Penn Jillette Speaks Out on RapeLay

[lacktheknack]

"What blaming the video game does is it shows compassion for the rapist. It shows understanding. At some level, in some small amount, it says, 'It's not really the rapist's fault; it's society's fault for putting this stuff out here'."

Bullshit. That's not what they're talking about, they're not saying "oh, someone raped someone, and this game made them do it". They're banning the game to stop audiences from seeing it in the first place. It ELIMINATES the "excuse". These are two different things entirely.

 

[nikosuave]

The Penn is wise.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

"What blaming the video game does is it shows compassion for the rapist. It shows understanding. At some level, in some small amount, it says, 'It's not really the rapist's fault; it's society's fault for putting this stuff out here'."

Bullshit. That's not what they're talking about, they're not saying "oh, someone raped someone, and this game made them do it". They're banning the game to stop audiences from seeing it in the first place. It ELIMINATES the "excuse". These are two different things entirely.

...Which implies that there IS an excuse that must be eliminated. See how it works? When people ban violent games it sends a message to the thickies of the world that the game has some sort of influence on real-world behavior, otherwise why would a piece of virtual entertainment be banned? If a game about virtual, non-real, FAKE rape is banned, it sends a similar message that the game at least MAY influence the behaviors of real people, which is absolutely NOT born out by the evidence (Japan has a very low rape rate compared to the US and Australia.)

Besides, banning something isn't an effective way of keeping people from seeing it. If anything, this (now proven to be fake) ban will cause MORE people to seek the Rapelay out and play it. Game bans also, in many cases, encourage piracy. I doubt that's gonna affect this game much, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

 

[lacktheknack]

"What blaming the video game does is it shows compassion for the rapist. It shows understanding. At some level, in some small amount, it says, 'It's not really the rapist's fault; it's society's fault for putting this stuff out here'."

Bullshit. That's not what they're talking about, they're not saying "oh, someone raped someone, and this game made them do it". They're banning the game to stop audiences from seeing it in the first place. It ELIMINATES the "excuse". These are two different things entirely.

...Which implies that there IS an excuse that must be eliminated. See how it works? When people ban violent games it sends a message to the thickies of the world that the game has some sort of influence on real-world behavior, otherwise why would a piece of virtual entertainment be banned? If a game about virtual, non-real, FAKE rape is banned, it sends a similar message that the game at least MAY influence the behaviors of real people, which is absolutely NOT born out by the evidence (Japan has a very low rape rate compared to the US and Australia.)

Besides, banning something isn't an effective way of keeping people from seeing it. If anything, this (now proven to be fake) ban will cause MORE people to seek the Rapelay out and play it. Game bans also, in many cases, encourage piracy. I doubt that's gonna affect this game much, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

You see, I don't think that people's brains are that complex. Your second paragraph has merit, though.

 

[runtheplacered]

Sexual violence of any kind is the worst act humankind has come up with to date.

You can't be serious. That's just obnoxious. Look, you obviously have some personal reason to say the things you're saying, but they're just not true. That sentence you came up with that I quoted just belittled several millennia of atrocious acts on humankind. I can't even begin to figure out how you could believe that.

 

[The_root_of_all_evil]

I'm sorry, I still don't really see what you're getting at. Rape simulators are just "press the button," I don't see how there's a closer connection between player and character in RapeLay than there is in a first person shooter.

Try playing one of the Japanese "dating" sims. Look at all the details you go into.
Now play a Western "murder" game. Look how casually you can murder someone.

Now imagine a game solely based on the planning of a murder, stalking someone and getting your jollies off as they die at which point they thank you.

If you can't understand why that's a bad thing, then I don't know how else to explain it.

 

[traceur_]

I agree with everything Khell_Sennet has said.

This game isn't hurting anyone, we can't tell the japanese what to do and nor should we be able to, it's their country. Sisterblues has posted many trolling attempts and has given us an insight into the arguments for banning this game, which are retarded, it's just a game, get over it.

 

[Jumplion]

...Which implies that there IS an excuse that must be eliminated. See how it works? When people ban violent games it sends a message to the thickies of the world that the game has some sort of influence on real-world behavior, otherwise why would a piece of virtual entertainment be banned? If a game about virtual, non-real, FAKE rape is banned, it sends a similar message that the game at least MAY influence the behaviors of real people, which is absolutely NOT born out by the evidence (Japan has a very low rape rate compared to the US and Australia.)

Besides, banning something isn't an effective way of keeping people from seeing it. If anything, this (now proven to be fake) ban will cause MORE people to seek the Rapelay out and play it. Game bans also, in many cases, encourage piracy. I doubt that's gonna affect this game much, but I figured it was worth mentioning.

Honestly, I think Penn's opinion here is a little convoluted a weak. It took me a little bit to fully understand what he was saying, and even then I was like "Um....okay?".

He's saying on a very minuscule level, that somehow banning the game compliments the rapist, and while that may be true on some level, I don't think it's quite enough to really form a coherent argument from Penn. He's going on about "on some level it's showing compassion for the rapist!" but I don't think it's enough to warrant the argument and he's giving human brains too much credit to decipher hidden messages

Besides, if a person raped someone because of this game, he/she was already on the verge of it anyway and was a little cuckoo to the head.

I say that before we come anywhere close to portraying rape in games, we have to make it so that two people regularly fucking each other is accepted as much as teen sex is in a drama. Use sex as a plot device and as characterization for two characters love or something, I dunno. Then we can use rape as a plot device.

As I said before, I find this game sickening that someone could get his junk off of raping someone. But it's a fetish just as much as I'm sure killing someone is a fetish. As long as this game stays in the bowels of the internet and doesn't get publicity then I don't have a problem with it being sold.

But your second paragraph, I agree, just like parents hiding playboys from their children, restricting something only makes it more tantalizing to achieve.

 

[Fanboy]

I would feel better with this stuff banned rather than not. I don't buy the slippery slope argument that if they ban this game they will have grounds to ban any game with violence. There is a huge difference between the type of violence being shown in a Rape simulator compared to games like GTA.

As for Murder being worse than Rape, I would strongly disagree. Murder doesn't discriminate against the opposite sex. Sure, men can be raped, but it is not nearly as common, and a game like RapeLay only shows it from one side. Yes I know, it's a bizarre argument to say murder is less offensive because it does not discriminate against women, but it's true. Not saying murder never discriminates, since there are games out there such as 'Ethnic Cleansing' where you are a white-supremacist who kills anything non-white, but Rape is almost always discriminative, and in the case of RapeLay it definitely is.

I have to agree with the "normalizing rape" argument Penn used, but I wouldn't say it is enough of a reason to not ban this game. I will also agree that this game will not turn normal people into Rapists, but I still find the game just as offensive as games like 'Ethnic Cleansing', and I would feel more comfortable knowing people don't put up with garbage like it. I don't see any good that can come from having this game on the market, it's just angering a lot of people and pleasuring a bunch of sickos. I think we were better off before this game was made, and we'll be better off without it again.

If the banning of this rape game has any negative effect on normal titles, I'll eat my hat.

 

[okama]

... well... having gone through this entire thread, having read some well thought out arguments, and some rather hilarious attempts at trolling, I figured I'd might as well throw myself into the fray.

Obviously, rape is bad. I don't want it to happen to me, or any of my friends (male or female). The idea of people actually playing this game to get their kicks frankly makes me a little ill.
However, I agree with the argument that there's no real point in trying to censor these games. While I don't like the idea of people actually enjoying the games, I can understand someone playing it just because they're curious (you never know if you never try). They've also been around for a while - it's only been the last week or so that everyone's gone into a knot over it. I don't know the details, since my Japanese isn't good enough to pick up what the news story was saying, but there was a rather cross looking Englishwoman.

One point that's been made a few times is the actual subject of 'sex' in society. In western society, while sexuality is thrown about like it's on fire, it's usually only eluded to. When actual sexs acts are portrayed, I tend to find it a bit off-putting (like that sex scene in Watchmen). But not all societies are the same. Japanese society - while rather closed up and unwilling to speak out - don't find sex that much of a big deal. In my nearest 7/11, the porno magazines (usually manga-style, too) are right next to the ATM, and most of them aren't covered up (like they would be in Australia, and America I assume). You can buy hentai manga at any book store (though it usually has a curtain sectioning it off from the rest, with a 18+ sign on it). Sex - hetero/homo, sweet, kinky, violent, even of the dubious-consent/non-consent kind - is a easy-to-access comodity here, and yet I don't fear for my virtue everytime I walk down the street.

I don't really want to touch the murder vs rape issue, but I've played some games where the method of killing is rather realistic. Sneaking up on them, using cheese-wire (the proper name escapes me right now) around their throat, bludgeoning them with the nearest object, find a high sheltered spot and use a silencer, etc. Doesn't mean I've ever felt the urge to stalk someone down a dark hallway, let alone use a gun and scream "BOOM, HEADSHOT!". (Also, someone said something about necrophilia... imagine if there was an option in a zombie game to actually do that. what would the reaction be? What if it was the corpse of a man, or a child? If it was actually still 'alive'?)


... I've realised I've made these points, but I have no real summary. Huh. I blame the fact that it's around 2AM over here.
But yes. So - I find no real reason why the games should actually be censored. Hell, if they actually were, I'd probably be more interested in having a look myself, JUST because I've been denied the chance to have them. It's a reaction I'm sure a lot of people would have.

and now, I go crash (="=

 

[Jumplion]

Oh, you know what this just reminds me of? The Rapeman [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Rapeman]. Japan, Japan. Oh silly Japan.

 

[Sigenrecht]

You know, games "like" RapeLay make up 20% of the country's video gaming industry, according to the last statistic I read, AND the people who regulate these kinds of games didn't need an issue tissue until it accidentally ended up on Amazon. Then, every group of organized howlers (the kind that show up at your house and condemn you to purgatory for closing the door, and are probably responsible for the irritability of politicians), from Maine to Hawaii, was screaming bloody murder, and I assume to prevent their offices from being set on fire by a mob of angry Americans, they probably just filed towards the back of the controversy train and went along with it.

 

[Frank_Sinatra_]

*walks to other side*
Penn Jillette just changed my views on this topic I shall stand with his argument now.

 

[ADDLibrarian]

The Penn is wise.

Yes. Yes he is.

As a woman, I tend to side with his female friend that he mentioned. I'd much rather men act out their fantasies in a video game or in animated (key word here ANIMATED, not live action) lolita hentai than in real life. I think more games/sims like this would discourage actual rape because then they could take their perverse fantasies to a form of media where it is appropriate rather than the streets and real life. Now, I wish that they would take those perverse fantasies to a psychologist first, but whatever.
Rape is bad. Murder is bad. We're not arguing those things. But censorship is bad too.

Information is the most important tool against rape and murder that we have. Knowledge of it's devastating effects, raising children with proper morals to show that this behavior is not acceptable, giving them the information to discern fantasy from reality, information on healthy and unhealthy sexual development, information about how the mind works and what mental disorders may lead to such behaviors and the psychological/medical treatment to try and cure it. Censorship kills information.

I think that's everything I've wanted to say without repeating what others have written.

Penn and Teller. I loves them.

 

[Arkhangelsk]

I would agree with Penn in a purely moral view, but I don't think that this thing can be trusted within some minds of certain people. Not to say in the same manner as people saying that games like GTA causes people to kill, it's to say that this game puts the person in the mind of the rapist, but it really depends on who gets their hand on this game. If this kind of game would be released, I say that it should strictly be 18 rated, cause if a 12-year old got this game, it could lead to terrible consequences. When you're in that age, you're not 100% evolved in the moral and ethics thing. You need time to before playing the game, have an understanding of what rape is, and know how horrible and wrong it is, and have good judgement. If you're 18, you know about it, you understand how bad it is, and you will know that games are only a simulation that should never be imitated. For younger, they can somehow come around to think that they can do this, and blame the game for it themselves. So, this game should have a strict 18-year rating, no excuses. That's how I feel. This game should also discourage rape by showing it in some way how bad it is. Like how I saw it in COD4, that even though you're killing people, they put in the message of how horrible, scary and wrong war is, rather than showing that war is fun and making people happy over performing genocide. Not to say it should still be entertaining in a game to kill, just that you should show the real horror and what would happen in real life.

 

[The Great JT]

I'm with Mr. Jillette, the worst thing about this game is all the people bitching about it, saying it's going to normalize sexual violence. Sexual violence is a horrible thing, I'm glad we all agree on that. However, damning a video game by saying it promotes sexual violence is like saying playing a video game where murder is one of the main prospects of a game will make you yourself a murderer. I can recall playing bloodbath games like Grand Theft Auto, Saints Row and Gears of War, and I haven't commited a violent murder. I've also seen a little bit of pornography depicting animated women being raped, I haven't thought about raping someone. I'm sorry, but saying rape games will make you a rapist is not only false, but unfounded speculation.