Pakistan Bans Facebook Over "Everybody Draw Mohammed Day"

[Cliff_m85]

People are so quick to jump on the "freedom of speech" gimmick while completely neglecting the perspectives of anyone who might take offense from it.

So out of all of the different limitations and violations of your freedoms of speech, the only one you want to protest is this specific example? People aren't "protesting free speech", they're just doing it for the sake of doing it, childishly poking to get a reaction.

I won't go into details though, since I'll be opposed by everyone here, seeing as gaming communities are the most aggressive anti-religious zealots out there.

Except this isn't about being anti-religious, it's about being anti-extremist. Everybody Draw Muhammad day wasn't about trolling Muslims. Regular ole Muslims that take comfort in their religion and don't fuck with other people are cool. The assholes that, yanno, shoot and bomb the non-believers are the ones that need to be fucked with. By bending to their will, their terrorism and extremism wins. Everytime they do something, everyone else reacts badly and does whatever they want and that needs to stop. EDM is a great way to help people get over that and to learn to just start telling the extremists to go fuck themselves.

But the border between fundamental extremism and regular Islam is becoming blurry, especially to that of the youth, because of the cultural phenomenon going on in Arab countries where the youth have started to become particularly fanatic about their beliefs. If you've ever lived in an Arab country you'd know where I'm coming from, simply offending them with the purpose of "fuck you extremists" is only going to enrage them further.

Coming from a family of Muslims, I hate the fundamental extremists as just as you do. They've practically made being an Arab a living hell this century, and what they practice is far from what Islam should be. There are better ways though, because while normal Muslims aren't going to go apeshit, they're still offended by this sort of thing.

I understand the principle that you're trying to prove and we respect that, but the freedoms of a very small minority that actually want to actively draw prophet Mohammed isn't worth offending an entire culture, be it extremists or not.

You're not special. Saying "Oh how offensive" is quite childish and whiney. If I can actively offend Christians why should I wear kiddie-gloves with Muslims?

I don't respect Islam. I don't respect any religion, really. I respect people. That said, if I feel like a religion is hokum, I'm going to say such. If you tell me I can't draw a picture, I will to spite you. If you tell me that I can't make a joke about the death of Jesus, I definitely will. *shrugs*

 

[ProfessorLayton]

Look, I'm against censorship when it's completely stupid such as when censoring bad language or blood but this is their religion, people! I don't care if you believe in whatever they believe in or not, do you really have that little respect or human decency? It's blatantly blasphemous and offensive, so why do it? It's really disgusting that people would do this because they think it's funny.

 

[kaziard]

well it doesn't seem like anyone is really out of blame here, you have the 115000 facebook users being deliberate douches by deliberately insulting an entire religion over the reactions of the fundamentalists you get everywhere (in AND out of religion) and then you have the over sensitive officials in power in Pakistan ruining it for everyone in they're own country. I'm slightly surprised to say the the facebook company is the most moral out of the 3, at least it was only showing a case of simple hypocrisy.

 

[punkrocker27]

Here in the western world, and America especially, we have Freedom of Speach and Expression.

What do you mean by "America especially"? Don't we have complete freedom of speech in most countrys in the West? I've seen more shockingly offensive things on Norwegian television than I have on American television. At least I've never seen anyone burn a bible on American television. Nor have I seen an American show which is an animated show featuring celebrities - including politicians - not wearing pants (seriously, you see the animated penis of the prime minister, would Obama be on American television with an animated penis?).

See this is the same kind of outright asswholery being doled out by both parties. You're trying to argue about whose more free by comparing which country's television media has showed more obscene images just for the sake of shock value, according to what you've seen in your lifetime. And you don't even live in the US! Then you want to excuse religious extremists who use violence to get away with censoring images of their prophet from TV? Gimme a break!

BTW, I can specifically list instances where I've seen both those things you mentioned happen on television (one on South Park, ironically,) and believe me, that's almost tame compared to what else there is out there.

 

[Cliff_m85]

I really don't like people who just go out of their way to offend, but it seems to be the in thing these days; the makers of south park weren't trying to make a point they were just after viewing figures.
it annoys me as well that people are pretty hypocritical, if I went and burned the American flag on live TV half of America would want me dead is it really that different?

I mean cmon how often do you normally draw Mohamed? It would save us all a lot of fuss if these idiots live and let live. Free speech sounds great on paper but doesn't work in practice.

Obviously you didn't watch the episode in question. Nor the last, say, three seasons+ of South Park which all had quite Libertarian messages provided.

Penn and Teller burn the American Flag on stage every night in Las Vegas, they also did so on their show "Penn and Teller's Bullshit". And no, half of America wouldn't animalistically want you murdered. A few might, but our police system and government would actually protect you.

 

[pneuma08]

I'm not seeing anything to get up-in-arms about.

Okay, freedom of speech violation, but it's not in the US. Not everyone has freedom of speech, or freedom of speech with the same limitations we have. (In Pakistan it's "subject to any reasonable restrictions imposed by law in the interest of the glory of Islam..." so no hypocrisy there.) Facebook didn't take down the content, it just restricts access to it, in accordance with local laws. And I'll bet you that if Pakistan so wants they can get the same treatment India is getting (although they might not trust Facebook, but that's another matter entirely).

Other countries don't have to do things our way, just like we don't have to do things their way. No one's rights are being violated. So where's the fire?

 

[antipunt]

As a Muslim, I barely paid heed to such pages. I am not letting myself offended or gettiing myself worked up. I love my Prophet, but we live in a Western society that's based upon non-religious views most of the times. Freedom of Speech they claim, I have no quarrel with those people on FaceBook.

I rather remain a person of peace than someone fueling yet again the Extremist Muslim that are major hypocrites.

Heck yea *high five*

I'm an agnostic atheist, but I'm still heavily supportive of your statement here. Power to you and all the other moderate Muslims like yourself. Statements like your own should become more mainstream, for the sake of separating yourself from those extremist-lunatics. I know you aren't all like that; that's why the moderates need to fight back (for the sake of Muslim-image that has been concocted over the past few years)

 

[Cliff_m85]

Look, I'm against censorship when it's completely stupid such as when censoring bad language or blood but this is their religion, people! I don't care if you believe in whatever they believe in or not, do you really have that little respect or human decency? It's blatantly blasphemous and offensive, so why do it? It's really disgusting that people would do this because they think it's funny.

Religion doesn't deserve respect. It's a bronze-age faith-based showing of human nonskepticism and absolutely must be ridiculed as it deserves to be.

Why can I question a political belief but not a religious one? Atleast logic takes place in political discussions. Religious ones end with either "Well, I have faith" or "Well, you'll be going to that hot place when you die". Irrational and childish, quite frankly.

 

[Tharwen]

*Ahem*

To religion in general: LET PEOPLE DO WHAT THEY WANT OR GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY SOCIETY

I'm fine with you having your own beliefs (even if I think they're all close-minded and limiting), but please, please please please, don't fuck around with people's freedom. Let them choose what they want to know or believe.

Censorship is the one thing that this species has created that I just cannot stand.

 

[Malkavian]

People are so quick to jump on the "freedom of speech" gimmick while completely neglecting the perspectives of anyone who might take offense from it.

So out of all of the different limitations and violations of your freedoms of speech, the only one you want to protest is this specific example? People aren't "protesting free speech", they're just doing it for the sake of doing it, childishly poking to get a reaction.

I won't go into details though, since I'll be opposed by everyone here, seeing as gaming communities are the most aggressive anti-religious zealots out there.

You are not alone man. On a Danish gaming sites, I have been arguing about this for 4 days now, having to repeat myself over and over, as everyone seems to be jumping down my throat, accusing me of being anti-democratic nutjob. All I think is that we might stop poking at the muslims to, you know, get along better.

 

[Cliff_m85]

You're not special. Saying "Oh how offensive" is quite childish and whiney. If I can actively offend Christians why should I wear kiddie-gloves with Muslims?

I don't respect Islam. I don't respect any religion, really. I respect people. That said, if I feel like a religion is hokum, I'm going to say such. If you tell me I can't draw a picture, I will to spite you. If you tell me that I can't make a joke about the death of Jesus, I definitely will. *shrugs*

A rebel that doesn't play by the rules, you're hardcore man.


Seriously though, I'm not special, but people usually do so out of respect for others. I don't have the right to judge anyone for not having it, and you're entitled to your opinion I suppose.

I do play by the rules, sir. Otherwise I'd be in prison.

I respect you as a human being, perhaps for your accomplishments as well. However I won't respect a belief that suggests that women are inferior and that there is a magic sky-daddy looking over us and watching children starve to death while doing nothing while claiming he is "loving". That I can't respect. You certainly do have the right to judge anyone. It's a human right and we judge almost constantly. You judged me worthy of response, obviously.

 

[ProfessorLayton]

Religion doesn't deserve respect. It's a bronze-age faith-based showing of human nonskepticism and absolutely must be ridiculed as it deserves to be.

Why can I question a political belief but not a religious one? Atleast logic takes place in political discussions. Religious ones end with either "Well, I have faith" or "Well, you'll be going to that hot place when you die". Irrational and childish, quite frankly.

What's childish is constantly insulting things that don't matter to you. I don't go and stomp all over you for what you believe, so why would you sit on the internet and try to pick fights? Listen, there is absolutely no reason to go around trying to offend people unless you're a troll.

 

[WaderiAAA]

As for the draw Muhammad thing being a protest against Islamic extremism, I think they are missing the point. That drawing Muhammad is illegal is a part of their holy law.

Actually, they do get that, and it's the entire point of this whole operation. To protest against religious censorship and the iron ballgrip that religion has on the middle east in particular. Noble, but unfortunately most of them are just doing it because they're bored teens who went way overboard.

It's like burning a bible or peeing on the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Of course there are some out of the 1.2 billion muslims that finds that offensive enough to threaten to kill someone. I bet if someone burned a bible on television, there'd be some Christian "extremists" doing the same thing.

But does that give them any right to kill someone for it? Or threaten that the action be stopped immediately upon pain of death?

No, it doesn't give them the right to kill someone over it, but my point is that extremists are just a small part of the total group. Protesting about it is pointless, because none of the extremists are going to think "hey, I guess they are right about that." Particularly not when the protest just adds more fuel to the fire. So the whole point of the protest is really to show off a "hey, look at me, I'm standing up about religious extremism" banner.

And on protesting against religious cencorship: Who are we to say that our way is right and theirs are wrong? Drawing the prophet is such a tiny little bit of freedom of speech, and if they are banned, I don't think many people will go "hey, I'm going to miss those Muhammad drawings. They were hilarious!" They want us to respect a holy person in their religion while we want them to respect our right to take a dump on whoever we want.

 

[Halceon]

This was to be expected. The chance that zealots, and you don't get more zealous than a religiously run state, will change their ways or views after this is negligible. There's also no notable chance that moderates or progressives will be repulsed from the religion by some silly internet group acting up. What this will bring, however, is increased dissent. And dissent is what drives a nation towards freedom, order and democracy.

 

[Cliff_m85]

Religion doesn't deserve respect. It's a bronze-age faith-based showing of human nonskepticism and absolutely must be ridiculed as it deserves to be.

Why can I question a political belief but not a religious one? Atleast logic takes place in political discussions. Religious ones end with either "Well, I have faith" or "Well, you'll be going to that hot place when you die". Irrational and childish, quite frankly.

What's childish is constantly insulting things that don't matter to you. I don't go and stomp all over you for what you believe, so why would you sit on the internet and try to pick fights? Listen, there is absolutely no reason to go around trying to offend people unless you're a troll.

They do matter to me because they effect my society. If Matt and Trey didn't get such a threat, Viacom wouldn't have folded and catered to a small demographic of nutjobs. Religion effects my country. Gays can't get married, they can't adopt in some states, you have to hold a religious belief to get into office in some states, abortion is fought heavily against to deny women of the right to control their own bodies, people photograph men leaving adult stores and send the photos to the families of the men using the license plate number as a point of reference, Evolution is fought against in public schools because a small group wants religious hokum taught as if it were equal.

It absolutely matters to me, sir. Troll I may be, but I deeply hold what I wrote to be true.

 

[blindthrall]

Hmm, this is like watching a knife fight between Hitler and Stalin- can they both die? I hate both Facebook and the Pakistani government. As far as the issue itself, it was a reaction to a Muslim overreaction to South Park. South Park portrayed Mohammed before, and it was respectful, a surprising thing coming from South Park. On the other end of the spectrum, Islam has that injunction against representations of Allah or his prophet because they don't want little plastic Mohammed figurines popping up everywhere...which I can understand. But Islamic laws only apply to Muslims. What do they care what us infidels do, we're damned anyway!

It's kind of like Christians trying to regulate non-Christian behavior, and we all know how well that works.

 

[Cliff_m85]

As for the draw Muhammad thing being a protest against Islamic extremism, I think they are missing the point. That drawing Muhammad is illegal is a part of their holy law.

Actually, they do get that, and it's the entire point of this whole operation. To protest against religious censorship and the iron ballgrip that religion has on the middle east in particular. Noble, but unfortunately most of them are just doing it because they're bored teens who went way overboard.

It's like burning a bible or peeing on the Western Wall in Jerusalem. Of course there are some out of the 1.2 billion muslims that finds that offensive enough to threaten to kill someone. I bet if someone burned a bible on television, there'd be some Christian "extremists" doing the same thing.

But does that give them any right to kill someone for it? Or threaten that the action be stopped immediately upon pain of death?

No, it doesn't give them the right to kill someone over it, but my point is that extremists are just a small part of the total group. Protesting about it is pointless, because none of the extremists are going to think "hey, I guess they are right about that." Particularly not when the protest just adds more fuel to the fire. So the whole point of the protest is really to show off a "hey, look at me, I'm standing up about religious extremism" banner.

And on protesting against religious cencorship: Who are we to say that our way is right and theirs are wrong? Drawing the prophet is such a tiny little bit of freedom of speech, and if they are banned, I don't think many people will go "hey, I'm going to miss those Muhammad drawings. They were hilarious!" They want us to respect a holy person in their religion while we want them to respect our right to take a dump on whoever we want.

What happens when one person draws muhammad? They get murdered.
What happens when a hundred thousand people draw muhammad? Nothing.

 

[WaderiAAA]

Here in the western world, and America especially, we have Freedom of Speach and Expression.

What do you mean by "America especially"? Don't we have complete freedom of speech in most countrys in the West? I've seen more shockingly offensive things on Norwegian television than I have on American television. At least I've never seen anyone burn a bible on American television. Nor have I seen an American show which is an animated show featuring celebrities - including politicians - not wearing pants (seriously, you see the animated penis of the prime minister, would Obama be on American television with an animated penis?).

See this is the same kind of outright asswholery being doled out by the facebook group. You're trying to argue about whose more free by comparing which country's television media has showed more obscene images just for the sake of shock value, according to what you've seen in your lifetime. And you don't even live in the US! Then you want to excuse religious extremists who use violence to get away with censoring images of their prophet from TV? Gimme a break!

BTW, I can specifically list instances where I've seen both those things you mentioned happen on television (one on South Park, ironically,) and believe me, that's almost tame compared to what else there is out there.

A: 70 percent of what is shown on Norwegian TV is American programs, so I'm familiar with them.
B: I wasn't saying it was free-er, just that it was as free. I just found the way he said "especially America" to be a typical example of American thinking they are the best at all constitutional rights and the heart and soul of the world.
C: I appologize if you've got another impression, but I'm not trying to defend the extremist. What I'm saying is that of course those extremists exist and that the protest is pointless.