Penn Jillette Speaks Out on RapeLay

[A random person]

To sisterblues-The people who play these games may be rather twisted or just bizarrely curious, but they should be allowed to PLAY them. Just because you play something doesn't mean you will do it. If that was true, I would have shot and killed a bunch of people by now. And while rape is a horrible, horrible thing, murder is even worse. Why? Because if you're raped, you're at least still alive. Not so much for murder.

And I have to say this: The problem isn't people who are perverts in private and like that, contrary to what you're saying about them being sick and wrong. There is actually nothing wrong with that if you don't act on it, I'd just personally consider it sick and wrong.

 

[Iron Mal]

I find it somewhat strange that we view our sexual security and confidence as being more precious or sacred than our mortality.

Nowadays we've become so caught up in being politically correct and accomidating of others that we've almost become 'soft' and subjective. The second that anything is percieved as potentially offensive (or might upset someone who's been through a particular experience) we have what a friend of mine once called a 'social allergic reaction' (where people in society start a moral panic over things that others either find acceptable or are indifferent towards).

I sympathise for women who have been raped (it is a horrible thing to go through) but I think it is more than likely that the game in question (RapeLay) does not include said women in it's target audience, it's like when someone finds a TV show or an advert offensive, we should ask them 'did you think of changing the channel? or better yet, turning the TV off?'.

No-one is being forced to play this game, it's not as if women who were previously raped were led into a dark room against their will, injected with a paralysing venom and shown this game.

If you want to play this game, then great for you, leave the rest of us alone and play in private, if you don't want to play this game, then don't, the option to ignore it is always there.

 

[sisterblues]

nicely done. Sadly, wrong again. It does normalize sexual violence, look it up son.....and go ahead and make jokes about what is being done to women, girls, baby girls in DRC. Try mutilation, horribly mutilated, in shreds. Try filling their vaginas up with oil and then setting you on fire. getting the picture yet little boy? There is NOTHING about rape that belongs in a game.

 

[sisterblues]

Hey genius...this is an INTER-ACTIVE rape game. Quite a bit different from watching something on a movie screen. Use your head.

Good job, are you also for the banning of violent games? That's the argument used to try and ban them.

I think they are pretty juvenile and asinine actually, but once you look at the sexual violence that is perpetrated on women all over the world and I mean ALL OVER, it seems hideous and sickening to think that someone would enjoy victimizing a young virgin girl that way, bloodying her, impregnating her. To think that people get their kicks out of that is just too depressing. It's a huge difference from figures shooting at each other and going to war with swords and crap like that. A huge difference. If you think that the killing done in war is murder, and that murder is wrong, then why don't you get your ass out there and protest the wars instead of holing up in your little rooms and play-acting.

No, it isn't.
Both are simulations of the worst of human behaviors.
Both are under a ton of scrutiny for realistic depictions of those behaviors.
The difference is that rape and sex crimes are demonized more in western culture than murder and violent crimes.
Killing someone isn't enough to get you the death penalty from most prosecutors, but should you rape them first (or after for that matter) it become the most heinous crime imaginable.
Ban one type of game for it depictions of something that is wrong, and you can use it as precedent to ban other things.
Murder in all situations is wrong, but you sound like a christian so I'll ignore the hypocrisy.
Rape isn't mentioned in the "ten commandments" but murder is (and I know someone is going to try and say it was mention in adultery and stealing portions, but that's really grasping at straws.)

Oh please. Not a christian, thank God for that. Fundamentalism of any kind is wacko as far as I'm concerned but I do appreciate your tact. I see your point but the Bible and the Ten Commandments were written by men, not God, by the way, and not to be taken seriously by those who do not believe in said god.
So yes, murder in all situations is wrong. So let's stop war then. Let's stop rape and war. How do you propose we do that? I'm sorry, but interactive video games can be fantastic, wonderful learning experiences, they can engage and teach and enlighten when used appropriately. Used inappropriately, which I believe this disgusting piece of crap RapeLay is, just normalizes sexual violence. And the games with murder do the same with murder. If you are picking out a victim, stalking and murdering them Personalizing it, that's one of the things that is so sick about it.

Giving the games the power to MAKE people do things and removing the responsibility for the bad decision from the offender is what blaming the games does. This is what is causing the downfall of society, nobody will take responsibility for their actions, and everyone is all for helping them to do it.

It isn't about giving games the power to MAKE people do things nor is it removing the responsibility for their actions....it is about NORMALIZING sexual violence, the offender feels more comfortable, and the non-offender either gets a thrill or vomits.

 

[Cpt_Oblivious]

He makes a good point.

 

[randommaster]

No-one is being forced to play this game, it's not as if women who were previously raped were led into a dark room against their will, injected with a paralysing venom and shown this game.

Can we do this to sisterblues? It would put her forum crusade on hold for a little while.

 

[asinann]

Hey genius...this is an INTER-ACTIVE rape game. Quite a bit different from watching something on a movie screen. Use your head.

Good job, are you also for the banning of violent games? That's the argument used to try and ban them.

I think they are pretty juvenile and asinine actually, but once you look at the sexual violence that is perpetrated on women all over the world and I mean ALL OVER, it seems hideous and sickening to think that someone would enjoy victimizing a young virgin girl that way, bloodying her, impregnating her. To think that people get their kicks out of that is just too depressing. It's a huge difference from figures shooting at each other and going to war with swords and crap like that. A huge difference. If you think that the killing done in war is murder, and that murder is wrong, then why don't you get your ass out there and protest the wars instead of holing up in your little rooms and play-acting.

No, it isn't.
Both are simulations of the worst of human behaviors.
Both are under a ton of scrutiny for realistic depictions of those behaviors.
The difference is that rape and sex crimes are demonized more in western culture than murder and violent crimes.
Killing someone isn't enough to get you the death penalty from most prosecutors, but should you rape them first (or after for that matter) it become the most heinous crime imaginable.
Ban one type of game for it depictions of something that is wrong, and you can use it as precedent to ban other things.
Murder in all situations is wrong, but you sound like a christian so I'll ignore the hypocrisy.
Rape isn't mentioned in the "ten commandments" but murder is (and I know someone is going to try and say it was mention in adultery and stealing portions, but that's really grasping at straws.)

Oh please. Not a christian, thank God for that. Fundamentalism of any kind is wacko as far as I'm concerned but I do appreciate your tact. I see your point but the Bible and the Ten Commandments were written by men, not God, by the way, and not to be taken seriously by those who do not believe in said god.
So yes, murder in all situations is wrong. So let's stop war then. Let's stop rape and war. How do you propose we do that? I'm sorry, but interactive video games can be fantastic, wonderful learning experiences, they can engage and teach and enlighten when used appropriately. Used inappropriately, which I believe this disgusting piece of crap RapeLay is, just normalizes sexual violence. And the games with murder do the same with murder. If you are picking out a victim, stalking and murdering them Personalizing it, that's one of the things that is so sick about it.

Giving the games the power to MAKE people do things and removing the responsibility for the bad decision from the offender is what blaming the games does. This is what is causing the downfall of society, nobody will take responsibility for their actions, and everyone is all for helping them to do it.

It isn't about giving games the power to MAKE people do things nor is it removing the responsibility for their actions....it is about NORMALIZING sexual violence, the offender feels more comfortable, and the non-offender either gets a thrill or vomits.

Normalization is an excuse being used to help in the crusade to ban games, violent or otherwise. Give them one victory, and it will be used on ALL forms of media. It will start with games, then move on to movies and music.
We are not the thought police and the western world has no business enforcing their morals and opinions on the rest of the world.

 

[sisterblues]

How can you compare rape and murder? how can you say that rape is a worse crime? If someone is raped, they still have their life. They may even, one day, recover. But murder is definite. there is no second chance with murder! there should be no question in your minds as to what crime is worse. Look at solid facts. in our differing societies, the sentence for murder can be from ten years to a life time. for rape, it will be similar, but usually less.

And, although sisterblues obviously feels very strongly about this topic, i find her arguments to be frankly naive at times. You say that sexual assaults are the worst crimes in human history? have you forgotten the holocaust? 6 million people killed, and you still think that's second rate? I don't agree with the idea of a rape game, but sisterblues, you have to get your priorities straight.

Thank you for being civil but that is not what I said. I said sexual violence is the worst humankind has come up with to do to one another. The holocaust is also the worst, so is the sexual violence in DRC, what happened in Rwanda, rape camps in Bosnia. I think they are all pretty awful and not really in a contest for what is the worst. The scale of the holocaust - now that's something else.

 

[randommaster]

nicely done. Sadly, wrong again. It does normalize sexual violence, look it up son.....and go ahead and make jokes about what is being done to women, girls, baby girls in DRC. Try mutilation, horribly mutilated, in shreds. Try filling their vaginas up with oil and then setting you on fire. getting the picture yet little boy? There is NOTHING about rape that belongs in a game.

Does this mean that we should never depict or talk about rape in any way as long as it is happening?

 

[sisterblues]

No-one is being forced to play this game, it's not as if women who were previously raped were led into a dark room against their will, injected with a paralysing venom and shown this game.

Can we do this to sisterblues? It would put her forum crusade on hold for a little while.

Well, it didn't take long to see this place is like pretty much the rest of them. A few clearly civilized individuals with a bit of empathy and brains, and a few with brains but no empathy and quite a lot without either. Well tata.....enjoy your virtual raping and killing.

 

[sisterblues]

nicely done. Sadly, wrong again. It does normalize sexual violence, look it up son.....and go ahead and make jokes about what is being done to women, girls, baby girls in DRC. Try mutilation, horribly mutilated, in shreds. Try filling their vaginas up with oil and then setting you on fire. getting the picture yet little boy? There is NOTHING about rape that belongs in a game.

Does this mean that we should never depict or talk about rape in any way as long as it is happening?

Just one more thing, what are you talking about??? Talk about strawman.....that's the biggest one today.

 

[randommaster]

Hey everyone, if you haven't read this already, Japan has trolled a crapload of outraged soccermoms.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/92036-Rape-Games-Not-Banned-in-Japan-After-All

 

[bjj hero]

I find this "game" sickening. I am not comfortable playing it because of something called empathy.

On the flip side Ive eviscerated men with chainsaws (GOW), Burned people to death (Cod WaW), and tortured people on the punisher. None of this is acceptable in society. When you start banning things, where do you draw the line? My line is where someone is hurt to create the media eg: snuff videos, child porn.

Rapists do it to control women. It has very little to do with sex, its about power. thats why castration isn't the cure all people think it is. You can penetrate with far more than a penis. A rapist will find other ways to get his kicks if you ban this. It would have been much better if the media had let it die in obscurity.

 

[asinann]

How can you compare rape and murder? how can you say that rape is a worse crime? If someone is raped, they still have their life. They may even, one day, recover. But murder is definite. there is no second chance with murder! there should be no question in your minds as to what crime is worse. Look at solid facts. in our differing societies, the sentence for murder can be from ten years to a life time. for rape, it will be similar, but usually less.

And, although sisterblues obviously feels very strongly about this topic, i find her arguments to be frankly naive at times. You say that sexual assaults are the worst crimes in human history? have you forgotten the holocaust? 6 million people killed, and you still think that's second rate? I don't agree with the idea of a rape game, but sisterblues, you have to get your priorities straight.

Thank you for being civil but that is not what I said. I said sexual violence is the worst humankind has come up with to do to one another. The holocaust is also the worst, so is the sexual violence in DRC, what happened in Rwanda, rape camps in Bosnia. I think they are all pretty awful and not really in a contest for what is the worst. The scale of the holocaust - now that's something else.

As much as you might THINK that sexual violence is the most horrible thing we can come up with, I can come up with a few things that are not sexual violence or outright murder that would make you wish you had been raped instead of having these things done to you. Rape is deplorable, but it's reality and since (I'm just guessing here since you are so violently against the game) you aren't Japanese and this game is intended ONLY for the Japanese market you really should keep your nose out of it. There are worse crimes against women in the world than a video game. Like the way they are treated in the middle east, or like you said, in Darfur.
We need to focus efforts on areas that cause ACTUAL harm and not PERCEIVED harm.

I find this "game" sickening. I am not comfortable playing it because of something called empathy.

On the flip side Ive eviscerated men with chainsaws (GOW), Burned people to death (Cod WaW), and tortured people on the punisher. None of this is acceptable in society. When you start banning things, where do you draw the line? My line is where someone is hurt to create the media eg: snuff videos, child porn.

Rapists do it to control women. It has very little to do with sex, its about power. thats why castration isn't the cure all people think it is. You can penetrate with far more than a penis. A rapist will find other ways to get his kicks if you ban this. It would have been much better if the media had let it die in obscurity.

What, and confront the economy?

 

[randommaster]

nicely done. Sadly, wrong again. It does normalize sexual violence, look it up son.....and go ahead and make jokes about what is being done to women, girls, baby girls in DRC. Try mutilation, horribly mutilated, in shreds. Try filling their vaginas up with oil and then setting you on fire. getting the picture yet little boy? There is NOTHING about rape that belongs in a game.

Does this mean that we should never depict or talk about rape in any way as long as it is happening?

Just one more thing, what are you talking about??? Talk about strawman.....that's the biggest one today.

How so? That seems to be what you're after. You are going after anyone who disagrees with you, condeming them for not having sympathy for women in rape camps because they don't want this game to be banned.

No-one is being forced to play this game, it's not as if women who were previously raped were led into a dark room against their will, injected with a paralysing venom and shown this game.

Can we do this to sisterblues? It would put her forum crusade on hold for a little while.

Well, it didn't take long to see this place is like pretty much the rest of them. A few clearly civilized individuals with a bit of empathy and brains, and a few with brains but no empathy and quite a lot without either. Well tata.....enjoy your virtual raping and killing.

It would put you on hold for a little while, though.

 

[electric_warrior]

he does make a good point in all honesty; its strange how you can murder a woman in a game but not rape one. but ultimately i think the sexual element, with the torture element and the violence make it more unpalatable than murder.

 

[Pendragon9]

This man actually really makes a good point. As he usually does.

 

[bjj hero]

I find this "game" sickening. I am not comfortable playing it because of something called empathy.

On the flip side Ive eviscerated men with chainsaws (GOW), Burned people to death (Cod WaW), and tortured people on the punisher. None of this is acceptable in society. When you start banning things, where do you draw the line? My line is where someone is hurt to create the media eg: snuff videos, child porn.

Rapists do it to control women. It has very little to do with sex, its about power. thats why castration isn't the cure all people think it is. You can penetrate with far more than a penis. A rapist will find other ways to get his kicks if you ban this. It would have been much better if the media had let it die in obscurity.

What, and confront the economy?

Excuse my ignorance, Im tired tonight. Could you please explain?