live in a world where the fundamental freedoms of the western world allow for them to be offended. The fact that any of these things that go against their religious dogma exist seems to fill them with unimaginable rage. Open message to Muslims. People who are not muslims do not have to follow your rules out of anything other than personal choice.

It's amazing that a country such as Pakistan is a nuclear power. They might start a war. Start a nuclear war. AT THE GAY BAR GAY BAR GAYBARGAYBAR.

I am unsure why you limit the extent of your argument to the members of one particular faith. Of course people are not forced to look at things which they are offended by but the fact is that people like to be noticed; people like to take sides. You were not forced to read the article nor to have your say but you did anyway because you want to show your support. You can't really criticise people with opposing opinions for doing the same.
In my opinion it was irresponsible of the creators of the page to create the page. It is completely wrong for a person to send death threats to anyone (whatever the reason) and we need to stand up against people who act as though it is acceptable. However, we have to respect the fact that the majority of people who will be offended by pictorial representations of a religions figure do not send death threats. It has to be made clear what we are standing against. People shouldn't pretend that they're fighting for free speech when really what we should be doing is fighting against human beings who believe that causing harm, or threatening to cause harm, to another human being is not wrong. I hope you see the distinction I have made.

 

[maninahat]

I don't respect Islam. I don't respect any religion, really. I respect people. That said, if I feel like a religion is hokum, I'm going to say such. If you tell me I can't draw a picture, I will to spite you. If you tell me that I can't make a joke about the death of Jesus, I definitely will. *shrugs*

I find this quite ironic, considering that this -whole thing- is about respect.

From what I understand, the whole taboo on images of Muhammad is because he is to be so respected that any images would be necessarily inferior and detract from the man himself (the "extreme" part being enforcing such a view on another). On the contrary, you state that while you respect people, you do not respect their opinions and feelings - if they believe in something that you do not, you say that you will not respect that.

Just an observation. I don't mean to imply what is "good" or "bad".

The difficulty is that westerners lack an equivalent regarding the depicting of muhammed. We were not brought up with the teaching that drawing Muhammed is gravely insulting and blasphemous, so we can't fully appreciate the reaction of someone who was. Joking/drawing Jesus doesn't cut the mustard, because again, we where not brought up to regard Jesus as something we must never depict.

It isn't just about the damn cartoons anyway. The cartoons are just another insult adding to the many these guys feel they have been inflicted with. That doesn't excuse their behaviour in anyway, it just explains why they do it.

 

[maninahat]

Here's a fun little thought.
Have a bunch of christians, jews or other religious people threaten to kill innocent muslims for something completely non-sensical, say eating meat and milk together.
See what happens.

Well, you you treat it as nonesensical; that is a big part of the problem. I refer you to my previous post above.

 

[Reliq]

People telling me that I can't draw Muhammed is the same as saying i can't eat meat on a friday. It's taking other people's beliefs and forcing it on others. That is wrong. Double when you threaten death over a joke. Those people who did that (Revolution Muslims out of New York) should be ashamed and brought up on charges for death threats and inciting violence.

So, in order for them not to force their horrible beliefs on you, you force you justified beliefs on them? Thats brilliant...

Edit: Lets take it a step further! And force ALL people of different faith to become atheist just like us. That will surely solve all the worlds problems wont it? /Edit