Penn Jillette Speaks Out on RapeLay

[asinann]

Hey genius...this is an INTER-ACTIVE rape game. Quite a bit different from watching something on a movie screen. Use your head.

Good job, are you also for the banning of violent games? That's the argument used to try and ban them.

I think they are pretty juvenile and asinine actually, but once you look at the sexual violence that is perpetrated on women all over the world and I mean ALL OVER, it seems hideous and sickening to think that someone would enjoy victimizing a young virgin girl that way, bloodying her, impregnating her. To think that people get their kicks out of that is just too depressing. It's a huge difference from figures shooting at each other and going to war with swords and crap like that. A huge difference. If you think that the killing done in war is murder, and that murder is wrong, then why don't you get your ass out there and protest the wars instead of holing up in your little rooms and play-acting.

No, it isn't.
Both are simulations of the worst of human behaviors.
Both are under a ton of scrutiny for realistic depictions of those behaviors.
The difference is that rape and sex crimes are demonized more in western culture than murder and violent crimes.
Killing someone isn't enough to get you the death penalty from most prosecutors, but should you rape them first (or after for that matter) it become the most heinous crime imaginable.
Ban one type of game for it depictions of something that is wrong, and you can use it as precedent to ban other things.
Murder in all situations is wrong, but you sound like a christian so I'll ignore the hypocrisy.
Rape isn't mentioned in the "ten commandments" but murder is (and I know someone is going to try and say it was mention in adultery and stealing portions, but that's really grasping at straws.)

Oh please. Not a christian, thank God for that. Fundamentalism of any kind is wacko as far as I'm concerned but I do appreciate your tact. I see your point but the Bible and the Ten Commandments were written by men, not God, by the way, and not to be taken seriously by those who do not believe in said god.
So yes, murder in all situations is wrong. So let's stop war then. Let's stop rape and war. How do you propose we do that? I'm sorry, but interactive video games can be fantastic, wonderful learning experiences, they can engage and teach and enlighten when used appropriately. Used inappropriately, which I believe this disgusting piece of crap RapeLay is, just normalizes sexual violence. And the games with murder do the same with murder. If you are picking out a victim, stalking and murdering them Personalizing it, that's one of the things that is so sick about it.

Giving the games the power to MAKE people do things and removing the responsibility for the bad decision from the offender is what blaming the games does. This is what is causing the downfall of society, nobody will take responsibility for their actions, and everyone is all for helping them to do it.

 

[kawligia]

I <3 Penn.

Jillette/Teller 2012!!!

 

[Andy Chalk]

And maybe you wouldn't. and who are you to say she's selling her life cheaply. You can speak for yourself.

I do speak for myself, and only myself. But I don't think it's unreasonable to suggest that most rape victims would rather be alive than dead.

 

[G1eet]

He's right about murder being normalized. No one even shrugs at murder scenes in movies/games.

Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.

Don't say that too loud in the presence of a hardcore feminist.

 

[G1eet]

Well actually it does say somewhere that the people should be able to overthrow the government should the gov't become tyrannical or some such thing, but the Smith Act enacted during the early years of the Cold War somewhat changed that. I personally think it's a bullshit act, though.

It's by Jefferson. "The tree of liberty must be baptized from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."

Or something to that effect.

 

[300lb. Samoan]

He's right about murder being normalized. No one even shrugs at murder scenes in movies/games.

Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.

There's a difference.

Murder is a crime directed towards an individual. Having it in books doesn't have the same effect because there is no emotional attachment to the subject usually.

That's why certain scenes (Don Corleone's Shooting in the Godfather for instance, Elias getting killed in Platoon) are disturbing because there is the emotional attachment to them.

Rape is a crime directed towards a victim. There is significantly no emotional attachment to the victim on the part of the criminal, and often no emotional attachment from voyeur (which is what you will be) to the victim.

Why is this a problem? Because we haven't received a realistic interpretation of consensual sex in the media yet. So if you can easily torrent a "How To" in non-consensual sex, what exactly do you think people will learn?

Interesting view, you've got me on the fence now... but I wonder how much this game would really teach you about raping someone. Think about the murder that occurs in most games and how far removed it is from the reality of utilizing a weapon to take a life.

 

[Ghostkai]

Difference being you don't remember it, because your dead. Vastly different to being traumatised for life. (Especially if your a 8 year old japanese girl)

Different, sure. Better? Maybe you're willing to sell your life so cheaply. I sure wouldn't be.

In fact, I'd be willing to bet that if you ever were actually raped, you'd be praying the entire time for nothing more than to survive.

A close family friend is a rape victim. I know how traumatised a rape victim can be. Thats why I find it utterly deplorable. I'm not having a stupid debate over "which is better". (the word better makes me sick, both are disgusting)

The fact that people are defending a simulation to rape people... The mind boggles. It is the equivilant of a game where you kidnap someone and torture them.

Utterly disgusting.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

Interesting view, you've got me on the fence now... but I wonder how much this game would really teach you about raping someone. Think about the murder that occurs in most games and how far removed it is from the reality of utilizing a weapon to take a life.

It's not so much what it teaches you rather than what it doesn't teach you. The guy picking up an Uzi because he's read Combat and Survival isn't going to hit anyone but is still going to do an awful lot of damage.

It's sort of tricky to give any better detail without getting disturbing, but I'm sure you can see how a 12 year old getting hold of this (and they will) will become a very dangerous person indeed.

 

[Abedeus]

I dare any of you defending rape (...why not defend worshipping Satan and killing babies?) - talk to a rape victim and try to say it's not a big deal. I double dare you, I triple dare you. If you don't get kicked between the legs or slapped, you will get such a hate-filled stare that will make you instantly regret your words.

 

[300lb. Samoan]

Interesting view, you've got me on the fence now... but I wonder how much this game would really teach you about raping someone. Think about the murder that occurs in most games and how far removed it is from the reality of utilizing a weapon to take a life.

It's not so much what it teaches you rather than what it doesn't teach you. The guy picking up an Uzi because he's read Combat and Survival isn't going to hit anyone but is still going to do an awful lot of damage.

It's sort of tricky to give any better detail without getting disturbing, but I'm sure you can see how a 12 year old getting hold of this (and they will) will become a very dangerous person indeed.

True... same thing can be said of a 12yo playing through Manhunt, but not so much about Counterstrike
I guess it would depend on the manner of the game, would it be a Robotron style "box them in and press X until they surrender" or a gruesome ultra-realistic "step one drug her drink, step two make her feel secure, step three..."

Wow, it really is creepy and nasty either way, isn't it?
Dammit I don't know how I feel about this anymore!

EDIT: your comment just sank in a little deeper... i see what you mean about what it doesn't teach - proper restraint. neither of my depraved examples address that

 

[Threesan]

On rape v murder.
A few contrived situations: If you had to choose one from each group...

M) Being yourself murdered
R) Being yourself raped

M) Loved one X being murdered
R) Loved one X being raped

M) Average Jane/Joe being murdered
R) Average Jane/Joe being raped

I must answer RRR, with a (personal) definitiveness of "Nonnegotiable". No amount of wailing & flailing or strutting & posturing would convince me that M & R are even on the same level. Heck, you might even be able to squeeze torture in between M & R, dropping R into third.

 

[brabz]

I dare any of you defending rape (...why not defend worshipping Satan and killing babies?) - talk to a rape victim and try to say it's not a big deal. I double dare you, I triple dare you. If you don't get kicked between the legs or slapped, you will get such a hate-filled stare that will make you instantly regret your words.

I don't think there are scores of people defending the act or saying it's not a big deal, just opposing censorship not because of the subject matter, but more because of the slippery slope censorship rolls down.

I could say the same thing about a person who has a 9/11 conspiracy theory talking to my friend's widowed mother about it. People will believe and think what they want to; and shouldn't fear repercussions of physical violence or intimidation for having an unpopular idea.

 

[Sledgimus]

It's sort of tricky to give any better detail without getting disturbing, but I'm sure you can see how a 12 year old getting hold of this (and they will) will become a very dangerous person indeed.

No, I can't see that. I've been digitally murdering people since I was about 8 years old and I've yet to kill anyone in the real world. I've yet to see someone explain how murder in videogames is fine, but rape will push us all over the edge into slavering, unstoppable rape machines.

 

[StarStruckStrumpets]

Hey genius...this is an INTER-ACTIVE rape game. Quite a bit different from watching something on a movie screen. Use your head.

Good job, are you also for the banning of violent games? That's the argument used to try and ban them.

And so it should be banned!

 

[300lb. Samoan]

Relevant to our interests (par discussion), obtained from parallel internets:
GamePolitics: Stockholm Interactive DVD [http://www.gamepolitics.com/2009/05/29/feminists-outraged-interactive-dvd-available-amazon]
The nature of this game sounds pretty sadistic, and I myself do count it as a "game" (an interactive experience). Which do you think is worse?

 

[randommaster]

Long rant at sisterblues

This seems like something done out of annoyance. Made me laugh.

I'd give my own opinions about this, but then I'd probably have to read an angry respose paragraph from sisterblues about how I'm an idiot who has no idea what I'm talking about.

Censoring Rapelay and similar really was a knee-jerk reaction becaue the issue had never come up before. The only reason this game got attention was because a bunch of soccer moms heard about this and assumed that Japan had an army of pedophiles just waiting for the next flight to the U.S. to come and rape their children. If there had been any mention of this movement BEFORE the game accidentally got exposed to the U.S. market, then I would be so bothered by it. BUt the fact that this banning only happened after a short burst of moral outrage is just forcing one country's views on another.

As for the murder vs. rape issue, you really need to be able to put yourself in a different mindset before raising a fuss. Consider what would happen if the U.S's views on rape and murder were reversed. Rape would be shown all the time and everybody would be used to it, but depictions of murder were extremely taboo and caused mass outrage whenever it appeared. Even if rape is worse than murder, objectively, does that mean that we should accept murder because it is the lesser of two evils? If you think so, then what about tourture? Torturing someone is argueably not as bad as killing someone, so if you chose to dipict someone getting killed, couldn't you have shown them getting tortured instead to show a lesser crime? This goes on and on untill you get to content that nobody finds objectionable, which is where mainstream media seems to be at the moment. People are not allowed to publish works about certain subject because it will raise too much of a fuss.

If you think about anything you consider bad, ask yourself why it is "wrong". When you get down to it, most crimes have to do with someone interfering with your life in some way. Personally, I don't believe that being sentient gives us any responsability or right to look over anything. You are free to dick up the universe to your heart's content. Other people, however, may object to this and force you to stop. They are not obligated to stop you, but they need to if they want their own lives to continue the way they want them to. Saying something is wrong because it just is isn't an arguement, it's vocalizing the beliefs that society has cultivatied in you. Slavery used to be perfectly normal, but now it's considered one of the worst things you can do. People say we have evolved beyond the primitive societies that would wholy deprive someone of their freedom, but we haven't. We've just gotten machines to do the work, which frees up people to complain. I'm absolutely sure that when everything goes to hell in the near future because people have crapped all over everything, that society's views on what is immoral will change again, and nobody will really notice because they will be too busy trying to survive.

 

[Nigh Invulnerable]

Agreed.

Murder is a worse crime than rape, after all.

Tell that to a rape victim.

Being murdered doesn't leave you horrifically traumatised.[/quote]

Uh, I think having your life entirely snuffed out is far more traumatic than an assault and rape. Of course, we don't really know what happens after someone dies, but I think it causes a lot more harm to a larger number of people than a rape does. Maybe that's just me.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

It's sort of tricky to give any better detail without getting disturbing, but I'm sure you can see how a 12 year old getting hold of this (and they will) will become a very dangerous person indeed.

No, I can't see that. I've been digitally murdering people since I was about 8 years old and I've yet to kill anyone in the real world. I've yet to see someone explain how murder in videogames is fine, but rape will push us all over the edge into slavering, unstoppable rape machines.

Emotional link, as I explained earlier. That's why there's a charge of lesser murder or manslaughter.
"Murder simulators" are just "press the button", Rape simulators deliberately delineate the voyeur/criminal to heighten the experience. I.E. Your character kills, but it's you who rape.

 

[Captain Pancake]

How can you compare rape and murder? how can you say that rape is a worse crime? If someone is raped, they still have their life. They may even, one day, recover. But murder is definite. there is no second chance with murder! there should be no question in your minds as to what crime is worse. Look at solid facts. in our differing societies, the sentence for murder can be from ten years to a life time. for rape, it will be similar, but usually less.

And, although sisterblues obviously feels very strongly about this topic, i find her arguments to be frankly naive at times. You say that sexual assaults are the worst crimes in human history? have you forgotten the holocaust? 6 million people killed, and you still think that's second rate? I don't agree with the idea of a rape game, but sisterblues, you have to get your priorities straight.